State of finances

[stevy777_x]

Toby Steele on the pod was mentionning we were losing 3 million per month at the moment with no crowds in stadiums.

If the situation continues beyond next season, he indicated we would be in serious financial difficulty.

I suppose the situation is the same for other clubs, should there be a sort of gesture from players to reduce their salaries?

Would be entirely logical as the business sector in which they work in is no longer in the same finantial health.

Either that or wages will have to be readapted for future transfers or contract negociations.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Toby Steele on the pod was mentionning we were losing 3 million per month at the moment with no crowds in stadiums.

If the situation continues beyond next season, he indicated we would be in serious financial difficulty.

I suppose the situation is the same for other clubs, should there be a sort of gesture from players to reduce their salaries?

Would be entirely logical as the business sector in which they work in is no longer in the same finantial health.

Either that or wages will have to be readapted for future transfers or contract negociations.

 

A couple of home games a month, say. About £30 each from 30,000 would be a couple of million a month. There’s also VAT to hand over on ticket sales. Where does the rest come from?

Edited 28 October, 2020 by Whitey Grandad

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A couple of home games a month, say. About £30 each from 30,000 would be a couple of million a month. There’s also VAT to hand over on ticket sales. Where does the rest come from?

Match day sponsorship / advertising?

Hospitality?

Merchandise sales?

Food, beer etc sales?

Etc

[Depressed of Shirley]

Less TV money due to no fans in stadiums and until September broadcasting all the games. Less TV money from abroad as the Chinese TV deal was ended. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Match day sponsorship / advertising?

Hospitality?

Merchandise sales?

Food, beer etc sales?

Etc

Yes, could be. Without seeing the figures we can’t be sure. A very rough estimate would put these at one third of the profit. That’s profit mind, not income.

[Saint86]

 

8 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

Toby Steele on the pod was mentionning we were losing 3 million per month at the moment with no crowds in stadiums.

If the situation continues beyond next season, he indicated we would be in serious financial difficulty.

I suppose the situation is the same for other clubs, should there be a sort of gesture from players to reduce their salaries?

Would be entirely logical as the business sector in which they work in is no longer in the same finantial health.

Either that or wages will have to be readapted for future transfers or contract negociations.

 

I don't know who Toby Steele is, but this seems highly speculative take, and to describe it as a loss is disingenuous as well. We have lost a portion of our income this season because there are no gate receipts and that can be estimated for sure. But equally, the club knew that was coming and may well have restructured the business to accommodate it - Removing significant sums from the wage bill over the transfer window being a significant example.

To put it another way. outright calling it a loss implies the club sanctioned our summer transfer window spend on the assumption we'd have full capacity for each and every home game.

Flip side, we are on TV significantly more this year, and we are on course to finish higher as well. Plus of course, we will have received additional transfer bonuses for Liverpool's title win.

 

Edited 28 October, 2020 by Saint86

[igsey]

5 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

I don't know who Toby Steele is, but this seems highly speculative, and to describe it as a loss is disingenuous as well. We have lost a portion of our income this season because there are no gate receipts and that can be estimated for sure. But equally, the club knew that was coming and may well have restructured the business to accommodate it - Removing significant sums from the wage bill over the transfer window being a significant example.

 

He's the Managing Director of Southampton FC, I think we can probably take what he says at face value rather than "highly speculative".

[Turkish]

Maybe we need to set up a diversity committee to tap into the large LGBT, polish, black and Asian community. If we can attract 25% of our fans from those communities then that can help to offset the loss with the additional non match revenue attracting these fans would bring 

[VectisSaint]

Need to be clear what he actually said. Reading the OP's remarks could mean we are losing 3million from our income, not that we are making a financial loss of 3m per month. You might also note that he apparently said if this goes on beyond the end of NEXT season we will be in big financial trouble. To be honest if this goes on beyond the summer of 2022 the state of a football club's finances will be the least of our worries. 

[Saint86]

 

3 hours ago, igsey said:

He's the Managing Director of Southampton FC, I think we can probably take what he says at face value rather than "highly speculative".

