Premier League To Support EFL Clubs

[Paulwantsapint81]

Apparently the government are trying to get PL to support EFL clubs.

Apart from it being 28 years to late think it’s essential that money is distributed better to lower leagues

Always wanted Eastleigh to get promoted so we could get a tie in & loan kids to them in exchange for experience 

 

[Saint86]

If it means that portsmouth are in debt to Saints I am in two minds. On the one hand, hilarious! On the other hand... they won't pay it back. 😑

Edited 27 September, 2020 by Saint86

[S-Clarke]

Do we have any money to even contribute to this?

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Do we have any money to even contribute to this?

Lets just send Guido Carrillo recorded delivery.

[OldNick]

Its ridiculous, its like asking M&S sending some help to the corner shop

[Alanh]

21 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Its ridiculous, its like asking M&S sending some help to the corner shop

Only if you chose to think about things in incredibly simplistic terms.  The league pyramid in interconnected by promotion relegation and cup competitions which theoretically mean any team has a chance of playing any other.  It's absolutly right that clubs which can't have paying customers at the moment are supported in some way and redistribution of the incredible weath of the Premier League is the best way that football can help itself at the moment.  Hopefully other initiatives like PPV of lower league matches will also be implemented to help prop up finances until crowds can come back.

[BARCELONASAINT]

I may well be thinking of this to simplistically and i'm sure there will be those out there ready to correct me......but outside the big top 6 clubs are the rest of the Premiership clubs really in a position to financially help out? Our expenses with wages and the fees we pay for transfers not to mention what we still actually owe in structured payments probably means even with TV money we are only just surviving without fee paying fans. Realistically if fans are not allowed back into stadiums this season it will not just be lower league sides going to the wall???

[John D]

They are asking for £250m from Govt and/PL.

Simply put that would mean Saints donating £12.5m if each club gave an equal amount.

 

Whilst it may be the right thing to do I'm not sure Saints can afford it given we borrowed £70m not so long ago. Would certainly impact who we sign in this window. 

[S-Clarke]

29 minutes ago, John D said:

They are asking for £250m from Govt and/PL.

Simply put that would mean Saints donating £12.5m if each club gave an equal amount.

 

Whilst it may be the right thing to do I'm not sure Saints can afford it given we borrowed £70m not so long ago. Would certainly impact who we sign in this window. 

This is where your owner steps up to the plate and provides that injection, so it doesn't deter/harm the club he owns. I totally agree with supporting the lower leagues, but that outlay without help from the owner is going to harm what we can do as a club.

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

This is where your owner steps up to the plate and provides that injection, so it doesn't deter/harm the club he owns. I totally agree with supporting the lower leagues, but that outlay without help from the owner is going to harm what we can do as a club.

I agree but where it will fall down is that it will be argued within the PL chairs that it should be sliding scale eg the CL clubs pay more and lowest turnover the least. Every club will have a narrative as to why they have already spent that money. Ultimately the medium sized clubs will have a majority. 

[steve green]

Silly stuff really, I note a certain micky mouse south coast team have joined in the cries for support from the likes of us. But not from their 'billionaire' owner apparently. No doubt they've been giving oodles of gate money dosh over the last couple of years to local causes, and not wasting it trying to buy their way up the greasy football pole.

 

Similar to the recent Richard Branson example selective support may be ok, but look out for clever buggers playing the system.

[alehouseboys]

8 hours ago, steve green said:

Silly stuff really, I note a certain micky mouse south coast team have joined in the cries for support from the likes of us. But not from their 'billionaire' owner apparently. No doubt they've been giving oodles of gate money dosh over the last couple of years to local causes, and not wasting it trying to buy their way up the greasy football pole.

 

Similar to the recent Richard Branson example selective support may be ok, but look out for clever buggers playing the system.

There's been an obscene amount of money sloshing around in the PL for too long, it's not unreasonable to expect them to help out the lower leagues in their hour of need. This will no doubt come tough for many PL clubs at this time with no fans attending (and little prospect for the foreseeable future), they've still got contracts and extortionate wages to pay to overpaid players to contend with, it's the bread-and-butter staff that will suffer. But if they can find a way to make the obscenely wealthy Big-6 pay more then I'm all for it.

Anyways, a certain little third division club on a small island 17 miles east need not apply, they've already had too many handouts and fleeced us taxpayers for their wrongdoings in recent years.

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, steve green said:

Silly stuff really, I note a certain micky mouse south coast team have joined in the cries for support from the likes of us. But not from their 'billionaire' owner apparently. No doubt they've been giving oodles of gate money dosh over the last couple of years to local causes, and not wasting it trying to buy their way up the greasy football pole.

 

Similar to the recent Richard Branson example selective support may be ok, but look out for clever buggers playing the system.

Just like furlough and the emergency loans.
 

On the one hand I feel more money should trickle down but on the other it would probably just lead to hyper inflation in those leagues, unless there were strict rules on salary caps, transfer budgets etc. Longer term there must be a better way, but right now I don’t want to see a single club fold, even Pompey. The thing to remember is the PL does still have a strong revenue stream, the lower leagues have almost nothing.

