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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

We seem to have a really really low bar. He wouldn’t even have to spend to be considered remotely decent ... he could have loaned the club money at a small interest rate instead of saddling us with debts with staggering interest rates. He would have made money and it would have been healthier for the club. 

 

Apart from putting Semmens in charge and letting him get on with it what has he actually contributed? 
 

He has no interest in our club at all beyond trying to make a few quid but it rather looks like he might end up coming out even at best.

 

Da Grosa might not be any better but I don’t think there is anything wrong with holding Gao to a reasonable standard just because ‘it could be worse’

He couldn't as he doesn't have any. Or at least cant get it out of China.

The interest rate reflects our risk. We wont be seen as a good risk. Recent history of admin, being outside the premier league, relegation battles, debt and our status as a club means that we could very easily be in the championship before they are due a penny.

 

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NewYorkSaint

NewYorkSaint

Posted
Posted

I've spoken with DaGrosa several times and I've concluded he's actually a really smart investor with a compelling plan for Southampton's future.  The fundamental problem clubs of our size have is how to compete against much deeper pocketed owners.  DaGrosa's plan finds a way to build long-term value for the club via a network of academies, and satellite clubs around the world.  Instead of only buying and selling players, we develop them, and at a scale few other clubs can match. It's ingenious, building on Southampton's academy reputation, and seeking to turn that into a global brand. But it would also require a level of financial discipline to get there.  Covid has forced tough financial times on every club, and it's not unexpected that things have taken a turn for the worse since last summer when the outline of this deal was put into place. Speaking personally, I really hope Gao can find a way to come back to the table and get this done. I think it's probably the best outcome for everyone.   

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UpweySaint

UpweySaint

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He couldn't as he doesn't have any. Or at least cant get it out of China.

The interest rate reflects our risk. We wont be seen as a good risk. Recent history of admin, being outside the premier league, relegation battles, debt and our status as a club means that we could very easily be in the championship before they are due a penny.

 

I understand he can’t but I suppose my point is this essentially makes him a ‘poor’ owner. He can’t access any capital, we may as well have a fan ownership model in that case (though that comes with it’s own problems) imagine the saints web mob having to agree on actual decisions about the club!

if we have nobody who can invest in the club or develop the club in some other way I really question what value they bring?

I’m not naively optimistic and appreciate we’re a business but if we don’t have any hope for anything better than the current state of affairs  it’s bloody depressing! 😕

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, NewYorkSaint said:

I've spoken with DaGrosa several times and I've concluded he's actually a really smart investor with a compelling plan for Southampton's future.  The fundamental problem clubs of our size have is how to compete against much deeper pocketed owners.  DaGrosa's plan finds a way to build long-term value for the club via a network of academies, and satellite clubs around the world.  Instead of only buying and selling players, we develop them, and at a scale few other clubs can match. It's ingenious, building on Southampton's academy reputation, and seeking to turn that into a global brand. But it would also require a level of financial discipline to get there.  Covid has forced tough financial times on every club, and it's not unexpected that things have taken a turn for the worse since last summer when the outline of this deal was put into place. Speaking personally, I really hope Gao can find a way to come back to the table and get this done. I think it's probably the best outcome for everyone.   

But can they adequately fund that idea? 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

But can they adequately fund that idea? 

No and that’s the issue. Talk is cheap, it’s easy to throw out ideas that sound great (I could also do that). 
 

History would suggest he’s an awful owner. 
 

Best case, we stay as we are selling our best players to fund cheap replacements. Worse case, we get relegated and some crook has brought the club with loans against us. 
 

Gao isn’t great, but I’d rather him than this clown. I think the fact it’s been dismissed by Blackmore (who’d get his info from those running day to day things at the club), would suggest we do as well. 
 

FAO: New York Saint - if / when you next speak to DaGrossa, tell him to fu*k off and he’s not welcome. 

Regards 

Any saints fan with half a brain 👍🏻

Edited by SKD
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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Would you be happy with Saints being an anchor club ala RB Leipzig and other clubs feeding us ala RB Salzburg?

