Saints Vs Villa - Match Thread

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Linos are told to only flag only if they’re sure it’s offside, otherwise leave it down. He’d be in the shite if he’d wrongly flagged, don’t get me wrong, he got lucky, but it’s far far more likely that he was sure it was off, rather than the other way round. 

There's no way the human eye could have judged that as a certain offside, so he was wrong to flag it as such.  There's no way he could have been *sure* it was offside. He was on an ego trip, pure and simple. (IMO)

Anyway, you appear to be skirting over the overriding issue which is that the VAR used the incorrect snapshot..

 

 

17 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by trousers

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

You seem to be confusing us with the officials. We won that match 3-1. Not just the penalty and offside, also Romeu didn't foul their GK when he dropped it and it ended up in the net.

Do you think we were good then? Honestly? No energy, never looked like scoring in first half, despite huge possession advantage. Sure, one or both decisions could, maybe should have gone out way and maybe we would have got 3 points, but it would have been papering over the cracks. We were very poor, really missed KWP especially. Our passing was all over the place. We didn't press. Blame Mason and VAR all you want but we were rubbish, again. On top of that 3 new injuries. 

[qwertyell]

21 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Adams is not a PL striker, he’s too one footed, great heart, works hard but not quite there which is a shame.

VAR bullshit aside, we still should've won 2-1, but our two best chances fell to Adams whose lack of quality cost us again.

The first chance, sent through by Ings, any half decent striker slots it in with his left foot. But Adams tried to flick it awkwardly with the outside of his right and gave the keeper an easier save than he should've faced.

The second chance, he mistimes and scuffs a close range volley after Martinez had palmed out a corner. If he strikes it cleanly, it's in the back of the net. 

Can't fault his endeavour - and we do look a better side with him in it. But I think that's more an indictment of our alternatives than an endorsement of Adams' ability.

 

[DT]

4 hours ago, GDog07 said:

Are they? lol

Um. Yes. Courtesy of some appalling VAR

[VictiAbNonem]

I suppose football might occasionally become more exciting if strikers are allowed to flick the ball up in front of themselves and then punch it it in.

Edited 30 January, 2021 by VictiAbNonem

[Turkish]

35 minutes ago, trousers said:

There's no way the human eye could have judged that as a certain offside, so he was wrong to flag it as such.  There's no way he could have been *sure* it was offside. He was on an ego trip, pure and simple. (IMO)

Anyway, you appear to be skirting over the overriding issue which is that the VAR used the incorrect snapshot..

 

 

 

Did it? I missed that.

[saintwbu]

Peter Walton vs Leeds at home

Kevin Friend vs Liverpool at home

New addition to the hall of fame, Lee Mason vs Aston Villa at home. Astonishingly bad.

[the colonel]

Am I right in saying:

1. Lee Mason didn't blow for hand ball. So with or without VAR 'no pen'.

2. the lineo put flag up for offside as soon as it happened (every other time waits for VAR). Again with or without VAR 'no goal'

So not only VAR a waste of space, the officials on the pitch were an absolute joke.

So with VAR refereeing has not improved in England. 

You only have to think about the quality of English Referees that Graham Poll is considered one of the best in the last 25 years!!!! And, as I'm sure everyone remembers, he managed to give 3 yellows to Croatian Josip Šimunić. I once was sat opposite him at a formal dinner and he was so full of himself. Seems to me to be a trait of the refs we have. I can't think of a decent one since Howard Webb.

 

[SaintTex]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Like everyone else I am angry tonight but let’s not the injustice of the decisions that went against us cloud some of our own inadequacies. Redmond for me has been poor for 18 months. He simply isn’t good enough. Adams is not a PL striker, he’s too one footed, great heart, works hard but not quite there which is a shame. Armstrong too in and out. Does some good stuff then fades. Djenepo again inconsistent and not sure he is PL standard. I could go on and even include Ings who since the debate about his new contract surfaced has been distinctly under par. I think we are a well run club and I am impressed with Martin Semmens interviews because he actually answers the questions but while we continue to watch the pennies we will have to accept avoiding relegation is our target. 
We need investment to compete and we need vision. We have the latter with Ralph but not the former with Gao. 

Are we not smack dab in the middle of the PL table on the backs of the players you dont rate as PL standard?

