Things That are Racist

[egg]

6 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

So if all the players were black how would he have identified him?

Number? Name on their shirt? A bit different to the only black guy on a group, who's name wouldn't have been known to him, and who's must obvious distinguishing feature is his skin colour.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Who decides this weeks rules / nuances? Where can we find them? 

It seems to me that they're determined arbitrarily after the event. 

Greg Clarke said himself that we couldn't keep up with the changes. I only found out the other day that LGBT is no longer. Apparently there's a Q on the end, possibly a random +. If someone decides this shit, perhaps have a bit of cross society discussion, and then let us all know. 

Some words are plainly unacceptable, but amongst all the posts on this thread, not one person has said how describing the only black man amongst a group of non black men last night was in any way derogatory, racist, unacceptable, etc. 

Calling people "coloured" hasn't been acceptable for at least 20 years. Someone in Greg Clarke's position, with a degree of responsibility for overseeing policies on race, really has to do better. It's not that hard to keep up if you take the time to learn

[Turkish]

29 minutes ago, egg said:

Exactly. Frankly, you have to be a bit of an idiot to see it any differently. 

That’s why Tajjuk doesn’t get it 

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

So if all the players were black how would he have identified him?

As I understand it, they weren’t. 

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Calling people "coloured" hasn't been acceptable for at least 20 years. Someone in Greg Clarke's position, with a degree of responsibility for overseeing policies on race, really has to do better. It's not that hard to keep up if you take the time to learn

He said coloured people which is apparently  racist but if he’d said people of colour that would have been perfectly acceptable. That’s where we are at here. It’s ridiculous 

[Lord Duckhunter]

38 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

So how would he have identified him if they were all black?
 

But they weren’t. 
 

What if there was a chick. If you’re not allowed to say “the black one” without being racist, how would you describe the bird without being sexist, “the long haired one”, “the short one”?
 

Here’s the coaching staff, there’s a bloke with his head on upside down, there’s a young Santa Claus, couple of hipsters. Most people would say there’s a  black bloke as well.  If I asked a bird which was the fittest in the picture, and she thought it was the black bloke, what would she say, “the bloke with the short hair, with a white collar turned up”. No, she’d say “the black bloke” . I’m also pretty sure if he’d rushed into the stand and given a supporter who’d had a heart attack CPR, when asked which member of coaching staff it was , you’d say “the black bloke”. You wouldn’t say “ it was Pierre Webo”, and even if you did name him , when asked “which one is that” you’d say “the black one”. 
 

 

Edited 9 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Ted Bates Statue]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Some words are plainly unacceptable, but amongst all the posts on this thread, not one person has said how describing the only black man amongst a group of non black men last night was in any way derogatory, racist, unacceptable, etc. 

If someone uses a word in their language, that sounds nearly identical to a highly derogatory word towards a person from a group that have historically been heavily discriminated against using that very same word, it shouldn't take a genius to realise that there could be trouble ahead. This is not a new phenomenon.

Notwithstanding the above, I perceived no intent in yesterday's incident, and therefore certain that the 4th official will be exonerated. It would also be interesting to find out why the red card needed to be issued so early in the first place.

Language is a funny thing and isn't it amazing how just a couple of letters here and there can be the difference between causing massive upset. That's etiquette for you and it's been around forever, constantly evolving. Most of us figure it out somehow, although I can never remember what cutlery I'm supposed to be using. Still, we get by.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

If someone uses a word in their language, that sounds nearly identical to a highly derogatory word towards a person from a group that have historically been heavily discriminated against using that very same word, it shouldn't take a genius to realise that there could be trouble ahead. This is not a new phenomenon.

Notwithstanding the above, I perceived no intent in yesterday's incident, and therefore certain that the 4th official will be exonerated. It would also be interesting to find out why the red card needed to be issued so early in the first place.

