Saints in the England Squad

[danjosaint]

Yet Tomori who is on verge of winning serie A and is highly lauded by Baresi doesn't get a sniff

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I did not mention him.

seeing as he is the number 1 CB in the team it seems...He is not real quality. He is far from quality in any aspect.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Yet Tomori who is on verge of winning serie A and is highly lauded by Baresi doesn't get a sniff

exactly.  He (with Abraham) have been really good this season.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

seeing as he is the number 1 CB in the team it seems...He is not real quality. He is far from quality in any aspect.

James, Alexander-Arnold and Stones are all regulars for 3 of the best teams in the world.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

Trent, as a defender, especially 1 on 1 defending, is bang average. 

This is an old take, Trent has improved dramatically defensively and has actually been pretty good for the last couple of seasons. He also is the most creative fullback the world has seen in decades.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

James, Alexander-Arnold and Stones are all regulars for 3 of the best teams in the world.

only 2 of those will play for england at any one time.

Shaw is alright, Chilwell is decent.  Maguire is pure filth, but no chance of him being dropped in any way shape or form.  That is probably why Southgate is largely defensive nearly all of the time. 

Edited 30 March, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

only 2 of those will play for england at any one time.

Shaw is alright, Chilwell is decent.  Maguire is pure filth, but no chance of him being dropped in any way shape or form

I think Shaw is more than alright, after last euros he was being talked about as the best lb in the world. He and Maguire have been shite for united but so has their entire side, for England they are both very good players. Saying Maguire is "pure filth" is a wildly hyperbolic way to describe one of the euro 2020 team of the tournament. 

Edited 30 March, 2022 by TWar

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think Shaw is more than alright, after last euros he was being talked about as the best lb in the world. He and Maguire have been shite for united but so has there entire side, for England they are both very good players. Saying Maguire is "pure filth" is a wildly hyperbolic way to describe one of the euro 2020 team of the tournament. 

Thing is, when there is talk about 'best in the world' it is in the English echo chamber. 

I could not care less if he (Maguire) was in the Euro team of the tournament, right now his form is absolutely atrocious.  Dele Alli was good once, should he start?

Edited 30 March, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Dman]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Thing is, when there is talk about 'best in the world' it is in the English echo chamber.  I could not care less if he was in the Euro team of the tournament, right now his form is absolutely atrocious.  Dele Alli was good once, should he start?

I tell you who was one of our players of the tournament and in fact voted player of the year and SHOULD start… Kalvin Phillips. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Dman said:

I tell you who was one of our players of the tournament and in fact voted player of the year and SHOULD start… Kalvin Phillips. 

Assuming he gets back to full fitness (why wouldn't he), he will start IMO - an excellent player, who Leeds will do well to hold on to

[TWar]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Thing is, when there is talk about 'best in the world' it is in the English echo chamber. 

I could not care less if he (Maguire) was in the Euro team of the tournament, right now his form is absolutely atrocious.  Dele Alli was good once, should he start?

It's one bad season. Maguire is clearly still very good and proved that last euros.

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is probably why Southgate is largely defensive nearly all of the time. 

He isn't.

And even if that were true, England's form since the start of 2021 has been exceptional. So it is clearly working/effective.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, TWar said:

It's one bad season. Maguire is clearly still very good and proved that last euros.

A season is a decent amount of time.  In your opinion, how long can his very bad form/performances go on for, before his place is under threat?

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

I tell you who was one of our players of the tournament and in fact voted player of the year and SHOULD start… Kalvin Phillips. 

OK...

Matt Targett was Villa's player of the season last year. I don't care particularly about such internal votes, people don't objectively value those they personally know very well.

This is another proof of that, you think Phillips was better than Rice, Sterling, Shaw, Maguire, Walker last euros? Don't think so, not for me.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by TWar

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

A season is a decent amount of time.  In your opinion, how long can his very bad form/performances go on for, before his place is under threat?

His place will be under threat when he stops performing for England, club form seems to be pretty irrelevant to Southgate as proved by continued faith in Pickford and Mings.

If it was up to me I'd say everyone gets one, two seasons I'd worry.

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He isn't.

And even if that were true, England's form since the start of 2021 has been exceptional. So it is clearly working/effective.

Imagine how well we’d be doing if Southgate didn’t continue to make ‘notable mistakes’. Crazyyyyy….

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

Imagine how well we’d be doing if Southgate didn’t continue to make ‘notable mistakes’. Crazyyyyy….

You think he hasn't made a single mistake?

