Saints 0 v Man City 1 Autopsy

[Secret Site Agent]

Well that is that,played well, but still lost and Danny.......what a worry

[beatlesaint]

Thought we were worth a point there to be honest.

Great effort from the players. I will say however I can see why Redmond is limited to sub appearances at the moment.

[Saint Matty 76]

Another good performance, onto Fulham and West Ham now which are completely winnable.

Shame about Danny but Walcott showed enough today to make me confident he can step up again. 

[S-Clarke]

I don't have any real complaints with the performance today, we took the game to them for the most part - but we just lacked the real finish/quality at the top end, which was highlighted by the fact we had two untried kids up top in the end.

Bit more quality/bit more depth in the squad and we'd have probably got something, as the general shape and play of the team tactically was spot on. But the squad size was always going to hit us, it's unsustainable for us to be where we are with our squad - just got to be realistic about it.

Frustrating because we had City, we were playing them excellently, but we had no quality at the sharp end to finish it.

Vestergaard was excellent, but so was KWP - both quality down the right side (in terms of pinging the balls, and then KWP for getting down there all game).

Redmond had a nightmare, dreadful. Moussa not much better either. I'd start looking for another wide player tbh.

Edited 19 December, 2020 by S-Clarke

[trousers]

If Ings is laid off for a few more games, I guess the only silver lining is that it'll put more doubt in the mind of potential suitors... Clutching at straws I know...

[Sheaf Saint]

Gutted. Really took the game to them but the gulf in quality was evident.

Losing Ings is a massive blow. When Adams went off and we had Tella and Nlundulu up front we just lost any cutting edge in attack. Not the kind of game to be blooding these player in.

City will be very relieved they held on for the win. Not often you see them parking the bus and time wasting. We should take heart from that.

Walcott was excellent and I would like to see him keep his place there instead of Armstrong.

Vestergaard was immense again and deserved his MOTM award.

Another excellent game for KWP as well.

Getting JWP and Romeu booked in the first half maybe cost us a little in aggression in the second.

Djenepo and Redmond both very poor today.

Ref - Mike Dean innit. How he didn't book Gundogan for that cynical foul on Walcott was disgraceful. Then a minute later couldn't wait to get the card out for JWP. Terrible display from him today.

Edited 19 December, 2020 by Sheaf Saint

[saintwbu]

Ref was fucking horrible - to be expected against a big side but still as annoying every time. 

[Edmonton Saint]

Good performance, but I don't agree Tella for Ings was a good move. Tella is 21 now and has to start showing something soon, we basically struggled to create good chances or test their keeper all day. Squad is quite thin really, and maybe we should have given Diallo a run for Romeu today after the booking.

[qwertyell]

Can't grumble - we were very good; miles better than we were in beating City last season. That's the way it goes.

As at Arsenal, there's a wee bit lack of quality in the final third that makes it hard for us to chase a game, but you can't fault the lads for effort.

Interesting to see how we approach this next stint without Ings. Will Walcott go back up top, even though he's really started to shine out wide in the last few games? Not sure Tella is close to being at this level.

Redmond had a pretty shitty cameo today, but it's hard to single anyone out for a poor performance - we were decent out there. Vestergaard, Walker-Peters, Walcott probably the stand outs.

Rest up, get ready for Fulham. If we can play at this level consistently, we'll get a lot more points this season.

Merry Christmas folks.

[Katalinic]

Worth a point and not too down after that. Left side needs an upgrade in the summer/January.

 

[jasonb]

Gah! Stood up from the couch at 75 mins. I felt we were worthy of a point. Sadly, lacking the quality without Ings. 

Beaten by a bit of quality which these top 6 teams have of course. 

 

Unlucky saints. Hope Ings isn't too bad. He seemed to be suggesting it wasnt anything too bad when walking down the tunnel. 

[hackedoff]

Needed Djenepo or Redmond to have a decent game,sadly both rarely do.

[Mr X]

Happy with the overall performance and effort, bar the one piece of class from city there wasn't a lot between us, if anything we deserved a point, didn't threaten the Goal enough though 

[stknowle]

Deserved a point. We took the game to City who were superb on the break. We are mixing it with the best teams in this league. Imagining for a second that we won't get picked apart like last time we dared to compete with the best sides (we will get picked apart, we all know it) we are on a trajectory that ends in us properly competing to win things next seaon.  Oh, and take a bow Jannick Vestergaard.

[Mowgli]

We can’t win every week but you can get better each week and that is what we were doing.  Feel sorry for Walcott as he would have easily been MOTM if it wasn’t for Vesty who was outstanding.

I was also impressed with crowd (other than the odd moron with mask around the neck..) who were very patient and now seem to understand why we pass back occasionally to keep possession and then look for a way to unlock the defence 

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Ref was fucking horrible - to be expected against a big side but still as annoying every time. 

