Saints 1-0 Liverpool — Reaction

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Thiago should have gone after 25 mins, but the ref bottled it and again just after half time. Had he been one of ours I suspect he would have gone....

Mane should have had 2 yellows for dives - again never going to happen to a big 6 player

I dont know how Mane escaped a booking for lashing out at KWP after he'd nicked the ball off him on the edge of the penalty area. I was pleased he did that as it showed how frustrated their players were, but even so cant carry on like that and get away with it. As others have mentioned fair play to the ref, all the moaning about penalties none of them were, it's about time we got a bit of luck against those c***s.

[Totton Saint]

I said on the match build up thread I had a good feeling about this game and I am glad it turned out to be justified. As a point of interest the Daily Telegraph gave Armstrong and Ings  a score of 9 out of 10.The first time I have seen that given to a player.  Iam so proud of all the players.Bring on the foxes

When will the pundits start taking us seriously!!

[Shroppie]

8 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

Pogba dove for the penalty that won the game against Aston Villa, and actually berated Luke Shaw for not diving earlier, can you believe it?

Disgusting player. Disgusting attitude.

[Convict Colony]

Loved and hated that game for periods.

Diallo covered everything like he was at a bukakke party and the thing he gives us v Romeu and what we have been lacking is forward passes as his default setting. Saw a stat that 22 out of 38 were forward passes and his clever close control in the midfield was awesome, JWP a good partner as well.

Think defense as a bloc did very well and I think Stephens has been excellent since he has come in.

Forster whilst it was nice to see him didn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.  I saw a few times when stephens expected him to come and he was still inside his 6yr box and also his kicking has not improved.

Armstrong has this annoying habit this season of dribbling into the centre circle trying to beat 3 players and losing it, not sure if Ralph has asked him to cut inside and try and open up his options but it is bloody annoying seeing him lose it and the oppo launch an attack.

Walcott seemed to lose his close control and decision making last night, was Djenpo esq.

Ings quality and well done to all the subs, nice to see ralph use young guys over long to give them a try, liked Nlundlu - he's actually a big striker with nimble feet.

Enjoyed 22 pages of RAWK - in summary, there is a conspiracy by referee's, they hate carragher, they love ralph and everyone is out to get them.

 

Edited 5 January, 2021 by Convict Colony

[saint1977]

Great win and tremendous effort with the players we had missing, bench as threadbare as the later 1990s squads.

For sheer hard work, up there with the WGS Cup Final side which I also loved watching, full of character. Forster got better with his distribution and good block on Mane, wouldn’t have known he was offside. Very few saves to make as back 4 were unreal, not least Stephens and KWP but all 4 fantastic as a unit.

Diallo a big part of that as well, just edged KWP and Stephens as my MOTM. JWP and Armstrong superb, and such a clever goal from Ings, he 100 per cent intended that. Good cameo from Valery further forward, something for him to build on. 

[Sheaf Saint]

7 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Armstrong has this annoying habit this season of dribbling into the centre circle trying to beat 3 players and losing it,

 

That's not a new thing this season. There was a game last season (forget which one) where we conceded as a result of exactly that, and there were numerous other times he did it and got away with it.

[Noodles34]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That's not a new thing this season. There was a game last season (forget which one) where we conceded as a result of exactly that, and there were numerous other times he did it and got away with it.

Chelsea

[Convict Colony]

yeah thought he had done it quite a few times but just seemed to be doing it more this season, its so bloodying annoying.

[Jeremy]

11 hours ago, redder freak said:

Just seen the Ings goal. What a brilliant chip to win the game. Priceless.

Been away all day and just had the chance to read this thread after seeing the extended highlights. This post is absolutely right; it implies this was a deserved win, not some lucky result following an own goal, dubious penalty or scuffed shot that wrong-footed the keeper. The goal was crafted by arguably the two most consistent players in the EPL managed by one of the best (genuine?) managers in top level football at the moment. The game was won fairly by the better side on the night.

I'm just annoyed I didn't get my usual $10 bet in for the win😒.

