Sport Republic

[Singapore Saint]

On 10/11/2021 at 02:52, washsaint said:

What a f$$$$$$ idiotic thing to say.  Clueless

Yeah, let's go Brandon!

Edited 13 November, 2021 by Singapore Saint

[Singapore Saint]

On 11/11/2021 at 07:41, saint1977 said:

Not looking for Saudi style investment, just not having to sell a key player every year to survive.

We've never had to sell in order to survive, apart from Bale and Walcott whom we had to flog. Our best players leave because they want to, not because they have to.

[Give it to Ron]

18 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

We've never had to sell in order to survive, apart from Bale and Walcott whom we had to flog. Our best players leave because they want to, not because they have to.

Am afraid your wrong and forgetting Andrew Surman who we had to sell

[AlexLaw76]

50 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

We've never had to sell in order to survive, apart from Bale and Walcott whom we had to flog. Our best players leave because they want to, not because they have to.

If we never had to sell to survive.  How come we appear to need to?

I guess the definition of survival is key.  To survive in the prem, yes.  To survive in existence, not quite (yet)

[egg]

12 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Have Palace and West Ham had any big sales over the past couple of years to explain the gulf in potential additional spending? Both have spent plenty on players, but I can't remember any big sales balancing the books (Wan-Bissaka for Palace I guess, but that was yonks ago). Is it just commercial revenue that's the difference?

Good points. Is it as simple as us having been shafted by that dodgy sponsor so not having any major sponsorship income in that period? If not, I'm struggling to understand why we lag beind Palace, Brighton etc. 

[Streaky]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Good points. Is it as simple as us having been shafted by that dodgy sponsor so not having any major sponsorship income in that period? If not, I'm struggling to understand why we lag beind Palace, Brighton etc. 

Bloated squad and extremely high wage bill for a club of our size. We pay big money for certain players.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Bloated squad and extremely high wage bill for a club of our size. We pay big money for certain players.

isn't that exactly the same for all Premier League squads our size, who have not just been promoted?

When you say Bloated Squad.  Really?

[egg]

31 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Bloated squad and extremely high wage bill for a club of our size. We pay big money for certain players.

Someone said Palace have a higher wage bill than us so the question was how do they have a higher spending "allowance" than we do. 

[Minsk]

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

Interesting….

 

 

16 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

That chart is ugly viewing as a Saints supporter.

It's one thing blaming the owner but considering we have stayed in the league as long as we have, I think we should be doing better in terms of commercial income.

 

14 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Have Palace and West Ham had any big sales over the past couple of years to explain the gulf in potential additional spending? Both have spent plenty on players, but I can't remember any big sales balancing the books (Wan-Bissaka for Palace I guess, but that was yonks ago). Is it just commercial revenue that's the difference?

This is my take on it (as posted on another thread):

I believe that the figure quoted for Saints is far lower than the reality will prove (i.e. that we will be able to spend more than the 37m quoted without breaking FFP rules - not that we have the means to do so, of course, so all a bit moot). My reasoning for this is:

The article clearly states that the sums shown are for the upcoming January transfer window. It also states that only Man Utd have so far published 2021 accounts, and that all other club's figures could (I believe that should be will) change when theirs are also released. The January window spending should be based on profits/losses made from January 2019 to January 2022. The article is primarily basing its figures on profit/loss from 2017-2020. FFP states that clubs can make a rolling loss of 105m over a 3 year period. By the article stating we can only spend a further 37m they are indicating that we have 3 year rolling loss of 68m. Now, I don't know if this is true or not (I am sure there are some on here who are more knowledgeable in this regard) but, just looking at transfers alone, feel this is highly weighted against us by our transfer spending in the 2018/19 season. That year we spent around 77m on 5 players (Che, Ings, Gunn, Vest and Moussa). However 2 of those (Vest and Gunn) were in the summer of 2018, so that combined 28m won't (or shouldn't, by my reckoning) count in January. On the contrary, from January 1st that year, we sold players to the value of around 33.5m. Going by those figures alone, come January, we should be around 61.5m better towards FFP than the article has us at present - meaning we should be able to spend 98.5m to stay within FFP, which sounds far more reasonable to me. (From all subsequent transfer windows we have made a profit of around 6/7m in player trading. So if we are only able to spend 37m in January, as the article states, it would mean we have made a pre-tax loss of 73/74m without player trading. If my figures are correct that would be reduced to around 2-3m in losses. Seeing as we are supposedly being run in a self-sustaining way, I would say this is probably more accurate. The only reason I think of their figures being more accurate is the loan we took out, but that shouldn't come into play as it repayable yet).

