Sport Republic

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Swapping one season of Ings for at least 2-3 seasons of Armstrong, at least 2 seasons of Livramento, and 1 season of Broja was one of the better deals we've done.

If we're able to get Broja longer term with this takeover, that'd be an excellent start.

I had zero issue with us selling Ings when he refused to sing a new deal and said at he time that it was a no brainer decision. A self sustaining club MUST not let talent leave for nothing. Financial suicide.

[tajjuk]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

is there any `self sustaining' club (in the Prem) that doesn't need to sell a player to balance the books?

Unless the wage bill goes down somehow, we'll need to sell to buy going forward. 

Hopefully though we more align with what Leicester have done over the years. Sell one big player a year and use the money to invest in 3-4 good young players to add to the squad. I mean end of the day players if they improve with us and become good are still going to want to move anyway.

We just want to avoid like the period around 14-15-16 losing so many good players at the same period. 

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Manuel said:

Early days I know but I feel a lot more positive about this takeover than I did the day Gao took over.  

can you explain why you feel that way? I mean, it's an incredibly low bar - but even so, what do you think will change for the good?

[pimpin4rizeal]

Cynical but I get the feeling senmens idea of finding the right buyer, was to find one who lets senmens stay in control..: must say the deal doesn’t sound that exciting to me..

[Chez]

1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

Hopefully though we more align with what Leicester have done over the years. Sell one big player a year and use the money to invest in 3-4 good young players to add to the squad. I mean end of the day players if they improve with us and become good are still going to want to move anyway.

We just want to avoid like the period around 14-15-16 losing so many good players at the same period. 

14-16 that was just a perfect storm. So many top players all wanted, but without CL to keep them. 

However, I guess the real problem is when you don't have any that are sellable. 

[CanadaSaint]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

Agreed. I'd like to see the debt paid off, as it is going to increase to over £100m before we MUST start paying it back, and that £8m+ interest accrued could be better spent on wages etc. 

This is the critical question for me, because that loan is a major FFP constraint for us - a dollar spent on interest is a dollar that can't be spent on players and club improvement.

I'm happy it has finally happened, but I'd be even happier - and more optimistic - if that loan is gone from our books.

https://www.sportsadda.com/football/features/financial-fair-play-uefa-football-explained

"What is counted under the Financial Fair Play regulations?
To comply with the Financial Fair Play regulations, the Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) stated that only a club's outgoings in the area of transfers, employee benefits (including wages), amortisation of transfers, financial costs and dividends will be included."

[Toadhall Saint]

They have some football history does it for me chez

[Katalinic]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

can you explain why you feel that way? I mean, it's an incredibly low bar - but even so, what do you think will change for the good?

For a start it sounds like they have a strategy. Nobody ever really knew why Gao had taken us over and what his plan was. As with anything whether the strategy is a success, time will tell.

[Chez]

Just now, pimpin4rizeal said:

Cynical but I get the feeling senmens idea of finding the right buyer, was to find one who lets senmens stay in control..: must say the deal doesn’t sound that exciting to me..

have to say, what does a previous owner care who the next owner is? They just want the maximum amount of return.  Feels strange when they talk about finding the right buyer. Funding the biggest offer more likely.

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

can you explain why you feel that way? I mean, it's an incredibly low bar - but even so, what do you think will change for the good?

I feel the same for three reasons:

1) I like that it seems from various sources that we turned down multiple offers until we found the right one for the club

2) I like that it has football experts involved like the fella from Brentford

3) I like the multiclub redbull model. For me a model like that will tend to has its crown jewel in the biggest league and there isn't a bigger league than the prem, so I suspect we will be able to pick up bargains from sister clubs which feels very positive.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

They have some football history does it for me chez

can't do any harm.

Hope they can see ways of making the money go further. In the end, that's what its all about. Buying the right players within the available budget. Doing that hasn't got any easier though.

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

If you're not a fan of backing decisions or thoughts with data then prepare yourself to be pissed off - suspect that could impact a few on here.  I'm not certain if he was the first to publicly back a manager using xG (expected goals) but he was doing that 4 years ago whilst at FC Midtjylland

Oh joy... you mean we've got another 4 years of Lord D's superiority complex to endure...?