 

An unbudgeted £3m loss per month makes no sense and would be very alarming. I also doubt it is something we would leak during takeover talks. Hence querying it rather than taking it as a "face value" gospel truth.

If saints are actually making an unbudgeted loss of £3M per month specifically due to something that was foreseeable this season (and obviously would have been budgeted for) then something has gone very wrong. Given our summer transfer activity, i find that outcome to be highly unlikely - hence calling it a speculative take on what was said and querying it.

As Vectis says, what the OP is saying is unclear. What Toby Steele might be have said is that our income streams are down £3M per month, or that we are losing £3m per month but it has been budgeted... not necessarily that we are making an unbudgeted loss of £3m per month. Which would be something very different indeed.

For my part, I'd like to think that we didn't go and spend millions on transfers, agents, and wage commitments this summer having budgeted for a full St Mary's every home game. Instead, I'd like to think the club budgeted for an empty St Mary's this year, and our spend and wage commitments factors in no gate receipts for the season.

Edited 28 October, 2020 by Saint86

[egg]

22 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

 

An unbudgeted £3m loss per month makes no sense and would be very alarming. I also doubt it is something we would leak during takeover talks. Hence querying it rather than taking it as a "face value" gospel truth.

If saints are actually making an unbudgeted loss of £3M per month specifically due to something that was foreseeable this season (and obviously would have been budgeted for) then something has gone very wrong. Given our summer transfer activity, i find that outcome to be highly unlikely - hence calling it a speculative take on what was said and querying it.

As Vectis says, what the OP is saying is unclear. What Toby Steele might be have said is that our income streams are down £3M per month, or that we are losing £3m per month but it has been budgeted... not necessarily that we are making an unbudgeted loss of £3m per month. Which would be something very different indeed.

For my part, I'd like to think that we didn't go and spend millions on transfers, agents, and wage commitments this summer having budgeted for a full St Mary's every home game. Instead, I'd like to think the club budgeted for an empty St Mary's this year, and our spend and wage commitments factors in no gate receipts for the season.

However you cut it, a £3m per month loss/deficit/income reduction for a club of our size is unsustainable and cannot be budgeted for given that we were losing money pre pandemic. 

[Whitey Grandad]

30 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

 

An unbudgeted £3m loss per month makes no sense and would be very alarming. I also doubt it is something we would leak during takeover talks. Hence querying it rather than taking it as a "face value" gospel truth.

If saints are actually making an unbudgeted loss of £3M per month specifically due to something that was foreseeable this season (and obviously would have been budgeted for) then something has gone very wrong. Given our summer transfer activity, i find that outcome to be highly unlikely - hence calling it a speculative take on what was said and querying it.

As Vectis says, what the OP is saying is unclear. What Toby Steele might be have said is that our income streams are down £3M per month, or that we are losing £3m per month but it has been budgeted... not necessarily that we are making an unbudgeted loss of £3m per month. Which would be something very different indeed.

For my part, I'd like to think that we didn't go and spend millions on transfers, agents, and wage commitments this summer having budgeted for a full St Mary's every home game. Instead, I'd like to think the club budgeted for an empty St Mary's this year, and our spend and wage commitments factors in no gate receipts for the season.

I would have thought it was a drop in income rather that a drop in profit.

[djharvey]

49 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I would have thought it was a drop in income rather that a drop in profit.

Correct!

The club would also have cut their cloth accordingly to offset the reduced income as much as possible/desired. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, djharvey said:

Correct!

The club would also have cut their cloth accordingly to offset the reduced income as much as possible/desired. 

How do you cut the equivalent of £36m off your outgoings when players are your biggest expense and on contracts that you're stuck with paying? 

[djharvey]

58 minutes ago, egg said:

How do you cut the equivalent of £36m off your outgoings when players are your biggest expense and on contracts that you're stuck with paying? 

Did you actually read/digest what i wrote?

[igsey]

2 hours ago, egg said:

How do you cut the equivalent of £36m off your outgoings when players are your biggest expense and on contracts that you're stuck with paying? 

You should listen to the interview if you haven't already, it was actually very interesting and much less question-dodging than you might expect.