Language is a funny thing and isn't it amazing how just a couple of letters here and there can be the difference between causing massive upset. That's etiquette for you and it's been around forever, constantly evolving. Most of us figure it out somehow, although I can never remember what cutlery I'm supposed to be using. Still, we get by.

This issue wasn't about subtlety of language. It was because a bloke identified the only black bloke amongst a group of people as the black guy. It was a trivial thing, and I suspect that the woke brigade on here would never have piped down had John Barnes not stated the bloody obvious. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

If someone uses a word in their language, that sounds nearly identical to a highly derogatory word towards a person from a group that have historically been heavily discriminated against using that very same word, it shouldn't take a genius to realise that there could be trouble ahead. This is not a new phenomenon.

Notwithstanding the above, I perceived no intent in yesterday's incident, and therefore certain that the 4th official will be exonerated. It would also be interesting to find out why the red card needed to be issued so early in the first place.

Language is a funny thing and isn't it amazing how just a couple of letters here and there can be the difference between causing massive upset. That's etiquette for you and it's been around forever, constantly evolving. Most of us figure it out somehow, although I can never remember what cutlery I'm supposed to be using. Still, we get by.

He said the Romanian word for black ffs. So you’re now asking people who may not speak English not to say perfectly acceptable words from their own language in case it offends English speaking people. Ridiculous 

[saintquin]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

"the black one" could be seen as derogatory in certain contexts. 

So if he said the non white one would that be ok?

To me he would have meant the same thing but without saying black. I think that would more offensive as it would sound like being black is inferior to being white. 

I accept I may be wrong but, I'm sure some, if not lots, of people that get offended easily do so because of their own insecurities. I'm not saying people should accept everything bad thing said about them or peoples opinions of them that are incorrect.  

Many people get confused about the word nigger when they hear it said on songs sung by black people, surely if it's offensive then it's offensive no matter who says it.

I'm sure I've heard (on Parkinson?) Ali say he wants to beat the white bloke yet he is idolised by many white people. What would black, and white people come to that, think of Cooper if he said he wants to beat the black bloke!

As I've mentioned in another post, being dyslexic I find it very hard to put into writing what I'm (trying to) thinking in my head.

[East Kent Saint]

Wasn’t Ba complaining that the 4th official said “that black guy” rather than “the black guy” ?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I'm on the "woke" side but i think we have to say there's a fair chance this was a misunderstanding, and we won't know the truth until there's a proper inquiry

[rallyboy]

It's not racist, but it's ignorant and confirms the speaker is ill-informed about his own job.

An official in the Champions' League should know who he's dealing with and he should know that referring to someone just by colour is rude and leaves him open to criticism.

He should also know that in this case his own language is open to massive misunderstanding.

Like Clark, not racist, just out of touch with the basic requirements of his job.

And if people still think it's not backward to describe anyone firstly by their colour, there's no point in debating as it's too late for them.

 

 

 

 

 

[washsaint]

2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

It's not racist, but it's ignorant and confirms the speaker is ill-informed about his own job.

An official in the Champions' League should know who he's dealing with and he should know that referring to someone just by colour is rude and leaves him open to criticism.

He should also know that in this case his own language is open to massive misunderstanding.

Like Clark, not racist, just out of touch with the basic requirements of his job.

And if people still think it's not backward to describe anyone firstly by their colour, there's no point in debating as it's too late for them.

 

 

 

 

 

What a f***** load of pony.  What a bunch of hysterical, woke, whining illiberal tarts that are so full of themselves and patting themselves in the back for their 'right on' attitude.  Condescending, b****x of the highest order.

Is John Barnes racist too as it doesn't fit your ridiculous woke agenda?

Highly likely people are going to look very, very stupid having reacted to what is, essentially, a non-event.  

Next time police issue a description of a "middle aged, Caucasian male" are all you woke T***s going to jump up and down and scream "racism"?

[skintsaint]

Officials will not be charged with anything here imo and both teams will get hefty fines for just walking off the pitch.

