Things That are Racist

[SKD]

11 minutes ago, Dusic said:

So do you think the players that take the knee are showing solidarity with the political aims of BLM and that is what their intention is behind the gesture?

To be honest, I think a large number of them are doing because they don’t have a choice. Comply or be called a racist. Regardless of political views. 
 

what has taking the knee actually achieved? For me, It’s a pointless virtual signalling gesture which has been ongoing for so long i hardly even notice them doing it anymore.
 

if players are actually serious about change, why don’t they dig into their pockets to fund education programs. 
 

if BLM ‘the movement’ or whatever that is, isn’t linked to the organisation, why not change the name and distance from a far left terror group according the the current president (antifa in the states).  I mean if I started a National Socialist movement and named it Nazi, not sure it’d go down too well. 

[aintforever]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Oh, I see, it was all in the statement and crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures.

What was in the statement about Kazim-Richards and him standing with his raised fist as in the pictures above - just a general wave to someone he spotted in the crowd or a 'Black Power' / political movement salute?

I’m guessing it was a response to abuse from a bunch of racist cunts.

[Neef]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony 

Nobody used the phrase until the group came along. 

This is just not true. The organisation came into existence off the back of the phrase emerging in 2013. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I’m guessing it was a response to abuse from a bunch of racist cunts.

Guessing? Seriously?

I thought it was all in the magic statement and was crystal clear regarding political gestures?

[Lord Duckhunter]

32 minutes ago, Dusic said:

So do you think the players that take the knee are showing solidarity with the political aims of BLM and that is what their intention is behind the gesture?

Nope.

 

 As I said, they jumped on a bandwagon. When it dawned on them that the phrase and the group named after it was divisive, instead of admitting their mistake, they use verbal gymnastics to try and claim something different. If it was just about stopping discrimination in all its form (which is the sky commentators new mantra) they’d have used Kick it out. 

[Trader]

47 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

BLM are a divisive political group with dangerous ideas that hijacked Floyd’s death. And funny how most of them you see on demos are white!!

It is all really dispiriting.  I feel there’s been a lot of division sown by the identity politics of recent years that became turbocharged over the summer. The sleight of hand in templating  undeniable problems in America onto British society are frankly unjustified. We have come on immeasurably in this area since the 1980s.  And, counter-productively, the emergence of this divisive aggressive brand of identity politics has given a shot in the arm to the moribund rump of racists here who can exploit it in a reactionary way. Issues and inequalities that we would have until quite recently considered to be a class-based are now being racialised. But there’s no discernible "white privilege" on the council estates of Gateshead Sunderland Middlesborough Glasgow etc etc

We’ve gone away from innocent, wide-eyed melting pot idealism to a nasty separatism, underlined by absurd Critical Race Theory ideas as “cultural appropriation”, and the endless grievance-mining for guff like "microagressions". The kneeling thing jars for many of us because it represents this divisive, separatist ideology, even though many who approve and kneel are undoubtedly doing it for what they consider are the right reasons. 

Wot he said.

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Guessing? Seriously?

I thought it was all in the magic statement and was crystal clear regarding political gestures?

Their statement was about taking the knee.

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Nope.

 

 As I said, they jumped on a bandwagon. When it dawned on them that the phrase and the group named after it was divisive, instead of admitting their mistake, they use verbal gymnastics to try and claim something different. If it was just about stopping discrimination in all its form (which is the sky commentators new mantra) they’d have used Kick it out. 

They have said what it was about from day one.

A bunch of lads in mainly their teens and twenties decide to do something to help stop racial discrimination and you think it’s right to boo and abuse them because the slogan they use might get confused with some groups within a social movement that have different political views to you. That’s pretty pathetic.

[Big M]

5 hours ago, Red said:

Showing you true colours with a first post - how strange!

It should have been equality/fairness for all rather than an unfortunate slogan associated with a political organisation. Still two wrongs don't make a right. 

And you are part of the problem. You have assumed just because I posted this and its my first post I must be an individual who holds extreme views, Tit. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

They have said what it was about from day one.

