Dan N'Lundulu - Official: Loaned to Lincoln

[egg]

27 minutes ago, Saint Mikey said:

To be honest I don’t recall anyone saying Sims was going to become the next Le Tiss. He looked like he had a bit of potential and hasn’t managed to realise it. Clearly has some injury issues, as should have a club at Lge 1 level,  but personally I didn’t think he’d make it in the Prem.

More widely, many players show a lot of promise but for varying reasons just don’t kick on. We have countless examples over the years. The Guardian are running their Next Gen series at the moment and it’s interesting to see that many players seen as the best players in the world at 16/17/18 still don’t go on to make it at the top level and some drop out of the game all together. Players picked as the best prospects at Prem clubs also vary on whether they push on, less than 50% usually do.

All this highlights that it is extremely difficult to become a pro footballer. Even more difficult to become an elite player at Premier League level. The guys playing in this league are amongst the best in the world, the top 0.1%.

The club thought that Sims was going to be massive. Les Reed was a huge fan but he seemed to struggle to win over managers. That run and ball against Liverpool shows the lads talent, and with encouragement and regular games, you have to wander where his career could have gone. I hope he gets a club. 

The one that shocks me is Hesketh. From PL to Eastleigh's subs bench. 

My take on this fwiw is that we keep hold of lads that won't make it in the PL longer than is good for them or us. Consequently, they don't get a chance develop at the level they'll eventually play at, and when they get there other players have far more experience. N'lundulu getting a move to Lincoln at 22 is a case in point. He's at his level (at best), what good has it been doing him getting 5 mins at the end of a PL game and the odd u23 game? Crazy. He should have been getting 75-100 league games at lower level over the last 3 years and learned his trade. 

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

Why is it that so many of the really promising academy lads end up going no where? Year ago people were saying Josh Sims was the next LeTiss. Now he cannot get a club. Now Dan L. So many full of promise. Do we coach it out of them?

Not necessarily. It's more that people sometimes massively overrate our players.

I don't think anyone was rating N'Lundulu that highly in the first place though?

[The Cat]

1 minute ago, egg said:

The club thought that Sims was going to be massive. Les Reed was a huge fan but he seemed to struggle to win over managers. That run and ball against Liverpool shows the lads talent, and with encouragement and regular games, you have to wander where his career could have gone. I hope he gets a club. 

The one that shocks me is Hesketh. From PL to Eastleigh's subs bench. 

My take on this fwiw is that we keep hold of lads that won't make it in the PL longer than is good for them or us. Consequently, they don't get a chance develop at the level they'll eventually play at, and when they get there other players have far more experience. N'lundulu getting a move to Lincoln at 22 is a case in point. He's at his level (at best), what good has it been doing him getting 5 mins at the end of a PL game and the odd u23 game? Crazy. He should have been getting 75-100 league games at lower level over the last 3 years and learned his trade. 

With players like Sims and Hesketh you have to wonder if the problem is a mental one. Both had some talent and at least in Sims' case he did sporadically prove it at the top level.

They also spent time out on loan. I thought Hesketh was getting good reviews at Burton when he was there and Doncaster loved Sims. It's a bit of a mystery where their careers have ended up.

[SuperSAINT]

2 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

Year ago people were saying Josh Sims was the next LeTiss.

Was he anti-vax as well or something?  

[egg]

8 minutes ago, The Cat said:

With players like Sims and Hesketh you have to wonder if the problem is a mental one. Both had some talent and at least in Sims' case he did sporadically prove it at the top level.

They also spent time out on loan. I thought Hesketh was getting good reviews at Burton when he was there and Doncaster loved Sims. It's a bit of a mystery where their careers have ended up.

I think the mental part can come from the expectation of where there career is going, and the comedown when reality bites. Take N'lundulu. He's 22, no lower league loans, been getting PL mins, gets a 3 year contract. In his head he's a PL player, but on the pitch he's a league 1 or 2 player. Where must his head be at when he rocks up at Lincoln aged 22, sees lads his age who've played loads of football, and he struggles to make the team at first?

I know from the mouth of the horse that Les Reed thought Sims was destined for big things and told him so. Sure, he got loans, but iirc, one or two were last minute and he struggled to get games as he wasn't at clubs for pre season or friendlies. Personally, I think we handled his development and career appallingly, and his head must be all over the place. 

 

[suewhistle]

On 07/10/2021 at 07:54, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Hack journalism basically

True, but..