As I said, all moot in any event. I think we probably only have around 10m to spend in January. We possibly could push the boat out a bit further, but will be surprised if we even spend that much - or anything at all. We don't really do January incomings. Maybe an incoming loan at best.

[Wade Garrett]

Any takeover news?

[verlaine1979]

7 hours ago, egg said:

Someone said Palace have a higher wage bill than us so the question was how do they have a higher spending "allowance" than we do. 

Yup, I think Palace wage bill was about 10m more than us and West Ham 15-20m more. The idea that we've been carrying more dead wood than others has never really washed. 

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Any takeover news?

Wrong place mate.

[saint1977]

On 13/11/2021 at 07:25, Singapore Saint said:

We've never had to sell in order to survive, apart from Bale and Walcott whom we had to flog. Our best players leave because they want to, not because they have to.

Not true - do you think Che could have been bought without selling Matt Targett for £17m first? Do you really think JWP won’t be sold next summer to fund any more squad bolstering? Les and Ross left a dreadful mess - Rupert, Wilde and Branfoot combined - and the owner probably couldn’t fund Netley Central let alone a PL club. Any increase in debt and/or relegation is an existential threat. The hard work Semmens, Crocker and RH have done with the squad means we should be in reasonable shape to get a buyer in the Champ in administration, if Gabbiadini didn’t stick his foot out at Swansea the club probably folds in 18 months with the pile of IOUs Les and Ross had built up. 

Edited 14 November, 2021 by saint1977

[badgerx16]

On 13/11/2021 at 08:25, egg said:

Good points. Is it as simple as us having been shafted by that dodgy sponsor.......

How much was that deal supposed to bring in ?

[saint1977]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

How much was that deal supposed to bring in ?

£7.5m a season is the figure I recall. Some speculation at the time as to whether the first year’s full payment was received. Whole thing stank and very dodgy. 

[JRM]

2 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

£7.5m a season is the figure I recall. Some speculation at the time as to whether the first year’s full payment was received. Whole thing stank and very dodgy. 

That's the number I recall, not sure if we ever got a penny, well and truly done on that one. Would love to see the checks Saints carried out on LD Sports or did Gao just tell the board to sign the deal. 

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/southampton-agree-record-shirt-sponsorship-deal-with-ld-sports_sto7269631/story.shtml

[JRM]

I'm sure the full story will come out one day 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/aug/25/southampton-say-no-alternative-but-to-ditch-shirt-sponsor-ld-sports

[Suhari]

12 hours ago, JRM said:

I'm sure the full story will come out one day 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/aug/25/southampton-say-no-alternative-but-to-ditch-shirt-sponsor-ld-sports

Do we know what happened to their office near St Mary's?

And more importantly, The Squirrel?

Edited 15 November, 2021 by Suhari

[Ted Bates Statue]

On 13/11/2021 at 03:04, Maggie May said:

What would you suggest? 

Fair question, glad you asked. A few years ago an individual was linked with the club who had some highly innovative ideas for getting our commercial income on an even footing with more handsomely-funded rivals, and I believe that his consortium's involvement would be key to our chances of improving this aspect of the club's performance. Some of his ideas were leaked and analysed on this very forum and the consensus was broadly positive. Although a deal was not forthcoming at the time, In my opinion, we caught a glimpse of exactly the level of ambition and drive required to take the club to the next level. I personally remain optimistic that one day, Marc Jackson could yet return to the club in some capacity.

[Wade Garrett]

I think the Monkey Petting Zoo would have been a real game changer for the club.

[Wurzel]

32 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I think the Monkey Petting Zoo would have been a real game changer for the club.