A bunch of lads in mainly their teens and twenties decide to do something to help stop racial discrimination and you think it’s right to boo and abuse them because the slogan they use might get confused with some groups within a social movement that have different political views to you. That’s pretty pathetic.

Do you really believe this pony. I suppose you think it’s a complete coincidence that they started this nonsense at the same time as the BLM organisation were protesting about a violent criminal being killed. It’s a coincidence that once the true beliefs of the BLM organisation came to light,  all this “discrimination in all its forms” wording started being used on TV and it’s a complete and utter coincidence that the phrase matches the groups name and kick it out wasn’t used. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, oldskoolsi said:

If it's possible for people to boo taking the knee and not be a racist it's possible to take a knee because you want to end racism and not support Black Lives Matter.

 

 

Yep and people are allowed to take the knee if that's what they want to do as long as supporters are allowed to show their displeasure at the gesture. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Neef said:

There's a difference between:

1. BLM - The organisation 

2. BLM - The phrase used by the vast majoirty of people as a mean's of raising awareness/speaking about personal/professional/systemic examples of racism et.

Question: have the blm organisation used the same gesture of taking the knee as a sign of support for their organisation? 

When the taking the knee was at its height, did many social media users express their support for football players taking the knee and then link to a blm fundraiser that was for the organisation and supposedly nothing to do with the gesture the footballers were doing? 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

To be honest, I think a large number of them are doing because they don’t have a choice. Comply or be called a racist. Regardless of political views. 
 

what has taking the knee actually achieved? For me, It’s a pointless virtual signalling gesture which has been ongoing for so long i hardly even notice them doing it anymore.
 

if players are actually serious about change, why don’t they dig into their pockets to fund education programs. 
 

if BLM ‘the movement’ or whatever that is, isn’t linked to the organisation, why not change the name and distance from a far left terror group according the the current president (antifa in the states).  I mean if I started a National Socialist movement and named it Nazi, not sure it’d go down too well. 

That is exactly what they are doing. My brother in law is an ex footballer and has a lot of current footballer mates and the majority view in the changing rooms are that this is all a load of bollocks but they keep their head down and do it because they don't want to get crucified in the press. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Their statement was about taking the knee.

Ah, right, thanks for clarifying.  Earlier you said the statement was crystal clear and implied anyone that didn't understand it was a bit thick.  

Looks like you didn't really understand the 'crystal clear' statement yourself when you mentioned their gestures (plural) rather than your current stance that they were only talking about taking the knee...

Quote

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

 

[egg]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

The thick cunts on this thread no doubt think Les Ferdinand condones the booing at Millwall.

Condone, no. Bright enough to understand why, probably. 

[Totton Saint]

Peter Hitchens article in today's Sunday Mail  on line makes excellent further reading on this topic and gets to the very heart of the problem. Sorry I am not tech enough to provide a link. The genie is out of the bottle! 

[Totton Saint]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That is exactly what they are doing. My brother in law is an ex footballer and has a lot of current footballer mates and the majority view in the changing rooms are that this is all a load of bollocks but they keep their head down and do it because they don't want to get crucified in the press. 

 

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That is exactly what they are doing. My brother in law is an ex footballer and has a lot of current footballer mates and the majority view in the changing rooms are that this is all a load of bollocks but they keep their head down and do it because they don't want to get crucified in the press. 

 

[Turkish]

Amusing how the only people calling others names, saying they’re thick and being abusive and personal are the ones desperately defending BLM. 

[Neef]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Question: have the blm organisation used the same gesture of taking the knee as a sign of support for their organisation? 

When the taking the knee was at its height, did many social media users express their support for football players taking the knee and then link to a blm fundraiser that was for the organisation and supposedly nothing to do with the gesture the footballers were doing? 

This iteration of taking a knee began with the American Football Players Colin Kaepernick and Erick Reed in 2016. It spread from there. When they did so, they weren't aligned with any formal & registered movement etc. The BLM organisation in disuccion were one of many organisations who have since embarced taking a knee. They have not been the only one. 