Yeah, i wish they were more consistent, but if they were, they would be playing for Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs in the blink of an eye.

Edited 31 January, 2021 by SaintTex

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Maybe the yellow card for JWP. It was quite clearly our throw, Targett took it quickly before the lino had even flagged, JWP rightly tried to stop it because it quite blatantly came off Targett and should have been our throw. And he gets a yellow for it. Ridiculous.

He got a yellow for dissent even if it was a wrong decision. The referee is always right, even when he’s wrong.

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Bandy Golac said:

I've been watching Saints since the 70s and this is the most wound up I have ever got about a game, and that includes many many bad experiences, and even beats the semi final against Everton in 1984. Saints played ok today and were only beaten by ineptitude by the referee, who seemed incapable of making the correct decision, and a linesman who ignored directives and was putting his flag up at every opportunity, backed up by a not fit for purpose VAR system. Everyone knows that the linesman are told to keep their flag down and let play continue. If he had followed directives and kept his flag down for the Ings goal then it would never have been disallowed. As for the handball, before VAR that would have been a penalty 10 out of 10 times, he has basically saved the ball from going in the net.  How more blatant can it be? The referee is a good position and can clearly see that, he shouldn't need VAR. I don't know about you, but when I saw it on replay I thought ' Well that's a stonewall, who is going to take the pen?', I was incredulous when it wasn't given. Of course, I am unhappy because Saints lost, but I think my anger is more about the way that football is being ruined by this ridiculous Big Brother management of the game. You know who should be ashamed? All of those who were foaming at the mouth for VAR a couple of years ago, when every proper football supporter knew that the game, although flawed, was still close to beautiful. At least then you could celebrate a goal unconditionally. Remember that? As long as the linesman flag stayed down, then it was time to go mental and jump around with the bloke next to you. I yearn for that again to be honest. 

Anyway, feel better now I've got that off my chest. Congratulations to Villa and I'm sure we'll beat Man U on Tuesday without needing any help from VAR. 

 

 

 

People are complaining about Var but even without Var both incidents would still have gone the same way.

Lee Mason took the initial decision and didn t give the handball and the linesman would have given offside.

Var is not at fault here, it is the standard of referreing for the handball and a ridiculous offside rule.

 

[sydney_saint]

I can handle the offside in isolation. Every team has been fucked over by it multiple times. But what pisses me off is this. He is considered offside by the sleeve of his shirt. A part of the body he can not score from. Yet their defender is allowed to defend with an outstretched arm with a shot on goal. This is absurd. I don't think lee Mason is corrupt though. He is woefully inept. Whether for us or against us, or in a completely different match I don't care. Nuno was absolutely bang on in his assessment of him and it is an embarrassment to the FA that he is still considered worthy of the top division.

About 15 years ago I was fortunate enough to be progressing through the Australian ref ranks pretty quickly. Not something I ever took super seriously but had a bit of a knack for it. And as a ref you kinda look for inspirations, just like players do. I remember very distinctly watching Mike Reilly and thinking that is a ref I absolutely do not want to be like. I thought not only was he woefully incompetent, but that he didn't understand football and would be a stickler for the rules rather than manage the game. It's little wonder he has managed a cohort of refereeing to be like this. Mike Dean finding some finicky interpretation not to give it is systematic of how refs are coached now. 

I have sympathy for the ref community. They lose so many talented refs in the ranks through to abuse. Frankly that was why I quit, and know many others better than me that did too for the same reason. But when you have someone like Lee Mason chosen week after week, and VAR decisions like this, then as an organisation they deserve flak.

[OttawaSaint]

Left immediately after the game, boiling with rage, put in my fastest cross country ski of the year. I’m still furious.

[Super Carlton]

Fuck me, I don't know anything about football anymore. 

No penalty for blocking that shot in the box, but got offside because of the hand.

[OttawaSaint]

That bald cunt lino was boiling my piss too. His look of glee every time he put his flag up. 

These twats need to be carpeted. They think the game is all about them. 

The blatant cheating by the VAR official was just beyond. The ball was a blur and he’s measuring further and further down Ings’ arm. I’m losing a bit of interest in football due to some of these decisions. Every game seems to have a controversial decision in it these days. 

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

What was the third one? The 'foul' on their keeper by Romeu?

