Things That are Racist

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

It may be those things, but Black Lives Matter, aka BLM, is also a hideous political party with awful ideology. It's obvious that large chunks of the public will see that footy players taking the knee in the name of BLM will link that to the political party and the appalling behaviour in the name of BLM.

The solution in footy is simple. Ditch the knee and the slogan associated with BLM. Revert to kick it out or something similar.

If footy wants to discuss or address race, then let footy have a proper dialogue about any race issues in footy. If its decided that there are any, then discuss how to tackle them. 

The simple solution is to read what the players said.

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

To be fair, they haven't actually said which one of the other options they are supporting if they definitely aren't supporting the political group - perhaps it's the Twitter hashtag as most footballers aren't renowned for being brimming with A levels.....

Any luck finding out what the Black Power salute was supporting if it definitely isn't a political movement?

“We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout.”

Which part of that do you have a problem understanding?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

“We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout.”

Which part of that do you have a problem understanding?

Lol.  That's the FA statement.  It also only mentions 'taking the knee' and not 'black power salutes' which have a political connotation.

 

This one is from the EFL - you know, the league that Millwall and Derby play in - can you show the 'crystal clear' bit about political messages in this one?

https://www.efl.com/news/2020/june/not-today-or-any-day---efl-clubs-stand-together-against-racism-as-season-resumes/

Quote

The EFL and its Clubs will stand together in solidarity against racial discrimination through a powerful online video campaign to say we don’t and will not accept prejudice, not today or any day.

Players from EFL Clubs returning to play this week will take part in the videos that will be issued across multiple platforms, to demand more from each other; more inclusion, respect and equality and offer support to our colleagues, friends and members of the wider community who continue to be subjected to unacceptable forms of discrimination.

In addition to the video campaign, the League will support players who wish to ‘take a knee’ before or during matches in support of the Black Lives Matter message.

With over 15 million followers across social channels of Clubs and players involved, EFL football provides an important platform to reach fans and the general public and drive positive change through the game and our wider communities.

The EFL believes this time it must be different for all of us, we all want change and we all need to play our part and supporters are encouraged to stand with EFL players to unite and celebrate our diversity and share the videos across their own channels to take action and speak out.

The EFL has a zero-tolerance approach to discrimination and prejudiced behaviour in all forms and stands alongside players, Clubs, the Premier League, the FA, PFA, LMA, PGMOL and all those who oppose discrimination.

We are committed to promoting diversity and providing equal opportunities for all and work will continue to develop processes and procedures to address these issues.

EFL Chairman, Rick Parry, said: “There is no place for racism in society and the EFL is committed to working collaboratively to eradicate prejudiced behaviour at all levels.

“The EFL has a zero-tolerance approach to discrimination but we need to do more to drive change by learning from past mistakes and lead from the front in speaking out against racism and discrimination of any kind.

“Football has the power to unite, and we must come together to challenge discrimination and celebrate diversity in order to improve and change attitudes throughout the game.”

The content will be released prior to games kicking-off.

In addition to this activity taking place, the EFL will also say thank you to NHS key workers at fixtures across this weekend.

Players will wear shirts featuring an ‘NHS Rainbow – Thank You’ emblem and a period of applause will take place prior to all matches from 18-21 June 2020, as Clubs and players collectively display their gratitude for those working on the frontline.

Clubs will also show their continued support through their own media channels and through various in- stadia displays during the selected fixtures.

 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The simple solution is to read what the players said.

I fear the discussion is going over your head. 

[Weston Super Saint]

This one is from the Premier League - pretty wishy washy to be fair, nothing in there about political messages, but does re-inforce the legal obligations within the UK regarding discrimination :

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1680826

Quote

Premier League players from all 20 clubs have made the following statement:

"We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether."

The Premier League stands alongside players, clubs, The FA, EFL, PFA, LMA, PGMOL and all those who oppose discrimination in any form.

The League supports the players’ wish to have their names replaced by "Black Lives Matter" on the back of their shirts for the first 12 matches of the restarted 2019/20 season.

A Black Lives Matter logo will also feature on shirts for the remainder of the season, along with a badge thanking the NHS for their work during the COVID-19 crisis.