RE. Social Media users, that's preceisly my point. Some social media's did link to a fundraiser. Some didn't. Some linked to fundraisers that were assocaited with the numerous, independent BLM organisations that now exist all over the world (one is the specific BLM organisation being spoke about). Some linked to petitions. Some linked to fundraisers put together by other organisations not called BLM. 

The phrase 'BLM' has been intereprted and used by an array of indivduals, organisations and institutions in a variety of manners. Some who use the phrase are a part of the specific BLM organisation that is in discussion. Some don't. The phrase outdates any of the numerous BLM organisations that now exist. 

[Micky]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That is exactly what they are doing. My brother in law is an ex footballer and has a lot of current footballer mates and the majority view in the changing rooms are that this is all a load of bollocks but they keep their head down and do it because they don't want to get crucified in the press. 

Footballers have been put in an impossible position.   Yes, football is played in front of the masses,  and therefore can broadcast 'the message' quickly.   But ultimately racism is a problem of society not football.  Why do we not see the cast of Eastenders and Coronation Street taking the knee before every episode,  why not the news presenters, the panel on Question Time, millions are watching.  Why has it been left to football to shoulder the responsibility of a society wide problem? 

[percy windham]

21 hours ago, Turkish said:

You’re not very bright are you, dangerously you think you are, bless.

 

29 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Amusing how the only people calling others names, saying they’re thick and being abusive and personal are the ones desperately defending BLM. 

Yes. Very amusing. 

[verlaine1979]

I'm sure Millwall fans, with their long history of tolerance and non-violence, were merely protesting the intrusion of politics into the sacred apolitical realm of sport.

That's definitely not the position requiring mental gymnastics to reach here.

[wadesmith]

I come in peace when I say this, as I think there is an interesting debate to be had..whether we are having it is another matter. I think the reason ‘Kick It Out’ got left behind is because it was simply not very effective. If you google ‘Players reject Kick It Out’ the first article is on the BBC advising 30 premiership  black players refused to take part in it. Jermaine Defoe rocks up in rainbow laces, Chris Kamala tries to look serious, little mascots of every colour appear at St Mary’s. It didn’t even manage to stop me hating Garth Crooks.(although that’s cos I don’t like him, nothing to do with his skin colour) It really is textbook virtue signalling. People say taking the knee is virtue signalling..try telling that to Colin Kaepernick, he one of America’s most hated men, facing regular death threats. I think the fact BLMatters riles up so many people  shows it’s necessary, it asks some uncomftable questions of people..including me. I’ve actually seen someone on another forum who originally complained about ‘Kick it out’ as they felt it wasn’t necessary, now saying ‘Why can’t we go back to Kick It Out’ Try figuring that out?. I still believe Britain is a moderately racist country (don’t bother trying to convince me otherwise I’ve been around too long) I have actually heard people say ‘Black Lives Matters is actually making me more racist’ Well fair enough mate..that’s cos your a racist. I would actually like to see the end of taking the knee as I think it’s becoming counterproductive..but I like the fact it’s opened the debate, and made me think about a few things.

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

I come in peace when I say this, as I think there is an interesting debate to be had..whether we are having it is another matter. I think the reason ‘Kick It Out’ got left behind is because it was simply not very effective. If you google ‘Players reject Kick It Out’ the first article is on the BBC advising 30 premiership  black players refused to take part in it. Jermaine Defoe rocks up in rainbow laces, Chris Kamala tries to look serious, little mascots of every colour appear at St Mary’s. It didn’t even manage to stop me hating Garth Crooks.(although that’s cos I don’t like him, nothing to do with his skin colour) It really is textbook virtue signalling. People say taking the knee is virtue signalling..try telling that to Colin Kaepernick, he one of America’s most hated men, facing regular death threats. I think the fact BLMatters riles up so many people  shows it’s necessary, it asks some uncomftable questions of people..including me. I’ve actually seen someone on another forum who originally complained about ‘Kick it out’ as they felt it wasn’t necessary, now saying ‘Why can’t we go back to Kick It Out’ Try figuring that out?. I still believe Britain is a moderately racist country (don’t bother trying to convince me otherwise I’ve been around too long) I have actually heard people say ‘Black Lives Matters is actually making me more racist’ Well fair enough mate..that’s cos your a racist. I would actually like to see the end of taking the knee as I think it’s becoming counterproductive..but I like the fact it’s opened the debate, and made me think about a few things.