The difference between RB and this mob is that RB have the money to use this model. This mob don’t. 
 

From what I can gather, they’d struggle to fund 1 club, let alone a network of clubs. 

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, NewYorkSaint said:

I've spoken with DaGrosa several times and I've concluded he's actually a really smart investor with a compelling plan for Southampton's future.  The fundamental problem clubs of our size have is how to compete against much deeper pocketed owners.  DaGrosa's plan finds a way to build long-term value for the club via a network of academies, and satellite clubs around the world.  Instead of only buying and selling players, we develop them, and at a scale few other clubs can match. It's ingenious, building on Southampton's academy reputation, and seeking to turn that into a global brand. But it would also require a level of financial discipline to get there.  Covid has forced tough financial times on every club, and it's not unexpected that things have taken a turn for the worse since last summer when the outline of this deal was put into place. Speaking personally, I really hope Gao can find a way to come back to the table and get this done. I think it's probably the best outcome for everyone.   

Cheers for the update Mr DaGrosa ;)

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saint lard

saint lard

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, NewYorkSaint said:

I've spoken with DaGrosa several times and I've concluded he's actually a really smart investor with a compelling plan for Southampton's future.  The fundamental problem clubs of our size have is how to compete against much deeper pocketed owners.  DaGrosa's plan finds a way to build long-term value for the club via a network of academies, and satellite clubs around the world.  Instead of only buying and selling players, we develop them, and at a scale few other clubs can match. It's ingenious, building on Southampton's academy reputation, and seeking to turn that into a global brand. But it would also require a level of financial discipline to get there.  Covid has forced tough financial times on every club, and it's not unexpected that things have taken a turn for the worse since last summer when the outline of this deal was put into place. Speaking personally, I really hope Gao can find a way to come back to the table and get this done. I think it's probably the best outcome for everyone.   

Hello Mr Dagrosa...id rather stick with Gao. 
Ive seen enough tyrekickers sniffing around SFC in the past. 

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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, SKD said:

I think the fact it’s been dismissed by Blackmore (who’d get his info from those running day to day things at the club), would suggest we do as well. 

"Southampton chief executive Martin Semmens took part in panel discussion about investing in clubs during last week’s virtual Soccerex gathering"

Soccerex is about "bringing together the global football industry" - the statement provided earlier from The Athletic suggests the club are at least thinking along these lines.

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SaintLondon

SaintLondon

Posted
Posted

This is the paragraph that concerns me..

“For example, to make one of the big Italian clubs work, you’d have to qualify for one of the European competitions every year, which is pretty hard. Of course, like everyone else, we would like to qualify for the Champions League or Europa League but we view that as icing on the cake.”

I'm not expecting an owner to come in and spend billions but it would seem that this guy would come in and treat us as we're being treated now but with a load of loans against the club thus making us in a much more precarious position. I'm no GAO fan and I would like to see the club under new ownership but not at any cost. We always bang on about ambition and a lack there of, well I think perhaps DaGrosa would be the icing on the cake of 'PL survival ambitions year on year.' 

Caveat - that's my opinion so probably a load of balls. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

This is the paragraph that concerns me..

“For example, to make one of the big Italian clubs work, you’d have to qualify for one of the European competitions every year, which is pretty hard. Of course, like everyone else, we would like to qualify for the Champions League or Europa League but we view that as icing on the cake.”

What about that paragraph concerns you?

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SaintLondon

SaintLondon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

What about that paragraph concerns you?

just that effectively there wouldn't be investment to make this happen. Like I said, I'm not necessarily saying that I expect an owner to do that but DaGrosa's ownership on paper would see us be in the same position that we're in now but with more loans against the club, so if things were to go pear shaped we could be in a much worse position long term. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

just that effectively there wouldn't be investment to make this happen. Like I said, I'm not necessarily saying that I expect an owner to do that but DaGrosa's ownership on paper would see us be in the same position that we're in now but with more loans against the club, so if things were to go pear shaped we could be in a much worse position long term. 

The paragraph is talking about it being difficult for regular European campaigns. That is just being realistic given the incomes of the clubs we'd be competing with. So how is that a concern?

