Sport Republic

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Information such as what exactly on takeovers?

He had fingers in pies of the Wigan takeover, for sure.

[Billy the Kidd]

43 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

He had fingers in pies of the Wigan takeover, for sure.

And I am reliably informed that Wigan have some of the best match day pies in English football 🤤

[JustinSFC]

59 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

He had fingers in pies of the Wigan takeover, for sure.

... And Bolton and Sunderland and Notts County and Burnley an absolute mile before anyone else.

But he's just looking for an argument and I can't be arsed to reply to him anymore.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by JustinSFC

[tajjuk]

Former Roma co-owner and US Billionaire James Pallotta has expressed interest in buying a PL club, though he has specifically name dropped Newcastle. 

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Former Roma co-owner and US Billionaire James Pallotta has expressed interest in buying a PL club, though he has specifically name dropped Newcastle. 

as part of an investment group. Not sure that is any good long term?

[trousers]

Some interesting posts from 'new' and old posters alike on this thread in recent weeks

[tajjuk]

8 hours ago, skintsaint said:

as part of an investment group. Not sure that is any good long term?

No idea, just a possibility if there are several groups interested then his could be one of them. From reading further he did ok at Roma with multiple 2nd place finishes but it then ended in controversy with a lot of star players (like Allison to pool) being sold. 

[JustinSFC]

5 hours ago, trousers said:

Some interesting posts from 'new' and old posters alike on this thread in recent weeks

No no no.

Don't even go there. Ffs.

I was on here about 6 years ago'ish and you were the same person then as you are now.

Yes I'm a new poster, but I'm not NEW new.

 

 

[Give it to Ron]

There is a new super yacht arriving in Southampton this morning......just saw it can’t see any ear lobes though 

[Tamesaint]

I have just got off the phone to Saint David.

He has no idea what is happening 

 

[skintsaint]

On 18/03/2021 at 00:16, East Kent Saint said:

Derby takeover cancelled by current owner .....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56662890

 

[SuperSAINT]

Ipswich also taken over by a US group.

Marcus Evans has wiped the debt for 5% share of the group.  

[JustinSFC]

I wonder how strongly we'll speak out against this ESL proposal.

We've got a takeover on the line here.

If the big six get thrown out, what happens to all the premier League money?

[stevy777_x]

23 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

I wonder how strongly we'll speak out against this ESL proposal.

We've got a takeover on the line here.

If the big six get thrown out, what happens to all the premier League money?

Think we can forget about being taken over right now. No one isgonna buy us under this current climate.

[FarehamSaintJames]

23 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

I wonder how strongly we'll speak out against this ESL proposal.

We've got a takeover on the line here.

If the big six get thrown out, what happens to all the premier League money?

What takeover?

Or have I missed something?

[JustinSFC]

23 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

What takeover?

Or have I missed something?

Well Gao has us up for sale.

And I think we wanted to be taken over during the summer, as the bloke above said, it's the worst possible time now.
 

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

Think we can forget about being taken over right now. No one isgonna buy us under this current climate.

Could depend on other factors e.g. Gao realises asking price too high with this development, needs cashflow by this summer and internal pressure from the Chinese authorities. If next season looks like certain relegation and SFC turns into a big liability with contracts that can't be fulfilled, he appears to have no way politically or financially of meeting that, so admin and dropping down the leagues would be the only way. Better to take £100-120m in hand and offload the liabilities now. 

[SuperSAINT]

SOUTHAMPTON

Southampton’s takeover talks will undoubtedly hit a bump in the road in light of the Super League proposals.

The club’s majority shareholder, Gao Jisheng, is desperate to sell his 80 per cent stake and discussions have been ongoing with potential bidders for some time. But Sunday night’s announcement creates a level of uncertainty where the Premier League is concerned and will have prospective owners questioning whether it remains a worthwhile investment.

It’s no secret that Manchester United, Liverpool and company generate vast sums of interest and revenue for the other 14 Premier League sides, so if that is now in doubt, potential buyers will want to take stock and reassess their options.