I'd have been surprised to get that in any situation, goal keeper protection and all that! 

Yeah that's the one. Romeu barely touched him.

[OttawaSaint]

1 minute ago, Dark Munster said:

Yeah that's the one. Romeu barely touched him.

If anything he jumped into Romeu and dropped the ball. Ludicrous decision.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Do you think we were good then? Honestly? No energy, never looked like scoring in first half, despite huge possession advantage. Sure, one or both decisions could, maybe should have gone out way and maybe we would have got 3 points, but it would have been papering over the cracks. We were very poor, really missed KWP especially. Our passing was all over the place. We didn't press. Blame Mason and VAR all you want but we were rubbish, again. On top of that 3 new injuries. 

I was responding to the poster who said we were abysmal. We weren't. We may not have been great, but despite the errors you mentioned we did create a number of decent chances, not to mention the 3 diabolical decisions that went against us.

[Billy the Kidd]

I haven't been angry over our games since the offside in the cup final v Utd.

 

I've woken up and I'm still fucked off.

 

It isn't just shit officiating,  it is cheating.

 

I wonder with how fast they decided Ings was offside, which was quick, they just thought, nah,  dont want to allow the goal.

 

And with Mason and Dean, I bet theyre wanking themselves silly on a Teams call still now over their performance.

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Jeremy]

I agree with all of you who have criticised the officiating. Sport is about the skill and fitness of the players, not some fat officious fools with masssive egos who think the game revolves around them. Classic case of power in the wrong hands. Those blokes should be stood down at least for the handball call. Robbed of at least a draw.

[Chris cooper]

Just watched it again ..Hadrian’s wall isn’t as stone as that pen ! Why o why are we too nice ? Why don’t our players surround the twat of a ref like other teams do ? I know it’s a fine if you kick off against the officials at the end of a game but fuck me ralphs interview he just took it up the arse !no rage no passion about the incidents and there were a few !nuno at wolves went spare at mason and won’t let him officiate any of wolves home games I’m told . Can we do that ? ..so much wrong with the current game now it’s embarrassing and falling out of a 36 year love affair with it !! Needs addressing pronto!!

[pimpin4rizeal]

We need to try and go back to being a counter attack team that wins the ball and breaks fast( bar set pieces) it’s the only way we score..

we can not break dowh teams who have time to organise 

[Sheaf Saint]

I'm still seething about that officiating this morning. 

[Maya's Dad]

what a fucking joke

handball. no clear evidence it hit anything but his arm. but fine ok next

romeu. no fucking chance. what else literally can he do?

disallowed goal. what the actual fuck? hes sat there choosing where the line starts while counting the cash in the envelope

 

[DT]

7 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

People are complaining about Var but even without Var both incidents would still have gone the same way.

Lee Mason took the initial decision and didn t give the handball and the linesman would have given offside.

Var is not at fault here, it is the standard of referreing for the handball and a ridiculous offside rule.

 

For VAR to be effective it needs people with actual eyes

[Fan The Flames]

The lino shouldn't have flagged, it was far to close for that, but because he did VAR then made every effort to agree with him.

Still haven't seen an angle of the handball where you see it come off his thigh.

And the 'foul' on the keeper was non-existent, not so bothered about this one because it's been like this for years with keepers but the other two are still wrong in my opinion.

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Fan The Flames

[egg]

1 hour ago, Jeremy said:

I agree with all of you who have criticised the officiating. Sport is about the skill and fitness of the players, not some fat officious fools with masssive egos who think the game revolves around them. Classic case of power in the wrong hands. Those blokes should be stood down at least for the handball call. Robbed of at least a draw.

Indeed. Paddy Power agree too. This says it all. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

When a contentious decision has been made during a football match, I think the officials should come out after the game and explain why they made their decisions. It wouldn't change the outcome but they ought to be held to account because at the moment they are untouchable. Last night was a joke. I would prefer to win games but I have been a Saints supporter for long enough to accept the defeats. However, some, like last night are very hard to take. We deserved a point from that game. If I had my way it would take a good surgeon a couple of hours to remove that bloody flag from the linesman's ass. Very concerned to see Diallo and Walcott limp off. 2 players back and 2 players off. Man U next. I suppose their top scorer, Pen, will be playing. 