Can someone remind me. The scrap of paper featuring the MPZ is now legendary but was it just a piss take or meant to be a genuine idea? There was so much going on on here around that time truth and fiction seems to have blurred in the memory

 

Edited 15 November, 2021 by Wurzel

[trousers]

4 hours ago, Wurzel said:

Can someone remind me. The scrap of paper featuring the MPZ is now legendary but was it just a piss take or meant to be a genuine idea? There was so much going on on here around that time truth and fiction seems to have blurred in the memory

 

My recollection is that it was a genuine proposal drawn up by Marc Jackson re: pipedream Bournemouth takeover

[verlaine1979]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

My recollection is that it was a genuine proposal drawn up by Marc Jackson re: pipedream Bournemouth takeover

Marc Jackson's Farm was going to be the name.

[Singapore Saint]

On 15/11/2021 at 03:53, saint1977 said:

Not true - do you think Che could have been bought without selling Matt Targett for £17m first? Do you really think JWP won’t be sold next summer to fund any more squad bolstering? Les and Ross left a dreadful mess - Rupert, Wilde and Branfoot combined - and the owner probably couldn’t fund Netley Central let alone a PL club. Any increase in debt and/or relegation is an existential threat. The hard work Semmens, Crocker and RH have done with the squad means we should be in reasonable shape to get a buyer in the Champ in administration, if Gabbiadini didn’t stick his foot out at Swansea the club probably folds in 18 months with the pile of IOUs Les and Ross had built up. 

I said we never needed to sell in order to survive except when we were close to administration (thank God for Marcus Liebherr RIP). Selling in order to survive is different from selling to fund the purchase of new players, something we are destined to keep doing until we find a minted sugardaddy/mummy.

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

I said we never needed to sell in order to survive except when we were close to administration (thank God for Marcus Liebherr RIP). Selling in order to survive is different from selling to fund the purchase of new players, something we are destined to keep doing until we find a minted sugardaddy/mummy.

In a hyper competitive league like the PL, if you can’t freshen the squad regularly, you go down and Gao can’t fund the club in any way in the Champ. The best we could hope for is Norwich: bobbing between the two divisions not competing in the PL until they have one bad season and the parachute payments run out and the PL infrastructure and overheads are there minus the income.

[Roo1976]

so ......................to sum up NOTHING here to think we've moved a step nearer to being taken over....................nice. This is like click bait this thread.🤑

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

In a hyper competitive league like the PL, if you can’t freshen the squad regularly, you go down and Gao can’t fund the club in any way in the Champ. The best we could hope for is Norwich: bobbing between the two divisions not competing in the PL until they have one bad season and the parachute payments run out and the PL infrastructure and overheads are there minus the income.

Very pessimistic. We are not in danger of relegation this season. The quality gulf between promoted clubs and mid table PL clubs is huge and will continue to grow which should ensure our future in the PL. More often than not the three clubs that get promoted will become the three clubs relegated in the following season. It's happening now.

If this becomes the 'norm' inevitably there will be calls for a closed league. Witness last night's travesty; where was the satisfaction in beating a minnow 10-0. What was the point of them actually being in the competition.

[saint1977]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very pessimistic. We are not in danger of relegation this season. The quality gulf between promoted clubs and mid table PL clubs is huge and will continue to grow which should ensure our future in the PL. More often than not the three clubs that get promoted will become the three clubs relegated in the following season. It's happening now.

If this becomes the 'norm' inevitably there will be calls for a closed league. Witness last night's travesty; where was the satisfaction in beating a minnow 10-0. What was the point of them actually being in the competition.

This season I agree, I think the team is looking a lot more solid. However, it is asking a lot of the manager to keep selling the best player every summer and get the recruitment to replace and strengthen spot on. This summer they did by the looks of it but sell to buy means you come a cropper eventually as a club will come up and spend as Wolves did.

Agree that last night’s England game a waste. Have long argued that San Marino and co should have a similar system to cricket, associate members and pre tournament to win the right to play the more substantial nations as we saw with the T20 WC.

Roo - silence from the club doesn’t mean no talks or interest. Markus didn’t appear in the headlines until late on in 2009 and that was in a dire situation for the club. Interested parties will be sounding out what Gao will take, KL’s share, stadium improvements and overhaul, look at the overhead model and assess where the club could be taken with a bit more investment in terms of its PL niche. Then if there’s further interest there might be a period of exclusivity to really home in on the books although those are less common now. What I do think is that the summer just gone will help the process as a lot of the appalling arrears and deadwood Les and Ross left is gone and more gone by next summer eg Forster’s extension. The MSD loan has to be factored in from the other side. 