Sadly, I don’t think it has opened up much debate, simply made it more polarised. You only have to read some of the insults flying around to see that there’s very little listening going on from either side.

 

Kick it Out has had limited impact because it’s just a slogan and I’m not sure why anyone expect shouting ‘black lives matter’ and kneeling to be any different. All it is is a gesture, nothing more. It doesn’t solve any problems, it doesn’t impart any knowledge on society. Basically what it comes down to is trying to solve crimes with sound bites. In that regard, it’s about as effective as wearing a T-shirt saying, "no more paedos," or taking the knee to ‘raise awareness’ of murder. Whenever someone mentions raising awareness of racism I think, ‘wow really, you think the issue is simply that people aren’t aware of it as a concept?’

[Valesaint]

Kick the 'knee' out now. Message heard, gesture so inflammatory.

[wadesmith]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Sadly, I don’t think it has opened up much debate, simply made it more polarised. You only have to read some of the insults flying around to see that there’s very little listening going on from either side.

 

Kick it Out has had limited impact because it’s just a slogan and I’m not sure why anyone expect shouting ‘black lives matter’ and kneeling to be any different. All it is is a gesture, nothing more. It doesn’t solve any problems, it doesn’t impart any knowledge on society. Basically what it comes down to is trying to solve crimes with sound bites. In that regard, it’s about as effective as wearing a T-shirt saying, "no more paedos," or taking the knee to ‘raise awareness’ of murder. Whenever someone mentions raising awareness of racism I think, ‘wow really, you think the issue is simply that people aren’t aware of it as a concept?’

I suppose for me it’s now gone beyond football. You say people have become more ‘polarised’..yeah  your right.I wouldn’t disagree.but that’s the fault of the individual. As I said it’s made me ask questions of myself. I would consider myself non-racist & it would be easy for my opinions to become ‘polarised’ and just entrench myself in my position. But I’ve started looking back at the last  half century of my life & thought ‘Could I have done more?’ I can think of offices I worked  where there probably was unconscious bias about employing certain ethnic groups..in fact looking back it was obvious...but everyone just sort of accepted it..I mean that’s how things were. Why weren’t these issues raised?. Why didn’t I raise it? If people’s thoughts are becoming more polarised..well that’s our problem, maybe we need to look at ourselves, me included.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

The vast majority of footballers are not left wing, let alone radical Marxists. So when they take the knee, they are clearly not endorsing Marxism. Yet people choose to focus on that because they don't want to face up to the fact that Black people in this country face discrimination. Black footballers and their teammates who aren't just going through the motions simply want the rest of us to understand that.

Black people are 8.9 times more likely to be stopped and searched by police than white people. Can you imagine how humiliating and annoying it must be to be searched by police when you haven't done anything wrong?

Structural racism does exist in this country, no matter how much it hurts our self image as white people to face up to it

Edited 6 December, 2020 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Baird of the land]

Personally I just ignore it but do find the lack of any media discussion about what the conditions are to end what seems to have just become a rather trite rite. 

[Saint_clark]

17 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

The vast majority of footballers are not left wing, let alone radical Marxists. So when they take the knee, they are clearly not endorsing Marxism. Yet people choose to focus on that because they don't want to face up to the fact that Black people in this country face discrimination. Black footballers and their teammates who aren't just going through the motions simply want the rest of us to understand that.

Black people are 8.9 times more likely to be stopped and searched by police than white people. Can you imagine how humiliating and annoying it must be to be searched by police when you haven't done anything wrong?

Structural racism does exist in this country, no matter how much it hurts our self image as white people to face up to it

Isn't the increased likelihood of being stopped and searched just reflective of the fact that the larger majority of drugs in possession and knife crimes are committed by young black males? If you want to address why that is the case then I'm all for it, but increased stop and searches against black people is a symptom of a larger issue, not the issue itself. 

