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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 07/04/2024 at 08:20, sadoldgit said:

My point is that it is all just story telling and humans character playing. I can’t recall but did we all kick off about this production three years ago? I am sure you are aware that various Shakespearean productions have been staged in more modern dress so your Kappa things falls flat by the way.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/anne-boleyn-jodie-turner-smith-motherhood-193329705.html#:~:text=And that starts with the,Anne%3A Jodie Turner-Smith.
 

Also whilst on the subject, a black actress playing Juliet is causing distress amongst some…

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article287419930.html

 

 

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Out of interest, where do you stand on the cultural appropriation argument?

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 07/04/2024 at 08:20, sadoldgit said:

And talking “logically” Ducky, surely it is down to the production team to present their material artistically in any way they chose?

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“Logically” why would you keep asking a bloke you’ve got on ignore questions? 
 

For all your woke signalling I bet you’d have kicked up a fuss if they’d cast a black man in your life story.


 

 

F86882DE-C9A8-4D6B-95D7-709B4E23F465.jpeg

  • Like 1
whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/04/2024 at 10:36, Lord Duckhunter said:

“Logically” why would you keep asking a bloke you’ve got on ignore questions? 
 

For all your woke signalling I bet you’d have kicked up a fuss if they’d cast a black man in your life story.


 

 

F86882DE-C9A8-4D6B-95D7-709B4E23F465.jpeg

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Imagine he’d be up in arms if Steven Spielberg was director too. Although might be hard to sell as a blockbuster movie

Edited by whelk
pingpong

pingpong

Posted
Posted
  On 10/04/2024 at 12:49, AlexLaw76 said:

image.thumb.png.222a43022fc265da1cde93092cc05ecc.png

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And here is what the report actually says:

"(iv) The Working Group acknowledge there are potential risks for employers, service delivery and workers. **However, the Working Group express their confidence those risks can be managed and mitigated, if a 4-Day Week is properly planned for, and if it is designed and implemented in full consultation with workers and their trade union representatives.**

(v) The Working Group considers the risks to manage and mitigate include:

>Equality risks: The risk of widening existing inequalities between groups of workers i.e. office workers versus those on the frontline, particularly in 24/7 operations. Given the different gender, race and other characteristics of different workforces in the public sector, there is potential for negative and differential impacts on particular protected characteristics. In some circumstances, worker entitlements to welfare benefits may also be put at risk."

So this is just some shitty paper headline. Probably mail or telegraph. 

 

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 10/04/2024 at 15:47, pingpong said:

And here is what the report actually says:

"(iv) The Working Group acknowledge there are potential risks for employers, service delivery and workers. **However, the Working Group express their confidence those risks can be managed and mitigated, if a 4-Day Week is properly planned for, and if it is designed and implemented in full consultation with workers and their trade union representatives.**

(v) The Working Group considers the risks to manage and mitigate include:

>Equality risks: The risk of widening existing inequalities between groups of workers i.e. office workers versus those on the frontline, particularly in 24/7 operations. Given the different gender, race and other characteristics of different workforces in the public sector, there is potential for negative and differential impacts on particular protected characteristics. In some circumstances, worker entitlements to welfare benefits may also be put at risk."

So this is just some shitty paper headline. Probably mail or telegraph. 

 

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Noah Eastwood writes for the Torygraph.

Edited by badgerx16
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

Descendants of one of the characters portrayed in the new Wolf Hall complaining that their ancestor is being played by an Egyptian actor.

Edited by badgerx16
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
  On 16/04/2024 at 12:36, Weston Super Saint said:

Not banning pupils from praying in school, apparently...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366

 

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As the report says, the school is a "free"' school and not under Local Authority control, as such it can make it's own rules and does not allow any religious observance on the premises. The pupil in this case, and her parents, knew this before enrolling, as did the rest of the large proportion of Muslim students attending.

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/04/2024 at 08:57, revolution saint said:

Out of interest, where do you stand on the cultural appropriation argument?

