Things That are Racist

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

If you were gay and wanted to come out, do you think it is easier now or 30 years ago? Clearly it is now due to generationally eroding of the prejudice views and campaigning against them so they become far less acceptable. That does not mean there aren’t still loads of homophobic people about but kids genuinely appear to not bat an eyelid now whereas my generation very much used it as a term of abuse. That is how things change not reading slogans and having the scales fall from your eyes instantaneously. However the protest movements, lobbying and highlighting are effective in eroding some prejudices that may have deemed acceptable and now far less so - do think US has huge issues and far less so in UK. But I am white and doing ok so woudl not necessarily be aware of what blacks experience in day to day life which is far more subtle than meeting EDL Neanderthals.

I am no fan of taking the knee mind as do think tokenism now but naive to think such things work instantly and get to root cause and if not are ineffective. 

It’s images like this that are ending homophobia. If we could similar behaviour from black people then it would end racism 

[whelk]

Just now, Turkish said:

It’s images like this that are ending homophobia. If we could similar behaviour from black people then it would end racism 

Your screensaver?

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Your screensaver?

My boyfriend 

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Your idea that the UK isn’t racist is still laughable even if you keep repeating it.

Gang violence is such a difficult problem to deal with , it’s not so simple at all as just clamping down on gangs by our , defunded by the Tories , police but a massive social issue. I like most people find the level of violence beyond belief but it still happens. 
we agree that the Prem cocked up by not making their own gesture against racism as Taking the Knee was specific to USA . Standing for the Stars and Stripes before games with hand on heart was what kneeling as a gesture was all about.

Are you suggesting that the UK is racist or that racism exists within the UK, because those are two massively different propositions? I can think of very few cities in the world where so many people from different races, religions and nationalities live together in such relative harmony. 

Gang violence is a bit of an odd one when it comes to racism. I believe in many ways racism is just an excuse that members actively choose as a reason to hate each other. Most of it comes from young men with self esteem issues, low education, low prospects of employment, a lack of role models and generally a lack of purpose in life. As such, they just resort to default instincts - shagging and fighting - and a group of people being a different colour is just a convenience. If you don't believe me, look at the troubles in Northern Ireland. I doubt the vast majority of those involved actually cared about the 16th century reforms of Thomas Cromwell, it's just an excuse for a fight.

[Lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, whelk said:

If you were gay and wanted to come out, do you think it is easier now or 30 years ago? Clearly it is now due to generationally eroding of the prejudice views and campaigning against them so they become far less acceptable. That does not mean there aren’t still loads of homophobic people about but kids genuinely appear to not bat an eyelid now whereas my generation very much used it as a term of abuse. That is how things change not reading slogans and having the scales fall from your eyes instantaneously. However the protest movements, lobbying and highlighting are effective in eroding some prejudices that may have deemed acceptable and now far less so - do think US has huge issues and far less so in UK. But I am white and doing ok so woudl not necessarily be aware of what blacks experience in day to day life which is far more subtle than meeting EDL Neanderthals.

I am no fan of taking the knee mind as do think tokenism now but naive to think such things work instantly and get to root cause and if not are ineffective. 

This kind of thing has it's moment but I believe that moment has now passed, in the UK at least. Take being gay as an example, it was only 50ish years ago it was a criminal offence. It was a generally accepted norm in society that homosexuality was a sin, as decreed by the church. That kind of backwards thinking was considered mainstream and needed to be challenged. The reason people like Rosa Parks and MLK will be remembered for centuries is because they marched down streets chanting 'black lives matter' in a time and a place where they didn't. Black people were segregated by law and it was considered acceptable in society.

 

The crux of the matter is that in those cases, good people didn't know what they were saying was unacceptable - All they needed was to be told. Today everyone does know but not everyone chooses to accept that.

[East Kent Saint]

We can all live together in harmony until something kicks off ie Serbia/Bosnia where neighbours suddenly think it’s a good idea to kill them then burn their houses  down .