[Pedantic Pete]

4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Officials will not be charged with anything here imo and both teams will get hefty fines for just walking off the pitch.

I don't think they can afford to fine the teams. For a long time it has been said that people should stand up to racism and whatever the circumstances the players felt aggrieved enough to walk off on mass. Even if the investigation completely exonerates the 4th official. I don't see how fining the teams would demonstrate support to eradicate racism. It would demonstrate a lack of empathy and pile further pressure on a player in a situation in the future which he/she felt was not appropriate.

 

[Dorchester Saint]

In what is one of the most tolerant and welcoming countries in the world, I think it’s fair to say that BLM have achieved exactly what they set out to achieve......division where it barely existed. 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Dorchester Saint said:

In what is one of the most tolerant and welcoming countries in the world, I think it’s fair to say that BLM have achieved exactly what they set out to achieve......division where it barely existed. 

 

Yep and the sad thing is that they will use that division that they invented to justify their continued existence. Insidious. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

In what is one of the most tolerant and welcoming countries in the world, I think it’s fair to say that BLM have achieved exactly what they set out to achieve......division where it barely existed. 

 

I assume you are white? Maybe you didn't see division and injustice but black and other communities certainly felt it

[whelk]

4 hours ago, Pedantic Pete said:

I don't think they can afford to fine the teams. For a long time it has been said that people should stand up to racism and whatever the circumstances the players felt aggrieved enough to walk off on mass. Even if the investigation completely exonerates the 4th official. I don't see how fining the teams would demonstrate support to eradicate racism. It would demonstrate a lack of empathy and pile further pressure on a player in a situation in the future which he/she felt was not appropriate.

 

Plenty would have applauded if Rudiger had walked off when in end claims proved baseless.

walking off for this was brainless but as so sensitive no one will want to wade in with fines.

[whelk]

4 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

In what is one of the most tolerant and welcoming countries in the world, I think it’s fair to say that BLM have achieved exactly what they set out to achieve......division where it barely existed. 

 

Yet you happy to think everyone is a woke leftie if they disagree with you. 

[wadesmith]

If the guy in question had been Asian, ie from  Sri Lanka, India, Bangladesh or Pakistan, would have been acceptable for the fourth official to refer to him as ‘The Brown Guy’?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

If the guy in question had been Asian, ie from  Sri Lanka, India, Bangladesh or Pakistan, would have been acceptable for the fourth official to refer to him as ‘The Brown Guy’?

Are you assuming all people from Asian are one skin colour? How racist.

[Turkish]

56 minutes ago, whelk said:

Plenty would have applauded if Rudiger had walked off when in end claims proved baseless.

walking off for this was brainless but as so sensitive no one will want to wade in with fines.

Watch the loonie lefties be outraged that UEFA have brushed it all under the carpet again if nothing is done.

[Saint_Jonny]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

He said coloured people which is apparently  racist but if he’d said people of colour that would have been perfectly acceptable. That’s where we are at here. It’s ridiculous 

Fortunately you don't get to decide what is or isn't offensive to a demographic different to your own. 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

If the guy in question had been Asian, ie from  Sri Lanka, India, Bangladesh or Pakistan, would have been acceptable for the fourth official to refer to him as ‘The Brown Guy’?

False equivalence, 'brown' is used as a derogatory term, 'black' isn't.

If someone referred to me as 'that white guy' I wouldn't be offended. If someone said, "honky cue ball over there needs an early bath." I probably would.

[rallyboy]

Woke?

🤣😅😂

 

[Charlie Wayman]

5 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

In what is one of the most tolerant and welcoming countries in the world, I think it’s fair to say that BLM have achieved exactly what they set out to achieve......division where it barely existed. 

 

If you believe that you will believe anything. A preposterous notion.

[egg]

46 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Fortunately you don't get to decide what is or isn't offensive to a demographic different to your own. 

That's the thing though, we do. We're judged on our words, so we have to decide whether they'll likely to cause offence. Where there is a problem is that it's hard to know what is offensive this week, and as per the PSG issue this week, people take offence when they plainly shouldn't.

