Saints in the England Squad

[TWar]

39 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Confidently claiming a player is one of the best in the world in his postion, based on hardly seeing him play and when he did couldn't work out what postion he way playing. This is an absolute belter

. 

I believe it was the bible that said "let he who is without minor errors throw the first cringy reaction gif"

Words to live by.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, TWar said:

I believe it was the bible that said "let he who is without minor errors throw the first cringy reaction gif"

Words to live by.

True. It also said

beware of false prophets, who come to you disguised as football experts, but are really not knowing their right backs from their left backs, You will recognise them from their over use of stats, spreadsheets and graphs. 

[TWar]

Just now, Turkish said:

True. It also said

beware of false prophets, who come to you disguised as football experts, but are really not knowing their right backs from their left backs, You will recognise them from their over use of stats, spreadsheets and graphs. 

"Those who misremember a left back as a right back should be stoned to death, for there is no greater crime than making such an error offhand when posting a list of multiple players on a football forum" is another classic.

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, TWar said:

"Those who misremember a left back as a right back should be stoned to death, for there is no greater crime than making such an error offhand when posting a list of multiple players on a football forum" is another classic.

trust in Turkish with your whole heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he himself will set your path straight.

Edited 30 March, 2022 by Turkish

[kyle04]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

trust in Turkish with your whole heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he himself will set your path straight.

It amazes me how some topics seem to evolve into Monty Python-esque surrealism, you.re all fucking mad I'm sure of it !

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

It amazes me how some topics seem to evolve into Monty Python-esque surrealism, you.re all fucking mad I'm sure of it !

International windows do that to the brain. We'll be back to normal after getting beaten by Leeds I'm sure!

[OttawaSaint]

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Uncanny. I’d never heard of this method of telling left and right in my life, and in the last two days I’ve heard it twice. Spooky.

 

The situation you are describing is called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon (and no TWar, they don't play in the German League...).

Edited 30 March, 2022 by OttawaSaint

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

The situation you are describing is called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon (and no TWar, they don't play in the German League...).

one of the best numbers 10s in the world IMO. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, kyle04 said:

It amazes me how some topics seem to evolve into Monty Python-esque surrealism, you.re all fucking mad I'm sure of it !

I reckon there is potential here for a mongboard version of gogglebox 

[nta786]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/12576746/world-cup-2022-our-writers-pick-their-23-man-england-squad-for-qatar
 

I’ve basically skim read this but it seems like only 2 reporters in this would take JWP to the WC, the majority wouldn’t.

I think in a 30man squad he would get in, in a 23 man squad I’d have to say he would fall short for me too unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say that.

However, there are plenty of minutes to play for - if he leads us to a top 10 finish and a few more contributions there is no reason why he wouldn’t make the next few squads and cement a spot over Kalvin/Connor Gallagher

I think Rice, Mount, Henderson, Bellingham will be nailed for who they play for. 

[tajjuk]

7 minutes ago, nta786 said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/12576746/world-cup-2022-our-writers-pick-their-23-man-england-squad-for-qatar
 

I’ve basically skim read this but it seems like only 2 reporters in this would take JWP to the WC, the majority wouldn’t.

I think in a 30man squad he would get in, in a 23 man squad I’d have to say he would fall short for me too unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say that.

However, there are plenty of minutes to play for - if he leads us to a top 10 finish and a few more contributions there is no reason why he wouldn’t make the next few squads and cement a spot over Kalvin/Connor Gallagher

I think Rice, Mount, Henderson, Bellingham will be nailed for who they play for. 

One of them makes another good point about JWP though, one of two regular penalty takers for their clubs amongst the possible players, along with obviously Kane. 

I mean honestly in terms of what you would want from a squad player for a tournament he ticks a lot of boxes -

- Is almost always fit and has excellent work rate.

- Is versatile having played multiple midfield roles, right back and right mid.  

- Takes penalties

- Offers something different to others in the squad with wold class set pieces.

- Is a leader, being our captain. 

Plus looking at him as a pure midfielder, does anyone really think his levels of passing, defensive contribution, interceptions, work rate, goal threat etc. are really any real level below what Rice, Phillips, Henderson offer? Not imo, he has an excellent range of passing, and his work rate, interceptions, ground covered etc. have consistently been up there amongst the best in the league. And none other than Pep Guardiola reckons he is the best free kick take in the world (and the stats over the last 5 years back this up, no one who has taken a decent amount of free kicks scores or hits the target anywhere near as often as he does). 

[Toussaint]

16 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

The situation you are describing is called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon (and no TWar, they don't play in the German League...).

