Danny Ings

[JustinSFC]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/transfer-news/danny-ings-manchester-city-transfer-5258011

Ralphs comments on this seems to be that he will only go to a big club, but if a big club come in for him we'd struggle to say no. Also seems to imply at the end that he's not good enough for City. I think there is still a chance he stays but if a big chain of transfers takes place I could see him replacing Kane at spurs and them reinvesting most of the Kane money elsewhere in their team with a new CB pairing and keeper wanted.

I read that as Ralph saying he isn't good enough for city haha.

Well done Ralph.

That's basically what he's said without actually saying it.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I read that as Ralph saying he isn't good enough for city haha.

Well done Ralph.

That's basically what he's said without actually saying it.

I love Ings as much as any saints fan does but he's not wrong. City are being linked to Haaland, Kane, and Lukaku, Ings is definitely a few levels down. Ings is europa league pushing CL quality, City are arguably the best team in world football.

Edited 2 April, 2021 by TWar

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

I read that as Ralph saying he isn't good enough for city haha.

Well done Ralph.

That's basically what he's said without actually saying it.

Yeah he kind of intimated that. But it's true, anyone is deluded to think otherwise really - including him. It would be a shame to waste the last couple of peak years of his career as a squad player at Man City. I'm sure Nathan Ake is loving the minutes he's getting on the pitch.

No fun it that really, and I think Danny looks at it more than just the pay cheque. But maybe that's just me being naive and he's also all about the money.

[JRM]

6 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

I read that as Ralph saying he isn't good enough for city haha.

Well done Ralph.

That's basically what he's said without actually saying it.

Yep in the pre match press conference Ralph seems to laugh at the idea City would want Ings. But does also say if one of the top clubs do offer we struggle to hold on to players.

Edited 2 April, 2021 by JRM

[tajjuk]

Guardiola has come out and said they don't think they have the money to buy a striker at those sorts of prices, i.e. Haaland so could make Ings a cheaper option. I mean City are doing ok pretty much only having Jesus available all season. 

[Lighthouse]

31 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Guardiola has come out and said they don't think they have the money to buy a striker at those sorts of prices, i.e. Haaland so could make Ings a cheaper option. I mean City are doing ok pretty much only having Jesus available all season. 

Standard negotiation technique.  Whatever City have got planned, they won’t be replacing Aguero with Danny Ings.

[CB Fry]

55 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Guardiola has come out and said they don't think they have the money to buy a striker at those sorts of prices, i.e. Haaland so could make Ings a cheaper option. I mean City are doing ok pretty much only having Jesus available all season. 

But Ings wouldn't really be a "cheaper" option.

If you believe what Pep is saying, that Man City want sustainable signings and won't over pay, that does really mean spaffing forty odd million on 29 year old walking treatment table Danny Ings. Signing this Halaand kid is likely to be better value for money, even if he is  three times more expensive up front

And Pep's quoted as saying "there is more chance we are not going to buy any striker for next season" and "we are not going to sign any striker. It's impossible"

So basically it doesn't matter what Pep said, people just reframe it as "Ings is going to City" because they've decided already.

Anyway, the quotes are standard press conference bollocks and as your interpretation shows, people just use it to prove what they already think is going to happen.

Edited 3 April, 2021 by CB Fry

[JustinSFC]

If Ings ends up at city he'll be paid double or triple what he gets here and he'll win trophies.

He'll be on the bench a lot though.

Good luck to him.

Can't really see City going for him unless it's cheap. Say £20m. 

[TWar]

Add another 50k a week to the offer! Absolute difference maker today, a quality far beyond anyone else we have up top with a great goal, great assist, and constant headache for their defence.

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

Add another 50k a week to the offer! 

Our wage offer isn't likely to be the issue. If a CL level team wants him, he'll likely go and you couldn't blame him getting a last big payday.

[SKD]

44 minutes ago, TWar said:

Add another 50k a week to the offer! Absolute difference maker today, a quality far beyond anyone else we have up top with a great goal, great assist, and constant headache for their defence.