 

[manji]

13 hours ago, trousers said:

My recollection is that it was a genuine proposal drawn up by Marc Jackson re: pipedream Bournemouth takeover

dreadful times.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very pessimistic. We are not in danger of relegation this season. The quality gulf between promoted clubs and mid table PL clubs is huge and will continue to grow which should ensure our future in the PL. More often than not the three clubs that get promoted will become the three clubs relegated in the following season. It's happening now.

If this becomes the 'norm' inevitably there will be calls for a closed league. Witness last night's travesty; where was the satisfaction in beating a minnow 10-0. What was the point of them actually being in the competition.

I think you're being overly optimistic, we might not be in a relegation battle at the moment but we are are very much in a position where we can be sucked in. And you can't always rely on the relegated teams being worse, as already stated you survive by always pushing forward, by refreshing the squad and having a progressive management team. It's a big ask to always get that right and we are just a few bad decisions away from dropping.

It has been like this most of the time we've supported the Saints. We normally get away with it and have a few scalps along the way, long may it continue.

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very pessimistic. We are not in danger of relegation this season. The quality gulf between promoted clubs and mid table PL clubs is huge and will continue to grow which should ensure our future in the PL. More often than not the three clubs that get promoted will become the three clubs relegated in the following season. It's happening now.

If this becomes the 'norm' inevitably there will be calls for a closed league. Witness last night's travesty; where was the satisfaction in beating a minnow 10-0. What was the point of them actually being in the competition.

Agreed. We haven't been in a relegation scrap since Ralph came in and saved us in his first season. The way he (and our recruitment team) are growing the club now, i have very little doubts we are on a solid footing and will be challenging the top half and potentially for europe again shortly.

Edited 16 November, 2021 by Saint86

[Professor]

On 13/11/2021 at 07:44, Give it to Ron said:

Am afraid your wrong and forgetting Andrew Surman who we had to sell

Historic player sales in the pre-Leibherr era are irrelevant to the policies of the club today.  Surman was sold in the 2009 close season when the club were on the road to administration.

With a few exceptions, players of top quality have left this club of their own accord, attracted by money, potential trophies, or greater fame in the champions' league.  If a payer refuses to renew his contract we can see the club trying to protect its financial interest as best it can, before the player can leave for free.  Ings was a perfect example although many would say he misjudged where his best interest lay.   Van Dijk, widely said to have been illegally approached by Liverpool,  left for money and fame despite the club's resistance.  Some fans thought he engineered the move simply by underperforming on the field,  In my opinion, the club were not motivated by the fee but they did negotiate a respectable £75m.    

     

[Charlie Wayman]

4 hours ago, saint1977 said:

This season I agree, I think the team is looking a lot more solid. However, it is asking a lot of the manager to keep selling the best player every summer and get the recruitment to replace and strengthen spot on. This summer they did by the looks of it but sell to buy means you come a cropper eventually as a club will come up and spend as Wolves did.

Agree that last night’s England game a waste. Have long argued that San Marino and co should have a similar system to cricket, associate members and pre tournament to win the right to play the more substantial nations as we saw with the T20 WC.

Roo - silence from the club doesn’t mean no talks or interest. Markus didn’t appear in the headlines until late on in 2009 and that was in a dire situation for the club. Interested parties will be sounding out what Gao will take, KL’s share, stadium improvements and overhaul, look at the overhead model and assess where the club could be taken with a bit more investment in terms of its PL niche. Then if there’s further interest there might be a period of exclusivity to really home in on the books although those are less common now. What I do think is that the summer just gone will help the process as a lot of the appalling arrears and deadwood Les and Ross left is gone and more gone by next summer eg Forster’s extension. The MSD loan has to be factored in from the other side. 

 

In fairness to Ralph and the Club, none of the trio of Bertrand, Ings & Vestergaard were sold willingly in the summer (assuming they were our best players) - all refused to sign on again for us. We did not set out to sell any of our best players to raise funds and I'm certain we will not be doing so next summer. This has become an urban myth. If players won't sign a new contract then there is little Ralph or the Club can do about it.