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

His place will be under threat when he stops performing for England, club form seems to be pretty irrelevant to Southgate as proved by continued faith in Pickford and Mings.

If it was up to me I'd say everyone gets one, two seasons I'd worry.

This argument completely contradicts you wanting Phillips dropped. 
 

Fwiw, I’d have both of them starting. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

His place will be under threat when he stops performing for England, club form seems to be pretty irrelevant to Southgate as proved by continued faith in Pickford and Mings.

If it was up to me I'd say everyone gets one, two seasons I'd worry.

I hope you are right, as I believe the world cup is our best chance for decades in winning.

We are on form, we have a great squad, we have some big games before it, and the tournament is in our winter/mid season.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

This argument completely contradicts you wanting Phillips dropped. 
 

Fwiw, I’d have both of them starting. 

Not really, as I think Phillips was fine for England but got bummed to high heaven for putting in a couple of crunching tackles and tactical fouls. He was mostly an absolute void for our momentum in a way JWP wouldn't be.

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

You think he hasn't made a single mistake?

His in game management is pretty poor.

But those notible mistakes do not include picking Pickford and Phillips and not picking Trent (as you suggested) who’ve both been brilliant every time they’ve put on an England shirt. 

[TWar]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

I hope you are right, as I believe the world cup is our best chance for decades in winning.

We are on form, we have a great squad, we have some big games before it, and the tournament is in our winter/mid season.

I genuinely think we are favourites. Or atleast second after France. Kane sterling foden grealish and saka is the best attacking options in the world bar none. Our midfield if properly assembled is top 3, defence is top 3 or 4.

I think it might be coming home. Then again knock out football is very luck based so we could shit the bed, who knows.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Not really, as I think Phillips was fine for England but got bummed to high heaven for putting in a couple of crunching tackles and tactical fouls. He was mostly an absolute void for our momentum in a way JWP wouldn't be.

If I remember rightly, Phillips much like Broja, you had it in for before the summer started. 
 

Nothing he could do, even voted best England player of 2021, could or would change your opinion. 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

His in game management is pretty poor.

But those notible mistakes do not include picking Pickford and Phillips and not picking Trent (as you suggested) who’ve both been brilliant every time they’ve put on an England shirt. 

Well this is the difference between us, I don't think Phillips has been brilliant, I think if he played for saints and performed like he did in the euros people would accuse him of passing backwards and sideways too much like they do about JWP who is objectively more progressive by a mile.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

If I remember rightly, Phillips much like Broja, you had it in for before the summer started. 
 

Nothing he could do, even voted best England player of 2021, could or would change your opinion. 

I don't "have it in" for him. He's a very good player, he's just not as good as JWP. You think it's an insult because you still think of JWP as worse than Connor Gallagher. 

[egg]

Sadly I can't see JWP making the Euro's squad. Phillips will return to fitness and offers more a DM imo, Gallagher has shown himself to be a more complete box to box player imo, and Mount has more as an attacking player. Rice and Bellingham are certainties, and as much as Henderson gets criticism, he has bags of experience at the top level. If either of those don't make it for any reason then I think JWP has a chance, but otherwise I think he'll miss out again.

KWP on the other hand should be there for me, based on his quality and versatility.   I fear Southgate will prefer the others over him though.

[Turkish]

45 minutes ago, TWar said:

Trent, Walker, Shaw, James not of any real quality? OK then. Maguire and Stones are of a very good quality, just not best in the world level, but our fullbacks are that level. Rice is up near that level too. I think you are underrating the defence personally. 

When i see real quality i mean top level quality. They are all competent players but none outstanding, as i said before none get into previous England teams and the centre backs dont even make the squad. Go on you you like about your flippant "well we wont be playing old England squads" but the dip in quality of player is obvious to anyone who knows anything about football. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't "have it in" for him. He's a very good player, he's just not as good as JWP. You think it's an insult because you still think of JWP as worse than Connor Gallagher. 

All healthy opinions TWar, and we all see players differently. My view is largely aligned with DMan, but neither of us are wrong - it's all subjective.

[trousers]

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

When i see real quality i mean top level quality. They are all competent players but none outstanding, as i said before none get into previous England teams and the centre backs dont even make the squad. Go on you you like about your flippant "well we wont be playing old England squads" but the dip in quality of player is obvious to anyone who knows anything about football. 

I have to say, I consider Trent and James to be the best and maybe 4th best RBs in world football.