[Sheaf Saint]

Does anyone know where I can watch a full re-run of the match?

I need to see that phantom offside incident shortly before Villa scored, because that is just bizarre. Nobody was even slightly close to being in an offside position during that move, and the lino ignored the guidelines about keeping his flag down until the ball is either in the net or has been cleared.

Questions need to be asked about that.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Still raging...!

[Toussaint]

10 hours ago, tajjuk said:

You know we do that on purpose yeh, its an attempt to draw the opposition out to create space and then quickly get the ball forward between the lines. 

Except they now all know that’s what we do and it’s become very ineffective and not difficult to counter.

[rallyboy]

With every new incident that became the type of game that raises eyebrows in the unit that investigates gambling.

[Toussaint]

23 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Does anyone know where I can watch a full re-run of the match?

I need to see that phantom offside incident shortly before Villa scored, because that is just bizarre. Nobody was even slightly close to being in an offside position during that move, and the lino ignored the guidelines about keeping his flag down until the ball is either in the net or has been cleared.

Questions need to be asked about that.

Don’t put yourself through it. It resulted in a bad night’s sleep and a headache for me.

[Chickendippers]

I feel a bit sorry for the linos they genuinely don't seem to know when to put the flag up or not. When people are miles offside play goes on and the commentator starts spitting feathers because they have been told to keep the flag down yet our friend last night (and Sian Massey a few games ago) couldn't wait to get it up. And got it wrong. That was the worst display of refereeing since the cup final for us. Cash intended to stop the ball with his hand, he had no idea it had hit his thigh from the interview he did - how can Mike Riley be sure from Stockley Park? It can only be because Lee Mason didnt give it and he wanted to back his mate up - shocking.

Linos can be over-ruled if they flag incorrectly so the Ings 'goal' would have stood. But how can VAR know when the ball was played that precisely so they can draw their lines - a frame earlier Ings would have been onside. It's a joke. VAR was brought in to avoid Gabbiadini goals being ruled out not for this crap.

 

It was a bit of a Hughes performance. Lots of effort but not clinical up front. It was a game too far for Diallo - he played OK but we improved when JWP was moved back into the middle. I think JWP would have tracked Barkley better (or handed him off to Stephens better for the goal). He seems to be a 'nice and 'quiet' sort of player which doesn't help when you have someone like Stephens behing you. Ralph should have played Valery and gave the lad a rest in my opinion. Adams and Djenepo made a difference with Djenepo doing what Redmond should have been doing and trying to beat his man. Ings looked a lot sharper which was good to see. Romeu was excellent - I had forgotten how much he had improved, there were some brilliant forward passes and link up play.

Anyway - Mike Dean and ManU up next so we will need to score at least 2 to get past their nailed on Penalty decision.

My Sunday is ruined, looking forward to enjoying reading the match thread and all the newspaper reports. 

[WALK DMC]

9 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Like everyone else I am angry tonight but let’s not the injustice of the decisions that went against us cloud some of our own inadequacies. Redmond for me has been poor for 18 months. He simply isn’t good enough. Adams is not a PL striker, he’s too one footed, great heart, works hard but not quite there which is a shame. Armstrong too in and out. Does some good stuff then fades. Djenepo again inconsistent and not sure he is PL standard. I could go on and even include Ings who since the debate about his new contract surfaced has been distinctly under par. I think we are a well run club and I am impressed with Martin Semmens interviews because he actually answers the questions but while we continue to watch the pennies we will have to accept avoiding relegation is our target. 
We need investment to compete and we need vision. We have the latter with Ralph but not the former with Gao. 

I always think Saints play better when Che is on the pitch and his hold-up play, spreading of the play and through balls are all Premier class. 

However, he refuses to kick the football with his left foot. This isn't a weaker side, it's a total no-go zone. He will do ANYTHING to avoid the round thing touching his left foot, contorting his body into strange positions, or wasting precious seconds while he moves his whole body so that he can kick with his right. Watch the video of his 20+ goals in his last season with Birmingham, with the exception of a knock in on the goal line EVERYTHING is right foot. He scored this season with his left (away Chelsea) but again it was close to the goal line. There has been the odd faint bit of hope - he crossed a ball with his left against Arsenal (our household erupted in cheering), but nothing has significantly improved.

