Things That are Racist

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

On a slightly different note, given we are talking about 'oppression'

I read this morning that both Manchester United and Liverpool do not promote their 'rainbow laces' and pro-LGBTQ+ campaigns on their Arabic and Indonesian social media accounts. Apparently, doing so will do "more harm than good"

All very weird!

It's not just them. Sky must have forgotten to pack their rainbow microphones when they covered the Joshua/Ruiz rematch Riyadh. Many people don't like virtue signalling but when people immediately pussy out the moment they're confronted with actual prejudice, that really annoys me. Like a teacher who's scared of their disruptive class, so makes only the well behaved pupils stay behind for detention. 

[Turkish]

Whitebox - a term used for unbranded/not very well know brand computer hardware. This is now un PC, needs to be referred to as clear box or given a sector specific name.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It's not really weird. It's a standard large corporate company whose main concern is money not morals. Why would they want to upset those huge markets? 

I know and agree with you.

Time to put 'BLM' in the bin as we can all see through it; whilst we continue to back worthwhile, non-political causes as expected in a tolerant society,

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Do you think people standing around them won’t let them know about their behaviour if the match ends prematurely? Don’t you think that at some point, even drunken morons will realise that their behaviour isn’t being tolerated? It has to stop, do you agree? What do you suggest we do to stop it?

Lol.

Drunken morons will never realise their behaviour isn't being tolerated.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.

Drunken morons will never realise their behaviour isn't being tolerated.

It always amuses me Soggy thumping away at his computer posting from his 97% white, middle class village about how terrible racism is in-between scrolling through the Guardian which tells him the latest racist outrage that fish and chip shops are racist because they dont make black batter or something similar. 

[whelk]

8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Perhaps you are just more tolerant of racism than normal, decent people? What has been done so far to stop these morons from abusing people that has been effective. As I am sure you are aware, this has been going on for decades and it is time something was done that actually makes a difference. What are your suggestions? Or doesn’t it bother you that much?

Do you actually ever attend football matches?

[Manuel]

Ignoring them seems to work.  Home to Leicester, a few years back, the "just a town full of p*kis" chant from behind me was completely ignored by all in the Northam despite some perseverance by a loud mouth.  Made him look silly I thought.  Hope he got the message.

[Weston Super Saint]

Almost everyone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40124781

Quote

Few people openly admit to holding racist beliefs but many psychologists claim most of us are nonetheless unintentionally racist. 

 

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Almost everyone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40124781

 

It's why this sort of thing is disgusting. Not only does it devalue actual racism, by claiming that you can be unintentionally racist they can effectively call anyone they like racist. It's pathetic and best ignored (and finally the government seem to have cottoned on as they have banned implicit bias training for civil servants.)

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's why this sort of thing is disgusting. Not only does it devalue actual racism, by claiming that you can be unintentionally racist they can effectively call anyone they like racist. It's pathetic and best ignored (and finally the government seem to have cottoned on as they have banned implicit bias training for civil servants.)

You can take the test if you follow that link. My answer was that i have a slight preference for African americans over european ones. So as a now proven non racist i am better than most of you. 

[Manuel]

Your responses suggested a slight automatic association for American with White American and Foreign with Native American.

Odd because that's not really how I feel.  Perhaps I don't know how I feel.  Maybe this test knows more about me than I do. 

[Manuel]

I once worked with a girl who said she wasn't very keen on Somalians.  I asked why and she said that where she used to work there was a fairly large Somalian population and whenever she had to deal with Somalians whilst at work she found them unpleasant and difficult to deal with. 

I'm still not sure whether that was a reasonable position.  I mean you can't deny her her experiences and I couldn't really blame her for making an association based on her experiences.  

[Weston Super Saint]

Your responses suggested a moderate automatic preference for Black people over White people.

Your result is described as an "Automatic preference for Black people over White people" if you were faster responding when Black people and Good are assigned to the same response key than when White people and Good were classified with the same key. Your score is described as an "Automatic preference for White people over Black people" if the opposite occurred.

Your automatic preference may be described as "slight", "moderate", "strong", or "no preference". This indicates the strength of your automatic preference.

[sadoldgit]

19 hours ago, whelk said:

Do you actually ever attend football matches?