I loved their “Autobahn” song

[Nordic Saint]

19 hours ago, Turkish said:

Next time you cant work out your left from your rights put your hands flat on a surface with your thumbs out, the one that makes the L shape is left. Hope that helps in future.

 

 

I should imagine that if you were the type of person who got confused over left and right, you'd get even more confused over palms up or down, in which case there is a 50% chance you'd make an L with your right hand.

Edited 31 March, 2022 by Nordic Saint

[Saint Mikey]

59 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

One of them makes another good point about JWP though, one of two regular penalty takers for their clubs amongst the possible players, along with obviously Kane. 

I mean honestly in terms of what you would want from a squad player for a tournament he ticks a lot of boxes -

- Is almost always fit and has excellent work rate.

- Is versatile having played multiple midfield roles, right back and right mid.  

- Takes penalties

- Offers something different to others in the squad with wold class set pieces.

- Is a leader, being our captain. 

Plus looking at him as a pure midfielder, does anyone really think his levels of passing, defensive contribution, interceptions, work rate, goal threat etc. are really any real level below what Rice, Phillips, Henderson offer? Not imo, he has an excellent range of passing, and his work rate, interceptions, ground covered etc. have consistently been up there amongst the best in the league. And none other than Pep Guardiola reckons he is the best free kick take in the world (and the stats over the last 5 years back this up, no one who has taken a decent amount of free kicks scores or hits the target anywhere near as often as he does). 

I agree with most of your points, but I never feel that confident when he steps up to take pens - maybe it's because he has missed a couple. It's not like when Le Tiss, Beatts or Ricky were about. As soon as the decision was given, you'd be confident it was a goal.

[Saint86]

On 29/03/2022 at 23:37, TWar said:

JWP Rice Mount is Englands best midfield when playing defensively and Bellingham, Rice, Mount when we need to attack more. JWP should be on the plane over the likes of Phillips and Henderson comfortably as should Bellingham.

I would personally Play rice, JWP, and Bellingham in a midfield three and let the opposition deal with it. Bags of energy, drive, and defensive steel without being overly defensive. If england want to play a pressing game that can recycle the ball and feed the big man / tricky wingers - then that would be a good engine room.

In front of Rice, JWP, Bellingham you'd have Grealish, Kane, sterling. Would be a tasty side.

But it all depends on Southgate's style of play. I think it was Egg above who was saying that JWP might just miss out and i am inclined to agree sadly. I suspect he'd get a place if he was at a bigger club though.

As for KWP, i think he should be in the squad based on his versatility and all round game. Think he offers a tremendous amount and we're very lucky to have him at saints.

Weakest area of the team remains Central defence. No great picks there and all of them are much of a muchness. For wing backs/full backs we really do have an embarrassment of riches.

Would have Watkins in the squad as a No.2 to Kane.

Edited 31 March, 2022 by Saint86

[TWar]

21 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I would personally Play rice, JWP, and Bellingham in a midfield three and let the opposition deal with it. Bags of energy, drive, and defensive steel without being overly defensive. If england want to play a pressing game that can recycle the ball and feed the big man / tricky wingers - then that would be a good engine room.

In front of Rice, JWP, Bellingham you'd have Grealish, Kane, sterling. Would be a tasty side.

But it all depends on Southgate's style of play. I think it was Egg above who was saying that JWP might just miss out and i am inclined to agree sadly. I suspect he'd get a place if he was at a bigger club though.

As for KWP, i think he should be in the squad based on his versatility and all round game. Think he offers a tremendous amount and we're very lucky to have him at saints.

Weakest area of the team remains Central defence. No great picks there and all of them are much of a muchness. For wing backs/full backs we really do have an embarrassment of riches.

Would have Watkins in the squad as a No.2 to Kane.

I agree with most of this. Foden and Mount might edge out Grealish and Bellingham but there really isn't much in it. If he gets fit I think Calvert-Lewin should be Kanes back up but he will need to get fit and find his form again.

[Dman]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

I agree with most of this. Foden and Mount might edge out Grealish and Bellingham but there really isn't much in it. If he gets fit I think Calvert-Lewin should be Kanes back up but he will need to get fit and find his form again.

One of the best left backs in the world for me. 

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

One of the best left backs in the world for me. 

We still on this? Is misremembering a leftback as a rightback a particularly big error? Not as egregious as predicting us to finish bottom I would say...

[trousers]

Ralph a tad hacked off with England (U21s)...

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/20040885.not-good---ralph-reveals-surprise-tinos-england-involvement-amid-message/

"

RALPH Hasenhuttl admitted he was “not happy” to see Tino Livramento start twice for England under-21 during the international break, suggesting: “The message before was a different one.”

"

Edited 2 April, 2022 by trousers

[Dman]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Ralph a tad hacked off with England (U21s)...

