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washsaint
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13 hours ago, Verbal said:

Nope.  Read Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow.  Standard qualitative and quantitive methods are examples of 'fast thinking', and are prone to errors and unconscious biases.  'Slow thinking' takes too much time to explain, ironically, but it's worth reading (he won a Nobel for these ideas). 

Bringing this back to Walcott, there's no intrinsic reason to give less weight to Turkish's analysis than to the 'statistical' approach.  Quantitive doesn't trump qualitative. 

Quantitative... 

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23 hours ago, Verbal said:

Nope.  Read Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow.  Standard qualitative and quantitive methods are examples of 'fast thinking', and are prone to errors and unconscious biases.  'Slow thinking' takes too much time to explain, ironically, but it's worth reading (he won a Nobel for these ideas). 

Bringing this back to Walcott, there's no intrinsic reason to give less weight to Turkish's analysis than to the 'statistical' approach.  Quantitive doesn't trump qualitative. 

Maybe one day I will read it but in the real world of useful science, for example developing a Covid Vaccine, the efficacy is going to measured by numbers, not feelings and opinions. 

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19 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Maybe one day I will read it but in the real world of useful science, for example developing a Covid Vaccine, the efficacy is going to measured by numbers, not feelings and opinions. 

Good grief.  Never mind.  

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23 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Except quantitative does have greater weight. 

Rubbish!

You ask users of a product questions about that product, from the comfort of their own home, you get first hand views which you can easily draw a trend from with very few people.  In fact, the more people you ask, the more diminishing the returns.

You check the data of your product, how many weeks of data do you need before you are told you have reached "significance"? Many.  The two go hand in hand, but quant is VERY powerful as it gives you the insight and early hypotheses you need to form that product. 

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25 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Rubbish!

You ask users of a product questions about that product, from the comfort of their own home, you get first hand views which you can easily draw a trend from with very few people.  In fact, the more people you ask, the more diminishing the returns.

You check the data of your product, how many weeks of data do you need before you are told you have reached "significance"? Many.  The two go hand in hand, but quant is VERY powerful as it gives you the insight and early hypotheses you need to form that product. 

Exactly, theres no opportunity for qualitative until quantative has done the big boy stuff. 

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22 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

 Why did he ever leave saints in the first place.

If you were a teenager at a struggling Championship club and Arsenal offered you a wage increase and quick route to Premier League football would you turn it down?

Edited by Matthew Le God
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35 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

 Why didi he ever leave saints in the first place. More money I suppose. i bet he could not believe his luck to get a loan move with us, let alone to come straight into the team

 Ever mind that, let’s get back to the intellectual debate that is going straight over my qualitative quantitative little head!

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2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

 Why didi he ever leave saints in the first place. More money I suppose. i bet he could not believe his luck to get a loan move with us, let alone to come straight into the team

And we even had a song for him!

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3 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

 Why didi he ever leave saints in the first place. More money I suppose. i bet he could not believe his luck to get a loan move with us, let alone to come straight into the team

If you were offered the choice of being coached by Arsene Wenger or George Burley which would you choose?

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4 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

doing well so far.

He was also brilliant in his interview. It was actually worth listening to because he has a brain in his head and says some interesting things. A cracking advocate for the club and I predict he will have a role here for a good few years yet. 

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1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

He was also brilliant in his interview. It was actually worth listening to because he has a brain in his head and says some interesting things. A cracking advocate for the club and I predict he will have a role here for a good few years yet. 

Agreed fully!

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8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

He was also brilliant in his interview. It was actually worth listening to because he has a brain in his head and says some interesting things. A cracking advocate for the club and I predict he will have a role here for a good few years yet. 

Spot on.

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1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

p.s he needs to ditch them tights.

he does, yeah.

I thought he had come dressed for baseball. If he had brought a bat out of his tights, that would have confirmed it.

Mid term appraisal - strengths : speed running, passing, enthusiasm, interview techniques; weaknesses - finishing, dress sense, the man bun

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3 hours ago, skintsaint said:

p.s he needs to ditch them tights.

His tights / long johns do look weird but better than pulling a hamstring, which I presume that is why he is wearing them. Or maybe he just likes to wear tights even in public!!

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On 22/11/2020 at 21:15, VectisSaint said:

If you were offered the choice of being coached by Arsene Wenger or George Burley which would you choose?

Wasnt it Redknapp rather than Burley who was Saints manager when he was sold?

Burley v Wenger is clearly no contest but I can't believe that Theo turned down the 'triffic coaching of 'arry and Kevin Bond for Wenger.

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17 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

He was also brilliant in his interview. It was actually worth listening to because he has a brain in his head and says some interesting things. A cracking advocate for the club and I predict he will have a role here for a good few years yet. 

I’d personally be wary of keeping players for reasons like that. We’ve already given Long a token contract because he tries hard and is a nice lad in the dressing room. For me, the jury is still out. A decent enough start but I’d want to see a bit more from him to warrant giving a 32 year old what would be a pretty beefy contract.

 

I’ve always said he left too early and I stick by that. He’d only made his debut a few months before we sold him and instead of playing competitive first team football, he ended up stuck in their reserves for the next 6 months.

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8 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

he does, yeah.

I thought he had come dressed for baseball. If he had brought a bat out of his tights, that would have confirmed it.

Mid term appraisal - strengths : speed running, passing, enthusiasm, interview techniques; weaknesses - finishing, dress sense, the man bun

Might be seen as indecent exposure.

Agree with your appraisal. 

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On 24/11/2020 at 18:34, East Kent Saint said:

I thought Walcott was sold as Saints were desperate for cash and accepted a poor deal . The spin was his Dad was desperate to get him a move to Arsenal !! Saints have got all season to see if he's worth a contract. Perhaps Ings could coach his finishing ??