 

[st alex]

Thought Valery was good when he came on although he often looks like he's holding back slightly and needs a bit more belief in himself. Nice to see him in a more attacking position in midfield as his defensive qualities aren't great.

Great result though, especially given how many regular senior players were out and how many youngsters we had in there.

[OldNick]

Forster oh dear, he made the defence nervous with his first kick of the game. He nearly got caught in possession and then he kept punching the ball instead of catching ata time when we needed a calm period. I know he is lacking in confidence but I really found him fraying my nerves.

Jack Stephens did some brilliant blocks but he is so casual with his passing at times and gives the ball away in dangerous positions.

KWP superb again

Diallo looked so comfortable

Tella a little lost and to my mind Ndulu(?) is going to be the better player. He was strong and looked very mobile and quite strong.

Good to see Valery back and he calmed things down for us.

Even with those minor negatives it was a superb performance and we should be proud of our club and team.

Final thing will they still be mentioning the Leicester score in 20 years time, the commentators dont mention Liverpools 7-2 at Villa every time they play

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Yeh this is the point, in any fair and objective world that is never a pen, that is Mane looking for a pen, I am not even sure JWP touched him at all with his legs it looked like basically a shoulder on shoulder challenge that should have never knocked a strong player like Mane over, but of course he is looking for a pen.

The problem is the biased refs give those things to the big clubs, so their fans see that all the time and think they are getting done out of a pen. 

The Liverpool v Fulham game was a classic example IMO. Fulham completely outplayed Liverpool and deserved to win IMO, Fabinho goes through a player standing foot trying to challenge the ball, Ref doesn't give a pen and VAR doesn't over turn it. 

What does Klopp moan about? The tiniest of hands on the back of Salah in the build up to Liverpool's goal where Salah (as usual) goes down like he has been shot. 

They need to start dishing out yellows for these dives and going down to easily, then when some of these players start getting bans they might change their behaviour. 

 

He literally tripped over his own feet, it was an absurd penalty. 

The problem is the refs are bad and give the big clubs huge benefit of the doubt and then VAR, likely with another biased ref operating it, so they won't over rule it as an 'obvious mistake'. 

Pogba’s left arm was stretched out behind him fending off the Villa player which meant that Pogba’s body was twisted as he was running. That’s why he got himself tangled in his own feet. Never a penalty.

[Saint_Jonny]

5 hours ago, Scallysaint said:

An added bonus was the youngsters that started and the ones that came on all did really well. Not that that was mentioned by the experts in the studio

This can't be right. Burnley's new American overlords said that the Southampton academy has been "destroyed"? You must be seeing things.

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That's not a new thing this season. There was a game last season (forget which one) where we conceded as a result of exactly that, and there were numerous other times he did it and got away with it.

Wolves away and Bournemouth at home (3-3) the year before he was guilty of something similar... I think.

[itchen]

27 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Wolves away and Bournemouth at home (3-3) the year before he was guilty of something similar... I think.

On the other hand, we look so much better with him in the side: either with him winning the ball back, or driving forwards or sideways to create something.  Sometimes it doesn't work out but I'd much rather see him willing to take the risk than not. Does any player have success every time they try something? 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, itchen said:

On the other hand, we look so much better with him in the side: either with him winning the ball back, or driving forwards or sideways to create something.  Sometimes it doesn't work out but I'd much rather see him willing to take the risk than not. Does any player have success every time they try something? 

Don't get me wrong, I love him as a player and we're definitely better with him in the side. I just recall there have been a few instances of what Sheaf mentioned.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Pogba’s left arm was stretched out behind him fending off the Villa player which meant that Pogba’s body was twisted as he was running. That’s why he got himself tangled in his own feet. Never a penalty.

Motd showed multiple replays which pinpointed a slight touch on Pogba's left boot which caused his back leg to hit his right leg and fall over . Now was it a penalty ie accidental touch of feet or an intentional foul ? I say no penalty.