Racist or racism ? I would say Racist but no more than most countries. I suggest that we are all tribal , I am not exposed much to racism as I am white and most people I live around are as well but I still hear the odd racist comments. 

 

[Chez]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It won’t, that’s the issue.

Highlighting issues, through protests etc. doesn't contribute towards change? I am not sure I agree with you on this. 

[Chez]

6 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

The notion that the U.K. is inherently racist is a ridiculous one, we are one of the most tolerant and accepting nations in the world, if you disagree then I suggest you haven’t travelled much. If anything, our police forces  are far too soft when it comes to dealing with gang culture in our major cities, because they’re too fearful of being labelled racist....and so the stabbings continue. 

your post quoted me, so I'll assume the content was aimed at me. Where have I suggested the UK is inherently racist? Nice straw man. I'd agree, the UK is pretty tolerant, but that doesn't mean there isn't any racism at all.

I've no knowledge or experience of how soft the Police are on gangs due to fear of being labelled a racist, so won't comment.

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

My boyfriend 

A gender neutral term like partner or lover would be more inclusive. 

[saintadjg]

4mins 47 sec I'm impressed 

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

Highlighting issues, through protests etc. doesn't contribute towards change? I am not sure I agree with you on this. 

Then we’ll agree to disagree. Highlighting the issues is only of any use if good and open minded people were unaware or misinformed in the first place. There are cases for it; Greg Clarke being a good example of somebody trying to do the right thing but clearly lacking a little enlightenment. Simply stating, ‘black lives matter’ isn’t imparting any knowledge on society. 

[Chez]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Then we’ll agree to disagree. Highlighting the issues is only of any use if good and open minded people were unaware or misinformed in the first place. There are cases for it; Greg Clarke being a good example of somebody trying to do the right thing but clearly lacking a little enlightenment. Simply stating, ‘black lives matter’ isn’t imparting any knowledge on society. 

No problem. Discussion is good and seeing things from the other point of view essential to find the best solutions to problems. Many people of colour obviously don't think enough is being done. The black lives marches and taking a knee enabled them to express on mass and brought their issue right into the spotlight. "Things are not all good. Things can improve". It created attention. Job done. What happens next? What can be done to improve things? I don't know the answer to that. Three word slogans solve nothing. I hope others with a better understanding of this subject do. 

 

[Lighthouse]

Fair point Chez, if anyone's interested this video adds a bit of flesh to the way I view the situation. It's an older story but as relevant today as it ever was.

 

[Chez]

Very interesting video Lighthouse. Terrific story and not one I was aware of. I watched a BBC (I think) programme about US race issues last year and there was a fella called Daryle Jenkins that had a very different approach and one that I applauded. Your video makes me wonder how effective his (Daryle's) approach is in solving (eradicating) the issue of racism. I guess he is trying to stop it spreading by extremist becoming comfortable preaching their hatred to impressionable people. Very different situation over their compared to the UK of course, but I have read that we have a Proud Boys organisation here in the UK. I wonder which approach should we take to people who are members.

 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Chez

[Turkish]

9 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Fair point Chez, if anyone's interested this video adds a bit of flesh to the way I view the situation. It's an older story but as relevant today as it ever was.

 

It’s a good story, here is his ted talk on it which is a bit longer but also very interesting 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

9 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Fair point Chez, if anyone's interested this video adds a bit of flesh to the way I view the situation. It's an older story but as relevant today as it ever was.

 

Daryl Davis is a genuine hero and his story is remarkable. Also worth hunting out his interview on Joe rogan from a few years ago. 

[Turkish]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

No problem. Discussion is good and seeing things from the other point of view essential to find the best solutions to problems. Many people of colour obviously don't think enough is being done. The black lives marches and taking a knee enabled them to express on mass and brought their issue right into the spotlight. "Things are not all good. Things can improve". It created attention. Job done. What happens next? What can be done to improve things? I don't know the answer to that. Three word slogans solve nothing. I hope others with a better understanding of this subject do. 