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DistantSaint

DistantSaint

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

This is the paragraph that concerns me..

“For example, to make one of the big Italian clubs work, you’d have to qualify for one of the European competitions every year, which is pretty hard. Of course, like everyone else, we would like to qualify for the Champions League or Europa League but we view that as icing on the cake.”

I'm not expecting an owner to come in and spend billions but it would seem that this guy would come in and treat us as we're being treated now but with a load of loans against the club thus making us in a much more precarious position. I'm no GAO fan and I would like to see the club under new ownership but not at any cost. We always bang on about ambition and a lack there of, well I think perhaps DaGrosa would be the icing on the cake of 'PL survival ambitions year on year.' 

Caveat - that's my opinion so probably a load of balls. 

That was the sentence that stood out to me as well. I think most agree that the best way to improve is investment and that statement does not shout out to me that he would be pushing for us to break through that glass ceiling.

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SaintLondon

SaintLondon

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The paragraph is talking about it being difficult for regular European campaigns. That is just being realistic given the incomes of the clubs we'd be competing with. So how is that a concern?

For the reasons I have mentioned previously. His consortium would look to purchase the club and keep us on the same model that we have now, with other clubs investing around us all of the time there is a scenario where things end up going pear shaped and we find ourselves in trouble due to the way we were purchased with loans against the club. The part I find concerning I suppose is that ordinarily with new owners they talk about their ambitions of X, Y and Z whereas here it states that Europa would be the icing on the cake. As mentioned if the model for the club isn't going to drastically change (the anchoring business I'll believe when there are other clubs in the portfolio) then I think we're safer with Gao at the helm. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NewYorkSaint said:

I've spoken with DaGrosa several times and I've concluded he's actually a really smart investor with a compelling plan for Southampton's future.  The fundamental problem clubs of our size have is how to compete against much deeper pocketed owners.  DaGrosa's plan finds a way to build long-term value for the club via a network of academies, and satellite clubs around the world.  Instead of only buying and selling players, we develop them, and at a scale few other clubs can match. It's ingenious, building on Southampton's academy reputation, and seeking to turn that into a global brand. But it would also require a level of financial discipline to get there.  Covid has forced tough financial times on every club, and it's not unexpected that things have taken a turn for the worse since last summer when the outline of this deal was put into place. Speaking personally, I really hope Gao can find a way to come back to the table and get this done. I think it's probably the best outcome for everyone.   

hi Joseph, so as to assess your suitability for ownership of this fantastic football club and it is a fantastic football club, please can you provide an answer as to how you would answer the following hypothetical scenario to assess how popular you'd be with fans

You sign a high rated young player for a not insignificant fee. The player on arrival has several fitness and personal issues which mean he is unable to feature in the first team for several months do you

A/ Let him develop at his own speed out of the media glare and keep his issues confidential.

B/ Publically announce the player is one of huge potential but not yet ready for the first team

C/ Release a newspaper article detailing exactly what the problem is and telling the player to buck his ideas up

D/ Give the fans weekly updates via every source possible its what they deserve as the fans have a right to know personal issues of someone they've never met,

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Degrossa ran a top flight French team.

Do we know why Degrossa (sic) is seemingly reluctant to talk about his time at Bordeaux? One would have thought he'd be keen to talk about one of his many past successes in top-flight football ownership...?

Quote

The New York native, who made his reputation in business by setting up a company that bought 248 Burger King restaurants out of bankruptcy, led the £60 million takeover of Bordeaux in December 2018 via his Miami-based sports investment firm GACP Sports.

But 12 months later, GACP sold its stake in the Ligue 1 club to investment partner Kings Street Capital after the two groups fell out over mounting losses and future strategy, with several sources suggesting to The Athletic that DaGrosa simply failed to fully understand the French market.

When asked about Bordeaux, Da Grosa would not be drawn

 

Edited by trousers
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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

hi Joseph, so as to assess your suitability for ownership of this fantastic football club and it is a fantastic football club, please can you provide an answer as to how you would answer the following hypothetical scenario to assess how popular you'd be with fans

You sign a high rated young player for a not insignificant fee. The player on arrival has several fitness and personal issues which mean he is unable to feature in the first team for several months do you

A/ Let him develop at his own speed out of the media glare and keep his issues confidential.