[rooney]

Perhaps all this will cause the Premier League to wake up and not pay these  stupid wages to over rated players. If they all took a 50% pay cut the smaller clubs would be saved and still the P/L players would earn more than most of us would ever dream of. It is about time they took a stand with future contracts. 

[Chocolate Box]

3 hours ago, rooney said:

Perhaps all this will cause the Premier League to wake up and not pay these  stupid wages to over rated players. If they all took a 50% pay cut the smaller clubs would be saved and still the P/L players would earn more than most of us would ever dream of. It is about time they took a stand with future contracts. 

Spot on

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fuck em. 
 

There’s way too many professional clubs in this country as it is. No other country has as many. All this pony about “the pyramid “, German & Spain seem to get by without Micky Mouse clubs from one horse towns, having a professional club. The third and fourth division should be regionalised and part time, as should the National League, or whatever it’s called now. If 50 odd lower league clubs went part time, I doubt it would make a scrap of difference to English football or the health of the national team. I read that there’s league 2 players getting over 50k a year for clubs on gates of less than 5k. It’s not sustainable, Covid or no COVID. Why should we bail out The Skates or Sunderland just because they pissed their premier league money up the wall. For sustainable businesses there’s  Government schemes to help with temporary Covid issues, but bailing out badly run clubs is not down to bigger clubs. 

Edited 30 September, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck em. 
 

There’s way too many professional clubs in this country as it is. No other country has as many. All this pony about “the pyramid “, German & Spain seem to get by without Micky Mouse clubs from one horse towns, having a professional club. The third and fourth division should be regionalised and part time, as should the National League, or whatever it’s called now. If 50 odd lower league clubs went part time, I doubt it would make a scrap of difference to English football or the health of the national team. I read that there’s league 2 players getting over 50k a year for clubs on gates of less than 5k. It’s not sustainable, Covid or no COVID. Why should we bail out The Skates or Sunderland just because they pissed their premier league money up the wall. For sustainable businesses there’s  Government schemes to help with temporary Covid issues, but bailing out badly run clubs is not down to bigger clubs. 

There maybe some "badly run clubs" out there, but in these circumstances ,completely losing your income is beyond anyone's control. Talking of pissing your money up the wall, there for the grace of God (Marcus) go us., we could easily have ended up in the situation.  I do believe the whole of football top down should be forced to be sustainable based on sustainability.

[OldNick]

On 29/09/2020 at 12:59, Alanh said:

Only if you chose to think about things in incredibly simplistic terms.  The league pyramid in interconnected by promotion relegation and cup competitions which theoretically mean any team has a chance of playing any other.  It's absolutly right that clubs which can't have paying customers at the moment are supported in some way and redistribution of the incredible weath of the Premier League is the best way that football can help itself at the moment.  Hopefully other initiatives like PPV of lower league matches will also be implemented to help prop up finances until crowds can come back.

Simplistic lol. Where were your posts calling to bail out small clubs when Bury, Chester went to the wall or Macclesfield. No club came to our help when we were hours from extinction.

A lot of clubs are run by people who manage the club badly. They are businesses and so they have to sink or swim, us paying say £5mmeans that is less for us tospend to grow our own club.

As for incredible wealth, I dont see it at Saints as we have to sell to buy, so there isnt much swilling about to help 

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 hours ago, Toussaint said:

There maybe some "badly run clubs" out there, but in these circumstances ,completely losing your income is beyond anyone's control. Talking of pissing your money up the wall, there for the grace of God (Marcus) go us., we could easily have ended up in the situation.  I do believe the whole of football top down should be forced to be sustainable based on sustainability.

But we didn’t piss our money against the wall. We invested in decent training facilities, academy and a new ground. This made us attractive to an investor, which meant we were able to return to the elite. 
 

Market forces dictate what’s sustainable and what’s not.  why should Manchester Utd give up anymore of their TV money, revenue from match days   and their millions that their brand earns, so that small provincial towns that attract 2-3k can stay full time. And don’t give me any old pony about football not existing if the lower clubs weren’t there. 

The top teams already subside the saints & Palaces of this world (via the  tv money  that they drive)  if they had their income cut by more to do so for the Rochdale, Eastleigh & Exeter’s of the world,  a super league would be here quicker than you could say sustainability. You’d then have about  85 odd clubs scratching around for a share of pitiful crumbs left after the big clubs had hovered up their share. 
 

 

Edited 30 September, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[skintsaint]

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmm money for poor football.

So going by this, the average highest earner in the bottom pro league gets about 100k per year.....madness for the standard of football offered.

[Alanh]

17 hours ago, OldNick said:

Simplistic lol. Where were your posts calling to bail out small clubs when Bury, Chester went to the wall or Macclesfield. No club came to our help when we were hours from extinction.

A lot of clubs are run by people who manage the club badly. They are businesses and so they have to sink or swim, us paying say £5mmeans that is less for us tospend to grow our own club.