 

What more can be done? We’ve got quotas for every job imaginable, if you’re black and out of work I’d suggest it isn’t due to racism in this country. Black support groups, black help groups, anti racism stuff everywhere, people losing their jobs because they might use one word in a whole speech that offends someone on Twitter, middle class people screaming racism every chase they get. Some newspapers claiming pretty much everything in our society is racist. I’d suggest a hell of a lot Is being done, I’d also suggest until people stop looking for racism everywhere and being very excited when they think they find it t’ll never go away. 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

What more can be done? We’ve got quotas for every job imaginable, if you’re black and out of work I’d suggest it isn’t due to racism in this country. Black support groups, black help groups, anti racism stuff everywhere, people losing their jobs because they might use one word in a whole speech that offends someone on Twitter, middle class people screaming racism every chase they get. Some newspapers claiming pretty much everything in our society is racist. I’d suggest a hell of a lot Is being done, I’d also suggest until people stop looking for racism everywhere and being very excited when they think they find it because it’ll never go away. 

Yep. I think it was Morgan Freeman who said the best thing we do to reduce racism is to stop highlighting it. As you say, not only are people doing that, they're looking for it often where it doesn't exist. 

There's no doubt that racism exists. There's also no doubt that positive discrimination and quotas (official or otherwise) exist. There is also no doubt that the latter fuels the former. 

 

[Turkish]

53 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. I think it was Morgan Freeman who said the best thing we do to reduce racism is to stop highlighting it. As you say, not only are people doing that, they're looking for it often where it doesn't exist. 

There's no doubt that racism exists. There's also no doubt that positive discrimination and quotas (official or otherwise) exist. There is also no doubt that the latter fuels the former. 

 

Yeah he did say that, it was to do with black history month which he said is ridiculous. His interviewer was Jewish so when challenged he asked him if he wanted a Jewish history month, to which the answer was no. When asked how do we stop racism then,  He saId stop going on about, stop talking about him as black man. I found myself nodding vigorously in agreement. 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[LuckyNumber7]

48 minutes ago, egg said:

 

There's no doubt that racism exists. There's also no doubt that positive discrimination and quotas (official or otherwise) exist. There is also no doubt that the latter fuels the former. 

 

The latter is the former.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep. I think it was Morgan Freeman who said the best thing we do to reduce racism is to stop highlighting it. As you say, not only are people doing that, they're looking for it often where it doesn't exist. 

There's no doubt that racism exists. There's also no doubt that positive discrimination and quotas (official or otherwise) exist. There is also no doubt that the latter fuels the former. 

 

wasn't Freeman saying `stop calling me black as I don't call you white - stop highlighting that we are of different colour' (I am paraphrasing). I don't think he'd want racism (hatred) ignored, do you?

I think I agree with him. By highlighting the differences in skin colour (black music awards) we suggest there is a difference between us. That said, I imagine a fair few people of colour don't agree with Morgan?  

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Chez

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

wasn't Freeman saying `stop calling me black as I don't call you white - stop highlighting that we are of different colour' (I am paraphrasing). I don't think he'd want racism (hatred) ignored, do you?

I think I agree with him. By highlighting the differences in skin colour (black music awards) we suggest their is a difference between us. That said, I imagine a fair few people of colour don't agree with Morgan?  

isn’t it having your cake and eating it? We want to be equal, we want racism gone, we want no difference based on skin colour, but also we MUST celebrate the achievements of black people. 1, it’s patronising, 2, it’s using colour as differentiations. Those who scream racism  won’t bring themselves to point this out as it’s against the force fed narrative.

As for Morgan Freeman He’s was asked how to stop racism, he’s answer, which I agree with it to stop going on about it, stop calling him a black man, here it is. He’s right.