Big Boy Bias

[OttawaSaint]

Looking ahead I feel we don’t get anywhere near as much out of Bertrand than we do KWP. I think he’s dropped off quite a bit, he ignores his winger, rarely gets any crosses in and is often at fault for goals against. I think we need a better LB and someone better than Walcott/Armstrong/Djenepo/Redmond. Redmond is finished, he’s just not void enough on or off the ball. He killed us when he came on. Djenepo was poor today but had just made his best contribution of the match before making way for Redmond.

[Shanghai Saint]

18 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Thought we were worth a point there to be honest.

Great effort from the players. I will say however I can see why Redmond is limited to sub appearances at the moment.

Nate’s a tough one. Players need to play to develop their form and inevitably, stop start appearances off the bench are going to lead to inconsistent performances. I personally would prefer him over Moussa at present and give him that run in the team as we know he has it in him.

[davefizzy14]

Pleased with the overall performance. We deserved at least a draw. Hoping the injury to Ings isn't too bad. Vestergaard was MOTM for me, he was immense again. Theo and KWP were very good too. It was good to see Tella and N'Lundulu get some minutes too  We move onto the next one on Boxing Day. Enough said about Mike Dean the better! He was awful, gave us next to nothing. Should have booked Cancelo in the first half for a blatant foul on Theo but didn't. But booked Prowsey for his first challenge! You couldn't make it up.

Edited 19 December, 2020 by davefizzy14

[suewhistle]

I'm not as down as I can sometimes be after a game as the performance was generally good: Vest, KWP and Walcott in particular, but Redmond seems to lack all confidence. Djenepo was more of a danger for us, at least he takes on players and gets to the by-line.

I'd echo the comments on the ref: how come their full back didn't get booked for the foul on Walcott who had turned him? The nippers had a difficult game to play in but Tella put in a couple of lovely crosses and they'll feel all the better for being given the chances, and they'll now know a bit more about what is needed at this level.

[OttawaSaint]

Mike Dean MotM. Prevented 2 clear goal scoring opportunities, the difference today...

[Wes Tender]

20 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Walcott was excellent and I would like to see him keep his place there instead of Armstrong.

Walcott was indeed excellent. But we have two wide players, and the one to leave out to allow Armstrong back in is Redmond. He was very poor again today, a sort of poor man's Sterling.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Pleased with the overall performance. We deserved at least a draw. Hoping the injury to Ings isn't too bad. Vestergaard was MOTM for me, he was immense again. We move onto the next one on Boxing Day. Enough said about Mike Dean the better! He was awful, gave us next to nothing. Should have booked Cancelo in the first half for a blatant foul on Theo but didn't. But booked Prowsey for his first challenge! You couldn't make it up.

JWP was  a deserved booking. The problem is that so we’re mayofvtheirs that weren’t booked.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Shanghai Saint said:

Nate’s a tough one. Players need to play to develop their form and inevitably, stop start appearances off the bench are going to lead to inconsistent performances. I personally would prefer him over Moussa at present and give him that run in the team as we know he has it in him.

He obviously didn’t want to impress Pep.

[Jimmy_D]

Guh.

Played well, came up against a decent team, didn’t go our way.

Hopefully Ings won’t be too bad and on to the next one.

[Wade Garrett]

Walcott was superb today.

Poor Nathan Redmond played like the kid with 2 left feet who always got picked last in the school playground.

[gammon cheeks]

Was at the game and deserved a point ........Tella did not do a lot and i thought Bertrand looks a bit laboured ......Shame as Ralph could really do with a bit of investment in Jan as the football we are playing is quality but its the quality of player that is needed a bit more.

[aintforever]

Decent performance, can’t really complain about the result. If Ings has stayed on we probably could have nicked a point.

[Nordic Saint]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Walcott was superb today.

Poor Nathan Redmond played like the kid with 2 left feet who always got picked last in the school playground.

It was a good team performance. We just lacked a cutting edge up front. Redmond fluffed a chance that Sterling would have scored from. That was the difference. Walker-Peters was superb too but Vestergaard stood head and shoulders above them all. He was magnificent. 10/10.  Anyway, I feel less disappointed at the end of this game than I did after we dropped those 2 points at Arsenal. 

[CanadaSaint]

It seems to me that we've fallen in love with our own style. Don't get me wrong - I'm really enjoying it and full of admiration of Ralph for instilling it.

But when there's a game to be won - or tied - in the last ten or fifteen minutes, we need to find a higher sense of urgency. We need to do less turning and recycling, and start looking for more of the higher risk passes and take-ons, especially in the final third.

Still, the club has made massive progress and most of the time we're a joy to watch.