What exactly does that have to do with how racism is treated within professional football? Did you notice that both teams left the field of play in a European match recently do to an alleged racist incident? Are you going to ask them if they attend football matches too? If it is going to stop it needs to be shown that it will not be tolerated. If you can come up with something better, go ahead.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What exactly does that have to do with how racism is treated within professional football? Did you notice that both teams left the field of play in a European match recently do to an alleged racist incident? Are you going to ask them if they attend football matches too? If it is going to stop it needs to be shown that it will not be tolerated. If you can come up with something better, go ahead.

I take it that's a no then, what a surprise. 

Here's a question for you Soggy, is describing a black man, the only black man in a group of men, as a black man racist? 

[whelk]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

What exactly does that have to do with how racism is treated within professional football? Did you notice that both teams left the field of play in a European match recently do to an alleged racist incident? Are you going to ask them if they attend football matches too? If it is going to stop it needs to be shown that it will not be tolerated. If you can come up with something better, go ahead.

Because you seem to imply these are such racist events that warrant walk offs. Seems like you quite like the thought of it.

so you clearly think that what happened at PSG was a colossal racist event. Many abhor racism still feel it was absolutely stupid.

[Lighthouse]

I wonder how that would have gone down had it not been played behind closed doors. If you get 60,000 people, some of them spending over £100 for transport, food, match ticket and whatever and/or travelling a couple of hours to see their team, they aren’t going to be too happy to see a match abandoned after 20 minutes because one official called one coach, "that black guy." 

[Lord Duckhunter]

The bloke who abolished slavery in America. 
 

San Francisco to rename Abraham Lincoln High School because former president did not demonstrate that 'black lives mattered to him'

Edited 15 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[sadoldgit]

16 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I wonder how that would have gone down had it not been played behind closed doors. If you get 60,000 people, some of them spending over £100 for transport, food, match ticket and whatever and/or travelling a couple of hours to see their team, they aren’t going to be too happy to see a match abandoned after 20 minutes because one official called one coach, "that black guy." 

Perhaps if the only racist comments were just “ that black guy” it wouldn’t be so much of an issue? Perhaps people spending £100 to attend a match will help the stewards and the police sort out racists in crowds because they want to see the whole match? 

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Perhaps if the only racist comments were just “ that black guy” it wouldn’t be so much of an issue? Perhaps people spending £100 to attend a match will help the stewards and the police sort out racists in crowds because they want to see the whole match? 

Firstly, you’ve changed the question. We were talking about the PSG incident, which didn’t involve any crowd members or the Police and whatever you think of the officials’ language, his intentions were at least honest. Secondly, what do you mean by people like us, "sorting out the racists in the crowd"? It’s not as if they get off Scott free, the perpetrators are usually identified by CCTV and arrested/banned as necessary. Are you saying that we should take it upon ourselves to pile in and kick the living sh*t out of anyone suspected of racial abuse?

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Perhaps if the only racist comments were just “ that black guy” it wouldn’t be so much of an issue? Perhaps people spending £100 to attend a match will help the stewards and the police sort out racists in crowds because they want to see the whole match? 

when was the last time you personally heard a racist comment at a match?

[Turkish]

23 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The bloke who abolished slavery in America. 
 

San Francisco to rename Abraham Lincoln High School because former president did not demonstrate that 'black lives mattered to him'

Rightly so. All abolishing slavery does is confirm that there is nothing white people won’t do to cover their racism. 

[Turkish]

Accurately portrayed dramas about royal history

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/why-are-people-losing-their-heads-over-a-black-anne-boleyn
 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Google. Therefore if you use it you are supporting racism

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55281862

 

 

 

Edited 16 December, 2020 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Google. Therefore if you use it you are supporting racism

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55281862

 

 

 

That's a really weird article. It says the interview with the woman in question was "edited for brevity" then gives an interview with robotic answers in short paragraphs. I'm assuming this woman has some sort of mental disability like autism? There's not many other conclusions to come to when reading that. She sound like Matthew Le God. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's a really weird article. It says the interview with the woman in question was "edited for brevity" then gives an interview with robotic answers in short paragraphs. I'm assuming this woman has some sort of mental disability like autism? There's not many other conclusions to come to when reading that. She sound like Matthew Le God. 