As for incredible wealth, I dont see it at Saints as we have to sell to buy, so there isnt much swilling about to help 

Some clubs will always occasionally get into financial difficulty becuase of bad management decisions.  The situation now is completely different.  All lower league teams have lost their main revenue stream due to circumstances outside their control and many (most) are in desperate need of help to prevent them folding. In relative terms the big money in the game is in the PL so asking them to help out in combination with the Govt in these exceptional circumstances seems like a reasonable request.

If you can't see incredible wealth in the PL then you are completely out of touch.  To illustrate - a typical League 2 club works on an annual budget £2M.  The claimed average wage of a PL player is £250K a month. 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Alanh said:

Some clubs will always occasionally get into financial difficulty becuase of bad management decisions.  The situation now is completely different.  All lower league teams have lost their main revenue stream due to circumstances outside their control and many (most) are in desperate need of help to prevent them folding. In relative terms the big money in the game is in the PL so asking them to help out in combination with the Govt in these exceptional circumstances seems like a reasonable request.

If you can't see incredible wealth in the PL then you are completely out of touch.  To illustrate - a typical League 2 club works on an annual budget £2M.  The claimed average wage of a PL player is £250K a month. 

The wealth is not in clubs like ours, its in the hands of players and agents. If we were so flush we wouldnt be wallowing around waiting for sales before buying. Take millions out of the pot and thats less for us to improve.

Again, when we were in trouble there was no help and sadly that is the way. It is a business and whilst clubs pay lip service to the community they are there to make a profit. Ive been watching Saints from the late 60's and at no time have we ever been flush nough to give any funds away. 

[Alanh]

21 minutes ago, OldNick said:

The wealth is not in clubs like ours, its in the hands of players and agents. If we were so flush we wouldnt be wallowing around waiting for sales before buying. Take millions out of the pot and thats less for us to improve.

Again, when we were in trouble there was no help and sadly that is the way. It is a business and whilst clubs pay lip service to the community they are there to make a profit. Ive been watching Saints from the late 60's and at no time have we ever been flush nough to give any funds away. 

If I may say so politely, your view seems very narrow and focussed on Saints and your concern over what money we may or may not have to spend.  Put yourself in the shoes of fans of lower league clubs who are just as passionate about their teams as you are about Saints.  Wouldn't you be desperate to find some help out of the COVID situation with a club to support?  Perhaps you might hope that the PL could agree to divert £5M of the £120M it gives to each PL team each season to help support the budgets League 1 and 2 clubs who currently have next to no income.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Alanh said:

To illustrate - a typical League 2 club works on an annual budget £2M.  

What’s % of turnover is spent on wages? 

[steve green]

Cheeky buggers those blue fish, in the Poopy News recently-

17th August( Mark Catlin) "Why Salary Cap Is Bad For Football" as he rails against the unfairness  of L1 & 2. voting for a cap.

29th August( Catlin and Pompey MP S.Morgan) "For EFL clubs like Portsmouth FC, it is becoming an increasingly untenable position to be expected to continue operating without further government support".

 

Any financial support, wherever it comes from, should be carefully targeted.

[Alanh]

25 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s % of turnover is spent on wages? 

Based on the recently introduced Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) 60 per cent of a club's turnover in League One can be spent on players' wages. In League Two it is 55 per cent.

Club owners can inject equity (not loans) to top up the turnover and be able to increase wages.  More analysis here if you are interested.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Martin Samual hits nail on head.

 

In 2018, Peter Lim was described by Forbes as a billionaire. He owns 40 per cent of Salford City. Peter Swann, who owns Scunthorpe, has estimated wealth in the region of £400m. Michael Eisner at Portsmouth is another billionaire, while Marcus Evans of Ipswich is not far short. 

And these are just a sprinkling of the owners outside the Championship. Not representative of all, but not wholly unrepresentative either. 

As for inside the Championship, the new consortium that owns Barnsley has a collective wealth of approximately £7bn, while the Coates family own Stoke, and Bet365, where chief executive Denise Coates has paid herself £588m over the last two years. Stephen Lansdown, owner of Bristol City, is another in the billionaire bracket, as is Lakshmi Mittal at Queens Park Rangers. 

Operating at more than 10 times the estimated worth of Mike Garlick at Burnley would be the owners of Birmingham, Cardiff, Derby, Nottingham Forest and Preston — and maybe Huddersfield, too. So it is not as simple as pointing to a pyramid, and saying Garlick's club has to cut costs, to help out Lim at Salford. 

The Premier League has a pyramid, too, and those at the base of it, over by the corners, are much closer to the Championship clubs than those at the apex. They fear going short and empowering hungry rivals who will take their place. They resent the pressure being applied from below over curtailed seasons and relegation. 

Why should they help richer owners who would swap places in a heartbeat? Brentford collected £27.7m from Aston Villa for Ollie Watkins last month. Do they need a bail-out? Norwich, boosted by parachute payments, fought off Barcelona to keep Max Aarons. They can't be needing further Premier League largesse, surely?

In fact, while recognising the moral imperative, it is easy to see why the Premier League clubs look after number one: so they don't end up back in the Championship, needing a bail-out.

 

[hypochondriac]

I still think we could assist league one and below. Not many of them are stinking rich.