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Position that you would most want to improve in the starting XI


Useful Idiot
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For me it's attacking midfield, which is probably the last place we will improve as we have four first team players who want to play in the two 'number 10' positions that Ralph likes to use.

Problem is, we don't really get that much creativity from the players we do have who can play there. Theo is our best option; his movement is clever, he's pretty quick off the mark, he works hard and he's good on the ball. He's set up 2 goals in 11 matches. Small sample size so he might not keep up that level of performance, but it indicates a very promising start.

Armstrong does a job there and is pretty solid without being spectacular. He's managed to set up 7 goals in 72 appearances.

Redmond and Djenepo are both quite inconsistent and probably more suited to playing as traditional wingers.

Redmond, 12 assists in 147 matches for us.

Djenepo's managed 2 in 30. Still early days so he might improve, but I've not seen anything that would suggest he's going to become a regular creative force for the team. He seems more likely to win us a couple of games a season with the occasional bit of magic rather than carving out chances with clever passing.

None of the above players is regularly able to create high probability goal scoring chances the way that Tadic could, and I think we really miss that when trying to break teams down.

Tadic managed 27 assists in 134 Saints appearances.

Just to fill in the other players who have played for us regularly in midfield, Ward-Prowse 25 in 247. Steven Davis 17 in 193. Gaston Ramirez 7 in 47. Lallana 11 in 68.

 

All statistics are pulled from www.premierleague.com

Edited by Useful Idiot
removed a rogue apostrophie
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I think LB. With an aging Bertie on that side we look really unbalanced. If we had a LB making the kind of runs KWP does, overlapping and linking up we’d have way more options and be less predictable for the opponents. 

At present they know that the Bertie & Redmond/Djenepo combination aren’t going to amount to much so they focus more on KWP. 

Edited by OttawaSaint
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1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

I think LB. With an aging Bertie on that side we look really unbalanced. If we had a LB making the kind of runs KWP does, overlapping and linking up we’d have way more options and be less predictable for the opponents. 

At present they know that the Bertie & Redmond/Djenepo combination aren’t going to amount to much so they focus more on KWP. 

I don't think Bertrand is the problem--it's the lack of a consistent player in front of him, who he has an understanding with. Back when Redmond was a consistent starter, the two of them had a good understanding, and most of the effective wing-play went down the left. Bertrand is inhibited by the lack of am effective player in front of him.

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LB for me too. We've looked dreadful there most of the season. Bertrand just doesn't get forward like he has in the past. On the other side, KWP brings the ball into midfield, runs with it between the lines, overlaps, underlaps, and is generally an attacking outlet. Bertrand popped up in the inside left position once yesterday, rarely got to the byline, barely runs with the ball. He's been a fantastic signing for us, but KWP on the right brings so much more to the team and has shown that we need more at LB. 

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I was thinking about this last night. Our 4 all have strengths but none really stand out. I think Moussa has the ability to do stuff that wins games on his own but in other ways is a liability. Armstrong is my first choice in that position. If any two were in form at the same time we would be a real threat. 

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6 hours ago, Hamilton Saint said:

I don't think Bertrand is the problem--it's the lack of a consistent player in front of him, who he has an understanding with. Back when Redmond was a consistent starter, the two of them had a good understanding, and most of the effective wing-play went down the left. Bertrand is inhibited by the lack of am effective player in front of him.

I think Bertrand is at least part of the problem. Nothing against him, maybe he’s just well into the twilight of his career 

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If I can only pick one position it would be LB. Not that Bertrand is a bad or weak player but because he isn't dynamic enough for this system. Most of our good stuff comes down the right and KWP is far more attacking whilst also defending well. If allowed to improve another position it would be the left-sided player of the 2 behind Ings and Adams, and I would want a left-footer. 

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One position, LB, simple. Ralph obviously thinks so too, hence our only probable transfer target. Bertrand has lost his dynamism going forward, and he is so slow that defensively he now gets caught out regularly. Coupled with average left sided AM, we have become ineffective on the left side. 

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If we had a left side going forward like we do a right side then we’d be a very dangerous team. I guess for balance though you can’t have both full back piling forward all the time. However the performances of Walker Peters and the running of Walcott just show our left side to be a bit pedestrian in comparisons. Bertrand hasn’t become a bad player over night, it’s that Walker Peters is the best right back we’ve had since Clyne. 