#legend

Edited 4 January, 2022 by trousers

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Katalinic said:

For a start it sounds like they have a strategy. Nobody ever really knew why Gao had taken us over and what his plan was. As with anything whether the strategy is a success, time will tell.

is the strategy one that gives the fans what they want or gives the shareholders what they want? Maybe thats the same thing.

[pimpin4rizeal]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

have to say, what does a previous owner care who the next owner is? They just want the maximum amount of return.  Feels strange when they talk about finding the right buyer. Funding the biggest offer more likely.

I mean the way senmens was speaking before about there being many offers but about finding the right  one just makes me think maybe he had a lot of power in the decision and now it looks the case he will remain in control 

[whelk]

Brentford are awash with Danes. Got rid of our two dodgy ones but wonder if will get any more

[TWar]

10 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Rasmus Ankersen is a very interesting character, features heavily in Christoph Biermann's Football Hackers book, worth a read if you get the chance and are open to the  significant role data plays in todays professional game.  If you're not a fan of backing decisions or thoughts with data then prepare yourself to be pissed off - suspect that could impact a few on here.  I'm not certain if he was the first to publicly back a manager using xG (expected goals) but he was doing that 4 years ago whilst at FC Midtjylland.  He was also part of Brentford ditching their youth development teams, a financial decision and arguably the correct one, allow the Bees to pick up players from top teams who's pathway was blocked.

As I said an interesting character but from what I've seen so far the decisions he's a part of are for the betterment of the club.

Buckle up... 

I think in the modern era the vast vast majority of clubs use data driven approaches, including but not limited to expected goals. It is cool that we have one of the pioneers of it present, and someone who used it to excellent effect already at Brentford.

It's time to learn your statistical modelling, keep up or get out the way 😂

[Chez]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I feel the same for three reasons:

1) I like that it seems from various sources that we turned down multiple offers until we found the right one for the club

2) I like that it has football experts involved like the fella from Brentford

3) I like the multiclub redbull model. For me a model like that will tend to has its crown jewel in the biggest league and there isn't a bigger league than the prem, so I suspect we will be able to pick up bargains from sister clubs which feels very positive.

1. Not if they simply turned down offers that were too low. I dont buy this `right' buyer. Right price more like.

2. was the football guy instrumental in finding and signing the players that came good? If so, thats a big plus.

3. if we can take the best of our feeder clubs, that is  big win. Long way to go before this is a reality though.

 

[TWar]

Just now, Chez said:

1. Not if they simply turned down offers that were too low. I dont buy this `right' buyer. Right price more like.

2. was the football guy instrumental in finding and signing the players that came good? If so, thats a big plus.

3. if we can take the best of our feeder clubs, that is  big win. Long way to go before this is a reality though.

 

1) Maybe, but £100m doesn't sound like a particularly high price. I imagine there were lots of people willing to part with that for a prem club with our playing talent and stadium. Can't be sure though, but basically every major saints journo says that Semmens had a huge part in ensuring the right buyer and not just the one with the most cash so I'm inclined to believe them

2) Apparently so. Big xG guy alongside others and has been optimizing around it since, huge part of Brentfords identity as a club.

3) Its a long term thing I think. With our current squad we have plenty to stay up with Ralph at the helm so if we invest enough to be competitive then we can continue to grow and look into the long term. Evolution not revolution. I like this personally as a fan of Ralph, Semmens, and the concept of not just buying success but actually building and developing things.

[Smirking_Saint]

11 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Cynical but I get the feeling senmens idea of finding the right buyer, was to find one who lets senmens stay in control..: must say the deal doesn’t sound that exciting to me..

What exactly where you expecting

[tajjuk]

8 minutes ago, Chez said:

can you explain why you feel that way? I mean, it's an incredibly low bar - but even so, what do you think will change for the good?

For me -

1. It not being leveraged is a good start. We saw with De Grossa and the Burnley takeover those are pretty common 'investors' about at the moment. 

