5 Sub Rule

[skintsaint]

So I read on the BBC that the top clubs want to bring this in due to injuries to their top players, which is effecting their start to the season.

Would be interested to hear others opinion on this? I believe it should stay 3 subs, the top teams need to learn to manage their squads better imo.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54745978

[egg]

Just now, skintsaint said:

So I read on the BBC that the top clubs want to bring this in due to injuries to their top players, which is effecting their start to the season.

Would be interested to hear others opinion on this? I believe it should stay 3 subs, the top teams need to learn to manage their squads better imo.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54745978

I don't see their argument. They're not playing more games and have the same sized squads. I'm with you - manage the squads better and stop moaning. 

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

So I read on the BBC that the top clubs want to bring this in due to injuries to their top players, which is effecting their start to the season.

Would be interested to hear others opinion on this? I believe it should stay 3 subs, the top teams need to learn to manage their squads better imo.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54745978

I support the big clubs. Even though they’ve got the best players, best squads and most income they are the only clubs affected by injuries so we should change the rules to whatever helps them the most. 

[benjii]

Down to the bare bones innit!

[Manuel]

Honestly, a few results go against them and they want to change the rules.  Some people need to learn how to lose gracefully.  

[Toadhall Saint]

5 subs is of benefit to the big guns who have £m’s sat on the bench.

Edited 31 October, 2020 by Toadhall Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

5 subs is of benefit to the big guns who have £m’s sat on the bench.

That’s why they’re in favour of it of course.

[Baird of the land]

Should stay 3 subs. The big clubs have mega money and should be able to rotate. Just heard Chelsea have used something like 23 players this season in Prem.

[HarvSFC]

I can see where they are coming from, if Klopp had been able to make five subs and used one to bring off Van Dijk before 11 minutes against Everton, then Pickford wouldn't have been able to clatter him and he'd have avoided that injury. Alongside this, Aguero, Mendy and Matip are usually playing 38 league games a season. These players never miss matches in normal circumstances and it is really quite surprising to see them suffer muscular injuries and now having to spend time on the treatment table. If only they could have two more substitutions. 

We of course have also suffered two known injuries this season in Djenepo and Salisu and that's really quite the increase from last season.

[The Kraken]

7 hours ago, Turkish said:

I support the big clubs. Even though they’ve got the best players, best squads and most income they are the only clubs affected by injuries so we should change the rules to whatever helps them the most. 

This. We should be thankful that we are allowed to just play in the same league as these behemoths of the modern game, and we should support their wishes accordingly. 

[BARCELONASAINT]

The so called big clubs can go **** themselves!

[whelk]

Go back to one sub

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

I can see where they are coming from, if Klopp had been able to make five subs and used one to bring off Van Dijk before 11 minutes against Everton, then Pickford wouldn't have been able to clatter him and he'd have avoided that injury. Alongside this, Aguero, Mendy and Matip are usually playing 38 league games a season. These players never miss matches in normal circumstances and it is really quite surprising to see them suffer muscular injuries and now having to spend time on the treatment table. If only they could have two more substitutions. 

We of course have also suffered two known injuries this season in Djenepo and Salisu and that's really quite the increase from last season.

There are a lot of injuries in training and international meetings. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

This. We should be thankful that we are allowed to just play in the same league as these behemoths of the modern game, and we should support their wishes accordingly. 

Great post as always Krakers. Personally I think the 5 sub rule apply to the top 6 and the rest should stay at 3. That was I get to see 16 amazing players and take photos of them when they are near me during games, not just 14. It’s an honour to see these players and it will also help our fantasy team scores 

[Doctoroncall]

The evidence suggests this doesn't favour the bigger clubs, clubs with uneven squads are more likely to suffer.

[skintsaint]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54866411

Agree with Dean Smith on this, I think last season Liverpool hardly rotated their first XI most of the season, now a couple of injuries they are moaning again - its football and injuries happen! Utd subs that were brought on last game included Pogba & Cavani, neither who started mid week either. 

[Saint Keef]

I expect when they form their European Super League they'll be able to bring on 11 subs, have 15 players on the pitch at one time if their club name begins with the letter L  and have 2 goalkeepers in goal at one time as well. Shut up Klopp and get on with it.

I wonder what what would happen if we lost a couple of our best players to injury including our top scorer.......I haven't heard Ralph moaning.    

[SaintBobby]

5 is ridiculous.

3 should be the max. I’d also like some sort of rule that you can’t make tactical subs after the 90 minute mark, but not sure how that could be made fair and workable.

[HarvSFC]

Man City made just one substitution in yesterday’s game, while Liverpool made the two, one being forced by the injury to TAA. Calling for five substitutions because three isn’t enough when not even using all three to manage their squads appropriately. 

[saintwbu]

Man City’s squad is worth about a billion pounds, if they wanted to protect their players they could play a completely different 11 in each game and they’d still probably win most of their games. 5 subs would hugely favour those clubs. Assuming everyone was fit, if City used 5 subs yesterday who weren’t in their starting line up, they could’ve brought on Aguero, Mahrez, Bernardo Silva, Foden, Fernandinho. Keep 3. 