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It’s nonsense. Cultural appropriation has been going on as long as migration. I enjoy eating and making curries, so what? We are all human beings and we all interact and share experiences. 
When I was a kid everyone wanted a Mop Top cut to look like The Beatles and no mention the cultural appropriation from the Merseybeat scene. If you were white and supported a ‘fro because you liked black music why is that any different?

If you are running a drama department in an inner London school, what do you do if you want to put on a production of Henry 1V part 1? Exclude half of your team because they do have not  have the culturally appropriate skin colour?

I just hope that any future actors who want a roll in a Tudor production take their family trees going back to the Middle Ages along to the auditions so that us viewers can rest easy in the knowledge that the cast is culturally authentic. 😉

It was mentioned earlier about Daniel Craig playing Nelson Mandela. His ethnicity was a central part of who and what he was as a character and shaped his life so no, I don’t think a white person should be playing that roll. A few black actors playing supporting roles in a dramatisation of an historical event from the Tudor era isn’t really comparable but if it upsets people, they don’t need to watch it.

Where do you draw the line? You can’t play Shylock if you are not Jewish?

One of the actors made a very valid point. She said it is not about her skin colour but what she could bring to the roll as an actor. I look forward to the day when we stop talking about what divides (some of) us and focus on what we share in common. Basic  humanity.
 

 

 

Edited by sadoldgit
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

Just to make sure I have this correct:

Black 16th century European queens - Not a problem.

White voice actor who you can’t even see on screen affects a regional Indian accent in the Simpsons - Disgusting.

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 16/04/2024 at 13:15, sadoldgit said:

When I was a kid everyone wanted a Mop Top cut to look like The Beatles and no mention the cultural appropriation from the Merseybeat scene.

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They were German hair cuts. Im surprised you didn’t know that given your incredible knowledge of German fashion. 

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 16/04/2024 at 13:15, sadoldgit said:

 I don’t think a white person should be playing that roll. 


 

One of the actors made a very valid point. She said it is not about her skin colour but what she could bring to the roll as an actor. 

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So the bird made a “valid point”, that totally contradicts your point? 

  • Like 1
ChrisPY

ChrisPY

Posted
Posted
  On 16/04/2024 at 13:15, sadoldgit said:

It’s nonsense. Cultural appropriation has been going on as long as migration. I enjoy eating and making curries, so what? We are all human beings and we all interact and share experiences. 
When I was a kid everyone wanted a Mop Top cut to look like The Beatles and no mention the cultural appropriation from the Merseybeat scene. If you were white and supported a ‘fro because you liked black music why is that any different?

If you are running a drama department in an inner London school, what do you do if you want to put on a production of Henry 1V part 1? Exclude half of your team because they do have not  have the culturally appropriate skin colour?

I just hope that any future actors who want a roll in a Tudor production take their family trees going back to the Middle Ages along to the auditions so that us viewers can rest easy in the knowledge that the cast is culturally authentic. 😉

It was mentioned earlier about Daniel Craig playing Nelson Mandela. His ethnicity was a central part of who and what he was as a character and shaped his life so no, I don’t think a white person should be playing that roll. A few black actors playing supporting roles in a dramatisation of an historical event from the Tudor era isn’t really comparable but if it upsets people, they don’t need to watch it.

Where do you draw the line? You can’t play Shylock if you are not Jewish?

One of the actors made a very valid point. She said it is not about her skin colour but what she could bring to the roll as an actor. I look forward to the day when we stop talking about what divides (some of) us and focus on what we share in common. Basic  humanity.
 

 

 

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Seems like you’re very much in favour of it not being acceptable for actors to portray people of a different race in some circumstances and able to draw your own line whilst also arguing that it shouldn’t be an issue at all or we’d end up needing to debate where the line is drawn…

whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
  On 17/04/2024 at 17:06, ChrisPY said:

Seems like you’re very much in favour of it not being acceptable for actors to portray people of a different race in some circumstances and able to draw your own line whilst also arguing that it shouldn’t be an issue at all or we’d end up needing to debate where the line is drawn…

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I bet you like Katie Hopkins and hate Muslims

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 17/04/2024 at 17:06, ChrisPY said:

Seems like you’re very much in favour of it not being acceptable for actors to portray people of a different race in some circumstances and able to draw your own line whilst also arguing that it shouldn’t be an issue at all or we’d end up needing to debate where the line is drawn…

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Hardly my own line is it. It is the production team from Wolf Hall who are responsible for the casting isn’t it?