2. As others have said they seem to have a plan.

3. I actually trust quite a lot the board we already have in Semmens etc. I think they have done a good job in the circumstances and been pretty communicative, they had a lot to deal with, Gao basically investing nothing (which is not entirely his fault), the club being up for sale for a long time, some awful transfer decisions hamstringing the club from previous regime, covid etc. So when they say they were waiting for the right buyer to come along and these people are that (also many sources seemingly saying that many other potential buyers have been talked to/turned down) I trust them on that and it gives me hope.

4. Actual football people involved.

5. The main guy is supposedly a billionaire. 

6. Us being the top of a pyramid of networked clubs, I can't see that being anything but a good thing for us. Extends our scouting reach into different countries, we should get players coming to us with decent experience and essentially we are just massively extending the size and reach of our academy. A simple numbers game says if you have 4 clubs across Europe all looking for talent and training local talent with the cream coming to us we should get some good players coming through. 

 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I mean the way senmens was speaking before about there being many offers but about finding the right  one just makes me think maybe he had a lot of power in the decision and now it looks the case he will remain in control 

Semmens has been excellent. A couple of duds here and there but our signings have been very good imo. Tino has been the signing of the summer for me, given age, quality and price. Alongside this, Ings and Vest are both good candidates for the sale of the summer both being in the last year of their contracts and now looking very mediocre.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

1) Maybe, but £100m doesn't sound like a particularly high price. I imagine there were lots of people willing to part with that for a prem club with our playing talent and stadium. Can't be sure though, but basically every major saints journo says that Semmens had a huge part in ensuring the right buyer and not just the one with the most cash so I'm inclined to believe them

2) Apparently so. Big xG guy alongside others and has been optimizing around it since, huge part of Brentfords identity as a club.

3) Its a long term thing I think. With our current squad we have plenty to stay up with Ralph at the helm so if we invest enough to be competitive then we can continue to grow and look into the long term. Evolution not revolution. I like this personally as a fan of Ralph, Semmens, and the concept of not just buying success but actually building and developing things.

please tell me one reason why Gao sells to someone offering less money (assuming they both actually have the money and can complete the deal)?

Semmens and anyone else can spin it how they want, but its all bollocks. Gao sold to the highest credible/real/actual bidder.  

[Smirking_Saint]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

Brentford are awash with Danes. Got rid of our two dodgy ones but wonder if will get any more

In what way was Hojbjerg dodgy 😂

The year he left he was statistically the best DM in the prem and pulling similar numbers at Spurs

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In what way was Hojbjerg dodgy 😂

The year he left he was statistically the best DM in the prem and pulling similar numbers at Spurs

That gingerness, shit tattoos and generally pale and pasty faced all add up to dodgy.

Contrast with Vest who is just dodgy at football

[TWar]

Just now, Chez said:

please tell me one reason why Gao sells to someone offering less money (assuming they both actually have the money and can complete the deal)?

Semmens and anyone else can spin it how they want, but its all bollocks. Gao sold to the highest credible/real/actual bidder.  

Well we don't know the contract he signed when he joined. Maybe it included a clause saying sale of his share must be to a buyer approved by Kat? Maybe when bad potential owners were feeling out the club Semmens and co wouldn't work with them, thereby putting the bad owners off as completely rebuilding the backroom staff is a lot of work. Who knows, the point is basically everyone has said he had a say and I don't see a good reason to not believe that.

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

For me -

1. It not being leveraged is a good start. We saw with De Grossa and the Burnley takeover those are pretty common 'investors' about at the moment. 

2. As others have said they seem to have a plan.

3. I actually trust quite a lot the board we already have in Semmens etc. I think they have done a good job in the circumstances and been pretty communicative, they had a lot to deal with, Gao basically investing nothing (which is not entirely his fault), the club being up for sale for a long time, some awful transfer decisions hamstringing the club from previous regime, covid etc. So when they say they were waiting for the right buyer to come along and these people are that (also many sources seemingly saying that many other potential buyers have been talked to/turned down) I trust them on that and it gives me hope.