Yep. He’s been largely poor this season, but the difference between a win today or an embarrassing defeat. 
 

Maybe seeing his England Spot disappearing gave him a kick up the arse. 

[Barsiem]

I think the enforced break for injury has helped him recover from being a bit fatigued. Great to see some form from him today

As for his contract, I think it’s clear he’ll see who comes in for him in the summer.  If it’s someone good he’ll go, if not he’ll sign a new contract I expect.  

[JustinSFC]

5 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I think the enforced break for injury has helped him recover from being a bit fatigued. Great to see some form from him today

As for his contract, I think it’s clear he’ll see who comes in for him in the summer.  If it’s someone good he’ll go, if not he’ll sign a new contract I expect.  

It's who we replace him with.

If we let him go it needs to be £30m+.

However, I don't think we'll get anywhere near that.

29 years old, guaranteed 2 decent injuries a season and 1 year left on his contract come the summer.

If he wants to leave, I'd snap the hand off anyone offering £20m+.

The issue is his replacement and how much that's going to cost.

[Mr X]

14 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

It's who we replace him with.

If we let him go it needs to be £30m+.

However, I don't think we'll get anywhere near that.

29 years old, guaranteed 2 decent injuries a season and 1 year left on his contract come the summer.

If he wants to leave, I'd snap the hand off anyone offering £20m+.

The issue is his replacement and how much that's going to cost.

That's the issue even if we got 20 million plus saints being saints would gamble on buying some cheap ten million unknown player & hope for the best it's what we do, & the extra money would literally never be seen again! we rarely replace quality with equal quality  

Edited 4 April, 2021 by Mr X

[Convict Colony]

Patson Daka.with the 11 min hat-trick today for RB Salzburg

[JustinSFC]

3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

That's the issue even if we got 20 million plus saints being saints would gamble on buying some cheap ten million unknown player & hope for the best it's what we do, & the extra money would literally never be seen again! we rarely replace quality with equal quality  

We'd be looking for a Danny Ings, minus the injuries and few years younger.

I don't know who that is, that wouldn't cost a kings ransom...

[JustinSFC]

2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Patson Daka.with the 11 min hat-trick today for RB Salzburg

Not a chance we'd get him.

Not for our budget, he'd be at least £20M as an opening bid...

[Convict Colony]

34 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Not a chance we'd get him.

Not for our budget, he'd be at least £20M as an opening bid...

Reckon he will replace Halaand if he goes 

[tajjuk]

I think the Paton Daka ship has sailed, someone we might have been able to pick up maybe last season or so, but I think he'll basically skip our step now and jump straight to a champions league chasing team, as said above maybe Dortmund if they lose Haaland or to the main Leipzig club or like the Spurs sort of level club. 

We need to find the Patson Daka type before he goes to a club like Salzburg. 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Reckon he will replace Halaand if he goes 

Absolutely feels like a Dortmund conveyor belt type signing. Certainly out of our league, sadly.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

That's the issue even if we got 20 million plus saints being saints would gamble on buying some cheap ten million unknown player & hope for the best it's what we do, & the extra money would literally never be seen again! we rarely replace quality with equal quality  

We've signed several players for around the £20m mark in the past.

The worry is whether we can get someone of Ings' quality even for that amount.

There should be bargains about at least given every clubs' financial problems

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, Mr X said:

That's the issue even if we got 20 million plus saints being saints would gamble on buying some cheap ten million unknown player & hope for the best it's what we do, & the extra money would literally never be seen again! we rarely replace quality with equal quality  

How are we supposed to replace Ings with a player of equal quality? We'd have to spend all of his transfer fee plus millions more on wages and signing bonus to tempt that level of player to come to us, and even then they might still tell us to fuck off. 

The summer we replaced Lallana, Shaw and Lambert with Tadic, Bertrand and Pelle shows that we don't need to be finding the kind of expensive "proven" talent you're asking for, we just need to do some actual decent scouting.