Quote

I don't think anyone was rating N'Lundulu that highly in the first place though?

Rather sums up the situation.  I think they learn some decent habits at Saints, and Sims, Hesketh and others have been well regarded for their skills when they go out on loan (Dan probably being an exception!) but unless they get into or close to the team early on perhaps loans earlier on would help too. We've had experience of late developers like Lambert, and let go of others who have succeeded (Ben White and others..) so all we can safely say is that it's not an exact science.

On the other hand, anybody who saw Stevie Mills, Bale, Bridge, and now Livramento in their early games could immediately see that they had something.

[SW5 SAINT]

Scores the opener for Lincoln at Wigan……

[SuperSAINT]

 

Edited 6 January, 2022 by SuperSAINT

[Uncle Albert]

Could this be because they are looking to cash in on Long?

[SuperSAINT]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Albert said:

Could this be because they are looking to cash in on Long?

Probably want a move for him that works out better than it has at Lincoln.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Uncle Albert said:

Could this be because they are looking to cash in on Long?

Probably because he isn't starting and that's hurting his development and value. Probably will look for a follow up loan to a lower level. Will unlikely be prem level but with any luck we can get something for him.

[S-Clarke]

I had a look up on the Lincoln forums to see what they feel, they're quite happy he's gone.

They seem to be of the opinion that whilst he has all the attributes of pace/height/strength etc, he's not a very good footballer at all. They seem to think L1 was too high for him. Not great, and given that he's 23 now (I think) you can't even class him as a youngster anymore, so his chances of making it at this level are close to being done I think.

He's not coming back here to play, he's probably going to go back out on loan to non league or L2 at the most.

Edited 6 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[saint1977]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I had a look up on the Lincoln forums to see what they feel, they're quite happy he's gone.

They seem to be of the opinion that whilst he has all the attributes of pace/height/strength etc, he's not a very good footballer at all. They seem to think L1 was too high for him. Not great, and given that he's 23 now (I think) you can't even class him as a youngster anymore, so his chances of making it at this level are close to being done I think.

He's not coming back here to play, he's probably going to go back out on loan to non league or L2 at the most.

This is what concerns me a bit about Crocker, the age groups are doing much better but these sort of contracts have been given out willy nilly in recent years to academy graduates getting well into their 20s - Dan, Hesketh, Johnson, Ramsay, (has been injured but still at L1 bottom club). Sure there’s plenty of names I’ve missed there as well. Dan will be 25/26 when the contract finishes and I’ve see nothing to suggest an EFL career let alone PL. Add all of those up over the years and it’s a lot of money. Sims I can excuse because he had some limited impact at PL level previously. 

[Hatch]

My Lincoln supporting mate is very happy about this news and sending this 'lumbering giraffe' ( his words)  back.

[eurosaint]

38 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

They definitely need to improve their gauging of potential. I accept Hesketh showed promise, not many could have predicted how low he'd sink down the leagues. But those others showed very little. Nlundulu I thought would do well at league 1/2 level but hasn't shown it yet. 

Contrast with letting Ben White go. I mean it's their job to recognise if someone can become a £50m centre back surely. Maybe decisions like that are why we keep offering long contracts to youngsters? Just in case? Any improvement and they might become a Chambers, Targett or Reed type and bring in decent money despite not quite offering enough quality. 

I think we're early in the new process though. Hopefully the B team will be a solid mixture of promising youth from our academy and more signings like Small and Simeu. 

Tbf, it's not an exact science and the chances are that we'll get as many wrong as right..

Happens at every level of the football pyramid and probably less than 5% of prospects ever make the top grade !

[The Kraken]

He made 21 appearances at Lincoln in all competitions, started 10 and came on as sub in the rest. He scored 1 goal. Sounds like he could be the next Shane Long.

[nta786]

This is what I am also hoping Ankersen can come in and rectify. 

This applies to all clubs, but part of running a football team is knowing exactly when to sell/release your best players.

Not just us, but you could argue United should have sold Lingard/Pogba/Mata etc when they had the chance instead of warming their bench, or equally perhaps Spurs should have accepted £120m for Kane to reinvest.

I think I'd like to know more about Dan's contract before concluding the 3 year contract was a waste. If it is let's say £2k a week, then that's only a c. £312k outlay for someone we could even sell for £500,000 for instance.