Re Klopp : he has consistantly defended Salah going down in the penalty area like a sack of spuds with even the slightest touch so what goes around comes around.

[Convict Colony]

great article on our tactics - worth a read https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/01/05/tactical-secrets-behing-southamptons-stunning-league-campaign/

[Lord Duckhunter]

Considering the side we ended the game with, that was an unbelievable result. Truly unbelievable. Tactically we were spot on, the nipper replacing OR was excellent and all the “senior” players were exceptional. The highlight was the nippers coming in/on and doing such a great job. They all put in a performance that will remain long in the memory.

Ralph a bit cringey at the end, like a Klopp fan boy, but other than that a great evening. 

[Toadhall Saint]

15 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

great article on our tactics - worth a read https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/01/05/tactical-secrets-behing-southamptons-stunning-league-campaign/

Thanks for posting much appreciated 

[Turkish]

Surprisingly most Liverpool fans i've spoken to today have been gracious in defeat, a couple moaned about the penalties but generally all said we played and defended very well and they were worried about out goal threat, felt we looked dangerous going forward. I was surprised at the response. 

[saintquin]

 

I'll take that! 

 

[saintjimbo83]

Immense performance last night. Only saints fans will know that we had more first team players out yesterday than Liverpool, but this will not make the national news and instead focus on Liverpool.

Diallo MOM for me, but Stephens and KWP were superb. I've given Bertrand a but of stick recently, but he kept Salah quiet all evening.

If Ings had have made that cross to Walcott mid way through the first half, then with that build up play it would be have been the goal of the season. So impressed with how calm we are in the build up and then increase the intensity to attack.

So pleased for Ralph too. Up the saints. 

[OldNick]

Is it just me or is the site really slow and you cant go to other sections easily?

[Convict Colony]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

Is it just me or is the site really slow and you cant go to other sections easily?

Yeah had this for the last few days

[OldNick]

Just now, Convict Colony said:

Yeah had this for the last few days

Just when you want it flowing the site cant cope. Shame really

[Wes Tender]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Armstrong has this annoying habit this season of dribbling into the centre circle trying to beat 3 players and losing it, not sure if Ralph has asked him to cut inside and try and open up his options but it is bloody annoying seeing him lose it and the oppo launch an attack.

 

If Armstrong has tied up 3 players and then loses the ball, then there are three fewer players available for the counter attack. In any event, it is usually far further upfield that Armstrong receives the attention of defenders, as he is more likely to pass the ball in the middle of the park, only running forward with the ball when there is a clear path open ahead. Walcott is just as likely to run at the defence and find himself closed down. However, I am pleased that both of them do carry a real threat to defences because of what they bring to the attack by getting the ball into the box, or behind the defence, drawing defenders towards them so clearing holes that Ings or Adams can exploit. I think that Armstrong suffered some lingering affects of the Chinese virus for a few matches, but last night he was a major contributor to our win.

[OldNick]

I couldnt get on this morning and so went and looked at the Ugly Inside, that took 30 seconds, how you navigate that site is a task.

[Raging Bull]

3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Yeah had this for the last few days

Not only that, but I went through some security stuff the other day, only to realise that someone on the dark web had gotten hold of a few of my passwords. Including to this site. 
 

I have a feeling that this site has a few more issues than being slower than Rusiak 

[ant]

Just 3 goals conceded from the start of December to now, covering 7 matches.

Yes, we've had spells of being a bit goal-shy throughout that time, but mightily impressive considering we've faced City and Liverpool.

Rest of the month doesn't look so initimidating now.

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

If Armstrong has tied up 3 players and then loses the ball, then there are three fewer players available for the counter attack. In any event, it is usually far further upfield that Armstrong receives the attention of defenders, as he is more likely to pass the ball in the middle of the park, only running forward with the ball when there is a clear path open ahead. Walcott is just as likely to run at the defence and find himself closed down. However, I am pleased that both of them do carry a real threat to defences because of what they bring to the attack by getting the ball into the box, or behind the defence, drawing defenders towards them so clearing holes that Ings or Adams can exploit. I think that Armstrong suffered some lingering affects of the Chinese virus for a few matches, but last night he was a major contributor to our win.