Disagree. The only conclusion I can draw from the interview is that her skin colour is the only reason why she lost her job and will boycott google from Now on, that’ll teach ‘em.

[Lighthouse]

56 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Accurately portrayed dramas about royal history

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/why-are-people-losing-their-heads-over-a-black-anne-boleyn
 

 

 

I had to chuckle at her remarks about Jesus. Yes, of all the documented aspects of the life of Jesus Christ, which nutter would pick ‘being white’ as the detail which might not be accurate. 😆

[skintsaint]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Accurately portrayed dramas about royal history

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/why-are-people-losing-their-heads-over-a-black-anne-boleyn
 

 

 

Imagine for example, Ray Winstone playing Martin Luther King Jr in some historical drama. The racists would lose their heads over it.😄

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Imagine for example, Ray Winstone playing Martin Luther King Jr in some historical drama. The racists would lose their heads over it.😄

Mental!  How many bona fide 'racists' are going to watch an historical drama?  How many of those are going to watch an historical drama about Martin Luther King Jr?

[sadoldgit]

19 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Firstly, you’ve changed the question. We were talking about the PSG incident, which didn’t involve any crowd members or the Police and whatever you think of the officials’ language, his intentions were at least honest. Secondly, what do you mean by people like us, "sorting out the racists in the crowd"? It’s not as if they get off Scott free, the perpetrators are usually identified by CCTV and arrested/banned as necessary. Are you saying that we should take it upon ourselves to pile in and kick the living sh*t out of anyone suspected of racial abuse?

Not at all, but calling them out for their behaviour and helping to identify them will help. If they are sitting amongst people who let them know their behaviour is unwelcome that is a start, right? We are talking about one game when the racism was questionable. Players have been talking about leaving the pitch for some time.

This has been blighting football for over 50 years and if nothing more drastic is done it will still be an issue in 50 years time. Instead of a bunch of people who have never been racially abused in their lives deciding how to deal with it, perhaps the people on the end of the abuse should decide which action to take?

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Not at all, but calling them out for their behaviour and helping to identify them will help. If they are sitting amongst people who let them know their behaviour is unwelcome that is a start, right? We are talking about one game when the racism was questionable. Players have been talking about leaving the pitch for some time.

This has been blighting football for over 50 years and if nothing more drastic is done it will still be an issue in 50 years time. Instead of a bunch of people who have never been racially abused in their lives deciding how to deal with it, perhaps the people on the end of the abuse should decide which action to take?

I'll ask you again. when was the last time you personally heard racism at a football match? Do you think things have improved in the last 50 years? 

Why are you scared to answer?

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Turkish

[wadesmith]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I'll ask you again. when was the last time you personally heard racism at a football match? Do you think things have improved in the last 50 years? 

I haven’t heard a racist comment at the football in about 25 years. It’s seen as socially unacceptable to make racist comments  nowadays..whereas in the 70’s/80’s it certainly wasn’t reported/clamped down on. I remember watching a game on the BBC where a ‘WHU National Front’ banner was on full display the whole game. It wasn’t mentioned by the commentators, and remained on display for 90 minutes. Have things improved?...I’m not sure...I don’t think so. I think the English are still pretty racist...we’re just better at suppressing it than we used to be. In fact the only place where there appears to be no racists is this forum....which is so refreshing.

[View From The Top]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I'll ask you again. when was the last time you personally heard racism at a football match? Do you think things have improved in the last 50 years? 

Without a doubt it's improved and you very rarely hear anything racist in the grounds and when it does happen it tends to get called out straight away. I'm not sure we should be celebrating not throwing bananas at players though even though I understand and agree with the point made.

What I will say though is that as middle aged white males we need to check our privilege in every now and then and pay heed to those who don't share it so we can understand the issues that they do, most certainly, face and perhaps help change mindsets.

You know I grew up in Bitterne and my neighbour and very good friend was mixed race. Both of us worked our nuts off to make something of our lives, and I know you have too. Both of us suffered massive ups and downs along the way. When I spoke to him in the summer during the height of the BLM stuff he said something I'd not really considered. He said that yes, we'd both come from disadvantaged backgrounds, been poor, overlooked, council house scum but I'd always have one advantage that he'd never had, the colour of my skin. That whilst we'd both worked hard, his slope had been steeper than mine and he'd had to prove himself over and over again. Looking back, he was correct, I just didn't see it.