In addition, the League will support players who "take a knee" before or during matches.

The Premier League believes there is no room for racism, anywhere. 

#NoRoomForRacism

 

Edited 7 December, 2020 by Weston Super Saint

[bazza]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Link to poll?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-poll

[igsey]

Applause tonight before kick off. Good to see.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.  That's the FA statement.  It also only mentions 'taking the knee' and not 'black power salutes' which have a political connotation.

 

This one is from the EFL - you know, the league that Millwall and Derby play in - can you show the 'crystal clear' bit about political messages in this one?

https://www.efl.com/news/2020/june/not-today-or-any-day---efl-clubs-stand-together-against-racism-as-season-resumes/

 

Lol, that statement was from the Millwall players.

[aintforever]

Yeah, great to see the Brighton fans clapping the lads.

[Dorchester Saint]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

The phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a Twitter hashtag, a slogan, a social movement, a political action committee, or a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice. The players have made it crystal clear they are not supporting any political group, they have said so in their own words, I’m not sure how you fail to understand that.

You actually believe professional footballers are campaigning to end capitalism and defund the police - wow!

 

FFS!!! So why put it in the corner of h screen?? 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Lol, that statement was from the Millwall players.

Oh, why didn't you say!

Now it's crystal clear, I mean, I'm always looking out for statements from the Millwall players!

I take it all back and have to agree with your original assessment that anyone who didn't read that statement from Millwall is clearly a 'thickie' for not knowing they had no political intentions whatsoever 

/sarcasm

I assume that statement also covers the Derby players?

Edited 7 December, 2020 by Weston Super Saint

[Ex Lion Tamer]

The only reason BLM has increased racial tension is that white people are being forced to face up to things that people of colour have always known to be true

Edited 7 December, 2020 by Ex Lion Tamer

[aintforever]

Fantastic seeing the lads being clapped taking the knee tonight, it looks like most people get it, regardless what a few wack-jobs on here think.

[Lighthouse]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Fantastic seeing the lads being clapped taking the knee tonight, it looks like most people get it, regardless what a few wack-jobs on here think.

I wouldn’t have expected anything else at a game in Brighton. Some fans will clap, some will boo. I imagine after a handful of games most fans will just stand around in mild indifference.

[Jonnyboy]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

And that's fine but my point is it hasn't actually achieved anything other thank stoking racial tensions. 

How on earth do you know? 

[Jonnyboy]

Funny how all the not-at-all-racists on here get all passionate at any kind of affirmative action taking place, but any kind of real racism taking place in the world being highlighted and its just the sound of crickets. 

[rooney]

Its run its course, we have all got the message and can stop now as did the clapping for the NHS. 

[East Kent Saint]

13 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

If only the Millwall supporters could have done the same. I should imagine they also booed during 'clap for carers' and the remembrance poppy rigmarole every November. Or perhaps they knew better than to try it on for those occasions. It's all virtue signalling isn't it?

If they are so concerned about the political offshoot of BLM, maybe they would like to offset any worries over calls to 'defund the police' by offering to pay for the disproportionately enhanced policing that invariably accompanies their matches. Over £600k a season of which they pay £15k, so why should the taxpayer have to pay for their babysitting? As an aside I'm under the impression that Saints actually pay for most of their policing costs, although couldn't find anything on it. https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/disclosure_2018/june_2018/information-rights-unit---policing-costs-for-premier-league-and-championship-football-matches-for-201718-season  

 

Defund the police is a poor choise of words for the actual policy suggestion . The suggestion is that money is spent improving peoples situation to reduce the causes of crime rather than spending more on law enforcement . Ideally spend money on both that way you might meet a police person in the street rather than only seeing them in patrol cars on the motorways or outside bars on match days !!!

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Defund the police is a poor choise of words for the actual policy suggestion . The suggestion is that money is spent improving peoples situation to reduce the causes of crime rather than spending more on law enforcement . Ideally spend money on both that way you might meet a police person in the street rather than only seeing them in patrol cars on the motorways or outside bars on match days !!!