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

That's the thing though, we do. We're judged on our words, so we have to decide whether they'll likely to cause offence. Where there is a problem is that it's hard to know what is offensive this week, and as per the PSG issue this week, people take offence when they plainly shouldn't.

Quite. When everything and anything has the potential to be offensive, when you can lose your job due a slip of the tongue then it's impossible. I have 3 mates called Dan, two are white one of them is black, since the age of about 3 my son has referred to the black one as Black uncle Dan, does that mean he too was racist before he even knew what racism is? 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

If you believe that you will believe anything. A preposterous notion.

I believe it.

[East Kent Saint]

Welcoming and tolerant ? FFS 

BLM is an American thing , it won’t get much traction in the UK .

In the UK we will be worried about getting enough food etc , thanks to Boris. 

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Fortunately you don't get to decide what is or isn't offensive to a demographic different to your own. 

Yes you do. By you I mean society of course. The alternative is that any demographic can retroactively decide they find something offensive and call someone a racist which is clearly insane. 

[whelk]

Every PL manager getting asked about the PSG thing. People too scared to speak their minds as will be branded. Guarantee the clubs comms person will have them well drilled as to what to say

I think the walk off as stupid but equally Millwall booing was obnoxious. Am I a racist leftie? I like John Barnes take on things - no hyperbole with him and clearly wants to tackle racism

Edited 10 December, 2020 by whelk

[Ted Bates Statue]

22 hours ago, Turkish said:

He said the Romanian word for black ffs. So you’re now asking people who may not speak English not to say perfectly acceptable words from their own language in case it offends English speaking people. Ridiculous 

I'm not asking. Thought I made that apparent when I pointed out why I think the 4th official will be exonerated.

Anyway, interesting point on what is acceptable in other countries, so what are your thoughts on the Suarez - Evra incident being blown out of proportion? Not the most contemporary story out there but I wasn't paying attention at the time. I believe his defence was that he was new to Europe at the time and that what he said was perfectly fine coming from Uruguay...

I imagine most football supporters assumed guilt on the basis that a) he was playing for Liverpool, they went OTT in supporting him and b) he already had form for being a deviant on the pitch. But mostly (a). I don't recall any suggestion of injustice on here.

[saintquin]

5 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Fortunately you don't get to decide what is or isn't offensive to a demographic different to your own. 

Then who does? Somebody hast too.

If it's the  people who are offended, in this case mostly black people. The problem then is not all black people are offended.

Last night, I think, was the MOBO awards which celebrates music of black origin. I and, I'm sure most people have no problem with the word black being used as a description of skin colour in this. So how can the word black be unacceptable to describe a person of black skin in other ways when it's obvious not meant in an derogative way?

 Of course it should never be acceptable to use in an offensive way.

Sadly I personally I don't think racism will ever go away, at least not in anybody's, who's alive now, lifetime!

Edited 10 December, 2020 by saintquin
spelling

[East Kent Saint]

Is it Racism or just natural human tribalism ?  all people seem to be tribal to some extent .

[Dorchester Saint]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I assume you are white? Maybe you didn't see division and injustice but black and other communities certainly felt it

Listen pal, in 25 years military service I worked with many folk of various ethnicities and considered them brothers and sisters. I also had the misfortune to visit many truly racist and intolerant countries, so I think I’ve enough experience to say that the U.K. is one of the most tolerant countries in the world, why else do so many from all over the world and from so many ethnic backgrounds want to come and live and work here?? 

Edited 10 December, 2020 by Dorchester Saint

[sfc1976]

If this is the state of 'racism' today then we have come a considerable way.

Racism is big business, and increasingly keeps large numbers in employment. Sometimes there simply isn't enough racism out there to meet the demand for it.