One of my colleagues is an Asian fella, early 30s, 4th generation Brit. Drives a nice Merc. Stopped by the OB on numerous occasions in the Potteries, even on his way to work.

I've never been stopped in my car, nor has anyone else I work with who is white but the West Indian lad who works here has.

Both have been stopped this term. Both times the OB used the "County Lines" excuse.

It's this sort of stuff that perhaps we've been blind to. It's certainly less obvious to our demographic, whether by ignorance, wilful or otherwise or simply because we cannot fathom that this sort of thing happens in a world what we don't populate but it does happen and it is based on race.

It's these sort of things that need to be addressed and if players taking a knee helps people realise that racism is still alive and that action still needs to be taken, regardless of the progress made, then I'm good with that.

 

 

[Turkish]

Is it racist to expect South American people who have lived in England for a couple of months to automatically have extensive knowledge of English including words that might be offensive in English but not Spanish?

 

*checks colour of person* No the damn racist white person should know we'd be offended.

Edinson Cavani apologises for using racial term in Instagram post | Manchester United | The Guardian

 

 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, View From The Top said:

Without a doubt it's improved and you very rarely hear anything racist in the grounds and when it does happen it tends to get called out straight away. I'm not sure we should be celebrating not throwing bananas at players though even though I understand and agree with the point made.

What I will say though is that as middle aged white males we need to check our privilege in every now and then and pay heed to those who don't share it so we can understand the issues that they do, most certainly, face and perhaps help change mindsets.

You know I grew up in Bitterne and my neighbour and very good friend was mixed race. Both of us worked our nuts off to make something of our lives, and I know you have too. Both of us suffered massive ups and downs along the way. When I spoke to him in the summer during the height of the BLM stuff he said something I'd not really considered. He said that yes, we'd both come from disadvantaged backgrounds, been poor, overlooked, council house scum but I'd always have one advantage that he'd never had, the colour of my skin. That whilst we'd both worked hard, his slope had been steeper than mine and he'd had to prove himself over and over again. Looking back, he was correct, I just didn't see it.

One of my colleagues is an Asian fella, early 30s, 4th generation Brit. Drives a nice Merc. Stopped by the OB on numerous occasions in the Potteries, even on his way to work.

I've never been stopped in my car, nor has anyone else I work with who is white but the West Indian lad who works here has.

Both have been stopped this term. Both times the OB used the "County Lines" excuse.

It's this sort of stuff that perhaps we've been blind to. It's certainly less obvious to our demographic, whether by ignorance, wilful or otherwise or simply because we cannot fathom that this sort of thing happens in a world what we don't populate but it does happen and it is based on race.

It's these sort of things that need to be addressed and if players taking a knee helps people realise that racism is still alive and that action still needs to be taken, regardless of the progress made, then I'm good with that.

 

 

Not sure what white privilege i've ever experienced, although i grew up on a predominately white council estate when i talk to black people from similar backgrounds our childhood/young adult experiences were pretty similar and we are where we are in life now due to effort and choices. 

[wadesmith]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not sure what white privilege i've ever experienced, although i grew up on a predominately white council estate when i talk to black people from similar backgrounds our childhood/young adult experiences were pretty similar and we are where we are in life now due to effort and choices. 

Sometimes I read you’re posts Turkish & think you’re quite an inspiring character. You’re a sort of David Brent/Gandhi/Martin Luther King hybrid, you a working class lad who doesn’t seem to see colour, you don’t judge. I actually don’t think you realise how special you are. 

Edited 17 December, 2020 by wadesmith

[Manuel]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

Accurately portrayed dramas about royal history

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/why-are-people-losing-their-heads-over-a-black-anne-boleyn
 

 

 

It certainly goes against the current trend of movies, taking a lot of effort to ensure the actor looks as much like the part as possible.  Tom Hardy in the Crays for example.  David Tennant as Neilson.  Many more examples out there.  Either accuracy of appearance matters or it doesn't.  

edit - and that Guardian article is just horrible, assuming anyone who may have an opinion on it are "racists".  A good example of why I used to read that paper but haven't for a long time.  