 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[Chez]

he's saying stop talking about race, not racism, isn't he? He says "stop calling me black'. That doesn't mean he is saying racism (hatred) should be ignored or we should stop talking about racism. In fact he often places racism under the spotlight:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/morgan-freeman-sparks-outcry-tea-party-racist-239872

https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978

So he continues to talk about racism. 

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

isn’t it having your cake and eating it? We want to be equal, we want racism gone, we want no difference based on skin colour, but also we MUST celebrate the achievements of black people. 
 

I agree with that. As I said, I think I agree with Morgan about not calling each other black and white and not having MOBO awards. I think there is a counter argument as the MOBO awards continues, but it seems less supported every year.

[egg]

40 minutes ago, Chez said:

wasn't Freeman saying `stop calling me black as I don't call you white - stop highlighting that we are of different colour' (I am paraphrasing). I don't think he'd want racism (hatred) ignored, do you?

I think I agree with him. By highlighting the differences in skin colour (black music awards) we suggest there is a difference between us. That said, I imagine a fair few people of colour don't agree with Morgan?  

I don't know whether people of colour disagree with Morgan, most of the complaining appears to be done by white middle class people.

You mention the MOBO. It's a good point. Does the ethnic origin of music need to be highlighted? How much music is of black origin anyway? I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of popular music is of black origin, but regardless, why give it special attention? 

As an extension, is Radio 1 xtra necessary? It's a contemporary and black music focused station. But Radio 1 is contemporary music focused, and most of it if black origin. 

There's an argument that both of these things not prejudiced in their own right. 

[Turkish]

35 minutes ago, Chez said:

he's saying stop talking about race, not racism, isn't he? He says "stop calling me black'. That doesn't mean he is saying racism (hatred) should be ignored or we should stop talking about racism. In fact he often places racism under the spotlight:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/morgan-freeman-sparks-outcry-tea-party-racist-239872

https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978

So he continues to talk about racism. 

In that interview He was asked directly “how are we going to get rid of racism?” His answer is to stop going on about It. Stop calling people white men and black men. This would mean an end to quotas, positive discrimination, “celebrating” the achievements of black people whatever that means as well as people jumping up and down every time pointing the finger of racism at everything from going for a walk in the countryside to black people being underrepresented in the refuse collection industry.

[Chez]

I watched One night in Miami yesterday and Sam Cooke pointed out that one day there would be one music chart (there was a separate black music chart at the time in the US) and progress would obviously be when there wasn't a distinction between music from people with different colour skins. MOBO seems to go against that.

I reiterate though, that not highlighting skin colour (as Freeman says) is not the same as not highlighting racism. If and where that exists, it must be addressed. Turkish mentioned that there are lots of groups and efforts doing just that, but until racism is no more then efforts must continue and new ideas and possibly ramping up campaigns are needed. 

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't know whether people of colour disagree with Morgan, most of the complaining appears to be done by white middle class people.

You mention the MOBO. It's a good point. Does the ethnic origin of music need to be highlighted? How much music is of black origin anyway? I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of popular music is of black origin, but regardless, why give it special attention? 

As an extension, is Radio 1 xtra necessary? It's a contemporary and black music focused station. But Radio 1 is contemporary music focused, and most of it if black origin. 

There's an argument that both of these things not prejudiced in their own right. 

This is the thing that does my head in. Middle class white people, living in predominant white towns telling the world how racist everything and everyone is. They are in my view the worst, They claim to be lovely decent people trying to help but their racism is more of a patronising, let’s help the savages as they need educated people like me to help them type of attitude.  

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

In that interview He was asked directly “how are we going to get rid of racism?” His answer is to stop going on about It. Stop calling people white men and black men. This would mean an end to quotas, positive discrimination, “celebrating” the achievements of black people whatever that means as well as people jumping up and down every time pointing the finger of racism at everything from going for a walk in the countryside to black people being underrepresented in the refuse collection industry.

yep, but it doesn't mean ignore (stop going on about) racism.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

In that interview He was asked directly “how are we going to get rid of racism?” His answer is to stop going on about It. Stop calling people white men and black men. This would mean an end to quotas, positive discrimination, “celebrating” the achievements of black people whatever that means as well as people jumping up and down every time pointing the finger of racism at everything from going for a walk in the countryside to black people being underrepresented in the refuse collection industry.