[Teddeer]

Time to stop all this taking the knee nonsense. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Isn't the increased likelihood of being stopped and searched just reflective of the fact that the larger majority of drugs in possession and knife crimes are committed by young black males? If you want to address why that is the case then I'm all for it, but increased stop and searches against black people is a symptom of a larger issue, not the issue itself. 

That may be true to a degree. I'd love to see definitive stats on it but am not aware of any. In their absence we have no idea whether that that is all of it, even though it's easier to go with that because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

What we can be pretty certain of is that stop and search is causing serious resentment. Just listen to what Black people are telling us rather than thinking we know better.

There are countless examples of where S&S has been used badly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54709901

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/08/met-police-apologise-for-handcuffing-athlete-bianca-williams

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-11/suffolk-police-apologise-for-racist-comments-from-officers

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I would add that plenty of white middle class people take drugs without ever needing to fear being stop and searched with no evidence

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Neef said:

This iteration of taking a knee began with the American Football Players Colin Kaepernick and Erick Reed in 2016. It spread from there. When they did so, they weren't aligned with any formal & registered movement etc. The BLM organisation in disuccion were one of many organisations who have since embarced taking a knee. They have not been the only one. 

RE. Social Media users, that's preceisly my point. Some social media's did link to a fundraiser. Some didn't. Some linked to fundraisers that were assocaited with the numerous, independent BLM organisations that now exist all over the world (one is the specific BLM organisation being spoke about). Some linked to petitions. Some linked to fundraisers put together by other organisations not called BLM. 

The phrase 'BLM' has been intereprted and used by an array of indivduals, organisations and institutions in a variety of manners. Some who use the phrase are a part of the specific BLM organisation that is in discussion. Some don't. The phrase outdates any of the numerous BLM organisations that now exist. 

Doesn't seem very smart of the premier league to taint their brand by having any of this confusion around black lives matter and the organisation. Particularly when they have a perfectly good anti racism initiative that didn't suffer from a PR problem and is much less likely to get people's backs up. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

I'm sure Millwall fans, with their long history of tolerance and non-violence, were merely protesting the intrusion of politics into the sacred apolitical realm of sport.

That's definitely not the position requiring mental gymnastics to reach here.

It's certainly more of a nuanced position than thinking that all Millwall supporters who boo are thick racists which is what your position appears to be. 

[Lighthouse]

43 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's certainly more of a nuanced position than thinking that all Millwall supporters who boo are thick racists which is what your position appears to be. 

I doubt anyone on here would argue against the view that a large number of Wall fans are a bit thick, so we can take that as a given. The issue here is the motivation for this anger. To me it seems obvious; they’ve seen the violence in USA and London, which BLM have been far from an innocent party in, the defacing of war memorials and Churchill statues etc. and are put out by the fact that all their players are forced to kneel for this movement. I know it was a minority who were responsible for the vandalism and violence but you try telling them that.

 

It is much simpler however to simply write this issue off as racial hatred because that’s what people want to see. They want a bogey man to fight against, so any lazy assumption will do.

[trousers]

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's certainly more of a nuanced position than thinking that all Millwall supporters who boo are thick racists which is what your position appears to be. 

All I've done is point to Millwall's rich history of violent intolerance - feel free to counter by pointing to the unusually high incidence of PhDs in political science among their fanbase.

[saintwbu]

If there are people out here that genuinely think all professional footballers are taking a knee because they think of it as a productive and effective way to end racial discrimination, they are delusional. I don’t know of a single footballer in the English leagues who hasn’t gone along with it, yet I know of several who have been accused or found guilty of racial abuse during their career. They are taking the knee because it’s the easy way and the alternative is complete vilification in the press and on social media. I guarantee probably 50% at least don’t consider it to have any meaning whatsoever and realise it’s completely performative. Opposition was always going to happen when the fans came back, if we had full capacity i’d expect it in almost every ground in the country in some form. I expect soon we’ll see an amicable ‘we’ve made our point’ type statement from the FA or players union or whatever, and that it’ll be put to bed so they can pursue more impactive change going forward. 