I think saying Trent is competent but not outstanding really discredits your "anyone who knows anything about football" line. Widely regarded as the world's best RB.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by TWar

[Turkish]

Just now, TWar said:

I have to say, I consider Trent and James to be the best and maybe 4th best RBs in world football.

I think Trent is competent but not outstanding really discredits your "anyone who knows anything about football" line. Widely regarded as the world's best RB.

Widely regard by whom? Defensively he's average, he's very overated, i saw him desribed as the best passer in English football recently which is laughable. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I have to say, I consider Trent and James to be the best and maybe 4th best RBs in world football.

I think saying Trent is competent but not outstanding really discredits your "anyone who knows anything about football" line. Widely regarded as the world's best RB.

TAA is up there, but personally I think Hakimi and Cancelo are better. On a good day, Trippier too. 

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

Sadly I can't see JWP making the Euro's squad. Phillips will return to fitness and offers more a DM imo, Gallagher has shown himself to be a more complete box to box player imo, and Mount has more as an attacking player. Rice and Bellingham are certainties, and as much as Henderson gets criticism, he has bags of experience at the top level. If either of those don't make it for any reason then I think JWP has a chance, but otherwise I think he'll miss out again.

KWP on the other hand should be there for me, based on his quality and versatility.   I fear Southgate will prefer the others over him though.

This.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Widely regard by whom? Defensively he's average, he's very overated, i saw him desribed as the best passer in English football recently which is laughable. 

Tell you what, Google "best right back in the world" and see how long it takes to find someone who doesn't have him as #1.

Alternatively check out his Balon D'or nominations over the last few years compared to all other rightbacks.

Or if you don't like opinions just look at his output. Goals, assists, clean sheets. The most involved player in a Liverpool team that won the CL and PL back to back. I'm sure you'll get there.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

TAA is up there, but personally I think Hakimi and Cancelo are better. On a good day, Trippier too. 

Hakimi is a good argument probably second for me. Not sure about Cancelo as I prefer Walker there for City and Cancelo in the lb role. Trippier, not for me. He's a fantastic and dramatically underrated player no doubt, and its cool to see him recognised here, but he isn't in the conversation for me maybe gets in the top 10 just about.

Alphonso Davis, James, Walker and Carvajal make up the other contenders for me. Definitely Trent top though imo. And saying he is competent but not outstanding is definitely pretty laughable.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Tell you what, Google "best right back in the world" and see how long it takes to find someone who doesn't have him as #1.

Alternatively check out his Balon D'or nominations over the last few years compared to all other rightbacks.

Or if you don't like opinions just look at his output. Goals, assists, clean sheets. The most involved player in a Liverpool team that won the CL and PL back to back. I'm sure you'll get there.

His clean sheets for Liverpool are largely due to the quality of VVD and the midfield shielding the back 4. Put him in a lesser team and he'd struggle defensively. James is a better defender, ditto Walker, and a few other English RB's. His attacking prowess is aided by having Salah in front of him, and the midfield structure to essentially play as a midfielder. The England set up is different and for me he's good for England but not great - a point Southgate seemingly shares.   

[Turkish]

Just now, egg said:

His clean sheets for Liverpool are largely due to the quality of VVD and the midfield shielding the back 4. Put him in a lesser team and he'd struggle defensively. James is a better defender, ditto Walker, and a few other English RB's. His attacking prowess is aided by having Salah in front of him, and the midfield structure to essentially play as a midfielder. The England set up is different and for me he's good for England but not great - a point Southgate seemingly shares.   

Exactly my point, which i said early, defensively he's suspect. Personally i think he's very overrated and if he wasn't in a team as good as Liverpools he'd find it a lot harder. Maybe we should talk to TW in a language he understands such as this link. Best iin the world, WALOB.

Liverpool star Trent Alexander-Arnold's defensive stats show he is miles behind England right-back rivals (thesun.co.uk)

[TWar]

Just now, egg said:

His clean sheets for Liverpool are largely due to the quality of VVD and the midfield shielding the back 4. Put him in a lesser team and he'd struggle defensively. James is a better defender, ditto Walker, and a few other English RB's. His attacking prowess is aided by having Salah in front of him, and the midfield structure to essentially play as a midfielder. The England set up is different and for me he's good for England but not great - a point Southgate seemingly shares.   

He's in a good defense, for sure, but so are all the other players listed. Also statistically more of Trents chances go to Mane and more of Robertsons go to Salah as they mostly hit passes across the field. Not super relevant just interesting.

I think again all the fullbacks also work with top forwards, although Salah opening up space does help.