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7 hours ago, Hamilton Saint said:

I don't think Bertrand is the problem--it's the lack of a consistent player in front of him, who he has an understanding with. Back when Redmond was a consistent starter, the two of them had a good understanding, and most of the effective wing-play went down the left. Bertrand is inhibited by the lack of am effective player in front of him.

I think he is certainly part of the problem. He doesn't seem to be enjoying his football at all.  He's constantly snarling at refs when decisions go against him.  He's slow to get forward and glacially slow when taking throw-ins that normally end up with the opposition anyway. And there are so many times he ignores the run of the winger in front of him and holds up play, eventually passing backwards.  Several times yesterday, Djenepo passed to Bertrand and ran on expecting a swift return only for Bertrand to stand on the ball, think for a while and then pass it back.

I don't know why this has happened (age? change of attitude?) But he's not the player he was and this is being cruelly highlighted by KWP on the other side.

 

 

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I think Bertrand needs replacing. It seems he can only play well when we have an in form Redmond, who is the most inconsistent player in our squad. KWP seems to play at the same level irrespective of who plays in front of him.

If KWP could have a word word with his best mate Dele Ali, I think he would be a great loan in the wide no 10 roles in our system. That won't happen though, so we should go all out for Brandon Williams IMO.

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Tadic was my favourite Saints player while he was at the club. I completely respect his decision to move on, though. He deserved the chance to win trophies and play in European competition regularly (and not get kicked to bits when shielding the ball and have the refs do nothing about it).

I think he was consistently in the top ten players for chance creation every year he was in the prem (and regularly in the top 5), which is really impressive when you think about it.

I don't think Bertrand is that bad to be honest. It's more that the options in front of him are out of form or lack understanding with him. We definitely need another left back because Ralph doesn't think Vokins is up to the job, but I expect that it will be someone who can act as backup and maybe challenge/replace Bertrand over the next couple of seasons rather than a player who will take his spot immediately.

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am going to say 3 positions.

Right CB and LB and LW purely cos I want to see the right CB pinging crosses over to that side to launch attacks like Jan and Jack have been doing to Theo/Armstrong/KWP.

We have no balance on the wings, right hand side is carrying the workload, the left side needs to step up.

Edit - are both Salisu and Jan left footed or can Jan play on the right CB ?

Edited by Convict Colony
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A number 10 type/Redmond replacement who is able to play on the left would be my choice.  
 

Another goal scoring striker as back up to Ings would also be nice.  Good luck in finding one happy to come in as back-up though.

Edited by sambosa75
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I’ll go with the flow and agree on LB but outside the starting XI I think striker would be our next priority. No team in the top two divisions should be starting Shane Long because of one injured player and there remain serious doubts about MO’s attitude. A more physical Pellè/Lambert type would be useful when teams defend deep.

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Positions we don't really need anyone immediately: GK, RB, CB, CM.

Then:

LB: We have an ageing Bertrand, then a seemingly untrusted Bertrand. Considering the lack of a right back back up too, we need a versatile full back to challenge both sides.

AM: We have options, but nobody that is consistent. It says something that the best AM we have had this season is Walcott, who was brought in as cover/competition.

Str: Again strength in depth is the issue here. Ings has had a few knocks lately and we miss him when he's gone. Adams has improved and I'm so impressed by his work rate but he's far from a natural finisher. Then we have Long, Obafemi and N'Lundulu, or as we know them, Crap, Untrusted and Untested. Even Walcott has played up front instead of those 3.

 

Will we bring in three players in January? No. I suspect we will limp on with the attacking department we already have. I reckon the only player we will bring in will be a full back with versatility. Brandon Williams is perfect if we can do a deal.

 

If we want to push for top 6 though, a creative AM at least would be a great addition.

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17 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Ryan has been immense for us, through thick and thin. We need cover and an eye to the future at left back. Romain Perraud at Brest is eye catching, loads of potential and at a price we could afford. 

I’d prefer us to start looking at ready made British based players, maybe someone who has lost their way.  Buying from Europe is more of a long game while you wait for them to adapt, if they ever do. 

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1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I’d prefer us to start looking at ready made British based players, maybe someone who has lost their way.  Buying from Europe is more of a long game while you wait for them to adapt, if they ever do. 

Has worked with McCarthy, Bertrand, KWP, Romeu, Walcott, Ings and Adams from the Championship. Shows there's occasionally a gem not getting much game time at one of the bigger, talent hoarder clubs.