[Mr X]

10 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

How are we supposed to replace Ings with a player of equal quality? We'd have to spend all of his transfer fee plus millions more on wages and signing bonus to tempt that level of player to come to us, and even then they might still tell us to fuck off. 

The summer we replaced Lallana, Shaw and Lambert with Tadic, Bertrand and Pelle shows that we don't need to be finding the kind of expensive "proven" talent you're asking for, we just need to do some actual decent scouting.

This is partly true, however like you say decent scouting is needed and that has been poor at saints for some time, why do you think that is? Panic buying? Bad advice? Poor scouts? Carillo, hoet, lemima, Ramirez, Osvaldo, etc 

I know we won't always get it right that is the nature of football but our ratio of buying flops is pretty poor. 

[Useful Idiot]

11 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

How are we supposed to replace Ings with a player of equal quality? We'd have to spend all of his transfer fee plus millions more on wages and signing bonus to tempt that level of player to come to us, and even then they might still tell us to fuck off. 

The summer we replaced Lallana, Shaw and Lambert with Tadic, Bertrand and Pelle shows that we don't need to be finding the kind of expensive "proven" talent you're asking for, we just need to do some actual decent scouting.

Pelle was the third highest scorer in European football over two seasons behind Messi and Ronaldo when we signed him. Tadic was the best creative player in the Eredivise by a mile. If we tried to sign the equivalent two players now it would cost far more than we could afford.

We've not signed an attacking player with a good record from a lesser league for a while now because we can't afford them. We seem to have changed our model to gambling on players who have had decent but unspectacular runs at a lower level (Djenepo had 12 goals in 61 games in two full seasons before signing, Mane had 42 in 79, Adams had 31 in 81, Pelle had 55 in 66) or players who are unhappy at bigger clubs who are looking for game time (Ings, Walcott).

I think that it is much harder to sign the top young prospects as most prefer the Bundesliga these days as it's the more attractive destination at present, both for wages, continental football, and work permit issues. I think we have to look to South America (particularly the top divisions in Brazil and Argentina, along with players that feature in the Copa Libertadores from Colombia, Uruguay and Peru as its easier for them to get work permits.) as there is probably more value for money there than there is in Europe.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Useful Idiot

[JustinSFC]

4 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

Pelle was the third highest scorer in European football over two seasons behind Messi and Ronaldo when we signed him. Tadic was the best creative player in the Eredivise by a mile. If we tried to sign the equivalent two players now it would cost far more than we could afford.

IIRC the only reason we got Pelle was because he was friends with Koeman or played for him or something.

We wouldn't get a Pelle now, not South of at least £30m quid.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

We wouldn't get a Pelle now, not South of at least £30m quid.

How many 29 year old players can you name that have cost £30m recently from the Dutch league? 🤔

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[JustinSFC]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How many 29 year old players can you name that have cost £30m recently from the Dutch league? 🤔

We signed Pelle nearly a decade ago mate. Prices have risen.

A Pelle now in any League would be quoted £30m quid at least. 

In my opinion. It's not fact. Opinion.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, JustinSFC said:

We signed Pelle nearly a decade ago mate. Prices have risen.

A Pelle now in any League would be quoted £30m quid at least. 

In my opinion. It's not fact. Opinion.

I asked for recent examples of 29 year olds who have not succeeded previously outside of the Dutch league costing £30m+. You failed to provide any.

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

IIRC the only reason we got Pelle was because he was friends with Koeman or played for him or something.

We wouldn't get a Pelle now, not South of at least £30m quid.

Agree it was Koeman's influence and presence that brought Pelle, and probably Tadic, in rather than the fabled black box and Les. 

Shame we haven't had the finances for Ralph to bring his 'shopping list' to fruition really.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree it was Koeman's influence and presence that brought Pelle, and probably Tadic, in rather than the fabled black box and Les. 

I think it is likely they'd have come regardless of Koeman, for the money and challenge of playing in a better league.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

😂

[Useful Idiot]

45 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I asked for recent examples of 29 year olds who have not succeeded previously outside of the Dutch league costing £30m+. You failed to provide any.