[Baird of the land]

Should stay 3. If Liverpool are concerned for the likes of TAA, well they should have rotated. Ifthey’d had 5 subs it’s not like klopp would have subbed him against man city at ht.

[egg]

Keep it at 3. Neither Klopp nor Pep used the 3 x subs which makes a mockery of their call for 5. They also have good squads. Neco Williams or Milner could have played RB ahead of TAA. Klopp could have rested one of his usual front 3 and played Jota, but instead he played all 4 of them. 

Managers need to manage their resources better. 

[bangkoksaint]

‘On the edge’, ‘complete killer’ and ‘disaster’................just a few of the terms used by Klopp and Guardiola. These two need to take a long hard look at themselves and what’s happening in the world.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

3 is fine.  I would allow at least one more in extra time, maybe even two to prevent the fatigue based slog it often turns in to.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, bangkoksaint said:

‘On the edge’, ‘complete killer’ and ‘disaster’................just a few of the terms used by Klopp and Guardiola. These two need to take a long hard look at themselves and what’s happening in the world.

Yeah the only consistent thing about the rants this weekend is that they've come from Liverpool, Man City and Man Utd.

They are protecting their own interests. They were about to shaft the country with 'Project big picture' just for their interests, so i hope the rest of the league come together and block them.

They have the squads to rotate, so what are they moaning about? Increasing 5 subs just favours the big sides. Gives the big managers more opportunity to use their already bloated squads. Don't let it happen.

[Saint86]

It has to remain as 3. Teams with less funding didn't build squads over the summer planning to have an additional 2 quality substitutes to field. Its pure movement of the goalposts from the top clubs. Yet another attempt to unlevel the premier league playing field.

[John Boy Saint]

Unless I've been deaf and blind, the subject of 5 subs hadn't been anywhere near the agenda until the lid was lifted on that particular box during project restart. 

Looking back to our 1-0 win over City in the summer, we didn't make a change until past the 90 I would guess that was down to Ralph not wanting to alter the dynamic of the team repelling the onslaught, bizarrely with the option for 5 subs City only made 2 changes.

[Saint Troy]

6 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

Unless I've been deaf and blind, the subject of 5 subs hadn't been anywhere near the agenda until the lid was lifted on that particular box during project restart. 

Looking back to our 1-0 win over City in the summer, we didn't make a change until past the 90 I would guess that was down to Ralph not wanting to alter the dynamic of the team repelling the onslaught, bizarrely with the option for 5 subs City only made 2 changes.

I think the scheduling of matches has changed a bit though since then. We have european matches and then this for TV spread of matches rather than a block on sat. It means teams are more likely to play earlier in the day/weekend.

Dont get me wrong, couldnt be more against the 5 sub whining nonsense - especially those that wanted to push their own agenda fully recently but it I do think that game timing could be looked at a little when teams are playing midweek.

[The Cat]

Hold on everyone. Now we're one of the top 6 isn't it time we reassess our views on this? We might need 5 subs next season when we have midweek Champions League games added in. 

[Toussaint]

I see their point, I favour a system where all the big clubs (franchises) should have 3 teams, offense, defense and special teams, plus subs. So a match day squad of about 40. Bring back the drinks break and break each half to get instructions out, then we could have 4 quarters, with mini breaks between, they could be called time outs? If the franchises owners get bored, restless, sick of their fans or have a fit of pique they could simply move to a new location / country. The players could also where head to toe protection, after all staying safe is all that matters now. 

Can't believe no one else thought of that?

[MarkSFC]

I actually think 5 would benefit the smaller squads / clubs just as much. Sure the overall wuality of say Man City's 20 versus ours is going to be higher, however if we could have 9 on the bench this means our kids coming through will at least get experience of the matchday before they otherwise might. And, if we just happen to be 4 up with 10 minutes to play there will be opportunities for players to get some experience quicker than they might otherwise. With the pressure of securing 40 odd points asap the smaller clubs will squeeze as much out of their first / main 11-14 players as they can. Every 5-10minutes "saved" earlieron in the season will help towards the end. Benefits everyone but in different ways.  

[Yozzman]

Alan Shearer had good idea on MOTD2 last night. If both teams in a match want 5 subs let them  otherwise leave it at 3.

[notnowcato]

All they want is a level playing field...  bless.

[nta786]

Big 6 clubs can go do one 

3 subs all the way for me. 

Man City/Pool complaining yet they only used 1 sub and 2 subs last night respectively?!?!?!

Them clubs just want to use 5 subs against the small clubs whilst keeping best 11 on the pitch when it comes to their games against other top 6 clubs

For me the only thing I’d accept and I think that would work quite well would be to allow 4 subs-

3 as normal now and then the 4th sub has to be an U21. 

[davefizzy14]

It should remain 3 subs. The big clubs don't like it cos they've had a few injuries just like every other team in the league does. There was a vote on it and the vast majority of clubs (including us) voted against the 5 sub rule.