Weren't there price caps at the time when selling academy players? I do remember that he delayed signing for Arsenal until he was little older which meant we could receive a bit more for his transfer. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just resurrecting this one to see what people's opinions are now he's had a few games. For me he's a useful addition to the squad, but isn't exactly the Messiah.

I'm certainly not seeing him as a great signing at the moment - just an ok one at a time when we don't seem to have money to spend.

Thoughts?

 

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I think he's been a good signing so far in the context of what Ralph would have been looking for from him. I think we wanted someone to give us more options in wide positions and up front and that's exactly what he's done. Nice that for once we signed someone ready to come into first team immediately and the amount of time he's spent on the pitch so far suggests Ralph has been happy with him.

I would be surprised if we end up signing him permanently though, would think we would look for someone younger on lower wages in the summer.

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29 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Just resurrecting this one to see what people's opinions are now he's had a few games. For me he's a useful addition to the squad, but isn't exactly the Messiah.

I'm certainly not seeing him as a great signing at the moment - just an ok one at a time when we don't seem to have money to spend.

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts, pretty much in line with yours. I think he’ll end up on the bench, potentially a good sub, probably  more effective than long has been recently 

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16 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Thoughts, pretty much in line with yours. I think he’ll end up on the bench, potentially a good sub, probably  more effective than long has been recently 

 

46 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Just resurrecting this one to see what people's opinions are now he's had a few games. For me he's a useful addition to the squad, but isn't exactly the Messiah.

I'm certainly not seeing him as a great signing at the moment - just an ok one at a time when we don't seem to have money to spend.

Thoughts?

 

I felt since he has been deployed up front he been less impressive (well damn average) but in the no10 roles in our side his direct running is dangerous. I’d like to see him there again and see how he progresses.

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Just now, hypochondriac said:

His signing means we now have options off the bench that can change the game. Whether he starts or is beefing up the bench, he's a decent signing and I hope we make it permenent. Miles better than long for a start. 

Yep. He offers options / competition up front and on the wings. Whoever starts ahead of him knows they've got to perform to keep the shirt. We've not had that for a while. He's been a good signing. 

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I expect he's also on a reasonable wage we can afford. If we'd instead opted for an inconsistent youngster or a risky player that would no one had heard of then the chances of success imo would be small. He has played the part he was brought into play perfectly and what a player to have in the dressing room. I bet he's also contributed to our good start behind the scenes as well as he's clearly an intelligent book which is good as we need clever players for the football we play. Jwp, romeu, Walcott and I think Bertrand clearly have a fair amount between the ears which undoubtedly makes a difference. Not sure about the others but I'm sure that plays a part in our success. 

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On 16/11/2020 at 23:52, Verbal said:

Nope.  Read Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow.  Standard qualitative and quantitive methods are examples of 'fast thinking', and are prone to errors and unconscious biases.  'Slow thinking' takes too much time to explain, ironically, but it's worth reading (he won a Nobel for these ideas). 

Bringing this back to Walcott, there's no intrinsic reason to give less weight to Turkish's analysis than to the 'statistical' approach.  Quantitive doesn't trump qualitative. 

I've not finished reading this book yet (it deserves reading properly), but I have read The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis (who wrote Moneyball), which is about a lot of the work that Kahneman and Tversky did on how useless gut feeling is, and how easy it is to manipulate (which they show using cold, hard statistics). Well worth a read. Though it may leaving you feel that we're doomed as a species, as we are so easily manipulated (see Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, etc...)

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3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I expect he's also on a reasonable wage we can afford. If we'd instead opted for an inconsistent youngster or a risky player that would no one had heard of then the chances of success imo would be small. He has played the part he was brought into play perfectly and what a player to have in the dressing room. I bet he's also contributed to our good start behind the scenes as well as he's clearly an intelligent book which is good as we need clever players for the football we play. Jwp, romeu, Walcott and I think Bertrand clearly have a fair amount between the ears which undoubtedly makes a difference. Not sure about the others but I'm sure that plays a part in our success. 

Free transfer, good squad player, wants to be here. Why wouldn’t we make it permanent?

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  • 2 weeks later...
24 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Will we sign him permanently in January or wait until thr summer? He's free!!

Sign him in January means you have to pay all his wages.

In the summer he will be a free agent and then you offer him a take or leave 2 year contract.

That’s the best he will get anywhere.

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27 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Think he’s been really good myself he’s at least playing better then the other number tens..

drops into holes and finds space well and causes problems when in these pockets.

a lot better then Redmond or djenepo for me.has strengthened the first team so is a good signing 

Agreed.  He was excellent against City.

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On 12/11/2020 at 07:48, skintsaint said:

WP decisively won the ball back and Walcott just picked up the loose ball, then sent a shocker knee high cross in. I'm not as easily pleased as modern fans it seems. Still annoyed he missed that simple chance to make it 2 nil into the corner. For his hefty wage he hasn't delivered for me and just carrying on his Everton form. Still time to change my mind though - 10 goals and 5 assists will do it by season end ;)

Still having more of an impact than Redmond or Djeneppo, and about equal to Armstrong. I was not a believer, but he is swaying me.

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1 hour ago, MarkSFC said:

Will we sign him permanently in January or wait until thr summer? He's free!!

No need to sign him in January. He wants to be here, and if we want him, it will be down to the money. Besides, he might crock himself between now and then.

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45 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

He has been ok for me and tbh better than i was expecting, still not worth his wages for me so far. To say he has been brilliant is laughable.

Looking at the overall picture.  
 

Free

Half his salary being paid by competitor

Outperforming the other number 10s

I think he’s been a better than brilliant acquisition. Some would say inspired! 


 

 

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