Greg Clark was screamed at for racism, forced out of his job due to a poor choice of words. Yet BLMs poor choice of words and they’re all well they don’t really mean that, what they mean is.....funny that.

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, aintforever said:

Fantastic seeing the lads being clapped taking the knee tonight, it looks like most people get it, regardless what a few wack-jobs on here think.

At what point do they stop taking a knee ? What social change has to be shown to have been enacted ? At what point might it become accepted as tokenism, as some people assert it already has ? Do you think we'll see players and officials kneeling at the start of the 2024/5 season ?

( Does asking these questions make me a "wack-job" ? )

Edited 8 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[austsaint]

47 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Greg Clark was screamed at for racism, forced out of his job due to a poor choice of words. Yet BLMs poor choice of words and they’re all well they don’t really mean that, what they mean is.....funny that.

Did someone bully you at school, or are you just generally disgruntled with contemporary life and the pace of change?

[Griffo]

14 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Did someone bully you at school, or are you just generally disgruntled with contemporary life and the pace of change?

Have a look at how many people in this thread are fed up too. You can try dig one person out but arguably you’re the one not keeping up. 
 

Our fans are generally a bit wet so I’m glad to have opened this and seen most people are on the same page. These are the feelings of the majority if you step away from mainstream media.

[tajjuk]

21 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

 

Just maybe, they are not booing because the players are taking a stance but they are booing because this has gone on long enough. Just like clapping for the NHS came to an end, wouldn't it be timely for this to as the point has been made and now the message could be falling on deaf ears. 

That argument is fundamentally stupid.

As the Colchester chairman points out, if you don't like it, just shut up and keep quiet, it literally has zero impact on the people booing, unless of course they disagree with a stand being taken against racism, making them therefore clearly racist themselves.

If the players feel the still need to do it because I don't know, because racism is still very prevalent in society and is still an issue then they are quite entitled to do a peaceful protest that literally has no negative impacts on anyone. 

It's also ironic that you say it has 'gone on long enough', when that is exactly the point about racism they are trying to highlight and the fact it is still going on.

There is literally no argument here, people desperately scrambling around for fake reasons why people are booing an anti-racism protest is honestly pathetic. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Did someone bully you at school, or are you just generally disgruntled with contemporary life and the pace of change?

No mate, i'm perfectly happy with my life, i'm just bored with people looking for racism everywhere with their pious attitudes screaming at everyone who doesn't completely agree with them 100%. 

[austsaint]

24 minutes ago, Griffo said:

Have a look at how many people in this thread are fed up too. You can try dig one person out but arguably you’re the one not keeping up. 
 

Our fans are generally a bit wet so I’m glad to have opened this and seen most people are on the same page. These are the feelings of the majority if you step away from mainstream media.

What am I not keeping up with?       All I can see are tirades about a symbolic gesture highlighting racism, holding the game up by 30 seconds!   What does it matter?    I'm guessing those that are fed up have an accumulation of grievances about all sorts of societal change and this is just the powder keg.

[Saint_Jonny]

14 hours ago, Turkish said:

I remember an article about 15 years ago from a black reporter who went undercover on Millwall fans. In a blaze of publicity he exposed what it was like to be a black fan at Millwall. He gave a terrible account of racist banners, monkey noises At injured black players and a large section of the crowd chanting “sieg heil” through the match. It sounded horrific.
 

a few weeks later another article appeared by the same reporter. In it he admitted that he’d got it wrong, the racist banner he now claims he was told about But didn’t actually see himself didn’t exist, the monkey chants were actually boos as an Opposition player was only booked for a sending off tackle which left Millwalls black striker Barry Hayles needing lengthy treatment. As for the seig heil chants coming from one end of the ground? Well they were playing Brighton and the chants he heard were Brighton fans singing “seagulls” 
 

Imagine the meltdown of such an article appeared today.  Ive no doubt it’d be lapped up by many as proof as to how racist the country is. 

Have you got a link to this article or do we have to take your word for it. 

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Have you got a link to this article or do we have to take your word for it. 

sure, you could have googled it yourself, it wasn't hard to find.