Look, it is just an opinion but I can see that it wouldn’t work in certain cases for what are clearly obvious reasons. Would it be better if the actors played it in white face? It wasn’t a big deal when Olivier played Othello in blackface was it? Of course it would happen now but haven’t we grown up a bit and can make the distinction where it would be inappropriate and when it isn’t for certain actors with certain skin tones to play certain parts? 

Maybe not, but Jodie Turner-Smith (a black actor) played Anne Boleyn in a miniseries and there were no riots in the streets. She said that the aim wasn’t historical accuracy but the telling of an emotional human story. 

 

Edited by sadoldgit
Added text
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 17/04/2024 at 17:06, ChrisPY said:

Seems like you’re very much in favour of it not being acceptable for actors to portray people of a different race in some circumstances and able to draw your own line whilst also arguing that it shouldn’t be an issue at all or we’d end up needing to debate where the line is drawn…

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If there is one thing we know about @sadoldgit is there is the right view, his view, and the wrong view, which is everyone that doesn't agree with him.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 17/04/2024 at 18:44, sadoldgit said:

Hardly my own line is it. It is the production team from Wolf Hall who are responsible for the casting isn’t it?

Look, it is just an opinion but I can see that it wouldn’t work in certain cases for what are clearly obvious reasons.

 

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What 'certain cases' ? If a black actor can play a Queen of England, why can't a white actor play MLK ? After all, Ben Kingsley played Ghandi. You either have 'colour blind' casting or you don't, it cuts both way.

Edited by badgerx16
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
  On 17/04/2024 at 20:31, badgerx16 said:

What 'certain cases' ? If a black actor can play a Queen of England, why can't a white actor play MLK ? After all, Ben Kingsley played Ghandi.

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Not exactly the best example to use. Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji, born in England to an English mother and ann Indian father. He has also openly admitted that he suntanned himself heavily to more “look the part” for filming Gandhi.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
  On 17/04/2024 at 20:37, The Kraken said:

Not exactly the best example to use. Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji, born in England to an English mother and ann Indian father. He has also openly admitted that he suntanned himself heavily to more “look the part” for filming Gandhi.

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Fair enough.

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 17/04/2024 at 20:31, badgerx16 said:

What 'certain cases' ? If a black actor can play a Queen of England, why can't a white actor play MLK ? After all, Ben Kingsley played Ghandi. You either have 'colour blind' casting or you don't, it cuts both way.

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Ben Kingsley has an Indian father. His birth name is Krishna Pandit Bhanji.

As I said about Nelson Mandela, there are some historical characters whose lives are shaped totally by their ethnicity. I think you would agree that Martin Luther King would be in the same bracket as Nelson Mandela. A white person playing the part of a black activist is ridiculous. A black person playing a white English Queen is just an actor playing a role. There is a big difference isn’t there?

We have had decades of white actors playing the roles of black people and using make up. I am not going to get my knickers in a twist about a few black actors playing white roles and not using make up. 

 

Edited by sadoldgit
Added text
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 18/04/2024 at 07:22, sadoldgit said:

A white person playing the part of a black activist is ridiculous. A black person playing a white English Queen is just an actor playing a role. There is a big difference isn’t there?

 

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If, today, a white actor played a black historical character there would be uproar, but the other way around you are not allowed to even question it ? You either have 'colour blind' casting or you don't.

Edited by badgerx16
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
  On 18/04/2024 at 07:22, sadoldgit said:

Ben Kingsley has an Indian father. His birth name is Krishna Pandit Bhanji.

As I said about Nelson Mandela, there are some historical characters whose lives are shaped totally by their ethnicity. I think you would agree that Martin Luther King would be in the same bracket as Nelson Mandela. A white person playing the part of a black activist is ridiculous. A black person playing a white English Queen is just an actor playing a role. There is a big difference isn’t there?