And that's my point. What the hell have Ralph and his coaching staff been doing for the last 18 months ?  How difficult is it to develop a professional footballers left foot so that they can kick it in the direction of the goal with reasonable accuracy and power. He'll always have a stronger side (Ings does), but surely it is possible to avoid the total reliance (and predictability) on his right  ? 

Romeu is slow. No amount of fitness training will make him quick. Learning to kick with both feet can be learnt and developed. Of course, some of this is up to Che, but he has a clear choice; Be a moderate 1 footed Premier footballer, or develop his limitations and be a feared Top 10 striker.   The potential is clearly there. 

Ps Don't get me started on his heading 🙂 

[beatlesaint]

41 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed. Paddy Power agree too. This says it all. 

You know you’ve been fucked over when even a bookie agrees!!

[Shroppie]

3 minutes ago, Chickendippers said:

Linos can be over-ruled if they flag incorrectly so the Ings 'goal' would have stood. But how can VAR know when the ball was played that precisely so they can draw their lines - a frame earlier Ings would have been onside. It's a joke. VAR was brought in to avoid Gabbiadini goals being ruled out not for this crap.

This is a key point. The system is being used to measure millimeters when the margin of error with the lines is much greater, plus the ridiculous confused definition of what part of the arm is offside.

But the choosing of the freeze frame is critical, but never challenged. One frame earlier last night and Danny is inside.  And the VAR ref chooses. The ball is a blur in the shot of the frame used so it's impossible to be sure. It's open to subjectivity or worse.

 

[Billy the Kidd]

9 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Do you think we were good then? Honestly? No energy, never looked like scoring in first half, despite huge possession advantage. Sure, one or both decisions could, maybe should have gone out way and maybe we would have got 3 points, but it would have been papering over the cracks. We were very poor, really missed KWP especially. Our passing was all over the place. We didn't press. Blame Mason and VAR all you want but we were rubbish, again. On top of that 3 new injuries. 

 

Seriously, how can you say we were rubbish? Sure we've played better, but Ings move to get the handball play was great, as was his ball through to Adam's. And the goal was also good play.

We are also fucked with injuries just now, not 1 or 2, but about 8. 

I heard Liverpool are looking for new supporters, but as they haven't played well lately I guess you may now be applying ...

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

This is a key point. The system is being used to measure millimeters when the margin of error with the lines is much greater, plus the ridiculous confused definition of what part of the arm is offside.

But the choosing of the freeze frame is critical, but never challenged. One frame earlier last night and Danny is inside.  And the VAR ref chooses. The ball is a blur in the shot of the frame used so it's impossible to be sure. It's open to subjectivity or worse.

 

The ball was blurred so must have left the foot at the time of the still frame. The frame before shows that the ball has not been kicked. This shows up the nonsense of using VAR for such tight offsides. If the assistant had not been so keen to raise his flag then it is possible that VAR would have let the goal stand but didn’t see it as an obvious mistake.

As for the handball, referees are going to be reluctant to give such penalties because they know that VAR is watching over their shoulder. The ball did glance off Cash’s thigh very slightly but the essential point is that the ball would have hit his hand anyway. It was not as though the ball only hit his hand because it had taken a deflection off a part of his body. The goalkeeper would have comfortably saved it anyway but that is not the point. As clear a handball as you will ever see.

There are two competing aspects here. The referee being less likely to give a penalty because of VAR and VAR not overruling the referee because of it not being a clear and obvious mistake. The benefit of doubt has effectively moved towards the defenders.

And when is Che ever going to use his left foot? He’s a good player but only half a footballer.

[eurosaint]

In this case, clearly the biggest issue is with the interpretation of VAR which seems to ignore any aspect of fair play and the spirit of sporting entertainment !

ALL of the ex players on both Sky and BBC said that they were perplexed with both decisions and basically that both were wrong...

Are we to believe that Lee Mason actually witnessed the ball hitting Cash's thigh before his hand (TV showed it 20 times or more in super slo-mo and it still wasn't conclusive) so how could he not give it ? Had he given it then Dean would have had to overrule it on the basis of 'clear and obvious error' which would have been nigh on impossible to justify !

Between Mason and Dean they managed to concoct reasons to decide based on dubious, hairline technicalities rather than any form of common sense !