Southampton felt like progress was being made with the interested parties, although time will soon tell whether those talks proceed in a positive way amid the doubts raised by the potential breakaway European Super League.

On Monday, manager Ralph Hasenhuttl voiced his objection to the Super League, saying: “We lost a game on Sunday (the FA Cup semi-final against Leicester), but I was not sleeping well because I think it is definitely a big threat, what I see coming up with this war from the big clubs against all the national leagues.

“We have to fight very hard against it and hopefully we have the fans on our side, that they are going with us; without the fans, football will not work.”

Dan Sheldon

[sadoldgit]

On 19/04/2021 at 12:02, JustinSFC said:

I wonder how strongly we'll speak out against this ESL proposal.

We've got a takeover on the line here.

If the big six get thrown out, what happens to all the premier League money?

There will still be a Premier League and they have contracts to honour. The price will come down in the future but the Premier isn’t just six clubs. If it means long term that some sensible money is spent all round, it won’t be a bad thing. If we think it isn’t a level playing field right now, just wait until the Greedy Six get their hands on ESL money.

[Mattio]

So now that ESL shite is off, do we think talks will resume regarding a takeover? Or are the stakeholders all going to still be shook by this?

[Billy the Kidd]

I think if anything it could accelerate proceedings.  The only issue now could be any fast track changes to ownership, but surely that would have to come with the full review that is being promised.

[Saint86]

I think we're fooked and have done for a while.

We have significant debt and are making huge losses. Our financial position is entirely unsustainable.

Admittedly this is a worst case scenario, but... The signs are that TV deals have peaked given the latest drop from China, and given the furore over the ESL, there is long term risk attached to anyone buying a football club at the top level, or in negotiating a TV deal currently. On top of that, the elite clubs are financially in serious trouble. If they start to go bust it will have huge ramifications for the pyramid. After the ESL, these owners are already rumoured to be blocking significant transfer spend in the current window which will have major knock on ramifications. Already we know that nearly all clubs have significant debt, limited funds, and really only player sales to get out of it - which by default makes those players worth less - and if the big teams do go bust it equals; transfer fees going unpaid, attendances dropping, guaranteed lower TV deals etc etc.

And on top of all that, there will always be this spectre of a ESL in the background, which is destined to return and will damage the profitability of any club not involved. So all in all I find myself very pessimistic over our chances of being taken over based on long term risks.

We certainly are not alone in our position, indeed it effects the majority of clubs, but I fear their is a significant correction in footballing finances on the horizon - and if we do get a situation where a few big teams to go pop then i fear it will spiral... We may be lucky to still have a club if it happens. 

On the flip side, where does that leave us? Hoping desperately for an American billionaire to sale his boat into the Solent and turn us into a franchise club? Depressing state of affairs. 

Edited 21 April, 2021 by Saint86

[Saint Garrett]

Lets be honest, these "investment groups" where owners own multiple clubs across the world, should not be allowed. 

[JustinSFC]

2 hours ago, Mattio said:

So now that ESL shite is off, do we think talks will resume regarding a takeover? Or are the stakeholders all going to still be shook by this?

I can't see it in the near future.

The fact that the last 72hrs has even happened makes the Premier League a massive gamble.

Unless we get bought by somebody with gobs and gobs of cash and doesn't mind taking a punt of a couple of hundred million.

[Wade Garrett]

The idea of a breakaway league, that has been hanging over football for years is now a busted flush.

Reduces the risk of any potential buyer significantly.

A correction on football finances will benefit the smaller clubs by reducing the gap between them and the bigger ones.  Won’t affect us that much with our financial policy anyway.

TV revenues for the Premier League will still be a lot more than foreign leagues.

All good for the game in my book.

[Give it to Ron]

So this ends one way, I think Gao loses shed load of cash and ends up desperate and having to sell as the value reduces by relegation .

I can’t see anyone buying us for what he wants and without investing in players we will go eventually with dumbed down quality.  Until the poison dwarf players contracts all finished Hoedt Lemina Elynoussi etc we are hamstrung on finance I worry when that repayment loan kicks in.