This is why you should never use 1 game as a sample size, because he looked okay against Shrewsbury last season but it just hasn't worked out for him. 

[Hatch]

https://staceywest.net/2022/01/06/southampton-recall-dan-nlundulu-analysis-and-reaction/

 

Southampton Recall Dan N’Lundulu: Analysis and Reaction

 

Many said the capture of Morgan Whittaker was the least surprising news of the week. For me, it’s today’s announcement that Dan N’Lundulu won’t appear for the Imps again.

The powerful forward has been recalled early by Southampton, and few tears will be shed. His Imps tally totalled one, a sublime finish against Wigan, but his decent performances probably amounted to just two. In total, the 22-year-old appeared 21 times for the Imps, scoring once but missing plenty of good chances; his xG rating suggests he should have scored four goals at least.

The feedback on social media has been cutting and almost unanimous in welcoming his return to Southampton, but I think a lot of his issues here have been down to circumstance. For instance, he got injured in pre-season and was therefore a way behind everyone in terms of fitness. He was rushed back to play against Man Utd U21s in the Papa John’s Trophy, only to get injured again and miss more football. That was harsh; he missed a sitter against United which could have got him off to a flyer. Instead, the miss stuck in people’s minds.

When he did start getting a run of games, it wasn’t him gently being eased in, but thrown in at the deep end as the only number nine we had. That was a lot to put on his shoulders; yes he’s 22, but he’s got little senior experience. Fans expected an Ellis Simms style player who was going to boss defenders, but instead, he got knocked around like a rag doll at first. He looked like a youngster out of 23s football who didn’t know what to expect from senior appearances, and in reality, that is what he was.

Those performances against Burton and Wigan made me think we’d finally got him on the right track; he bullied the Burton defence and got a great goal against Wigan. Then, in a flash of an eye, it was gone again. It quickly became apparent, as we tumbled down the table, that he was below our own homegrown striker, Freddie Draper, in the pecking order, and the writing was almost always on the wall after that.

Dan N’Lundulu isn’t a bad footballer, but in my mind, he is the product of a broken football system. He’s 22 and aside from 12 appearances in the Premier League, all relatively short outings as a sub, he has no senor experience. The one game he did excel in, against Shrewsbury for Southampton in the FA Cup, saw him in a Premier League team expected to win their game with ease. When he had good players around him, he looked good. When it was up to him to produce the quality and magic, he was left wanting.

Think about our best loan players in recent years; Brennan Johnson, Davide Somma, Tyler Walker Ashley Grimes etc; where did they come from? Premier League academies with little senior football? No. They came from the division or two above us and had all got a bit of football under their belts. Even Johnson, without much senior experience, was better prepared for life in League One than some of the PL loans we’ve had. Lewis Fiorini hasn’t been bad this season, and probably TJ was the big exception to the rule last year as he looked ready as soon as he’d arrived. Sadly, Dan N’Lundulu just didn’t, not from the first minute he stepped on the pitch.

I don’t think he’s as bad as many make out. He hit a run of bad luck and the expectation he carried simply wasn’t something he could live up to. I feel there’s a bit of the Tyreece John-Jules in him; this big hope from a PL academy that in reality is far less effective than his coaches think. It won’t happen, but Dan really needs to be loaned to League Two, maybe somewhere like Crawley, where the standard of defending is a little lower and he’s perhaps not got such expectation placed upon him.

After the injury to Tom Hopper and the disappointment of deadline day, we needed a player willing to seize the moment and take the next step, but we didn’t get it. I wish Dan the best of luck in the future.

[Give it to Ron]

Gone out again to Cheltenham 

[SuperSAINT]

4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Gone out again to Cheltenham 

 

[HarvSFC]

The man likes red and white stripes.

Edited 6 January, 2022 by HarvSFC

[Dusic]

Our success rate with EFL loans in the last few years is shocking.

Do we continually pick the wrong clubs or are the players not even good enough at L1/L2 level?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Gone out again to Cheltenham 

Weird. He clearly struggled in league 1, unless Cheltenham offer him something different.

[fanimal]

Probably due to personal reasons he’s a young lad wanting some family support as well as his club

[edprice1984]

Cheltenham is my local league team (along with Forest Green). I will keep an eye out and see if I can get down to watch a game if he is playing. 

Always think back to the video where he got given a 'First touch improvement' present for Christmas...never a great sign.

[tippingnoddles]