[OttawaSaint]

It seems they knew Ings was having a problem before the game. I know it’s hindsight but what a terrible decision to risk him with so many winnable games coming up. Hamstring, hope it’s minor, we probably won’t see him again until mid-January.

[Teddeer]

The boys put in a great team effort today and just came up short against a side brimming with quality players. I think if Ingsy had not got injured we might well have taken a point at least. City knew they'd been in a game and I'm sure Pep was relieved to get the three points. Think Ralph maybe got the sub wrong when Danny went off - might have been better to stick Theo up top with Adams and bring on Armstrong. Nit-picking really and I guess Tella was raring to have a crack after scoring a few for the second string but he's clearly not ready at this level. We would have comfortably beaten most sides with that level of performance and currently we are not quite there against the big boys but that is understandable.  Big Jan's long range passing was out of this world.

[Chris cooper]

Think Ralph got it wrong today .. Walcott up top for ings redmond then out wide .. tells huffed n puffed couple nice crosses but big game to be blooding the youngsters... lack of depth .. if we had brought Danny welbeck wen had the chance we may have snatched a point... the Viking 💪🏻Was outstanding along with Theo and kwp was 1st class .. 

[badgerx16]

Oh well, at least my Mrs will be in a good mood for our anniversary tomorrow. 😉

[Mowgli]

1 minute ago, Chris cooper said:

Think Ralph got it wrong today .. Walcott up top for ings redmond then out wide .. tells huffed n puffed couple nice crosses but big game to be blooding the youngsters... lack of depth .. if we had brought Danny welbeck wen had the chance we may have snatched a point... the Viking 💪🏻Was outstanding along with Theo and kwp was 1st class .. 

if we had bought Welbeck, Walcott would have gone elsewhere.  No contest for me.

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

It seems they knew Ings was having a problem before the game. I know it’s hindsight but what a terrible decision to risk him with so many winnable games coming up. Hamstring, hope it’s minor, we probably won’t see him again until mid-January.

Yeah I would rather he be fit to face Fulham and West Ham. Like you say hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

[S-Clarke]

14 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

It seems to me that we've fallen in love with our own style. Don't get me wrong - I'm really enjoying it and full of admiration of Ralph for instilling it.

But when there's a game to be won - or tied - in the last ten or fifteen minutes, we need to find a higher sense of urgency. We need to do less turning and recycling, and start looking for more of the higher risk passes and take-ons, especially in the final third.

Still, the club has made massive progress and most of the time we're a joy to watch.

The problem is that we had nothing up top at the end of the game, the movement wasn't there from either of the young lads. Redmond, less said the better.

Theo played well but had tired massively towards the end. We kept recycling as we had no where else to go, the attack was dead by the end unfortunately. And I still say it's better to keep the ball than to try a rushed pass that ends up recycling it back to the opposition.

[The Cat]

Good performance against a team full of obscenely good players. Goes to show how much we have improved that they were wasting time with half an hour to go and went defensive for most of the second half.

Enjoyed being in the stadium again, was a bit strange with so few people. To be honest I was just happy to be there unlike the lad a few rows back who spent most of the game moaning about us playing it around the back. It got so much that I  ended up having a go at him in the second half at which point he shut up only to try to tell me at the end that I should have stayed at home because apparently shouting "get it forward" is the mark of a true fan. Muppet. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

Good performance against a team full of obscenely good players. Goes to show how much we have improved that they were wasting time with half an hour to go and went defensive for most of the second half.

Enjoyed being in the stadium again, was a bit strange with so few people. To be honest I was just happy to be there unlike the lad a few rows back who spent most of the game moaning about us playing it around the back. It got so much that I  ended up having a go at him in the second half at which point he shut up only to try to tell me at the end that I should have stayed at home because apparently shouting "get it forward" is the mark of a true fan. Muppet. 

Ah, that's what we've missed. The infamous 'HIT IT LONG'  ' GET IT IN THE BOX'  'GET IT IN THE MIXER'  'PLAY IT' shouts from the stands. They have no understanding or idea about the game or tactics.

Thankfully, none of those fans will ever be a manager.

[John B]

Good performance but without really top class players we can not compete consistently with the Big City Clubs as our defeats against Spurs Man U Man City show

[OttawaSaint]

VAR can’t work when you have dinosaurs like Dean with the whistle. Old habits die hard. Sterling handled it and he saw it and thought “hit the hand but it’s City, I’ll get crucified if I’m wrong”. But that’s what VAR is for, they can check it and get him off the hook but what they’ve done is give us a system where a dino ref can still cheat but having the obscenely subjective “clear and obvious mistake” rule. Two games and two penalties not given that we’ve seen given to the big teams time and time again.