Basically Toby said that they are ring-fencing the funds for first team play, the budget cuts shouldn't affect our ability to pay/buy players (though confirmed again that Gao doesn't put any money in), but he said that things like stadium upgrades, overseas projects etc. are having to be held back. If the reduced income lasts past this season then we will have issues but I don't think anybody is expecting that.

[egg]

10 hours ago, djharvey said:

 

 

 

10 hours ago, djharvey said:

Did you actually read/digest what i wrote?

Yes. 

Edited 29 October, 2020 by egg

[egg]

8 hours ago, igsey said:

You should listen to the interview if you haven't already, it was actually very interesting and much less question-dodging than you might expect.

Basically Toby said that they are ring-fencing the funds for first team play, the budget cuts shouldn't affect our ability to pay/buy players (though confirmed again that Gao doesn't put any money in), but he said that things like stadium upgrades, overseas projects etc. are having to be held back. If the reduced income lasts past this season then we will have issues but I don't think anybody is expecting that.

Thank you. I haven't heard it but I'll take a listen. Sounds like some pretty intensive fire fighting. 

[Wurzel]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Thank you. I haven't heard it but I'll take a listen. Sounds like some pretty intensive fire fighting. 

No it doesn't. It just sounds like sensible temporary postponement of non-essential projects until they can be more sure of their budget.

[Saint_clark]

14 hours ago, egg said:

How do you cut the equivalent of £36m off your outgoings when players are your biggest expense and on contracts that you're stuck with paying? 

Could be saving a fair bit on wages given who we've released and loaned out. 

[Saint86]

18 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

No it doesn't. It just sounds like sensible temporary postponement of non-essential projects until they can be more sure of their budget.

Exactly this imo. The club have budgeted for it for the season. So we aren't suddenly making an unexpected £3m a month loss with no way to afford it.

[stevy777_x]

44 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Exactly this imo. The club have budgeted for it for the season. So we aren't suddenly making an unexpected £3m a month loss with no way to afford it.

We ve budgeted it through the use of loan which will have to be paid back in the coming years...

It will have to be recovered one way or another in the coming years, by less spending or even sale of a star player for example...)

[spyinthesky]

8 hours ago, egg said:

Thank you. I haven't heard it but I'll take a listen. Sounds like some pretty intensive fire fighting. 

So no chance of increasing stadium capacity then???????

[djharvey]

8 hours ago, egg said:

 

 

Yes. 

Speaks volumes!

[egg]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

So no chance of increasing stadium capacity then???????

Eh? 

[egg]

39 minutes ago, djharvey said:

Speaks volumes!

You were referring to a drop in income not profit. Semantics, but we weren't making any profit pre Covid so it's obvious on any assessment that a reduction in income will only increase our debts. That said, someone has helpfully paraphrased what was said. People can put whatever positive spin they want on the situation, but a shortfall of c£36m a year will hurt us badly. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, egg said:

You were referring to a drop in income not profit. Semantics, but we weren't making any profit pre Covid so it's obvious on any assessment that a reduction in income will only increase our debts. That said, someone has helpfully paraphrased what was said. People can put whatever positive spin they want on the situation, but a shortfall of c£36m a year will hurt us badly. 

Presumably it’s only a deficit of £3m a month during the playing season so possibly ‘only’ £27m a year.

[egg]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Presumably it’s only a deficit of £3m a month during the playing season so possibly ‘only’ £27m a year.

Possibly. Still a lot of money in the context of our turnover. Not easy to accommodate. 

[Divergent]

Is the club so desperate for money they are now offering LD sponsored shirts at a still high price with the chance of winning a prize? 
Just received an email saying “buy the shirt we never ‘lost’ in”. 

[djharvey]

4 hours ago, egg said:

You were referring to a drop in income not profit. Semantics, but we weren't making any profit pre Covid so it's obvious on any assessment that a reduction in income will only increase our debts. That said, someone has helpfully paraphrased what was said. People can put whatever positive spin they want on the situation, but a shortfall of c£36m a year will hurt us badly. 

Yes Semantics!