Saints 'B' Team

[Scummer]

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

Obviously Simeu is with the first team at the moment, which would have had a negative effect on the B teams defensive capability.

They've been letting in plenty with him in the team as well, if he gets in the first team we're in big trouble

[trousers]

Whenever I look at a B Team starting 11 it always seems to be almost completely different to the previous match's team.

Whilst I'm not trying to defend the team management here, do we know if the constant chopping and changing is an enforced situation or is it out of choice? 

It can't help if a team is constantly chopping and changing like it appears to. No time to gel etc. 

Would be interesting to see how our frequency of line up changes compares to other u23s teams. 

Edited 24 September, 2021 by trousers

[Scummer]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

Whenever I look at a B Team starting 11 it always seems to be almost completely different to the previous match's team.

Whilst I'm not trying to defend the team management here, do we know if the constant chopping and changing is an enforced situation or is it out of choice? 

It can't help if a team is constantly chopping and changing like it appears to. No time to gel etc. 

Would be interesting to see how our frequency of line up changes compares to other u23s teams. 

Don't know if you've seen any of the articles recently talking about Brentford's B team (they don't have an academy and pick up a lot of rejects from other academies and non league). My nephew was there for 6 months last season so I paid them quite a bit of attention. They regularly had half a dozen trialists in their line up, don't even play in a league (just friendlies), and they are getting glowing reports. I don't think a big turnover of players is necessarily a problem, and could be looked at as a positive if players are moving up to the first team. Losing heavily every week can't be good for anyone though...

[trousers]

12 minutes ago, Scummer said:

Don't know if you've seen any of the articles recently talking about Brentford's B team (they don't have an academy and pick up a lot of rejects from other academies and non league). My nephew was there for 6 months last season so I paid them quite a bit of attention. They regularly had half a dozen trialists in their line up, don't even play in a league (just friendlies), and they are getting glowing reports. I don't think a big turnover of players is necessarily a problem, and could be looked at as a positive if players are moving up to the first team. Losing heavily every week can't be good for anyone though...

Fair enough. Was just wondering if not having a settled line-up could be a factor given its often cited as a contributor to poor form in 1st team football. 

Edited 24 September, 2021 by trousers

[Lallana's Left Peg]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Fair enough. Was just wondering if not having a settled line-up could be a factor given its often cited as a contributor to poor form in 1st team football. 

It does have an impact, but it happens to all U23 and U18 teams so isn't a difference maker.  Our coaching and talent is clearly a problem.  Don't score goals, concede too many, and play badly as well.  It's just rotten.

EDIT: I do think we have some talented players, but no more than a handful and the moment they are injured or are training with the first team the lack of depth, and lack of quality of depth, really exposes us and we're whipping boys.

Edited 24 September, 2021 by Lallana's Left Peg

[IOWSaintDaz]

Horseman has to go surely, we've been awful all season so far and with the players with potential at his disposal we should at least be on par with the oppo's, there has been no sign of any improvement at all and points to a complete lack of coaching ability.

As our academy and youth system was once the pride of this club it has since sunk to the depths of mediocraty even Jaidi coached them better

[Nordic Saint]

4 hours ago, Scummer said:

Don't know if you've seen any of the articles recently talking about Brentford's B team (they don't have an academy and pick up a lot of rejects from other academies and non league). My nephew was there for 6 months last season so I paid them quite a bit of attention. They regularly had half a dozen trialists in their line up, don't even play in a league (just friendlies), and they are getting glowing reports. I don't think a big turnover of players is necessarily a problem, and could be looked at as a positive if players are moving up to the first team. Losing heavily every week can't be good for anyone though...

There was a TV interview regarding Brentord's policy and they said it was a waste of time and money having an academy in London as the big clubs hoovered up all the talent. Even if our own academy currently appears to be a waste of money, we are doing well taking players like Livramento, Broja and Small from other clubs' academies. Maybe that is the way forward. Chelsea's academy for example is always going to have much more talent than ours.  

[Hodgey]

But playing devils advocate with that. You’d be just as well placed not bothering investing in the academy at all and have more money / time to get disillusioned youngsters from the top 6 and promise them 1st team.