Perhaps a better way to look at this is to look at the best 29 year old player in the Eredivise, look at their market and likely sale value, and then compare them to Pelle.

 

Generally the sale price compared to transfermarkt value is between 1.5 and 2.5 for a player in demand.

 

The best 29 year old currently playing in the Netherlands is Steven Berghuis who has scored 31 goals in 51 games for Feyenoord over the past two seasons.

His market value is £10.8m (In comparison, Ings' value is £19.8m), so his likely sale value would be between £16 and £22m.

However, Pelle was considerably more prolific, so his transfer fee would likely be proportionately higher. I would suggest between £22m and £34m depending upon remaining length of contract.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Useful Idiot

[JustinSFC]

10 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Perhaps a better way to look at this is to look at the best 29 year old player in the Eredivise, look at their market and likely sale value, and then compare them to Pelle.

 

Generally the sale price compared to transfermarkt value is between 1.5 and 2.5 for a player in demand.

 

The best 29 year old currently playing in the Netherlands is Steven Berghuis who has scored 31 goals in 51 games for Feyenoord over the past two seasons.

His market value is £10.8m (In comparison, Ings' value is £19.8m), so his likely sale value would be between £16 and £22m.

However, Pelle was considerably more prolific, so his transfer fee would likely be proportionately higher. I would suggest between £22m and £34m depending upon remaining length of contract.

Good post that.

Also added the fact that Pelle was the 2nd or 3rd top scorer in Europe at that time and didn't get injured anything like Ings.

[JustinSFC]

46 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree it was Koeman's influence and presence that brought Pelle, and probably Tadic, in rather than the fabled black box and Les. 

Shame we haven't had the finances for Ralph to bring his 'shopping list' to fruition really.

Agreed. Ralph's shopping list if we're going by the Pelle/Koeman type relationship would be Timo Werner.

I think that pound for pound scenario would be physically out of our reach full stop in today's market.

[VectisSaint]

52 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I think it is likely they'd have come regardless of Koeman, for the money and challenge of playing in a better league.

Rubbish, Pelle and Tadic were both influenced to come because of Koeman as we're several others who joined in that period. If you think they would otherwise have joined you are more deluded than I imagined. And no, I won't provide you with evidence of my claim. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 

Shame we haven't had the finances for Ralph to bring his 'shopping list' to fruition really.

Which players did Ralph want that we wouldn’t pay for? Realistic ones, not fucking Messi. 

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Ex Lion Tamer]

54 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Perhaps a better way to look at this is to look at the best 29 year old player in the Eredivise, look at their market and likely sale value, and then compare them to Pelle.

 

Generally the sale price compared to transfermarkt value is between 1.5 and 2.5 for a player in demand.

 

The best 29 year old currently playing in the Netherlands is Steven Berghuis who has scored 31 goals in 51 games for Feyenoord over the past two seasons.

His market value is £10.8m (In comparison, Ings' value is £19.8m), so his likely sale value would be between £16 and £22m.

However, Pelle was considerably more prolific, so his transfer fee would likely be proportionately higher. I would suggest between £22m and £34m depending upon remaining length of contract.

Interesting method. Transfermarkt seems to store historic values and had Pelle's at just £5.8m at the time, though I guess you're right that it would be higher now

 

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[jawillwill]

2 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

No you listen to me right.

Whatever the fuck goes on in your private life puts you in a mood and you come on here looking for a fight.

I'm not here to entertain your fucking tedious crap.

FYI, you're not coming out looking particularly great from this exchange.

[JustinSFC]

6 minutes ago, jawillwill said:

FYI, you're not coming out looking particularly great from this exchange.

Oh shit.

[Chocolate Box]

Just added to my ignore list

[Badger]

6 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

Agreed. Ralph's shopping list if we're going by the Pelle/Koeman type relationship would be Timo Werner.

I think that pound for pound scenario would be physically out of our reach full stop in today's market.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Which players did Ralph want that we wouldn’t pay for? Realistic ones, not fucking Messi. 