Edited 21 April, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[saint1977]

31 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The idea of a breakaway league, that has been hanging over football for years is now a busted flush.

Reduces the risk of any potential buyer significantly.

A correction on football finances will benefit the smaller clubs by reducing the gap between them and the bigger ones.  Won’t affect us that much with our financial policy anyway.

TV revenues for the Premier League will still be a lot more than foreign leagues.

All good for the game in my book.

Out of the two posts surrounding it, I prefer your take on it but then I’m not one of the prospective parties Dan Shelton alludes to considering ponying up £200m+ to buy SFC. Depends what they would want the club for as well as their means. It’ll be expensive to fix Les Reed’s errors and rebuild plus the COVID loan so purchase price will therefore be less than Gao would like. Relegation means the club will be worth far less even taking into the fixed assets so this summer makes more sense for him to sell plus their domestic market has had the bottom fall out of it with the collapse of their expensive league.

[JustinSFC]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

The idea of a breakaway league, that has been hanging over football for years is now a busted flush.

Reduces the risk of any potential buyer significantly.

A correction on football finances will benefit the smaller clubs by reducing the gap between them and the bigger ones.  Won’t affect us that much with our financial policy anyway.

TV revenues for the Premier League will still be a lot more than foreign leagues.

All good for the game in my book.

It's not over.

This will come up again.

Maybe not as bluntly, but it will.

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

It's not over.

This will come up again.

Maybe not as bluntly, but it will.

They’ve clumsily played their whole hand and lost.  I can’t see it.

[Saint86]

23 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

It's not over.

This will come up again.

Maybe not as bluntly, but it will.

Obviously this. Anyone who thinking otherwise is burying their head in the sand. The sport urgently needs reform and regulation to protect competition. 

[nta786]

Didn’t Gao increase our value to £250m when we were doing well?

Perhaps, this is all some 4D chess by Ralph and the board to do terribly now and lower our value to hopefully attract more prospective buyers  

I can imagine Gao as being someone very stubborn/with pride and not wanting to sell at any sort of a loss to save face. It may come home to roost sooner rather than later the longer he puts up with us.

[Convict Colony]

On 21/04/2021 at 10:24, Saint86 said:

I think we're fooked and have done for a while.

We have significant debt and are making huge losses. Our financial position is entirely unsustainable.

Sounds like bad for us but teams like Spurs, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan etc etc are 10x as fucked

[Dark Munster]

On 21/04/2021 at 04:48, Wade Garrett said:

They’ve clumsily played their whole hand and lost.  I can’t see it.

Yes but they've got tons of chips, and the other players are skint.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Sounds like bad for us but teams like Spurs, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan etc etc are 10x as fucked

I agree all the clubs are in a similar boat but I don't think it's as bad as people are making out. There's still plenty of money to be made in football, all that needs to happen is serious deflation in transfer fees and new contract terms for a few years

[redkeith]

It doesn't seem to have reached the UK press yet, but De Grossa's former club, FC Bordeaux went into liquidation last night after the NY hedge fund that owns them pulled the plug. 

I think Saints should count themselves very lucky that the De Grossa takeover did not happen.

On a transfer note though, Costil - Keeper , De Preville No 10 and Sabaly RB/LB ( who is out of contract anyway) would all be good signings  in a firesale . 

 

[SuperSAINT]

4 minutes ago, redkeith said:

It doesn't seem to have reached the UK press yet, but De Grossa's former club, FC Bordeaux went into liquidation last night after the NY hedge fund that owns them pulled the plug. 

I think Saints should count themselves very lucky that the De Grossa takeover did not happen.

On a transfer note though, Costil - Keeper , De Preville No 10 and Sabaly RB/LB ( who is out of contract anyway) would all be good signings  in a firesale. 

There was an article in The Athletic talking about the race to sign the best players from the french market this summer.   