We make a big thing of our top class facilities and A status, but if you can’t produce any players it’s all completely pointless (and as things stand it’s not even as if we can flog a couple to the championship for a few hundred thousand, they all end up in league 1 or below on a free).

[HarvSFC]

Looking at it regionally, us and Brighton are the only two south coast clubs playing in the Premier League's youth set-up. Brighton, however, are currently joint top of the division one alongside Man City, while we are joint bottom with Nottingham Forest and Burnley in the division below. Brighton are our nearest competition in the youth set-ups and they've leapfrogged us massively, even if we did beat them to Livramento, which I suspect came down to who could offer more first team football. I wonder what they've been doing, that we haven't. We certainly got complacent with the academy set-up, that much is clear.

[SuperSAINT]

5 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Looking at it regionally, us and Brighton are the only two south coast clubs playing in the Premier League's youth set-up. Brighton, however, are currently joint top of the division one alongside Man City, while we are joint bottom with Nottingham Forest and Burnley in the division below. Brighton are our nearest competition in the youth set-ups and they've leapfrogged us massively, even if we did beat them to Livramento, which I suspect came down to who could offer more first team football. I wonder what they've been doing, that we haven't. We certainly got complacent with the academy set-up, that much is clear.

Don’t know this, but imagine Dan Ashworth revamped recruitment & coaching.

[SuperSAINT]

Tom Leach asked Ralph about B-Team results in Part 2 of press conference.  Worth a watch.

[egg]

40 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Tom Leach asked Ralph about B-Team results in Part 2 of press conference.  Worth a watch.

Thanks. A good listen. Interesting start re everyone working hard, with his emphasis then shifting to recruitment and money. I wasn't sure if he was annoyed by the work ethic and/or coaching, or whether it was a general point about people having to work hard. Either way, he's saying our academy isn't going to be what it once was.

Edited 24 September, 2021 by egg

[Charlie Wayman]

12 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Tom Leach asked Ralph about B-Team results in Part 2 of press conference.  Worth a watch.

Thanks for the link. Ralph talks a load of Rollocks at times. The u 23's are not getting trashed by Chelsea or Man City but by West Bromich bloody Albion. Surely they have no more access to quality young players than we do.

It won't do Ralph, there's something rotten in the state of Academy! This one is on you, action not excuses.

Edited 25 September, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Master Bates]

No subs for the U18s! Wtaf?

 

 

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, Master Bates said:

No subs for the U18s! Wtaf?

 

 

[Minsk]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Thanks for the link. Ralph talks a load of Rollocks at times. The u 23's are not getting trashed by Chelsea or Man City but by West Bromich bloody Albion. Surely they have no more access to quality young players than we do.

It won't do Ralph, there's something rotten in the state of Academy! This one is on you, action not excuses.

Oh the irony of you saying someone else talks 'Rollocks'. So Ralph is solely responsible for the running of the academy now is he? 🙄

This is right up there with your statements of Salisu being too slow and Bednarek being left footed. 🤣

Last time I looked Ralph's role was 'First Team Manager'.

[Master Bates]

3 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Yeah they didn't have them up earlier, as per the pic 

[VectisSaint]

Saints were 2-0 up away to Birmingham but pegged back to 2-2 while I have been writing this. Ballard and Watts with the goals for us. Note that Simeu is playing. 

Edited 27 September, 2021 by VectisSaint

[obelisk]

Losing 2-3 now. 😬

[JRM]

Final score lost 3-2 to cement our place as laughing stock bottom of the league. Terrible. 

[Saints foreva]

The Olly Lancashire experiment is working wonders. 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

Final score lost 3-2 to cement our place as laughing stock bottom of the league. Terrible. 

Laughing stock? Do you honestly think that anyone else is interested in our u23 results?

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Saints foreva said:

The Olly Lancashire experiment is working wonders. 

In what way? He was brought in to mentor young players, not to turn the B team into a title chasing team. Is there any evidence that the mentoring is not working? Maybe you were saying this in jest, but to blame Lancashire for the complete clusterfuck that is the B team at the moment seems a tad harsh.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

Interesting comments from Oli Lancashire. 