I agree with this.

Armstrong does lose the ball more often than say Prowse, but you have to have players willing to drive into open spaces. His willingness to push into even narrow spaces with the ball can be a real asset, it forces defenders to work hard and stay honest, he drags players to him which creates openings. Yes, often it leads to nothing, and it can look clumsy, but you have to take chances now and then otherwise everything is played out in front of back fours and we become predictable and easy to defend against. What's key here is how often he makes these runs yet still has energy to chase back.

Theo is a similar type of player. It can be frustrating seeing these two seemingly trying to take one too many on, but there is room in our side for some direct runners that take chances. I see these players as brave.

Perhaps not the time or place, but Lemina also showed some bravery when keeping the ball too long looking for someone to be open (which cost him and us in a couple of games). It is a fine line. Personally, I'd prefer to see us take these chances and get caught now and then if it means we are more dangerous and attacking side that is good to watch.

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, ant said:

Just 3 goals conceded from the start of December to now, covering 7 matches.

Yes, we've had spells of being a bit goal-shy throughout that time, but mightily impressive considering we've faced City and Liverpool.

Rest of the month doesn't look so initimidating now.

Very interesting game against Leicester coming up. They are full of confidence, but won't dominate as much as Liverpool did second half. Getting the balance right between attack and defence is crucial. Not sure we have cracked that yet, but the Foxes game will be a better gauge.

[cloggy saint]

30 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

I think that Armstrong suffered some lingering affects of the Chinese Virus for a few matches

Have a word with yourself, idiot.

[Convict Colony]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

I agree with this.

Armstrong does lose the ball more often than say Prowse, but you have to have players willing to drive into open spaces. His willingness to push into even narrow spaces with the ball can be a real asset, it forces defenders to work hard and stay honest, he drags players to him which creates openings. Yes, often it leads to nothing, and it can look clumsy, but you have to take chances now and then otherwise everything is played out in front of back fours and we become predictable and easy to defend against. What's key here is how often he makes these runs yet still has energy to chase back.

Theo is a similar type of player. It can be frustrating seeing these two seemingly trying to take one too many on, but there is room in our side for some direct runners that take chances. I see these players as brave.

Perhaps not the time or place, but Lemina also showed some bravery when keeping the ball too long looking for someone to be open (which cost him and us in a couple of games). It is a fine line. Personally, I'd prefer to see us take these chances and get caught now and then if it means we are more dangerous and attacking side that is good to watch.

Agree with you on the taking a man on etc and dont mind him losing it but its where he loses it that is frustrating, the centre circle is never ideal but hey if this is all part of our learning then hopefully we move through this phase quickly

[Sheaf Saint]

12 minutes ago, Chez said:

I agree with this.

Armstrong does lose the ball more often than say Prowse, but you have to have players willing to drive into open spaces. His willingness to push into even narrow spaces with the ball can be a real asset, it forces defenders to work hard and stay honest, he drags players to him which creates openings.

 

This is all well and good in the attacking third, but doing it in your own half when you've only just turned over the ball and there are already opposing attackers in a forward position waiting to receive it is suicidal, and immediately puts the defence under intense pressure. 

He just needs to be a little smarter in deciding when to attempt it.

[BallBoy]

Well it's past lunchtime the next day and guess what - we still won! We don't always win against the big boys but it's great when we do. Love it that Ralph has this ability to pull out the occasional big result to supplement wins against the lesser teams. It is a recipe for our success.

Ralph is getting a lot of publicity for his "tears". Some praising his commitment and others just mocking to the point of suggesting he "man up".

I don't think it was so much emotion as nervous exhaustion. He reflected what we all felt at that moment and that's one of the reasons I love him. He really identifies with the fans here. 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

This is all well and good in the attacking third, but doing it in your own half when you've only just turned over the ball and there are already opposing attackers in a forward position waiting to receive it is suicidal, and immediately puts the defence under intense pressure. 