[tajjuk]

So the Government review on football is considering the 50+1 rule that the Germans have, which could presumably then impact our sale (or maybe speed it up so Gao gets out before it happens) no idea how the Government etc. would enforce it though and make those current owners give up 51% of the clubs they own. 

Presumably it wouldn't really help us as likely it would really maintain the status quo more than anything as the bigger clubs would have the larger finances. 

[supersonic]

1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

So the Government review on football is considering the 50+1 rule that the Germans have, which could presumably then impact our sale (or maybe speed it up so Gao gets out before it happens) no idea how the Government etc. would enforce it though and make those current owners give up 51% of the clubs they own. 

Presumably it wouldn't really help us as likely it would really maintain the status quo more than anything as the bigger clubs would have the larger finances. 

Not sure how fans are supposed to raise 50% to buy shares from a club, even at a reduced rate?

I also cannot see owners giving away that high a portion of shares to fans. 

The German model is great, but they've always had it, so the club has grown with the 50+1%, not sure how realistic it'll be to implement in our game now 

[tajjuk]

25 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Not sure how fans are supposed to raise 50% to buy shares from a club, even at a reduced rate?

I also cannot see owners giving away that high a portion of shares to fans. 

The German model is great, but they've always had it, so the club has grown with the 50+1%, not sure how realistic it'll be to implement in our game now 

I can only presume it would have to be some sort of government back share scheme or something, like where the goverment aids the fans or provides some sort of loan that the clubs pay back over a long time with no interest. 

I presume members in German clubs pay some sort of fee per year? 

I suppose if they make it law that they can't play in the league without it then the owners don't have much choice, what is a football club worth if it is not able to make any money. 

[Tamesaint]

39 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

So the Government review on football is considering the 50+1 rule that the Germans have, which could presumably then impact our sale (or maybe speed it up so Gao gets out before it happens) no idea how the Government etc. would enforce it though and make those current owners give up 51% of the clubs they own. 

Presumably it wouldn't really help us as likely it would really maintain the status quo more than anything as the bigger clubs would have the larger finances. 

It smacks to me of people who know nothing about football introducing panic, populist  measures. Yes the German model sounds great but how can it be introduced in clubs already owned by billionaires?

Salary caps would be the best way to address the huge inequalities that exist in football- not only here but in many other European countries.  These however are difficult to enforce as rugby's problems  with Saracens demonstrate.

 

[JustinSFC]

This thread title needs to be changed to "Takeover" rather than De Grosa takeover.

He didn't even go past the exclusivity period did he?

[Wurzel]

13 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree all the clubs are in a similar boat but I don't think it's as bad as people are making out. There's still plenty of money to be made in football, all that needs to happen is serious deflation in transfer fees and new contract terms for a few years

I think the transfer fee deflation will naturally happen. No-one *has* to buy a certain player, they can always make do with what they have or turn to a cheaper option. If buyers don't have available funds the selling price will just have to drop or no sale takes place.

But even if that doesn't happen, transfer fees are just money moving around from one club to another (ignoring VAT, agents fees etc). More of a concern for clubs is high wages. Every time payday comes round that is money that not only leaves the club, it leaves football. It's in the players bank, it can't be recycled to buy or pay another player at a later date. Not sure if anything can be done about current contracts but I can't see any player being offered higher (or even as high) contracts than they're on now in the near future.  And maybe lower basics, higher performance bonuses will become the norm.

That's what really bugs me about Perez and co complaining about losing money. Their biggest expenditure is transfer fees and wages, no-one is forcing them to offer such massive contracts other than their desire/obsession to make sure they get their man and no-one else does.

 

[stevy777_x]

2 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

This thread title needs to be changed to "Takeover" rather than De Grosa takeover.

He didn't even go past the exclusivity period did he?

I was just about to suggest it rename into takeover rumors thread

[sadoldgit]

On 21/04/2021 at 12:48, Wade Garrett said:

They’ve clumsily played their whole hand and lost.  I can’t see it.

I think you are right. They have blown it big time and I can see stringent measures being put in place to make sure it can’t happen again.

