Post Brexit work permit arrangements

[saint1977]

PL seem fairly content but could be tricky for FL Champ clubs? Could Saints have signed Diallo under these new rules? Don’t think it’s a bad thing that stopping signings u18s from overseas which the FA seemingly pushed for - Chelsea and Man U and especially Liverpool especially weren’t so keen I expect - stops the racking, stacking and endless, with limits also on u21 signing numbers in each transfer window.

Putting aside people’s views on Brexit itself, what do people think of the new rules from an SFC perspective? Looks more difficult for smaller budget PL and Champ clubs but if academies are productive it could bring prices down for domestic players apart for the really outstanding prospects everyone wants.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/01/work-permits-for-eu-players-and-no-under-18-signings-in-post-brexit-regulations

[Nordic Saint]

2 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

PL seem fairly content but could be tricky for FL Champ clubs? Could Saints have signed Diallo under these new rules? Don’t think it’s a bad thing that stopping signings u18s from overseas which the FA seemingly pushed for - Chelsea and Man U and especially Liverpool especially weren’t so keen I expect - stops the racking, stacking and endless, with limits also on u21 signing numbers in each transfer window.

Putting aside people’s views on Brexit itself, what do people think of the new rules from an SFC perspective? Looks more difficult for smaller budget PL and Champ clubs but if academies are productive it could bring prices down for domestic players apart for the really outstanding prospects everyone wants.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/01/work-permits-for-eu-players-and-no-under-18-signings-in-post-brexit-regulations

It is going to be difficult for smaller clubs who signed young European players who were not established internationals, as they will no longer qualify for work permits. We wouldn't have been able to sign players like Schneiderlin or Fonte, for example.

[Saint Garrett]

25 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

It is going to be difficult for smaller clubs who signed young European players who were not established internationals, as they will no longer qualify for work permits. We wouldn't have been able to sign players like Schneiderlin or Fonte, for example.

Even given he was already in England?

[Nordic Saint]

9 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Even given he was already in England?

No, because Crystal Place wouldn't have been able to sign him either.  Of course, he went on to win 43 caps for Portugal but at the time Palace and Saints signed him, he didn't have one so under the new rules, he wouldn't have qualified for a work permit. 

Edited 2 December, 2020 by Nordic Saint

[SuperSAINT]

Not being able to sign European under 18’s is a bit of a game-changer for the premier league.

[VectisSaint]

7 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

It is going to be difficult for smaller clubs who signed young European players who were not established internationals, as they will no longer qualify for work permits. We wouldn't have been able to sign players like Schneiderlin or Fonte, for example.

It won't affect players already here, it won't be applied retrospectively. Not clear if it would be applied to players moving between clubs in the UK, as this is when you traditionally need a new work permit.

[HarvSFC]

We've branched out to bring in a few foreign players into the academy set-up too, Valery, Jankewitz, Rus and Rodriguez being the most notable.

Our transfer model seems to be moving away from the domestic leagues also, where a standard Championship player costs £15m+ now. We will need quite a rethink with these rules, I reckon.

Ings and JWP will be more valuable than they already are, however.

[egg]

7 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Not being able to sign European under 18’s is a bit of a game-changer for the premier league.

Yep, that's what stood out for me. That will hit us. Jankewitz, Obafemi, Valery and many others wouldn't have been able to sign under those rules. 

[VectisSaint]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, that's what stood out for me. That will hit us. Jankewitz, Obafemi, Valery and many others wouldn't have been able to sign under those rules. 

Obafemi is Irish (well he was born there), Ireland is in the Common Travel Area, Irish Citizens have different rights to those outside of the CTA.

[stevy777_x]

When Martin semmens spoke about it on the TSP podcast, i was left with the impression it would allow clubs to go in new markets outside of europe (Africa, South America) as the rules for Europe would align themselves with the rest of the world. 

Well it doesn’t appear like that. On the contrary it is must more restrictive and just means big clubs will poach our talents even more.

brexit basically means restricting the available pool of talent Available to us and promoting the british ones whether they are good or not.

 

this will impact long term the Competitiveness of the PL that is for sure.

 

[egg]

9 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Obafemi is Irish (well he was born there), Ireland is in the Common Travel Area, Irish Citizens have different rights to those outside of the CTA.

Cheers, what with all the fuss over the Irish border, I hadn't appreciated it's going to be business as usual for Irish players. Irish footballers yes, Irish beef no. French footballers non, French beef non. Makes no sense! 

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Cheers, what with all the fuss over the Irish border, I hadn't appreciated it's going to be business as usual for Irish players. Irish footballers yes, Irish beef no. French footballers non, French beef non. Makes no sense! 