[verlaine1979]

21 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

If there are people out here that genuinely think all professional footballers are taking a knee because they think of it as a productive and effective way to end racial discrimination, they are delusional. I don’t know of a single footballer in the English leagues who hasn’t gone along with it, yet I know of several who have been accused or found guilty of racial abuse during their career. They are taking the knee because it’s the easy way and the alternative is complete vilification in the press and on social media. I guarantee probably 50% at least don’t consider it to have any meaning whatsoever and realise it’s completely performative. Opposition was always going to happen when the fans came back, if we had full capacity i’d expect it in almost every ground in the country in some form. I expect soon we’ll see an amicable ‘we’ve made our point’ type statement from the FA or players union or whatever, and that it’ll be put to bed so they can pursue more impactive change going forward. 

Nobody said anything about what all footballers feel or believe - nor is it particularly important whether they're genuinely fighting for racial equality or acting prudently because of the weight of moral expectation. What is clear is that, when asked, I've yet to see a single one of them explain that they're kneeling because they are committed Marxists.

And if footballers were obliged to be honest about what they think at all times, I'd imagine a great many more of them would have to explain that they think the vast majority of the paying customers are fat, ungrateful c*nts. Let's be thankful for a little of that performative civility.

Edited 7 December, 2020 by verlaine1979

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Nobody said anything about what all footballers feel or believe - nor is it particularly important whether they're genuinely fighting for racial equality or acting prudently because of the weight of moral expectation. What is clear is that, when asked, I've yet to see a single one of them explain that they're kneeling because they are committed Marxists.

And if footballers were obliged to be honest about what they think at all times, I'd imagine a great many more of them would have to explain that they think the vast majority of the paying customers are fat, ungrateful c*nts. Let's be thankful for a little of that performative civility.

You're drawing applause from me Verlaine....suddenly the attributes of Steven Davis seem a million years ago!!   I do agree with the point some have made - at some point the symbolism of the knee can be wound up in favour of continuing education programs and sanctions for racial abuse ,vilification etc on and off the pitch.  Until "taking the knee" is wound up though, what sort of offence or irritation are some people taking over a 30 second symbolic gesture?

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, austsaint said:

You're drawing applause from me Verlaine....suddenly the attributes of Steven Davis seem a million years ago!!   I do agree with the point some have made - at some point the symbolism of the knee can be wound up in favour of continuing education programs and sanctions for racial abuse ,vilification etc on and off the pitch.  Until "taking the knee" is wound up though, what sort of offence or irritation are some people taking over a 30 second symbolic gesture?

At what point over the past decade has there not been vilification and sanctions for racial abuse? It already exists. 

[SKD]

9 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I would add that plenty of white middle class people take drugs without ever needing to fear being stop and searched with no evidence

to be fair, pretty much week in week out football fans across the country are filmed, escorted and followed by police. It’s done as a preventative tactic. 

Perhaps people like Lewis Hamilton (and the rest of the black community) should spend his time educating and trying to prevent black on black knife and gang crime. Especially in the capital. 
 

[Saint_Jonny]

15 hours ago, Neef said:

There's a difference between:

1. BLM - The organisation 

2. BLM - The phrase used by the vast majoirty of people as a mean's of raising awareness/speaking about personal/professional/systemic examples of racism et.

It's amazing how the closet racists and baby boomers scared of people that don't look like them still use this as a rallying point to disguise their apathy. It's all in the "I don't like people wot duznt look like me" play book:

• Complain about brining "politics into football" (it's not politics, it's using a platform to promote equality, you thick cunts)
• Call out "virtue signalling" in football / football fans / football organisations 
• Link the phrase "Black Lives Matter" to a US political organisation and use that to discredit the whole argument

If Millwall are Gammon F.C then we must be Ham Utd with the amount of knuckle dragging bellends I see posting on here.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

It's amazing how the closet racists and baby boomers scared of people that don't look like them still use this as a rallying point to disguise their apathy. It's all in the "I don't like people wot duznt look like me" play book:

• Complain about brining "politics into football" (it's not politics, it's using a platform to promote equality, you thick cunts)
• Call out "virtue signalling" in football / football fans / football organisations 
• Link the phrase "Black Lives Matter" to a US political organisation and use that to discredit the whole argument

If Millwall are Gammon F.C then we must be Ham Utd with the amount of knuckle dragging bellends I see posting on here.