Be kind to these folks and take offensive when told. They are often left to feed on scraps.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

4 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Listen pal, in 25 years military service I worked with many folk of various ethnicities and considered them brothers and sisters. I also had the misfortune to visit many truly racist and intolerant countries, so I think I’ve enough experience to say that the U.K. is one of the most tolerant countries in the world, why else do so many from all over the world and from so many ethnic backgrounds want to come and live and work here?? 

I agree that the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Why do you think so many people of colour think there is a problem? Are they making it up? Deluded? Why does BLM exist as a movement in the UK if the UK is so perfect?

Do you really think it really been cooked up by Marxist lefties in order to overthrow capitalism? And that they've been so successful they've managed to hoodwink the entire football establishment and many of the players?

The movement has clearly hit on something real and powerful

Edited 10 December, 2020 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Weston Super Saint]

Charities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55260495

Quote

The Westway Trust, which manages land under the Westway road for the local community, commissioned a review in 2018 over allegations of racism.

The review found the trust had a "legacy of institutional racism" and should make a formal public apology.

 

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree that the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Why do you think so many people of colour think there is a problem? Are they making it up? Deluded? Why does BLM exist as a movement in the UK if the UK is so perfect?

Do you really think it really been cooked up by Marxist lefties in order to overthrow capitalism? And that they've been so successful they've managed to hoodwink the entire football establishment and many of the players?

The movement has clearly hit on something real and powerful

I think that some people view unequal outcomes as an example of some sort of structural racism rather than looking at the reality. I think British black people have been heavily influenced by American media and the Internet and have exported some very real American issues over here - hence the taking of the knee. I think a percentage of people believe what they are told to believe and don't look at something being the very surface level (that's true of both sides.) I think another percentage have had some examples of actual racism in their lives and want to do something about it. Personally I think this campaign has been more divisive than constructive and won't help prevent any future racist incidents. 

[egg]

9 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree that the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Why do you think so many people of colour think there is a problem? Are they making it up? Deluded? Why does BLM exist as a movement in the UK if the UK is so perfect?

Do you really think it really been cooked up by Marxist lefties in order to overthrow capitalism? And that they've been so successful they've managed to hoodwink the entire football establishment and many of the players?

The movement has clearly hit on something real and powerful

What and where do you see the problems? Personally, I'd rather focus on footy related race issues as this is a footy forum. 

If you are white, how is your opinion formed if it is not from media / social media? 

[SKD]

11 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree that the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Why do you think so many people of colour think there is a problem? Are they making it up? Deluded? Why does BLM exist as a movement in the UK if the UK is so perfect?

Do you really think it really been cooked up by Marxist lefties in order to overthrow capitalism? And that they've been so successful they've managed to hoodwink the entire football establishment and many of the players?

The movement has clearly hit on something real and powerful

The trouble is that people are looking for and creating problems that don’t exist. For example, white man gets a job instead of a black man, people will be shouting racist. The word is far to overused and has lost its meaning. of course their are going to be mindless idiots in a population the size of the UK. 
 

Young People are being swayed by the media and the education sector, which is ever increasingly becoming more and more left wing. It’s a bit of a vicious circle. People are told the uk is disgusting racist, so they look for it. I’d say people on the ‘hard’ left are some of the most spiteful, hate spewing, division creating, horrible people you see on social media. Of course that’s going to make people feel like the whole world is against them. 
 

‘Racism’ or better word discrimination is present in every single nation in the world. Racism towards white farmers in South Africa is never talked about, why? The Chinese and their Muslim / African slaves are never talked about.. why? 
 

BLM (or other anti racism groups) should focus on the (majority) black gangs in London killing each other every single day. Rather than the fact Sol (the dickhead) Campbell can’t get a job... because he’s an idiot. 

[Dorchester Saint]

13 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree that the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Why do you think so many people of colour think there is a problem? Are they making it up? Deluded? Why does BLM exist as a movement in the UK if the UK is so perfect?