Nothing makes sense, rules in football should me the same accross the Europe so that everyone is on an even footing.

Restricting the pool of players Available will just hinder our competitivety. I don t effing care if it Helps produce more homegrown players. If the talent isn’t there then it is pointless. 
 

 

[Wurzel]

Presumably works both ways and the likes of Jadon Sancho won't be going abroad any more to get game time, but admittedly the numbers coming to the PL far outweigh those going the other way

[kwsaint]

5 hours ago, egg said:

Cheers, what with all the fuss over the Irish border, I hadn't appreciated it's going to be business as usual for Irish players. Irish footballers yes, Irish beef no. French footballers non, French beef non. Makes no sense! 

It dates back to 1922.  Part of the settlement that established the Irish Free State allowed for freedom of movement between UK and Ireland.  Given the historical connections between the two countries it made sense to do this - and it's a necessary part of the Good Friday agreement.  This arrangement predates the UK joining the EEC as it was, and will continue after we leave the EU.

[SuperSAINT]

13 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

When Martin semmens spoke about it on the TSP podcast, i was left with the impression it would allow clubs to go in new markets outside of europe (Africa, South America) as the rules for Europe would align themselves with the rest of the world. 

Well it doesn’t appear like that. On the contrary it is must more restrictive and just means big clubs will poach our talents even more.

brexit basically means restricting the available pool of talent Available to us and promoting the british ones whether they are good or not.

 

this will impact long term the Competitiveness of the PL that is for sure.

 

I wonder if clubs can have “partnerships” with European clubs to basically house them until they are over 18?

[Saint Mikey]

Don't think this will affect us in any meaningful way. If you think about the recruitment of young players from Europe in the past 10-15 years, then only Morgan and Valery stand out as players to make the 1st team. Valery (IMO) is not PL standard and unlikely to play much for the first team much again - could we have found a young British/Irish player that could have done as well? I appreciate we have Jankewitz and he may turn out to be decent, but he hasn't made a 1st team appearance yet. 

In the past we've done well purchasing younger capable players who've made 1st team debuts elsewhere: Stephens, Best & Blackstock. Whilst also buying players (or paying compo) who were much younger like Lallana and Walcott. So we could go back to this approach when there are gaps in our academy or because we find a good player playing for someone else. 

I think teams like Chelsea and their loan army, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Utd will all be affected. Maybe Wolves with the model they have now. But how much is it likely to affect our recruitment, given how many younger players we've purchased from Europe and brought through to the 1st team? 

[revolution saint]

7 hours ago, Wurzel said:

Presumably works both ways and the likes of Jadon Sancho won't be going abroad any more to get game time, but admittedly the numbers coming to the PL far outweigh those going the other way

Depends what the German rules are on immigration (outside the EU) but whatever they are, they aren't affected one bit by what we choose to impose here.  I guess the argument would be that Sancho and others won't have to go abroad because the tighter rules would free up space for them at British clubs.  I'm not that bothered about European competitions but I would imagine long term this will make the premier league less competitive in those competitions but in theory should benefit the National Teams.  One thing I've never really liked are the rules that take into account the level of the country they play for or their club.  Basically means if you manage to scout someone of talent outside of the Fifa top 50 countries or in one of the more obscure leagues then you'll have trouble getting a work permit.  That's not really the players fault though and potentially penalises good scouting networks.

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Saint Mikey said:

Don't think this will affect us in any meaningful way. If you think about the recruitment of young players from Europe in the past 10-15 years, then only Morgan and Valery stand out as players to make the 1st team. Valery (IMO) is not PL standard and unlikely to play much for the first team much again - could we have found a young British/Irish player that could have done as well? I appreciate we have Jankewitz and he may turn out to be decent, but he hasn't made a 1st team appearance yet. 

In the past we've done well purchasing younger capable players who've made 1st team debuts elsewhere: Stephens, Best & Blackstock. Whilst also buying players (or paying compo) who were much younger like Lallana and Walcott. So we could go back to this approach when there are gaps in our academy or because we find a good player playing for someone else. 

I think teams like Chelsea and their loan army, Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Utd will all be affected. Maybe Wolves with the model they have now. But how much is it likely to affect our recruitment, given how many younger players we've purchased from Europe and brought through to the 1st team? 

With the future system, Bednarek, Djenepo and Salisu would have been a no go.

[redkeith]

13 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

With the future system, Bednarek, Djenepo and Salisu would have been a no go.

I seem to recall Ralph saying once that Saints aren't ab;e to sign M'Bappie  but should be signing the next M'Bappe instead/ These rules will make that impossible.