Closet racists ✔️

baby boomers ✔️

scared of people that dont look like them ✔️

gammon ✔️

knuckle draggers ✔️

calling people thick c*nts ✔️

Well done mate, i think that's a full house. 

[Saint_Jonny]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Closet racists ✔️

baby boomers ✔️

scared of people that dont look like them ✔️

gammon ✔️

knuckle draggers ✔️

calling people thick c*nts ✔️

Well done mate, i think that's a full house. 

Glad I could impress you. 

[SKD]

23 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

It's amazing how the closet racists and baby boomers scared of people that don't look like them still use this as a rallying point to disguise their apathy. It's all in the "I don't like people wot duznt look like me" play book:

• Complain about brining "politics into football" (it's not politics, it's using a platform to promote equality, you thick cunts)
• Call out "virtue signalling" in football / football fans / football organisations 
• Link the phrase "Black Lives Matter" to a US political organisation and use that to discredit the whole argument

If Millwall are Gammon F.C then we must be Ham Utd with the amount of knuckle dragging bellends I see posting on here.

The irony is, it’s the middle class, far left white folk that we hate. Not the blacks, browns, yellows or greens...

• bending over for 5 seconds before a game and doing fuck all else is virtual signalling. 
• naturally, linking a phrase to an organisation, which share the same phrase, is going to happen. If there so desperate to be seen as different, why not change the name to, let’s say.... All lives matter. Which is inclusive for everyone (black, brown, white, LGBT, fridge freezer or whatever you want to identify as these days) 😊

[Wurzel]

I was not aware of the Millwall situation until reading thiss thread but when I was watching a couple of games kick off yesterday I wondered how "the knee" would be received once fans return to the ground.  For myself, whilst I sympathise with the original reasoning behind it, seeing the players doing this before every game like automatons has become meaningless to the point of annoyance.   

Whilst I disagreed with his reasoning, I respected James McLean's refusal to wear a poppy shirt. Players are individuals and should not have opinions of any kind forced onto them.

Watching the SpursArsenal game I saw a black player pass to a white player who passed to an oriental player. They all celebrated together when their team scored. That for me is a million times more effective in showing equality than an enforced gesture.

[shirleysfc]

11 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Doesn't seem very smart of the premier league to taint their brand by having any of this confusion around black lives matter and the organisation. Particularly when they have a perfectly good anti racism initiative that didn't suffer from a PR problem and is much less likely to get people's backs up. 

The Premier League dropped the use of the 'Black Lives Matter' slogan in the summer and swapped it for their own 'No Room for Racism' message. There were various reports last month that they were trying to distance themselves further from the 'Black Lives Matter' campaign whilst still supporting any teams/players that want to take the knee before matches as an anti-racism message.

[ant]

There seems to be a common theme running through this thread of "we must listen to the motivations of the Millwall fans" (which I wholeheartedly agree with), whilst in virtually the same breath stating "I don't want to see or hear about this gesture any more - time to end it".

Is that not quite problematic and hypocritical in itself? Burying it may be convenient, but does nothing to address the root cause.

Pointing towards Kick It Out and the status quo ante is reductive. Clearly it wasn't effective enough, else we wouldn't be having these conversations.

[Nolan]

10 minutes ago, ant said:

There seems to be a common theme running through this thread of "we must listen to the motivations of the Millwall fans" (which I wholeheartedly agree with), whilst in virtually the same breath stating "I don't want to see or hear about this gesture any more - time to end it".

Is that not quite problematic and hypocritical in itself? Burying it may be convenient, but does nothing to address the root cause.

Pointing towards Kick It Out and the status quo ante is reductive. Clearly it wasn't effective enough, else we wouldn't be having these conversations.

Not at all. we are one of the most tolerant societies in the world. Hence why recent polling is showing how BLM is deemed to be more divisive than constructive.