Do you really think it really been cooked up by Marxist lefties in order to overthrow capitalism? And that they've been so successful they've managed to hoodwink the entire football establishment and many of the players?

The movement has clearly hit on something real and powerful

BLM is an American vehicle that the far left have conveniently climbed aboard for their own ends. You pay too much attention to the noisy far left and the left biased MSM that’s your problem. Most POC just get on with their lives. The BLM movement is anti capitalism which suits the left, it’s also anti nuclear family construct and wants to defund the police, how anyone can support that is beyond me, have you seen the destruction they’ve caused in US towns and cities? they’ve murdered people for being white!! If you think I’m being OTT check it out for yourself. 

I support ‘Kick it out’ but will never lend my support to BLM. 
 

[LuckyNumber7]

17 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

BLM is an American vehicle that the far left have conveniently climbed aboard for their own ends. You pay too much attention to the noisy far left and the left biased MSM that’s your problem. Most POC just get on with their lives. The BLM movement is anti capitalism which suits the left, it’s also anti nuclear family construct and wants to defund the police, how anyone can support that is beyond me, have you seen the destruction they’ve caused in US towns and cities? they’ve murdered people for being white!! If you think I’m being OTT check it out for yourself. 

I support ‘Kick it out’ but will never lend my support to BLM. 
 

This x100.

For all the people claiming the players are supporting the phrase 'black lives matter' rather than the organisation Black Lives Matter, whether they like it or not the two are inextricably linked. That phrase to me is toxic and associated with the far left agenda and the rioting and vandalism across the US and more recently here and does nothing to promote racial harmony.

If football is really serious about taking people with them and eradicating racism as much as possible then they need to ditch all reference to BLM, the taking a knee and Black Power symbol of the raised fist.  Re-focus the Kick it Out campaign and take meaningful action against any proven incidents of racism. I don't think any reasonable person would oppose that.

[Sir Ralph]

The Premier League says that kneeling is not linked to BLM. However, Sky Sports has based kneeling on BLM and says it before every game and the logo is plastered all over the screen during the whole of lockdown. To then say it has nothing to do with BLM is ridiculous. The issue will cause more division and the frustration of the people that were previously supportive of anti-racism campaigns and probably cause some to become less tolerant, which is sad when this country is actually incredibly tolerant.

[Turkish]

42 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

The Premier League says that kneeling is not linked to BLM. However, Sky Sports has based kneeling on BLM and says it before every game and the logo is plastered all over the screen during the whole of lockdown. To then say it has nothing to do with BLM is ridiculous. The issue will cause more division and the frustration of the people that were previously supportive of anti-racism campaigns and probably cause some to become less tolerant, which is sad when this country is actually incredibly tolerant.

The two are obviously linked, anyone who pretend they're not is just trying desperately hard not to appear racist. the laughable posts on the lounge thread during the protests were a sight to behold, claims that there wasn't any trouble and that it was all peaceful despite all the video and photo evidence. People so desperate to appear on the right side of the argument they couldn't bare to admit to what they saw going on. 

[East Kent Saint]

I don't know why The Prem and FA fail to think these things through and do their own anti racism thing relevant to football , by that I mean making an effort to get more divergency in coaching and management roles . That way it would not be politicised but you wonder if the quality of leadership is there in football.

BLM is a loose organization , anyone can set up a chapter and join so there are extreme ideas and elements associated with them . This has been exploited by Trump and his extreme right wing supporters . This has lead to a 17 year old wandering the streets during the protests with a high powered rifle shooting  3 people , at least one died , he has appeared in court and is out on 1M dollar bail , not sure who stumped that up .

I think the knee was relevent to USA as it was during the Stars and Stripes where everyone is supposed to stand with hand on heart , it doesn't really translate so stop it now.

[whelk]

The right knee is BLM. If you raise your fist then that is support of Marxists but only if left hand. If right hand you want to smash the family unit and take away police truncheons. Left knee is kick it out. Halfway through the season it switches

Edited 11 December, 2020 by whelk