B/ Publically announce the player is one of huge potential but not yet ready for the first team

C/ Release a newspaper article detailing exactly what the problem is and telling the player to buck his ideas up

D/ Give the fans weekly updates via every source possible its what they deserve as the fans have a right to know personal issues of someone they've never met,

It's been suggested in the past that Americans don't really get the British sense of humour

https://time.com/3720218/difference-between-american-british-humour/

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redkeith

redkeith

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

That does not hold up. Fialka was a fantasist. Degrossa ran a top flight French team.

.... Ran it into the ground .  I live 2 hours away from Bordeaux . He turned them from Europa regulars into  lower mid table, selling players each window and replacing them with Freebies,.  They have a brilliant 42,000 stadium which was half empty at best before Covid.   The potential was there with the new ground to be Champions League qualifiers,  but it was wasted. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, alehouseboys said:

It's been suggested in the past that Americans don't really get the British sense of humour

https://time.com/3720218/difference-between-american-british-humour/

 

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I must be an American because I find nothing to laugh at in Mrs Brown’s Boys.

The writer and most of the cast of Mrs Brown's Boys are not British. 

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CanadaSaint

CanadaSaint

Posted
Posted

I’d like to set aside DaGrosa’s character because few, if any of us, know enough about him to assess that fairly.

I’d like to talk about the model.

There are three ways to succeed in the PL – buy most of your talent, develop most of it, or take a hybrid approach by being really good at developing talent, and then using this as the income stream to fund player acquisitions we couldn’t normally afford.

Option 1 (buying talent) is largely off the table for a club of our size, and it’s futile to keep hoping for an owner who’s going to throw sheik-like money at a club like us.

We did very well with Option 3 (develop and sell) for a number of years, but then things went pear-shaped. The academy started to dry up, and we wasted a lot of the income from talent sales on garbage players – compounding this by giving them insanely long contracts.

So, the key to our future rests in a) being better at developing talent, and b) being better at replacing the players we sell.

Our academy, alone, is not the key. Most other clubs have replicated what we did under Nicola Cortese, so we’re all out there fighting for the same kids.

I really like the DaGrosa model for two reasons. It has the capability to greatly broaden our player development base by expanding our academy geographically, and it increases the likelihood that we can replace departing talent with good, young players from within the network of satellite academies – not risky, high-priced acquisitions.

Effectively, we become – within the network – what Liverpool and Spurs have been to us.

I’m not so quick to blow off DaGrosa because I think the model is not just the key to a better future, but probably THE ONLY route to a better future in a PL in which all the odds are stacked against clubs like us.

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted

Mid-tier clubs don't typically generate a lot of excess revenue, so I'm curious about the time horizons for a private equity investment in football. I'd imagine they're hoping they can build a cheap global network of clubs and then flip it as a ready made set-up to a passing billionaire or Red Bull-type investment vehicle in 3-5 years. If that bigger fool fails to come along, I wonder what approach the investors will take?

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Yep Al Bundy and a young Christina Applegate 

Think the favourite one of those was when they thought Al was dying and the kids spent the episode trying to convince him the others one never really loved him 

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Noodles34

Noodles34

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Turkish said:

The average modern saints fan seems to want endless signings, pay players massive wages, never sell anyone unless they decide they are useless (usually after 2 games), weekly updates from the directors of the club as to strategy, signings, ambitions and any personal issues players may be having,  cheap ticket prices, free beer, their own personal toilet, michelin star food in the kiosks and shirts designed for elite sportsman to look good on a bloke with a 35+ BMI worn over a hoodie. So yes, an impossible task.

You forgot free car parking 😂

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Think the favourite one of those was when they thought Al was dying and the kids spent the episode trying to convince him the others one never really loved him 

The first one I saw was a terrified Al's first visit to the dentist. Got me hooked.

Anyway, back to the Saints takeover saga......

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