That doesn't make us a selling club, it means there are some deeper problems within our culture, organisation or environment that turn players right off during their time here so they want out once their contracts end. This is the issue that needs to be addressed because we will never improve if we cannot hold on to our best talent. One suspects the simple word ambition might be tucked in there somewhere as well.

 

Of course it can also be simply down to money;  that all players are greedy sods just out to get the fattest wedge they can lay their sweaty palms on.

 

[waylander]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

In fairness to Ralph and the Club, none of the trio of Bertrand, Ings & Vestergaard were sold willingly in the summer (assuming they were our best players) - all refused to sign on again for us. We did not set out to sell any of our best players to raise funds and I'm certain we will not be doing so next summer. This has become an urban myth. If players won't sign a new contract then there is little Ralph or the Club can do about it.

That doesn't make us a selling club, it means there are some deeper problems within our culture, organisation or environment that turn players right off during their time here so they want out once their contracts end. This is the issue that needs to be addressed because we will never improve if we cannot hold on to our best talent. One suspects the simple word ambition might be tucked in there somewhere as well.

 

Of course it can also be simply down to money;  that all players are greedy sods just out to get the fattest wedge they can lay their sweaty palms on.

 

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the most accurate

[hypochondriac]

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

Good oh - cheers for posting 

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

👀 ITK watch. You have work to do to redeem yourself.......

[miserableoldgit]

30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

Any vague connection to this?? https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/premier-league-nears-record-sale-us-tv-rights-about-2-bln-ft-2021-11-15/

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

The only thing I’d ask is how reliable is the person you heard it from?

[HarvSFC]

On a scale of Pilchards’ builder to Guan/K Billy

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

The only thing I’d ask is how reliable is the person you heard it from?

They've been right before on some things and then some things they've said haven't happened but that could have been because situations change. Will be interesting to see if right though. 

[hypochondriac]

50 minutes ago, Turkish said:

👀 ITK watch. You have work to do to redeem yourself.......

If you remember I said similar last year and then it didn't happen so I don't have a great track record with takeovers. I know all about the kits though! 

[SuperSAINT]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

They've been right before on some things and then some things they've said haven't happened but that could have been because situations change. Will be interesting to see if right though. 

To be fair to you (& your source) & based on what Semmens has said before, that’s quite likely.

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, waylander said:

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the most accurate

Who said Vesty, Bertrand and Ings were our best players? They were all nearer the end than the beginning and had all had injury problems and on current form none of then would get in today's Saints team

[Suhari]

14 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

On a scale of Pilchards’ builder to Guan/K Billy

😀

Keep repeating 'Pilchards Builder' to myself in the style of John Inman.

I have no choice but to work it into a sentence when I'm in the pub later.

[waylander]

14 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Who said Vesty, Bertrand and Ings were our best players? They were all nearer the end than the beginning and had all had injury problems and on current form none of then would get in today's Saints team

What on earth are you talking about?

Look at the part of @Charlie Wayman's post that I bolded - that means expanding the the statement I quoted. That was what I was replying to. I made no mention of of Bertrand. Vesty and Ings.

You can apologise now.

Edited 16 November, 2021 by waylander

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

If you remember I said similar last year and then it didn't happen so I don't have a great track record with takeovers. I know all about the kits though! 

Yep that’s why I said you need to redeem yourself. The eyes of saintsweb on you for the next few weeks.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

On a scale of Pilchards’ builder to Guan/K Billy

In fairness hypo is closer to guan/billy than Dave the builder, but I’d like to hear Dave’s thoughts on it. 

[hypochondriac]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yep that’s why I said you need to redeem yourself. The eyes of saintsweb on you for the next few weeks.

They'll announce it in January just to spite me. 

[trousers]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I've heard more rumours again of an American takeover. Some people saying we will hear news before the end of the year. No idea about it so don't ask! 

Cheers for the insight Hypo.

Do you know if this is Americans we've previously been linked with (tenuously or otherwise) or is it completely fresh interest from someone/a consortium that's not been linked before?

Ta.