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Manuel

[wadesmith]

Ben Kingsley played Ghandi

[View From The Top]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not sure what white privilege i've ever experienced, although i grew up on a predominately white council estate when i talk to black people from similar backgrounds our childhood/young adult experiences were pretty similar and we are where we are in life now due to effort and choices. 

That's part of the problem, we're not aware of it but there is no doubt it exists.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, wadesmith said:

Sometimes I read you’re posts Turkish & think you’re quite an inspiring character. You’re a sort of David Brent/Gandhi/Martin Luther King hybrid, you a working class lad who doesn’t seem to see colour, you don’t judge. I actually don’t think you realise how special you are. 

thanks pal, apart from the David Brent bit you've pretty much nailed it.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, View From The Top said:

That's part of the problem, we're not aware of it but there is no doubt it exists.

maybe for the upper classes, but that's a class issue not a colour one. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Manuel said:

It certainly goes against the current trend of movies, taking a lot of effort to ensure the actor looks as much like the part as possible.  Tom Hardy in the Crays for example.  David Tennant as Neilson.  Many more examples out there.  Either accuracy of appearance matters or it doesn't.  

edit - and that Guardian article is just horrible, assuming anyone who may have an opinion on it are "racists".  A good example of why I used to read that paper but haven't for a long time.  

This remake of titanic might not be very accurate but at least it'll have a chance of an oscar. 

 

 

Oscars: Only diverse films will be considered for best picture - BBC News

[View From The Top]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

maybe for the upper classes, but that's a class issue not a colour one. 

You think black working class lads still had the exact same opportunities as white working class lads and that they've faced no more barriers than you or I professionally?

Really?

Blimey.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, wadesmith said:

Ben Kingsley played Ghandi

And did a good job of it.

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

You think black working class lads still had the exact same opportunities as white working class lads and that they've faced no more barriers than you or I professionally?

Really?

Blimey.

What barriers to black working class kids face that white working class kids dont? 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

What barriers to black working class kids face that white working class kids dont? 

Er.. racism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417

[Turkish]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Er.. racism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417

proves the point, surname Mohammed didn't change did it. How do they know from a name if someone is a working class black or white kid? What colour would you think Theo Walcott, Che Adams, Kyle Walker Peters were if you'd never seen them before? Plenty of white kids called Theo, Che and Kyle too. Or maybe like most normal people it probably wouldn't even enter your head, you wouldn't think "oh Kyle, he must be black, i wont interview him"

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Turkish

[aintforever]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

proves the point, surname Mohammed didn't change did it. How do they know from a name if someone is a working class black or white kid? What colour would you think Theo Walcott, Che Adams, Kyle Walker Peters were if you'd never seen them before? Plenty of white kids called Theo, Che and Kyle too. Or maybe like most normal people it probably wouldn't even enter your head, you wouldn't think "oh Kyle, he must be black, i wont interview him"

How does this possibly prove your point:

“The only thing that they changed was the applicant's name, which they based on their ethnic background.

While 24% of white British applicants received a call back from UK employers, only 15% of ethnic minority applicants did.

Compared to White British applicants, people of: 

• Pakistani heritage had to make 70% more applications
• Nigerian and South Asian heritage 80% more applications
• Middle Eastern and north African heritage 90% more applications”

[Manuel]

Wouldn't changing your name to a more "English" one be considered cultural appropriation?  I thought that was frowned upon.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How does this possibly prove your point:

“The only thing that they changed was the applicant's name, which they based on their ethnic background.

While 24% of white British applicants received a call back from UK employers, only 15% of ethnic minority applicants did.

Compared to White British applicants, people of: 

• Pakistani heritage had to make 70% more applications
• Nigerian and South Asian heritage 80% more applications
• Middle Eastern and north African heritage 90% more applications”

Because is you bothered to read the thread rather than jumping on any chance to scream racism you’ll see that the discussion is about what barriers do working class black kids have compared to White kids. As you have proven by pointing out judging by their names isn’t a barrier as many many black and white kids have similar names. Hence why I gave the example of 3 black footballers who you’d have no idea what colour they were just from their name. Come on, keep up!