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3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Ryan has been immense for us, through thick and thin. We need cover and an eye to the future at left back. Romain Perraud at Brest is eye catching, loads of potential and at a price we could afford. 

Would he qualify for enough points under the new Brexit regime?

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Left back - a starter to replace Bertrand who despite being a great servant to the club is now past his sell-by date. He is not linking well with ANY of the left sided attacking midfielders and consequently the balance of the team is poor. Need to contrast how effective KWP has been since embedding himself in Ralph’s system.

If there is such a player within our grasp, he would be 21-26 years old, experienced in a top flight league, definitely a left sided player with the potential ability to switch to RWB if the need arose, proven ability to drive forward and get back quickly to defend counter attacks. All of which sounds very obvious, but good LWB’s are hard to find or cost a fortune, so not holding out much hope. Loan to buy seems to be the best hope of getting the player required.

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On 30/12/2020 at 14:37, egg said:

Indeed. It still staggers me how many people didn't rate him. Unfathomable. In this team he'd be immense. 

Staggers me how people think he was Lionel Messi and never underperformed.

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On his day Tadic was sublime, probably the best touch, &  weight of pass, since Bally. Like Bally, he caressed the ball & played little angled passes perfectly weighted. But as i said, on his day. Unfortunately, his day didn’t come round as much as it should of done,  and he was inconsistent and poor on too many days. At his best, he’d have had a field day in Ralph’s set up, at his worst he wouldn’t get a game. 
 

The Tadic discussion is relevant to this thread because that’s what we lack, whether it’s a traditional 10 or a Tadic or Lallana coming in from wide, we lack a bit of creativity in the final third. We’re ok when we win the ball back quickly, but when the opposition are set, lack a bit of guile in central positions. 

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33 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

On his day Tadic was sublime, probably the best touch, &  weight of pass, since Bally. Like Bally, he caressed the ball & played little angled passes perfectly weighted. But as i said, on his day. Unfortunately, his day didn’t come round as much as it should of done,  and he was inconsistent and poor on too many days. At his best, he’d have had a field day in Ralph’s set up, at his worst he wouldn’t get a game. 
 

The Tadic discussion is relevant to this thread because that’s what we lack, whether it’s a traditional 10 or a Tadic or Lallana coming in from wide, we lack a bit of creativity in the final third. We’re ok when we win the ball back quickly, but when the opposition are set, lack a bit of guile in central positions. 

Exactly. I liked Tadic but the notion that he was a consistent creative playmaker for us just isn’t true. Fans that think any criticism of him was because we don’t understand the game is laughable.

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So, I would imagine a left side CAM to play off of Ings was the obvious choice, but I expect Ralph wants to keep trying Redmond or Djeneppo. I still wouldn’t be surprised if Bertrand signs a new contract and we also look at adding more game time for Vokins next season.  But for sure, it doesn’t appear to be working down that side which makes us predictable down the right.

I wondered if he will actually see about Eloynoussi next season after his spell in Scotland, not sure if him boasting his confidence will work out after the disaster of Pellegrini and Hughes (think he was there with Hughes, anyhow).

Btw - ive been lurking for a few years on here viewing, so thought I’d give it a go...

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10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Exactly. I liked Tadic but the notion that he was a consistent creative playmaker for us just isn’t true. Fans that think any criticism of him was because we don’t understand the game is laughable.

Nobody - me included - said he was consistent. The point, as Duck man said, is that on his day he would have been immense in this team. Tadic had critics that didn't rate him as a footballer. That is ridiculous. Your criticism of him wasn't clear whether your issue was ability or consistency. 

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10 minutes ago, egg said:

Nobody - me included - said he was consistent. The point, as Duck man said, is that on his day he would have been immense in this team. Tadic had critics that didn't rate him as a footballer. That is ridiculous. Your criticism of him wasn't clear whether your issue was ability or consistency. 

Totally agree, Tadic was outstanding and had to play in one of the most boring teams with Puel and Hughes I think I have ever witnessed.  If Ralph was in charge back then, he would be up there with De Bruyne for assists each season, especially with Ings.  I know people used to say lots about Gabbiadini, and the runs he used to make, and that Tadic couldn’t find him. I never quite agreed with that, and that many Gabs just wasnt as good as we’d hoped, and his return to Italy hasn’t exactly been prolific.

Tadic in this set up would be awesome, imo, although a mute point.  Main thing is, we haven’t really replaced that creativity in the team.  Boufal was the obvious possibility, but his inconsistency just didnt suit Ralph’s tactics at all.

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