 

[saint77]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

If Ings is laid off for a few more games, I guess the only silver lining is that it'll put more doubt in the mind of potential suitors... Clutching at straws I know...

Totally agreed 

[CanadaSaint]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The problem is that we had nothing up top at the end of the game, the movement wasn't there from either of the young lads. Redmond, less said the better.

Theo played well but had tired massively towards the end. We kept recycling as we had no where else to go, the attack was dead by the end unfortunately. And I still say it's better to keep the ball than to try a rushed pass that ends up recycling it back to the opposition.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but I wasn't talking just about today. Our style serves us well for the majority of most games, but I think we have a tendency to stick with it in the late stages when we need to find some final-third penetration. Bednarek, in particular, is apt to keep the ball at the back regardless of the score and time remaining, Redmond has lost his zest for taking defenders on, and Bertrand no longer seems as willing to push up. The bright spot is KWP.

This isn't about how we play generally, but how we play when we're chasing a result.

[AlexLaw76]

I thought we were good. Loads of effort and 'nearly' moments, which on another day would have been a goal. However in reality, another game where we do not really test a glory club keeper that much.

I thought Tella was a puzzling sub.  Poor lad offered zero upfront but did put a couple of crosses in towards the end.  Redmond was off the pace when he came on.

Adams decent, Walcott, Romeu, KwP and JwP were all good.  Vestergaard was my MoM.  Good game and brilliant on the ball.

[sadoldgit]

27 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

VAR can’t work when you have dinosaurs like Dean with the whistle. Old habits die hard. Sterling handled it and he saw it and thought “hit the hand but it’s City, I’ll get crucified if I’m wrong”. But that’s what VAR is for, they can check it and get him off the hook but what they’ve done is give us a system where a dino ref can still cheat but having the obscenely subjective “clear and obvious mistake” rule. Two games and two penalties not given that we’ve seen given to the big teams time and time again.

 

I would have been very unhappy if that had been given against us. The ball deflected up and hit his hand. They get given, but wrongly so in my opinion. He wasn’t looking to gain an advantage, it just hit his hand.

[OttawaSaint]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I would have been very unhappy if that had been given against us. The ball deflected up and hit his hand. They get given, but wrongly so in my opinion. He wasn’t looking to gain an advantage, it just hit his hand.

I would have been unhappy too but the big teams get them all the time. 

[Shroppie]

40 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I would have been very unhappy if that had been given against us. The ball deflected up and hit his hand. They get given, but wrongly so in my opinion. He wasn’t looking to gain an advantage, it just hit his hand.

But the rules as changed this season are clear. Arm away from body. Ball hits arm now the sleeve. Penalty. Would have been at the other end.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Man City we’re not at their best but nor were we to be fair. Shame about Ings, but I wanted to see DN on before Tella. Redmond was a waste of time...so inconsistent it’s laughable. Djenepo is not much better and gives a vibe of believing in his own legend. Thought Vestergard and Romeu were superb. It was not a disaster of a performance and I think we deserved a draw.

Overall I’m more disappointed in the slow build up play (that characterises nearly every attack) than the loss itself and for a team that plays 4 2 2 2 we play incredibly wide for large parts of a game, which City exploited. As the season wears on, the better team managers will work out how to keep us boxed in and quiet.

Onwards and errr...downwards probably.

[Baird of the land]

Played well, just lacked a bit of cutting edge or bounce of ball. On another day stones puts the ball into his own net rather than spooning it into a position where Adams can’t score from

walcott played very well as did vestergaard. Really wanted good Redmond to turn up 8nstead we got bad Redmond just when we needed someone to turn the game our way.

losing Danny for an unknown period and Romeu for a game is a worry.

hopefully Diallo can hit the ground running and help us bounce back with a win.

[sydney_saint]

Just finished watching on replay. First thing that needs to be said. I was surprised dean managed to get peps cock out of his mouth to blow full-time. The only decision that went our way was KDB getting booked. Other than that, the assistant on the far side gave us more than the fucking referee. There are two refs I dread when playing a big side. Mike dean and Kevin friend, and dean did not disappoint. I'm a former ref, so I tend to remove bias as much as possible (recogise not fully) but we were short changed today. Give us a Michael Oliver today and we get a penalty. There are many decent refs in this country, they need promotions and chances rather than the same tired guys, who were not even good to begin with. I could rant all day about the referee structure in the uk and it's issues, but Mike dean still officiating at the top level represents everything that's wrong. 

Proud of the lads. A team that probably cost 5x as much as ours was time wasting from the 60th minute. That's all you need to know about the efforts our team put in, and the quality of our football. Sure, we should/could have worked the keeper more. But what I love is that we didn't just defend and hope for something, or grind out a 0-0. We played our football, stuck to our guns. That's all I ever ask and so proud despite defeat.