Yep, that's what he says, stop putting barriers and distinctions in the way of unity. 

In a loosely related theme, I watched a programme with Miriam Margolyes the other day. She's a lesbian. She went to a bar in the Australian outback. She introduced herself as lesbian, then proceeded to ask a weathered looking Aussie bloke if he'd ever met one, and when he said yes, she then asked what he called "them". He answered "by their name".

That little exchange applies equally to race, and for me, highlights the perception among many that there is prejudice where none exists. Such assumptions are divisive and prejudiced in themselves. 

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Chez said:

yep, but it doesn't mean ignore (stop going on about) racism.

Then we get to the definition of what racism is, which is a can of worms in itself. Seems to me that anything that mentions skin colour these days is considered racist by someone somewhere. So as far as I can see the only way to get rid of it is to never mention it either positive or negatively. But of course that doesn’t give Matilda from Cirencester a chance to prove how much they care. 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Then we get to the definition of what racism is, which is a can of worms in itself. Seems to me that anything that mentions skin colour these days is considered racist by someone somewhere. So as far as I can see the only way to get rid of it is to never mention it either positive or negatively.

that's fine by me, although when describing someone of colour, it is inevitable that you say some thing like `he/she was black", but racism is more than just language of course.

[The Cat]

38 minutes ago, egg said:

As an extension, is Radio 1 xtra necessary? It's a contemporary and black music focused station. But Radio 1 is contemporary music focused, and most of it if black origin. 

I'd say there's a space for it, much like there's one for 6music. Both overlap a bit with Radio 1 but go further in exploring genres more deeply than Radio 1 which is basically chart fodder for the masses, especially during the daytime.

 

[egg]

15 minutes ago, Chez said:

that's fine by me, although when describing someone of colour, it is inevitable that you say some thing like `he/she was black", but racism is more than just language of course.

Not always, but if it's done, it's not to suggest it's a racist or negative thing. Things need to be looked at in context.

Take the football coach incident a little while ago. The guy was the only black person in a group and had to be quickly identified. The obvious way to describe him was as the black guy. That's what happened, but the reaction was that it was racist. It wasn't, yet we had loads of white middle class people shouting racism, and they even carried on after John Barnes said it was entirely acceptable and that the uproar was stupid. 

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, Chez said:

that's fine by me, although when describing someone of colour, it is inevitable that you say some thing like `he/she was black", but racism is more than just language of course.

Cavani got accused and found guilty of a form of racism for describing his friend as black using a non english word that English people find offensive but isn’t offensive in his own language. Any mention of skin colour in this country unless in a positive, celebrating way these days, appears to be racist and that applies even to people who aren’t English not speaking in English. So it’s seems the only solution is never to mention it but if that is the case then it can’t be mentioned in a celebratory fashion either. It can’t be both ways. 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[egg]

9 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I'd say there's a space for it, much like there's one for 6music. Both overlap a bit with Radio 1 but go further in exploring genres more deeply than Radio 1 which is basically chart fodder for the masses, especially during the daytime.

 

If it's a musical genre thing, fair enough, and I take your point re radio 6. I had not appreciated that radio 1 was more chart based stuff. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Not always, but if it's done, it's not to suggest it's a racist or negative thing. Things need to be looked at in context.

Take the football coach incident a little while ago. The guy was the only black person in a group and had to be quickly identified. The obvious way to describe him was as the black guy. That's what happened, but the reaction was that it was racist. It wasn't, yet we had loads of white middle class people shouting racism, and they even carried on after John Barnes said it was entirely acceptable and that the uproar was stupid. 