Football is suffering a credibility crisis because of this and the ecstasy of last minute equalisers etc.. is now a thing of the past 😫 !

I'm in total despair !

Edited 31 January, 2021 by eurosaint

[adrian lord]

Scandalous officiating. A blatant penalty and 2 perfectly good goals disallowed. 

Offside should be measured by the most forward part of the players' feet. The rule is surely about standing in an offside position, and where your feet are defines where you are standing, not an arm, an arse, or head or shoulder. 

Edited 31 January, 2021 by adrian lord

[OldNick]

10 hours ago, trousers said:

Maybe the officials in the stadium have their decisions influenced, (subconsciously or otherwise) by knowing that they've got VAR to back them up or correct them if they make the wrong decision. In other words, maybe the ref would have given the penalty if he knew it wasn't going to be scrutinized and maybe the lino wouldn't have given the offside if he knew VAR wasn't lurking in the background. Yes, I know that can work both ways but it would surprise me if officials in the stadium aren't influenced into potentially making different decision when they know VAR is lurking. 

Mason implied he thought it hit Cash on the chest, Dean played the Refs Union card as he knows that Mason will VAR him  one day and so backs him up.

As for the lino flagging, there is no way he could have seen such a tight decision, he guessed.

One of my biggest disappointments was JWP free kick into the wall. That was the best chance and he failed miserably as it seemed to be in a perfect position

[Teddeer]

Unfortunately incompetent referees like Mason have now also become total cowards. What I mean by that is that they rely on the cosy blanket of VAR rather than doing their job and making big decisions on things like whether it is a penalty. When a defender commits a possible infringement in the box Mason prefers to bottle it, give nothing and wait for VAR to do his job. Lack of moral fibre I'm afraid.

As for the offside the linesman clearly could not have been certain Ings was offside so should not have raised his flag. In reality he probably raised it, not based on when the ball was kicked but on the fact that Ings got in before the defenders ergo he must have been offside. This type of decision making is killing the predatory nature of strikers like Ings and is ruining the game.

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Teddeer

[goodymatt]

I’m still fuming this morning. Incredible combination of crazy decisions for one game:

1. Handball - he’s not been unlucky that it’s just bounced up off his thigh and hit his arm. It’s slightly touched his thigh and not impacted the ball direction. His hand is in a goalkeeper’s position and that’s as stonewall a penalty as you’ll see. If the rules say any touch means it’s not a pen, that opens up some weird situations and you’d hope they slightly amend the rule like they did with the recent City offside vs Villa.

2. Offside given to us on a backwards pass the phase before their goal. This stuff happens all the time. It’s a poor decision but we have plenty of time to defend the next action. Grealish created that goal so well. Would KWP have stopped it?

3. Romeu foul on keeper - does he really foul the keeper? I know the goalkeeper’s union is fairly consistent on these calls but like the Burnley goal disallowed vs Leeds, there isn’t a foul and the whistle shouldn’t be blown. Why isn’t that a goal? VAR should be looking as things like this more closely, as well as actually punishing diving. Both are just accepted currently.

4. Danny Ings equaliser - the ball is blurred in the freeze frame, surely that’s too late? The armband extends his shirt, are all short sleeves even the same length. They should change the rule to see what part of the body you actually score from. His sleeve gave Ings no advantage in scoring this particular goal anyway and we were denied a perfectly good goal.

It’s hard not to come across as being bias when there are so many unjust moments in one game. This was a 6 pointer against a team we are directly competing with. We didn’t play to our best and certainly weren’t as clinical as we should be from the chances created. But with our injuries and players playing out of position, we created 20 shots against one of the best defences in the league. The referees cost us potentially 3 goals. We deserved the 3 points without question IMO.

With our injuries and United up next, I can’t see how we don’t languish in mid to low-mid table until we can play a strong team. I fear this will be too late to have a late push for a special finish to this season. We are unlikely to see where we could have really finished and with Ings potentially going this summer, the chance may not come again for a while. 

[saintwbu]

Having calmed down about 0.5% from last night, I would like to say Oriol Romeu was absolutely fucking awesome, yet again. What a player. 

 

Fuck the referees, fuck Mike Riley, fuck Matty Cash who should now have been sent off in BOTH games for deliberate handballs denying clear goal scoring opportunities. 