 

Stitch up by the Moronic Reporter (millwall-history.org.uk)

 

 

[Saint_Jonny]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

sure, you could have googled it yourself, it wasn't hard to find.

 

Stitch up by the Moronic Reporter (millwall-history.org.uk)

 

 

Ah a Millwall fansite blog post based on a rag of a newspaper. Wonderful stuff  

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Ah a Millwall fansite blog post based on a rag of a newspaper. Wonderful stuff  

SO the copy of the actual article saying he got it wrong isn't good enough? Okay then. You can also find it in when saturday comes

When Saturday Comes - Wrong end of the stick (wsc.co.uk)

Edited 8 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Saint_Jonny]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

SO the copy of the actual article saying he got it wrong isn't good enough? Okay then. You can also find it in when saturday comes

When Saturday Comes - Wrong end of the stick (wsc.co.uk)

Cool - thanks. I am convinced. Millwall fans are all top-lads. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

At what point do they stop taking a knee ? What social change has to be shown to have been enacted ? At what point might it become accepted as tokenism, as some people assert it already has ? Do you think we'll see players and officials kneeling at the start of the 2024/5 season ?

( Does asking these questions make me a "wack-job" ? )

Absolutely

Looks like Millwall have decided that today is the point they stop taking the knee, instead they will link arms in solidarity.

Should the question be, is it really the job of football / sport to fix society's problems? Is football equipped to solve complex issues or should it stick to being about kicking a ball around, largely for entertainment, with a little local rivalry thrown in for good measure?

[Turkish]

Just now, Saint_Jonny said:

Cool - thanks. I am convinced. Millwall fans are all top-lads. 

glad you admit you got it wrong again. You're not very good at this are you.

[Saint_Jonny]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

glad you admit you got it wrong again. You're not very good at this are you.

I should have just taken your word as gospel Turkish. You are the oracle of all things. Not a contrarian, trollish ballbag at all.

[Bearsy]

18 minutes ago, austsaint said:

What am I not keeping up with?       All I can see are tirades about a symbolic gesture highlighting racism, holding the game up by 30 seconds!   What does it matter?    I'm guessing those that are fed up have an accumulation of grievances about all sorts of societal change and this is just the powder keg.

There's a massive leftish conspiracy to strip me of my irrational prejudices, and replace them with a whole new set of irrational prejudices.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for irrational prejudices. You can't get by without them. There's 7 billion people on this planet, I can't go round treating everyone as individuals. But my current irrational prejudices, that no-one hates black people, that women can't reverse park, and that Chris Wilder is a cock, are quite dear to me.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

I should have just taken your word as gospel Turkish. You are the oracle of all things. Not a contrarian, trollish ballbag at all.

yes you should have as you insinuated i was making it up and you were wrong. Now you know for the future dont you, good lad. 

Edited 8 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Saint Billy]

54 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

That argument is fundamentally stupid.

As the Colchester chairman points out, if you don't like it, just shut up and keep quiet, it literally has zero impact on the people booing, unless of course they disagree with a stand being taken against racism, making them therefore clearly racist themselves.

If the players feel the still need to do it because I don't know, because racism is still very prevalent in society and is still an issue then they are quite entitled to do a peaceful protest that literally has no negative impacts on anyone. 

It's also ironic that you say it has 'gone on long enough', when that is exactly the point about racism they are trying to highlight and the fact it is still going on.

There is literally no argument here, people desperately scrambling around for fake reasons why people are booing an anti-racism protest is honestly pathetic. 

So presumably you want this particular gesture to go on ad infinitum and become an integral part of starting a football match do you?. 

[Scummer]

4 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

So presumably you want this particular gesture to go on ad infinitum and become an integral part of starting a football match do you?. 

Would it actually matter if it did? It takes about 5 seconds

[austsaint]

12 minutes ago, Bearsy said:

There's a massive leftish conspiracy to strip me of my irrational prejudices, and replace them with a whole new set of irrational prejudices.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for irrational prejudices. You can't get by without them. There's 7 billion people on this planet, I can't go round treating everyone as individuals. But my current irrational prejudices, that no-one hates black people, that women can't reverse park, and that Chris Wilder is a cock, are quite dear to me.