4. Actual football people involved.

5. The main guy is supposedly a billionaire. 

6. Us being the top of a pyramid of networked clubs, I can't see that being anything but a good thing for us. Extends our scouting reach into different countries, we should get players coming to us with decent experience and essentially we are just massively extending the size and reach of our academy. A simple numbers game says if you have 4 clubs across Europe all looking for talent and training local talent with the cream coming to us we should get some good players coming through. 

 

not being leveraged is certainly a great start.

Not sure is buy this great plan as yet, but hope it pans out

I also trust the current folks (Semmens) and their track record, although don't believe they turned down a credible `higher' bid, as the shareholder will just want to maximise his return.

Actual football people involved can be a good thing.

is he a billionaire like Gao?

Yep, like the top of a pyramid thing.

 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

In what way was Hojbjerg dodgy 😂

The year he left he was statistically the best DM in the prem and pulling similar numbers at Spurs

He wasn't. He was second for recoveries but pretty average on everything else. His passing numbers and possession loss numbers were awful and he also had the amusing honour of the player with the worst shooting accuracy in the league and the player with the most shots having not scored a single goal (not that these effect his quality as a DM, they are just quite funny).

The season he left, and the one after, JWP was a significantly better holding mid statistically speaking on most metrics.

[Toadhall Saint]

17 minutes ago, Chez said:

can't do any harm.

Hope they can see ways of making the money go further. In the end, that's what its all about. Buying the right players within the available budget. Doing that hasn't got any easier though.

Never was easy but I know what you mean. I think they will invest but it will be up and coming talent and not necessarily Uk based.

[charliemiller]

I would suggest maybe it's 100 m in Gaos pocket and takeover lander sports.london limited or whatevers it's called that is carrying the mcquarrie debt .

[tajjuk]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

is he a billionaire like Gao?

Well it's hard to nail down people's wealth, but the Serbian media seem to claim he is their first homegrown Billionaire. Whether that is true or not I don't know. 

He seems to own plenty of businesses, including one that supposedly makes over 1.5 billion a year (which owns the rights to PL in Serbia as well) and already has a business based in the UK from what they are saying.

So Gao was a complete unknown pretty much, whereas this guy seems much more established in Europe and the UK, so the details about him are probably easier to confirm by all the Journos. 

-------------------------

On a side not be quite cool if one our feeder clubs was based in the Serbia or Croatia, especially with one of the owners being Serbian, those two relatively small countries population wise produce some quality players. 

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Never was easy but I know what you mean. I think they will invest but it will be up and coming talent and not necessarily Uk based.

when I read the word `invest' I think owner gift or loan. Or do you mean, the club using its own money will buy young players. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Well it's hard to nail down people's wealth, but the Serbian media seem to claim he is their first homegrown Billionaire. Whether that is true or not I don't know. 

He seems to own plenty of businesses, including one that supposedly makes over 1.5 billion a year (which owns the rights to PL in Serbia as well) and already has a business based in the UK from what they are saying.

 

makes £1.5 billion profit? That sounds like a lot for a product that they need to buy from the Premier League first before selling on. 

Usually these guys own companies and shares that have a value, rather than him having cash in the bank, but I know nothing. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

19 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

What exactly where you expecting

It’s not so much about expecting.but I’d of liked someone with a lot of ambition in control of our club

so give me a cortèse, a red bull or Arab takeover all day long..

cortese once said you “when you sell your best players you sell your ambition”

under senmens we have a man who wants us to be a shop window for young players- a 2022 Rupert Lowe basically  I don’t get why everyone is that impressed by him

[Toadhall Saint]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

when I read the word `invest' I think owner gift or loan. Or do you mean, the club using its own money will buy young players. 

The former 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

makes £1.5 billion profit? That sounds like a lot for a product that they need to buy from the Premier League first before selling on. 

Usually these guys own companies and shares that have a value, rather than him having cash in the bank, but I know nothing. 

Distributing premier league football seemingly is only a small part of what his company does.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

makes £1.5 billion profit? That sounds like a lot for a product that they need to buy from the Premier League first before selling on. 

Usually these guys own companies and shares that have a value, rather than him having cash in the bank, but I know nothing. 