[Chapel End]

6 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

I’m still fuming this morning. Incredible combination of crazy decisions for one game:

1. Handball - he’s not been unlucky that it’s just bounced up off his thigh and hit his arm. It’s slightly touched his thigh and not impacted the ball direction. His hand is in a goalkeeper’s position and that’s as stonewall a penalty as you’ll see. If the rules say any touch means it’s not a pen, that opens up some weird situations and you’d hope they slightly amend the rule like they did with the recent City offside vs Villa.

2. Offside given to us on a backwards pass the phase before their goal. This stuff happens all the time. It’s a poor decision but we have plenty of time to defend the next action. Grealish created that goal so well. Would KWP have stopped it?

3. Romeu foul on keeper - does he really foul the keeper? I know the goalkeeper’s union is fairly consistent on these calls but like the Burnley goal disallowed vs Leeds, there isn’t a foul and the whistle shouldn’t be blown. Why isn’t that a goal? VAR should be looking as things like this more closely, as well as actually punishing diving. Both are just accepted currently.

4. Danny Ings equaliser - the ball is blurred in the freeze frame, surely that’s too late? The armband extends his shirt, are all short sleeves even the same length. They should change the rule to see what part of the body you actually score from. His sleeve gave Ings no advantage in scoring this particular goal anyway and we were denied a perfectly good goal.

It’s hard not to come across as being bias when there are so many unjust moments in one game. This was a 6 pointer against a team we are directly competing with. We didn’t play to our best and certainly weren’t as clinical as we should be from the chances created. But with our injuries and players playing out of position, we created 20 shots against one of the best defences in the league. The referees cost us potentially 3 goals. We deserved the 3 points without question IMO.

With our injuries and United up next, I can’t see how we don’t languish in mid to low-mid table until we can play a strong team. I fear this will be too late to have a late push for a special finish to this season. We are unlikely to see where we could have really finished and with Ings potentially going this summer, the chance may not come again for a while. 

Top post mate and spot on

[Maya's Dad]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Does anyone know where I can watch a full re-run of the match?

I need to see that phantom offside incident shortly before Villa scored, because that is just bizarre. Nobody was even slightly close to being in an offside position during that move, and the lino ignored the guidelines about keeping his flag down until the ball is either in the net or has been cleared.

Questions need to be asked about that.

if you are still up for 90 minutes of pure frustration and anger then you can find it here https://hdmatches.net/category/premier-league/

[saints-cris]

Genuinely don’t think I’ve seen a worse performance from a refereeing outfit in my entire life. 
 

The handball is as stonewall on first, second, tenth viewing. How they spent 3 minutes looking at it and thought ‘yeah, no problems there’ is beyond inept.
 

The Romeu / goalie incident is almost being glossed over, which says how poor the decisions were overall. The goalie made a mess and got away with it, simple as.

 

As for Ings, it’s all been said already, but this is not what VAR was brought in for. It’s embarrassing that we may look back at these incidents wondering what on earth was going on in football back then. 
 

Add into the mix the extra 3 injuries and I can’t remember ever a more unenjoyable and more irritating match to watch.  

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, saints-cris said:

Genuinely don’t think I’ve seen a worse performance from a refereeing outfit in my entire life. 
 

The handball is as stonewall on first, second, tenth viewing. How they spent 3 minutes looking at it and thought ‘yeah, no problems there’ is beyond inept.
 

The Romeu / goalie incident is almost being glossed over, which says how poor the decisions were overall. The goalie made a mess and got away with it, simple as.

 

As for Ings, it’s all been said already, but this is not what VAR was brought in for. It’s embarrassing that we may look back at these incidents wondering what on earth was going on in football back then. 
 

Add into the mix the extra 3 injuries and I can’t remember ever a more unenjoyable and more irritating match to watch.  

Nothing will top that Chelsea vs. Barcelona game from the CL. At least, I hope it wont.

[Sheaf Saint]

21 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

if you are still up for 90 minutes of pure frustration and anger then you can find it here https://hdmatches.net/category/premier-league/

Thanks found it.

It gets even more bizarre, because there was a blatant foul on Diallo as he played the ball forward to Stu as well.

The taters didn't even comment on it. None of our players questioned it.

The lino is supposed to keep his flag down until the phase of play is over. What exactly has he seen here? It's just mental.