Did anything come of that or once the outage had died down people actually realised how pathetic it was and got on with their lives?

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

Did anything come of that or once the outage had died down people actually realised how pathetic it was and got on with their lives?

No idea. I hope the guy got the apology he deserved though. Being wrongly branded a racist is no more acceptable than being a racist. 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

No idea. I hope the guy got the apology he deserved though. Being wrongly branded a racist is no more acceptable than being a racist. 

It’s all gone quiet considering the likes of Gary Linekar were all over it at the time claiming this was the final straw and enough is enough. Funny how they never get pulled up on any of this stuff for incredibly misleading punditry, even though the guys career was on the line. 

Edited 17 January, 2021 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

So what's the verdict on this? A kid posts something racist on social media towards a black man. Should he have been prosecuted as Ian Wright suggests? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55916729

[Weston Super Saint]

Seems like Wright doesn't really know what he wants!  Also, isn't it a little bit weird that Wright received messages that 'hit him so hard' then kept screen grabs of them and reposted them a year later.

Judge Waters has got it spot on.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Seems like Wright doesn't really know what he wants!  Also, isn't it a little bit weird that Wright received messages that 'hit him so hard' then kept screen grabs of them and reposted them a year later.

Judge Waters has got it spot on.

My thoughts are that it's quite good that a judge is responsible for weighing up the available evidence and then coming to a judgement. If it was up to someone like Ian Wright then the mitigating circumstances and context would be irrelevant and this boy would have had his entire life ruined for writing something horribly racist on the internet. 

 

I still don't understand this whole moral panic over assorted weirdos, loners and kids sending racist tweets to a footballer when they've messed up. This strange demand for social media companies to somehow be responsible and demanding that they "take action". No one has ever articulated what action they expect and how they expect it to work. As long as there is a mechanism to instantly communicate online to people then there are going to be idiots who abuse that and send abuse to others whether that is racist, sexist or just general unpleasant comments. Work to find these people if that is possible by all means and punish them when necessary but the sooner legislators in general accept that it's not workable to moderate social media properly and that there is going to be some objectionable content on there the better. Why anyone thinks it's helpful to make a big song and dance about it and offer counselling every time some tool sends abuse to a black footballer I have no idea. Get the comments deleted as soon as possible and deal with the person if they can be identified but that's all that realistically can happen. You will never prevent racist comments in their entirety. 

[egg]

44 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So what's the verdict on this? A kid posts something racist on social media towards a black man. Should he have been prosecuted as Ian Wright suggests? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55916729

My reading is that he was prosecuted and given probation, some training to help him to have better understanding, and had his name all over the media. It seems that Wright's gripe is that the lad doesn't have a permanent stain on his record, although that seems to be a quirk of their legal system - but he was dealt with and punished. 

It's not clear from that article that Wright's forgiveness made much difference to the sentence, and the main thing that made the difference was the kids remorse. That's understandable and would be the same here. 

I didn't see the kids posts, but the sentence seems proportionate based on the article. 

[hypochondriac]

54 minutes ago, egg said:

My reading is that he was prosecuted and given probation, some training to help him to have better understanding, and had his name all over the media. It seems that Wright's gripe is that the lad doesn't have a permanent stain on his record, although that seems to be a quirk of their legal system - but he was dealt with and punished. 

It's not clear from that article that Wright's forgiveness made much difference to the sentence, and the main thing that made the difference was the kids remorse. That's understandable and would be the same here. 

I didn't see the kids posts, but the sentence seems proportionate based on the article. 

Fair comment. It almost seems like Wright is saying that if he had known what would happen with the sentence that he wouldn't have forgiven him? 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Fair comment. It almost seems like Wright is saying that if he had known what would happen with the sentence that he wouldn't have forgiven him? 

Yep, that's how I read it. The impact on the victim is factored into sentence in our system, but I have no idea about their system and it's not clear from the article whether that was the case and the only reference is Wright's forgiveness.