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/20040885.not-good---ralph-reveals-surprise-tinos-england-involvement-amid-message/

He might have a point if he then didn’t proceed in playing him 90 minutes again today. 
 

Ralph is a fine one to talk, he pretty much ran the kid into the ground at the start of the season. 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

He might have a point if he then didn’t proceed in playing him 90 minutes again today. 
 

Ralph is a fine one to talk, he pretty much ran the kid into the ground at the start of the season. 

Yeah, slightly strange from Ralph. A perfectly good full back option in the bench in Perraud but Livra played and played the full 90.

[trousers]

[Lee On Solent Saint]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

Feel a bit sorry for KWP. 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

10 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Feel a bit sorry for KWP. 

Agreed, I guess the thought process is that he's been in a training camp already, he won't surpass Walker, TAA or James anytime soon, and when fit Chilwell and Shaw are the preference at left back, so get someone different in for this run (James Justin) to see how he works in the squad. Still, KWP as a left back based on performances this season should be in the squad.

[nta786]

Right-backs: Trent, James, Justin, Trippier, Walker

I assume that James Justin/Trippier will be the squad left backs. 
A shame no KWP but that would be down to our poor form I think.

[davefizzy14]

Pleased to see Prowsey in the squad ofcourse but how is KWP not in the squad seriously! He deserves to be in as he can play both sides and has been great this season. Fraser should be in too in my opinion. 

[cloggy saint]

Agreed that KWP deserves a shot but Forster, seriously?

[Jimmy_D]

JWP seems established now? The PL Player of the Season nomination probably means Southgate almost feels obliged to include him in the squad. He obviously offers something to England that no other player does as well.

KWP is unlucky. He did well during England's games, but his position has a few players that are already established and Southgate does tend to show a bit of loyalty to players. That combined with Saints poor finish to the season probably did for his chances. He probably needs a poor run of form from one of the established players if he's to get a realistic chance of keeping an England spot.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Feel a bit sorry for KWP. 

Ditto 

[warsash saint]

JWP over Maddison?? Hmmmm

[nta786]

10 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

JWP over Maddison?? Hmmmm

Different type of players - Maddison is competing more with Foden, Mount, Bellingham, Grealish as an attacking number 10 in a midfield 3, and also at least 3 of the 4 I have mentioned can also play on the wing too in an attacking role. 

I do think JWP only made it though because there is no Jordan Henderson.

[Saint Garrett]

I think KWP can feel hard done by, but at the same time, he's been part of a defence that has let in goals for fun this season, and there are loads of other options, not a surprise. 

Thats a 27 man squad, I wonder which ones would get cut if this was the World Cup squad of 23 players.

Depending on system...you'd expect it to be something like the below:  

GK x 3
CB's x 4
FB x 4
CMs x 4
AMs/Wingers x 5
ST x 3

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, davefizzy14 said:

Pleased to see Prowsey in the squad ofcourse but how is KWP not in the squad seriously! He deserves to be in as he can play both sides and has been great this season. Fraser should be in too in my opinion. 

He won't be anywhere near now that Ramsdale is back.

You could argue Henderson is ahead of him too if he gets regular game time. I quite like the young kid at Stoke (Bursik) and Etienne Green has a call up to the U21's now. So I think Frasers last call up was more of a cheerio to international football.

[saint1977]

3 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

Pleased to see Prowsey in the squad ofcourse but how is KWP not in the squad seriously! He deserves to be in as he can play both sides and has been great this season. Fraser should be in too in my opinion. 

KWP is unlucky but his own lazy team mates take the blame there for downing tools for 3 months and leaving KWP, JWP and Fraser to do all of the work. He deserves team mates with a better work ethic, level of quality and professionalism like his own.

 

Edited 24 May, 2022 by saint1977

[ErwinK1961]

[Kenilworthy]

5 hours ago, nta786 said:

Right-backs: Trent, James, Justin, Trippier, Walker

I assume that James Justin/Trippier will be the squad left backs. 
A shame no KWP but that would be down to our poor form I think.

KWP has been undermined by Ralph. How could he be picked by England when he is apparently not Saint's first choice right back? Would not be surprised if he was looking for a move

[S-Clarke]

39 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

KWP has been undermined by Ralph. How could he be picked by England when he is apparently not Saint's first choice right back? Would not be surprised if he was looking for a move

Huh?

He got picked for England when he was actually playing left back for us. Playing left back and right back adds another dimension to his game and that's probably what brought on his call up in the first place. 

A couple of the full backs on that list are ones who can play either side - Justin, Trippier etc. So the fact KWP has shown he can play both sides and given that opportunity by Ralph has actually added another string to his bow and if anything increased his chances of future call ups.