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

It smacks to me of people who know nothing about football introducing panic, populist  measures. Yes the German model sounds great but how can it be introduced in clubs already owned by billionaires?

Salary caps would be the best way to address the huge inequalities that exist in football- not only here but in many other European countries.  These however are difficult to enforce as rugby's problems  with Saracens demonstrate.

 

I agree but although the UK is no longer in the EU, would the PL come under UEFA rules in the main on salary caps breaching anti competition rules? Seem to remember that discussion when salaries really exploded in the 2000s and that limit being cited. The orthodoxy at the time was that markets should adjust if salaries overheated but then football operates in a differential environment to the real commercial world where you have restructures, VR etc. Footballer contracts are a different thing legally, credit to the PFA I guess (grudgingly) for standing up for their members when the rest of society’s workforce is subject to market forces.

The TV deals is what stops PL clubs going bust trying to correct overall salary benchmarks. Banning agents is something I’ve wanted to see for ages and which could be done. Have a solicitor that specialises in football present but the super agents are driving the Neymar/Haaland demands that have pushed the biggest clubs so far into the red. Pandemic has worsened but Real and Barca have been in trouble for some time. Plus the big Spanish clubs elect presidents from the members and each makes crazier promises that the last. Promising sustainability doesn’t get you votes.

 

[Wurzel]

1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

I agree but although the UK is no longer in the EU, would the PL come under UEFA rules in the main on salary caps breaching anti competition rules? Seem to remember that discussion when salaries really exploded in the 2000s and that limit being cited. The orthodoxy at the time was that markets should adjust if salaries overheated but then football operates in a differential environment to the real commercial world where you have restructures, VR etc. Footballer contracts are a different thing legally, credit to the PFA I guess (grudgingly) for standing up for their members when the rest of society’s workforce is subject to market forces.

The TV deals is what stops PL clubs going bust trying to correct overall salary benchmarks. Banning agents is something I’ve wanted to see for ages and which could be done. Have a solicitor that specialises in football present but the super agents are driving the Neymar/Haaland demands that have pushed the biggest clubs so far into the red. Pandemic has worsened but Real and Barca have been in trouble for some time. Plus the big Spanish clubs elect presidents from the members and each makes crazier promises that the last. Promising sustainability doesn’t get you votes.

 

Re wage caps I'm no lawyer but I reckon there's a grey area between employment law and these are the rules if you want to participate in our competition. I.E.  No restriction on whatever a club wants to offer Messi for his employment, but if club wants to participate in the PL then they can not pay a player a wage of more the £x per annum. Or maybe a Fantasy League style limit per team, choose Messi and 10 donkeys of field 11 JWPs. Maybe restraint of trade?

Re the agents driving up prices/wages for Neymar/Haaland. Realistically, whether we like it or not there's currently probably 12-15 clubs that could even consider buying such players. If they are capable of getting together behind the scenes and (almost) launching a breakaway league, surely it's not beyond them to make a collective "let's stop these players/agents taking the piss and all offer sensible wages" type gentleman's agreement. Or would that be a cartel?  Guess trouble with that there will always be one (Probably Real Madrid or Juventus) that would break the agreement (overtly or covertly) and there we're back to where wer are now.

[EBS1980]

The CEO of Spotify tweeted to buy out KSE. If only we had wealthy fans who would offer to do the same!

 

[Dusic]

Given how long these deals take to actually complete it seems very unlikely that we will have new ownership in place in time for them to make any difference this summer, and probably not in the remainder of 2021.

Shame.

[Saint Billy]

19 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Given how long these deals take to actually complete it seems very unlikely that we will have new ownership in place in time for them to make any difference this summer, and probably not in the remainder of 2021.

Shame.

I struggle to believe that anyone of any substance is interested in buying saints. Let's face it, we aren't exactly an attractive proposition at the moment. 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint Billy said:

I struggle to believe that anyone of any substance is interested in buying saints. Let's face it, we aren't exactly an attractive proposition at the moment. 

Finally! No one (in there right minds) wants to buy us why would they?