He just needs to be a little smarter in deciding when to attempt it.

Fair point, and just like you I will probably be bemoaning him when he does it, but often here aren't brilliant alternatives, so the ball will likely be turned over anyway.  I would also say that its a lot easier to determine when to do it not do it from up in the stand/sofa.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

5 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

what a load of crap. its great to win but if anything, Walcott could have been sent off, Stephens handball in the first few weeks would have been given and never saw Mane dive in this game, not penalties but contact. Thiago's further fouls didn't warrant a second yellow. 

Don't be Garth Crooks, be objective. 

Both of Mane's penalty appeals were dives where he threw out his arms before falling over - it is the tell tale sign that refs look for. Watch them both again - clear as day. 

Thiago had at least 3 warnings and should have be yellowed for the foul on Djenepo

I wasnt commenting on us, just responding to the Scousers view that they were somehow cheated

[Professor]

In a post-match interview with a Sky reporter, Klopp claimed that Mane is not "a diver".  He went on to claim that Mane falling over when prevented by KWP from getting in a shot, or crossing the ball, would have resulted in a penalty for "any other team".   Klopp was letting then mask slip, showing that behind it there's a standard, dishonest moaning complainer.  But he also showed that either he doesn't know Mane the player as well as he should, or he was simply lying.  In that incident, it is my opinion that Mane played the old trick of trailing a leg in order to make contact with the defender, and when he achieved the contact he threw himself to the ground.  If Klopp had never seen Mane do that before then I can only suggest he hadn't been paying attention on the training ground when that  tactic was being practiced.  

This leads onto another which is a pet subject of mine, that the penalty is too big a reward, even for a genuine foul, if it occurs where there is no prospect of a goal-scoring opportunity. On this occasion, KWP had prevented Mane getting in a shot or a cross so that with the ball running our of play the only way to get a shot on goal was if the referee awarded a penalty.  As KWP wasn't tackling, the only chance of a penalty was from simulation.  It's time the authorities changed the rules to remove this incentive to cheat and that cheating is severely punished.  At the moment, managers pretend in public that it's not happening or that it's only the other team that cheats, when they know full well that is not true. 

[saintquin]

43 minutes ago, Professor said:

In a post-match interview with a Sky reporter, Klopp claimed that Mane is not "a diver".  He went on to claim that Mane falling over when prevented by KWP from getting in a shot, or crossing the ball, would have resulted in a penalty for "any other team".   Klopp was letting then mask slip, showing that behind it there's a standard, dishonest moaning complainer.  But he also showed that either he doesn't know Mane the player as well as he should, or he was simply lying.  In that incident, it is my opinion that Mane played the old trick of trailing a leg in order to make contact with the defender, and when he achieved the contact he threw himself to the ground.  If Klopp had never seen Mane do that before then I can only suggest he hadn't been paying attention on the training ground when that  tactic was being practiced.  

This leads onto another which is a pet subject of mine, that the penalty is too big a reward, even for a genuine foul, if it occurs where there is no prospect of a goal-scoring opportunity. On this occasion, KWP had prevented Mane getting in a shot or a cross so that with the ball running our of play the only way to get a shot on goal was if the referee awarded a penalty.  As KWP wasn't tackling, the only chance of a penalty was from simulation.  It's time the authorities changed the rules to remove this incentive to cheat and that cheating is severely punished.  At the moment, managers pretend in public that it's not happening or that it's only the other team that cheats, when they know full well that is not true. 

Surely preventing a cross is preventing the chance of a goal scoring opportunity.

It wasn't a penalty anyway as KWP did not make him fall over or stop him from getting to the ball!

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, saintquin said:

Surely preventing a cross is preventing the chance of a goal scoring opportunity.

It wasn't a penalty anyway as KWP did not make him fall over or stop him from getting to the ball!