40 million customers across 11 countries. He has more than just prem rights eg broad band supplier plus other media channel’s 

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

It’s not so much about expecting.but I’d of liked someone with a lot of ambition in control of our club

so give me a cortèse, a red bull or Arab takeover all day long..

cortese once said you “when you sell your best players you sell your ambition”

under senmens we have a man who wants us to be a shop window for young players- a 2022 Rupert Lowe basically  I don’t get why everyone is that impressed by him

They are putting a red bull model in place? 
 

cortese was good at quotes while spending the clubs money - more clubs than not need to sell their best players - Grealish etc.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

 

under senmens we have a man who wants us to be a shop window for young players- a 2022 Rupert Lowe basically  I don’t get why everyone is that impressed by him

Where does that come from? Semmens has been running a club reliant on its income so he's needed to duck and dive to keep us going, and be as competitive as possible. Part of that has meant we've needed to sell, but it's more than a stretch to say that anyone wants us to sell our talent. 

Hopefully we'll have more cash to work with now. 

[John D]

I guess we will find out if the loan has been repaid in the next few weeks if the associated charges are satisfied. 

 

Also I see on companies House that Rasmus Ankersen is not a director but the other 2 are. 

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

They are putting a red bull model in place? 
 

cortese was good at quotes while spending the clubs money - more clubs than not need to sell their best players - Grealish etc.

Cortese was good at spending the owners money, and spending more than he had authority too. Fortunately we now have more considered people with their hands on the wheel. 

[East Kent Saint]

I suppose this explains our teams sudden burst of enthusiasm , playing for a place in the new set up.

[egg]

1 minute ago, John D said:

I guess we will find out if the loan has been repaid in the next few weeks if the associated charges are satisfied. 

 

Also I see on companies House that Rasmus Ankersen is not a director but the other 2 are. 

We'll also see if they've been replaced with any alternative charge(s). 

Ankersen was a consultant at Brentford I believe, but that could be for a variety of reasons. 

[saint1977]

I don’t think Ankersen, with his reputation, gives up Brentford and FCM without a bit more resource behind him. Not anywhere near what Everton did or Newcastle will do but resource to back up clear methods and a business plan.

The academy is a bonus for him, it didn’t make sense at Brentford with Chelsea on the doorstep but with the facilities at Staplewood it brings the ability to develop a cohort of players across a group of clubs. Everton ran out of headroom with FFP quickly after the £500m splurge and are rebooting their strategy rapidly, buying now the sort of players (especially the two this window) that I think Saints will be back in the market for without having to sell JWP or Salisu, unless Newcastle offer £70m for the former as a ‘marquee signing’. Or even sell Targett to buy Che leaving us with one recognised left back, although £17m was a good sale to Villa actually. 

No leveraged debt is a big plus for me. Burnley fans would swap. 

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, John D said:

Also I see on companies House that Rasmus Ankersen is not a director but the other 2 are. 

I'd guess Ankersen might act as a director of football to look after the group of clubs they buy as a whole, with Matt Crocker remaining Saints director of football 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

... 

 

Edited 4 January, 2022 by egg

[egg]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

... 

 

[TWar]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

I'd guess Ankersen might act as a director of football to look after the group of clubs they buy as a whole, with Matt Crocker remaining Saints director of football 

Yeah that's what I took from what Semmens said this afternoon

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I'd guess Ankersen might act as a director of football to look after the group of clubs they buy as a whole, with Matt Crocker remaining Saints director of football 

Interesting thought. Has there been any mention of him continuing to be involved with FC Midtjylland? Them becoming part of the group seems logical. 

[davefizzy14]

Very reassuring to hear that both Semmens and Crocker are remaining in the current set up. Listening to Martin speak to Adam earlier on Solent, he speaks very well and knows what he is doing

Very exciting times ahead with the takeover now complete. Dragan is a very wealthy tycoon. 

Edited 4 January, 2022 by davefizzy14

[John D]

That would make sense re Ankersen.

 

Looks like Comp House hasn't been updated to show the investment by Dragan yet in Sport Republic.  I was wondering what % his investment is.  Currently still has Andersen and Kraft owning 66% and 33% respectively.  But no requirement to notify comp house immediately though.