[de-Griz]

Make it 3 outfield subs plus 1 goalkeeper sub. Its terrible to have used all three subs and then get a goalkeeper injured off by a bad tackle.

[Toadhall Saint]

Should go back to 1 sub.

Edited 9 November, 2020 by Toadhall Saint

[HarvSFC]

It sure is strange how the Football League clubs, who are also playing Saturday-Tuesday/Wednesday-Saturday most weeks are not crying for five substitutes. It’s almost as if the rule would massively benefit the big clubs and the big clubs manager’s who are crying for it!

[Dark Munster]

On 09/11/2020 at 11:17, de-Griz said:

Make it 3 outfield subs plus 1 goalkeeper sub. Its terrible to have used all three subs and then get a goalkeeper injured off by a bad tackle.

I've been saying this for years. I would suggest the goalie sub can only be used in the event of injury, not as a tactical move to time waste in added time. 

Edited 11 November, 2020 by Dark Munster

[skintsaint]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54890748

[John Boy Saint]

36 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54890748

"The Premier League is the only major competition in Europe to return to three subs."

Well if you are going to present yourself as the best and hardest league in the world - you have to have a bit of a daring edge to sell. ☺️

My tongue was rammed hard into my cheek as I typed that.

[Charlie Wayman]

It seems to me that bringing on subs often is far more disruptive than helpful, when rhythm and cohesion and automatism invariably collapses. An exception seems to be if a sub is made early on when the new player has a chance to settle and get up to speed and it is obvious that the player being subbed is having a mare that is affecting the team's whole performance.

Who in their right mind would want to sub five players?

[trousers]

 

 

[trousers]

On 11/11/2020 at 13:24, Charlie Wayman said:

Who in their right mind would want to sub five players?

Ralph...?

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/19805500.hasenhuttl-absolutely-positive-reintroducing-five-subs/

Quote

BOSS Ralph Hasenhuttl has reiterated his desire to see the Premier League re-introduce five subs – stating that he was ‘absolutely positive’ that additional substitutions would solve the ‘intense problem’ the league has.

Almost as traditional as carol singers and mince pies at this time of year, criticism of the festive schedule has grown in fervour in recent weeks, with Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp and his captain Jordan Henderson very outspoken on the issue.

When asked if he was in favour of the five-sub rule, a proposal that was shot down by his fellow Premier League managers in September 2020, he stated: “You know my opinion.

“When other leagues are thinking of five subs, and they have by far not this intense problem like we have, then you don’t have to ask me this question.

“I was absolutely positive for the five subs, and this is my opinion.”

 

Edited 14 March, 2022 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

The big clubs will be laughing, this will give them lots of opportunities to put their mega bucks players on the pitch.

Our stance may be a bit different now that we have a bigger squad, but I still think it generally favors the big clubs. All of a sudden those 'Top 6' games become a degree harder.

[VectisSaint]

It's OK as long as it doesn't mean 5 substitution periods per team per game. Time wasting/game management is bad enough already, imagine the game being stopped 10 times in the 2nd half to make subs, it would be a nonsense. 

[nta786]

34 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The big clubs will be laughing, this will give them lots of opportunities to put their mega bucks players on the pitch.

Our stance may be a bit different now that we have a bigger squad, but I still think it generally favors the big clubs. All of a sudden those 'Top 6' games become a degree harder.

Notice how the likes of Pep don't even use 3 subs in their games against big clubs/big games.

This will 100% favour them more, and it's the main reason they want it. Or if the likes of Pool/City are winning by 4 or 5, they'll sub off the likes of Robertson and Trent to keep em fresh for their usual midweek European fixtures.

Even with our slightly bigger squad, I don't think we would have won yesterday with 5 subs or 7 subs to be honest.

[waylander]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

It's OK as long as it doesn't mean 5 substitution periods per team per game. Time wasting/game management is bad enough already, imagine the game being stopped 10 times in the 2nd half to make subs, it would be a nonsense. 

I would expect that they will allow maybe 3 substitution events per team where you can sub one player or more up to a total of substitutions.

[Turkish]

I think they should also make the matches 4 quarters rather than two halves. The poor players more of a rest as matches are much more intense. Plus they should also be able to sub on and off players if they are specialists. For example have a dead ball specialist on the bench which they can bring on when the team has a corner or free kick, throw in specialist for throw ins. the would ensure soccerball remains the most entertaining game on the planet.

Edited 14 March, 2022 by Turkish

[OttawaSaint]

48 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I think they should also make the matches 4 quarters rather than two halves. The poor players more of a rest as matches are much more intense. Plus they should also be able to sub on and off players if they are specialists. For example have a dead ball specialist on the bench which they can bring on when the team has a corner or free kick, throw in specialist for throw ins. the would ensure soccerball remains the most entertaining game on the planet.

Great idea, perhaps have a separate offense and defense would help too. Also, helmets to eliminate head injuries and some sort of padding perhaps for protecting the upper body, cant be too careful about that. They could stop the clock in between plays to help organize the players and have a pop concert at half time so that everyone is happy!