I usually dislike Carragher but I thought he was very fair post match, he said it was a pen and showed why. It showed that KWP placed his right foot to the side of Sadio and did not touch him

[DT]

16 hours ago, Shroppie said:

They've got a glimpse of how most teams feel against them most weeks

To be fair that Walcott tackle was an absolute horror and I was waiting in trepidation when the ball clearly hit Stephens' arm for a pen (although it would have been harsh). Mane just dived. And so did Salah. Bunch of cheats. Glad to have beaten them and stopped all the sentimental Marsden montages (not not Chris)

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, DT said:

To be fair that Walcott tackle was an absolute horror and I was waiting in trepidation when the ball clearly hit Stephens' arm for a pen (although it would have been harsh). Mane just dived. And so did Salah. Bunch of cheats. Glad to have beaten them and stopped all the sentimental Marsden montages (not not Chris)

I also thought that Walcotts tackle may have had a further closer look. There again it was biter bit as that was a classic Milner tackle he had the pleasure of receiving

[DT]

2 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I usually dislike Carragher but I thought he was very fair post match, he said it was a pen and showed why. It showed that KWP placed his right foot to the side of Sadio and did not touch him

Didn't like him much when he said Liverpool were 'a much better team than Southampton'. And was pretty irksome how much of the debate is always about the 'crisis' that is befalling any 'big' team we have the temerity to beat. Pundits perpetuate the big six and are forever talking about them failing rather than the excellent tactics and displays we and other teams produce. It's a right pain.

[Totton Saint]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

great article on our tactics - worth a read https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/01/05/tactical-secrets-behing-southamptons-stunning-league-campaign/

Very good match report on Mail onLine

[Sheaf Saint]

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Didn't like him much when he said Liverpool were 'a much better team than Southampton'. And was pretty irksome how much of the debate is always about the 'crisis' that is befalling any 'big' team we have the temerity to beat. Pundits perpetuate the big six and are forever talking about them failing rather than the excellent tactics and displays we and other teams produce. It's a right pain.

My big gripe with him (other than the ridiculous amount of time he spent forensically analysing how poorly Liverpool defended the FK that led to our goal) was the way he talked about us being lucky to have Danny Ings. The way he said it was so dismissive, as if a player of his calibre would never normally want to come to such a lowly club like us. It was very disrespectful.

[Totton Saint]

34 minutes ago, DT said:

Didn't like him much when he said Liverpool were 'a much better team than Southampton'. And was pretty irksome how much of the debate is always about the 'crisis' that is befalling any 'big' team we have the temerity to beat. Pundits perpetuate the big six and are forever talking about them failing rather than the excellent tactics and displays we and other teams produce. It's a right pain.

Could not have put it better myself. The Telegraph had a bigger article about Spurs next game than the report of us beating Liverpool yesterday!

[DT]

Just now, OldNick said:

I also thought that Walcotts tackle may have had a further closer look. There again it was biter bit as that was a classic Milner tackle he had the pleasure of receiving

I think Walcott is a bit like a red setter. Quick but a bit highly strung and wild. Occasionally this allows him

 

20 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

My big gripe with him (other than the ridiculous amount of time he spent forensically analysing how poorly Liverpool defended the FK that led to our goal) was the way he talked about us being lucky to have Danny Ings. The way he said it was so dismissive, as if a player of his calibre would never normally want to come to such a lowly club like us. It was very disrespectful.

Ince did the same in his 'vewy, vewy' weird way of talking. As if lowly Southampton are only a stepping stone. Convincing Ralf to stay will be one way of making this something that might become rarer in the future. That and teams like Aston Villa and Leicester continuing their upward rise too. 

[Lighthouse]

Could be worse, on MotD after this fixture last season they literally didn’t mention Saints in their ‘analysis’. It was just five minutes of the pundits going on about how amazing the team spirit is and what it’s like to be in that Liverpool dressing room.

[Chris cooper]

17 hours ago, saints1988 said:

Always like the way Andre Marinner referees. Let’s the game flow and normally gets it right.

He was dire for us in the league cup final against manure..gave them everything!.. but tbf to him he didn’t fall for the dippers antics last night ! Stood up IMO 👍🏻