The kids clearly been an idiot, and whether it's on a formal record or not, it's all over the media and he'll be impacted by it for a long time I'd imagine. 

[Lighthouse]

I find it somewhat strange that any celebrity would choose to be on social media and not expect to be abused as basically a default datum. If you have an account you’re instantly exposing yourself to literally the world. Any one of 7.5 billion people could commit a hate crime from 5,000 miles miles away by typing half a dozen words on a screen. To put it into perspective, imagine anyone in the world could steal your wallet in an instant by anonymously tweeting, "@dave steal Dave’s wallet." Nobody would have an account and if they did the BBC wouldn’t bother running stories almost daily saying, "Dave’s wallet stolen again in horrific online theft."

 

I can see why Wright says he’s tired. This will continue long after we’re all dead; you can’t end racism worldwide any more than you can end petty theft. Although that’s not to say we shouldn’t prosecute those we can identify.

[Fan The Flames]

So the take home for you guys in this story is that the victim is wrong to be disappointed that the sentance wasn't greater.

[egg]

27 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So the take home for you guys in this story is that the victim is wrong to be disappointed that the sentance wasn't greater.

The question posed was around the sentence. The sentence seemed proportionate to me. Wright, like most victims, wanted more but it's not his decision. He'd forgiven the lad by all accounts so I'm not sure what more he expected over and above a permanent stain on his record which has happened anyway by all the media stuff. 

On the incident itself, it shouldn't have happened. Social media keeps being used by these idiots to use as a platform for racism. Take our boy  Jankewitz, he deserved criticism for his actions but the racism is unacceptable. We know that, but how do we stop it happening, and how do we react when it does? Sure track the racists down and deal with them, but is the constant focus and publicity helping or hindering? I honestly don't know but gut feeling is that it's not achieving anything positive. Morgan Freeman had something to say about that, and as a black man from the deep south, he knows a bit more than any white man from Hampshire. 

Edited 4 February, 2021 by egg

[whelk]

11 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Seems like Wright doesn't really know what he wants!  Also, isn't it a little bit weird that Wright received messages that 'hit him so hard' then kept screen grabs of them and reposted them a year later.

Judge Waters has got it spot on.

Why is that weird? He clearly is appalled and wants to highlight.

[whelk]

10 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

My thoughts are that it's quite good that a judge is responsible for weighing up the available evidence and then coming to a judgement. If it was up to someone like Ian Wright then the mitigating circumstances and context would be irrelevant and this boy would have had his entire life ruined for writing something horribly racist on the internet. 

 

I still don't understand this whole moral panic over assorted weirdos, loners and kids sending racist tweets to a footballer when they've messed up. This strange demand for social media companies to somehow be responsible and demanding that they "take action". No one has ever articulated what action they expect and how they expect it to work. As long as there is a mechanism to instantly communicate online to people then there are going to be idiots who abuse that and send abuse to others whether that is racist, sexist or just general unpleasant comments. Work to find these people if that is possible by all means and punish them when necessary but the sooner legislators in general accept that it's not workable to moderate social media properly and that there is going to be some objectionable content on there the better. Why anyone thinks it's helpful to make a big song and dance about it and offer counselling every time some tool sends abuse to a black footballer I have no idea. Get the comments deleted as soon as possible and deal with the person if they can be identified but that's all that realistically can happen. You will never prevent racist comments in their entirety. 

Isn’t the action. to remove them from the platform?

agree the outrage and headline grabbing  and earnest reporting is over the top. Of course these scum are almost certainly dysfunctional and should be straightforward to report the abuse and the companies permanently ban if clear cut.

Sky and BBC report it like they’ve uncovered, and are highlighting, some sinister wider movement on the rise when mostly messed up teenagers.

Apparently Captan Tom’s family were also getting abused after he died so there is no depths some cunts won’t go to.

liked Rashford’s response the other day to his abuse. Perfect reply.