His issue for England is our CBs are too slow to allow him to get in the positions he wants to and to adequately cover. Always wondered if Walker could do a job at CB in a two as he does in a three with City but never seen it tested and I doubt Southgate is the one to implement it.

In the future White and Tomori will be the pairing imo and their relative pace will unlock TAA and Shaw massively.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Exactly my point, which i said early, defensively he's suspect. Personally i think he's very overrated and if he wasn't in a team as good as Liverpools he'd find it a lot harder. Maybe we should talk to TW in a language he understands such as this link. Best iin the world, WALOB.

Liverpool star Trent Alexander-Arnold's defensive stats show he is miles behind England right-back rivals (thesun.co.uk)

All "ratings" no actual stats, no context, the sort of thing you'd expect from a shit rag like the sun snipping athletic quotes out of context (from an article that calls him a world beater for Liverpool in the title!) and putting a sensational headline on it. Also, why does it not surprise me you are a sun reader?

Edited 30 March, 2022 by TWar

[Turkish]

Just now, TWar said:

All "ratings" no actual stats, no context, the sort of thing you'd expect from a shit rag like the sun snipping athletic quotes out of context (from an article that calls him a world beater for Liverpool in the title!) and putting a sensational headline on it. Also, why does it not surprise me you are a sun reader?

Im not a sun reader, i google something and it was the first thing that came up. Anyway, i've got work to do and cant be arsed to carry this on. I tell you what sunshine, you might not know much about football but you could fucking bore for England.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Im not a sun reader, i google something and it was the first thing that came up. Anyway, i've got work to do and cant be arsed to carry this on. I tell you what sunshine, you might not know much about football but you could fucking bore for England.

Maybe you should become a sun reader, between the low quality analysis and casual xenophobia I think you'd be a big fan.

[OttawaSaint]

31 minutes ago, TWar said:

Alphonso Davis, James, Walker and Carvajal make up the other contenders for me. Definitely Trent top though imo. And saying he is competent but not outstanding is definitely pretty laughable.

Alphonso Davies is a left back...

Edited 30 March, 2022 by OttawaSaint

[TWar]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Alphonso Davies is a left back...

Quite right, must have misremembered.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Quite right, must have misremembered.

Bizarre how you could say with such confidence that someone is the best or one of in the world for a certain position, but not actually know where they play 😂

You’ve literally just read on the athletic or something that he’s a good player and formed your opinion that way, haven’t you. 

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Bizarre how you could say with such confidence that someone is the best or one of in the world for a certain position, but not actually know where they play 😂

You’ve literally just read on the athletic or something that he’s a good player and formed your opinion that way, haven’t you. 

I don't watch the German league very often as its pretty uncompetitive but last few times I watched bayern in the CL I thought, hey this fullback is great. Just forgot what side he played on. Nobodies perfect.

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't watch the German league very often as its pretty uncompetitive but last few times I watched bayern in the CL I thought, hey this fullback is great. Just forgot what side he played on. Nobodies perfect.

Next time you cant work out your left from your rights put your hands flat on a surface with your thumbs out, the one that makes the L shape is left. Hope that helps in future.

 

 

[TWar]

Just now, Turkish said:

Next time you cant work out your left from your rights put your hands flat on a surface with your thumbs out, the one that makes the L shape is left. Hope that helps in future.

 

 

Very helpful, thank you

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Bizarre how you could say with such confidence that someone is the best or one of in the world for a certain position, but not actually know where they play 😂

You’ve literally just read on the athletic or something that he’s a good player and formed your opinion that way, haven’t you. 

Confidently claiming a player is one of the best in the world in his postion, based on hardly seeing him play and when he did couldn't work out what postion he way playing. This is an absolute belter

. 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Next time you cant work out your left from your rights put your hands flat on a surface with your thumbs out, the one that makes the L shape is left. Hope that helps in future.

 

 

Uncanny. I’d never heard of this method of telling left and right in my life, and in the last two days I’ve heard it twice. Spooky.

What happens if you turn your hands palm side up though? Hmmmm?

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Uncanny. I’d never heard of this method of telling left and right in my life, and in the last two days I’ve heard it twice. Spooky.

What happens if you turn your hands palm side up though? Hmmmm?

It's how my son learnt his lefts and rights at about 4 years old, it really helps him when he's playing football now when the coach asks him to play left back or left midfield. Always good to know who is playing where even in U9s football.

As for turning the palm upside down, can only think repeatedly doing that is a short cut to arthritis. 

Edited 30 March, 2022 by Turkish