The Benny Hill of the 21 Century.

[JRM]

2 minutes ago, Scummer said:

Would it actually matter if it did? It takes about 5 seconds

If I wanted to watch a political protest I'd hang around outside the Guildhall on a Saturday afternoon, but instead I go to watch football in a football stadium. 

Anyway good to hear Millwall won't be taking the knee tonight. 

[Scummer]

5 minutes ago, JRM said:

If I wanted to watch a political protest I'd hang around outside the Guildhall on a Saturday afternoon, but instead I go to watch football in a football stadium. 

Anyway good to hear Millwall won't be taking the knee tonight. 

I take it you boycott games around remembrance Sunday then? Also, it's not political to feel that black people deserve the same rights and treatment as white people.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

At what point do they stop taking a knee ? What social change has to be shown to have been enacted ? At what point might it become accepted as tokenism, as some people assert it already has ? Do you think we'll see players and officials kneeling at the start of the 2024/5 season ?

( Does asking these questions make me a "wack-job" ? )

It's up to the players, I don't see any harm in it. They get on their knee for a couple of seconds, it's nothing worth wetting your pants over.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

It's up to the players

Collectively or individually ? When might it become OK for players to break ranks ?

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

It's up to the players, I don't see any harm in it. They get on their knee for a couple of seconds, it's nothing worth wetting your pants over.

If it's not a big deal why are you so excited about them doing it?

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Collectively or individually ? When might it become OK for players to break ranks ?

Some have already, it's up to them. Millwall are planning something different so they don't upset their snowflakes, that's fine.

[mrfahaji]

1 hour ago, Saint Billy said:

So presumably you want this particular gesture to go on ad infinitum and become an integral part of starting a football match do you?. 

Didn't they say they planned to do it to the end of the (calendar) year and then stop?

If that's the case, surely people who don't like it could just deal with it for a few weeks... I'm sure there are plenty of other things that happen that people just put up with*. Let those who feel it's important take part, those who don't can just let it wash over them. It's like wearing a poppy in November - no-one should have to wear one, they shouldn't be chastised for it. But equally, if people do want to wear one, then good for them!

* I'm not generally for the idea of turning a blind eye to bad things that happen, but the core of this movement is not a 'bad' thing. It's footballers trying to raise awareness of prejudice. Even if you don't agree with the sentiment, or the way it's being done, that's still the main reason it is happening.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Some have already, it's up to them. Millwall are planning something different so they don't upset their snowflakes, that's fine.

The snowflakes that were supposedly crying because of a few boos from the fans on saturday?

[East Kent Saint]

This thread was worth it just to hear from Bearsy ! He always made me smile .

[washsaint]

So many wet t**ts on here.

Only an absolute moron would say racism is OK - of course it is not.

But football scored a massive own goal by tying the 'taking the knee' to the BLM movement - in their leap to be shown as so woke they completely fouled up the message they were trying to send.  BLM is a foul organization that actually seems to create more harm than good with its Marxist agenda and 'defund the police'.

We now seem to live in a society that is so illiberal (people claim they are liberal and all touchy feely and then claim immense hurt if anyone dares to disagree with their sentiments and cry to mummy)  people cannot disagree with a stance without being accused of being racist/homophobic/white privilege, etc.  

All racism is terrible and needs to be eradicated - but taking a knee is tarnished.  The 'Kick it Out' message resonates far more.

For those bleating about racist Millwall fans (and yes a lot of their fans are quite special) why no mention of the Colchester fans who booed?  Or West Ham fans who booed?

The woke minority who are shouting the loudest don't recognize that people hate being preached at and people look to sport to get away from the day to day crap, especially during COVID.  Here in the US major sports ratings have plummeted at the height of the BLM/take a knee force feeding by professional athletes: because ordinary people cannot relate to multi-millionaires pontificating to them about how they should act and how much white privilege they have.

[wadesmith]

Will Saints fans ‘Boo’ the taking of the knee next home match?.  

Edited 8 December, 2020 by wadesmith

[East Kent Saint]

I am trying to understand how black reporter could go undercover in F Troop !