No idea, quite rightly this is discussed within the confines of the club and not plastered over the media. 

 I'd be surprised if he didn't have some preferences and candidates he's seen in Germany and the Austrian leagues. (Like to think they're above the Danso standard though).

Plucking a name of the air, I'd not be surprised if Lookman was considered at some point.

[woodsaint1]

Hoping the club take a firm stance with any proposed transfer of Ings and dont let it drag its heels. For example telling his agent that he can leave for x amount, but it has to be completed by x date (this date being well in advance of the first game of the season). Then we'll see how much he's sought after then. The last thing we need is to be going into the first few games of the season with this still hanging over us (Ings possibly not wanting to play), or get to deadline day and have to bring in a replacement at late notice for an inflated price (wouldnt be like us 👀). 

We need to be proactive on any possible replacement and start making that contact now. Clubs like RB Leipzig and Dortmund do this very well - within days of a big sale, they have a replacement lined up and they're in the door in no time. The recent sale of Upamecano and purchase of Simakan was a good example from Leipzig. I imagine we'll have alot more knock backs than these clubs would, but if we have 3/4 priority targets then you would imagine we'll get one

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Hoping the club take a firm stance with any proposed transfer of Ings and dont let it drag its heels. For example telling his agent that he can leave for x amount, but it has to be completed by x date (this date being well in advance of the first game of the season). Then we'll see how much he's sought after then. The last thing we need is to be going into the first few games of the season with this still hanging over us (Ings possibly not wanting to play), or get to deadline day and have to bring in a replacement at late notice for an inflated price (wouldnt be like us 👀). 

Only having a year left on his contract means Saints can't really afford to do that. Ings and his agent are in the position of power, not Saints.

[woodsaint1]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Only having a year left on his contract means Saints can't really afford to do that. Ings and his agent are in the position of power, not Saints.

With his injuries this season, his position of power isnt as strong as it was.

The club arent playing hardball in the instance I've suggested, far from it. They're giving Ings his move but it needs to be a sensible fee (cant see us getting more than £18m personally) and be completed by mid July say so they club can move forward with integrating a replacement. Means the likes of City, Spurs or whoever need to act early if they want him. Thats very reasonable to me

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 hours ago, Badger said:

 

No idea, quite rightly this is discussed within the confines of the club and not plastered over the media. 

 I'd be surprised if he didn't have some preferences and candidates he's seen in Germany and the Austrian leagues. (Like to think they're above the Danso standard though).

Plucking a name of the air, I'd not be surprised if Lookman was considered at some point.

So you post that we didn’t have the finances to get in the players Ralph wanted, yet you haven’t got a clue who these players are. 

[TWar]

33 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So you post that we didn’t have the finances to get in the players Ralph wanted, yet you haven’t got a clue who these players are. 

That's not really a contradiction. Ralph has said multiple times the team is lacking quality in depth. Clearly he would want us to sign quality and would be disappointed that the funds we have spent have been meagre. This can all be deduced without knowing the specific targets he would have wanted but has not gotten.

[Turkish]

What's that now the fifth injury this season? You have to wonder if the club are praying he doesn't sign.

[ErwinK1961]

42 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What's that now the fifth injury this season? You have to wonder if the club are praying he doesn't sign.

Shame, he's obviously a very good player. But we cannot afford to be paying his c. £100k a week if he's going to miss 15 games a season. Plus you'd expect the injuries to get worse as he gets older.

I'm sure he'll find himself a new club and nice contract in the summer.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Shame, he's obviously a very good player. But we cannot afford to be paying his c. £100k a week if he's going to miss 15 games a season. Plus you'd expect the injuries to get worse as he gets older.

I'm sure he'll find himself a new club and nice contract in the summer.

I’m not sure this season’s list of injuries makes him leaving a given for all the reasons you list in your first paragraph. I think he’ll have to run down his contract.

[Chapel End]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

What's that now the fifth injury this season? You have to wonder if the club are praying he doesn't sign.

Then they would withdraw the offer wouldn't they?