We have had decades of white actors playing the roles of black people and using make up. I am not going to get my knickers in a twist about a few black actors playing white roles and not using make up. 

 

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So pretty much double standards is what you're suggesting.

White British queen, one of the most famous white queens in history: just an actor playing a role.

Black human rights activist, one of the most famous black rights activist in history: not just an actor playing a role, it would be ridiculous for a white person to do so.

Seems a very blurred and very confused line there of what is and isn't acceptable.  

  • Like 3
Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
  On 18/04/2024 at 07:51, The Kraken said:

So pretty much double standards is what you're suggesting.

White British queen, one of the most famous white queens in history: just an actor playing a role.

Black human rights activist, one of the most famous black rights activist in history: not just an actor playing a role, it would be ridiculous for a white person to do so.

Seems a very blurred and very confused line there of what is and isn't acceptable.  

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I understand colour/religion/sexuality blind casting and also protected roles. But I can't see how you can have both. It's certainly a challenge to argue a case for both.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 18/04/2024 at 07:51, The Kraken said:

So pretty much double standards is what you're suggesting.

White British queen, one of the most famous white queens in history: just an actor playing a role.

Black human rights activist, one of the most famous black rights activist in history: not just an actor playing a role, it would be ridiculous for a white person to do so.

Seems a very blurred and very confused line there of what is and isn't acceptable.  

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An actor playing a role would for example be a black person playing James Bond. Has historically been a white male, but there is no reason on earth why it couldn't be played by a black male. 

What SOG is suggesting is, as usual, complete bollocks and double standards, as he desperately tries to keep up this facade.

  • Like 1
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saint francis

saint francis

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2024 at 17:38, Turkish said:

turns out the police are racist afterall

Three white police officers overlooked for promotion because of race | UK News | Metro News

 

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For me this is a tough one.  Like most I agree with promotion based on merit and that alone.  Diversity policies in organisations should be concerned with trying to eliminate prejudices and biases in recruitment and making sure that the place is is fair and as accessible as possible for anyone and everyone.  It isn't about simply appearing to have a cross section of gender, colour, disability, etc for no good reason other than to say you have. 

Policing is the one organisation which is different though in my opinion.  The people doing society's policing and arresting, should look to broadly represent the society it polices.  If this means quotas, so be it - for me it's the only area in which I think quotas are appropriate in recruitment. 

AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2024 at 19:40, saint francis said:

For me this is a tough one.  Like most I agree with promotion based on merit and that alone.  Diversity policies in organisations should be concerned with trying to eliminate prejudices and biases in recruitment and making sure that the place is is fair and as accessible as possible for anyone and everyone.  It isn't about simply appearing to have a cross section of gender, colour, disability, etc for no good reason other than to say you have. 

Policing is the one organisation which is different though in my opinion.  The people doing society's policing and arresting, should look to broadly represent the society it polices.  If this means quotas, so be it - for me it's the only area in which I think quotas are appropriate in recruitment. 

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What a hideous PoV

  • Like 1
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2024 at 19:40, saint francis said:

For me this is a tough one.  Like most I agree with promotion based on merit and that alone.  Diversity policies in organisations should be concerned with trying to eliminate prejudices and biases in recruitment and making sure that the place is is fair and as accessible as possible for anyone and everyone.  It isn't about simply appearing to have a cross section of gender, colour, disability, etc for no good reason other than to say you have. 

Policing is the one organisation which is different though in my opinion.  The people doing society's policing and arresting, should look to broadly represent the society it polices.  If this means quotas, so be it - for me it's the only area in which I think quotas are appropriate in recruitment. 

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Surely the Police is one area where we need to ensure that the people in the job are those best suited to the tasks in hand, rather than a statistical balancing act ?

  • Like 2
Picard

Picard

Posted
Posted
  On 14/08/2024 at 07:16, badgerx16 said:

Surely the Police is one area where we need to ensure that the people in the job are those best suited to the tasks in hand, rather than a statistical balancing act ?

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Which jobs do you suggest don't need people best suited to the tasks in hand?

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