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/southampton-academy-hasenhuttl-u23s-form-5981193

 

Reading between the lines it seems he's suggesting that there is a conflict of opinion on how the B team follow the playbook versus finding ways to win.

I can tell you from experience of coaching my lads team, getting smashed every week has a detrimental effect on player development. Even the better players lose confidence.  A player will more likely fulfil potential when confident and happy to be playing. I can imagine a lot if these players are dreading the next game. 

 

 

 

[SuperSAINT]

 
Drawing 1-1 at HT

[VectisSaint]

Finished 1-1. First point of the season, still Stoke are one of the better teams in the division. 

[SuperSAINT]

12 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Finished 1-1. First point of the season, still Stoke are one of the better teams in the division. 

2nd point  

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

2nd point  

So it is, caught out by our crap OS not updating the league table. 🙄

Edited 1 October, 2021 by VectisSaint

[Baird of the land]

Good to see a more positive result..

[SuperSAINT]

48 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Good to see a more positive result..

U18’s lost 3-0 today, but that’s logical when 3 of their best players are with the B team at the moment. 

[Master Bates]

Am I allowed to say we're 2 0 down without getting shot?

Edited 5 October, 2021 by Master Bates

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Am I allowed to say we're 2 0 down without getting shot?

Cheers. On the plus side, Smallbone is back. Interesting if this is correct and we're playing 3 at the back. 

[JRM]

3-0 down at HT, forgot this was earlier kick off, missed my chance to make a few quid backing Charlton, what odds were being offered pre match?

[Fabrice29]

19 minutes ago, JRM said:

3-0 down at HT, forgot this was earlier kick off, missed my chance to make a few quid backing Charlton, what odds were being offered pre match?

1.5 for a Charlton win. Over evens for HT/FT and Charlton -1 though.

[SuperSAINT]

So far…

 

Edited 5 October, 2021 by SuperSAINT

[Master Bates]

Olly Lancashire scores

[Master Bates]

Now 4 1

[Master Bates]

[SuperSAINT]

Think we had much more of a go in the 2nd half.

[SuperSAINT]

Watts missed a pen 2nd half.

Doyle set up the Saints goal.

[ItchenRob]

Thought Saints looked ok second half. Chauke looks a decent player to me. And if only Simeu was half as good as he seems to think he is!

[JRM]

24 minutes ago, ItchenRob said:

Thought Saints looked ok second half. Chauke looks a decent player to me. And if only Simeu was half as good as he seems to think he is!

How did Smallbone look? 

[ItchenRob]

Clearly not up to the pace of the game and not getting stuck in but looked comfortable on the ball. Subbed at half time. I guess getting minutes on the pitch is the important thing at the moment.

[JRM]

17 minutes ago, ItchenRob said:

Clearly not up to the pace of the game and not getting stuck in but looked comfortable on the ball. Subbed at half time. I guess getting minutes on the pitch is the important thing at the moment.

Did Olly Lancashire run to the away fans kissing the badge when he scored? 

[Nordic Saint]

16 hours ago, Master Bates said:

I really wish we'd withdraw our U21s from the EFL Trophy. We've not got a cat in hell's chance of winning it, we do nothing for the tournament, the heavy defeats to lower league teams are demoralising for our players and fans alike and it's only a matter of time before we get drawn against Portsmouth and, like all lower league teams do, their first team will thrash our U21s and we'll never hear the end of it.

Edited 6 October, 2021 by Nordic Saint

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

I really wish we'd withdraw our U21s from the EFL Trophy. We've not got a cat in hell's chance of winning it, we do nothing for the tournament, the heavy defeats to lower league teams are demoralising for our players and fans alike and it's only a matter of time before we get drawn against Portsmouth and, like all lower league teams do, their first team will thrash our U21s and we'll never hear the end of it.

This is daft, we should be playing more games like this, against proper opposition instead of pampered academy kids. This is actually only the second time in 3 years we lost by more than 1 goal in this competition. 

[egg]

47 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

This is daft, we should be playing more games like this, against proper opposition instead of pampered academy kids. This is actually only the second time in 3 years we lost by more than 1 goal in this competition. 

Agreed. These lads need proper competitive football, under lights on cold autumn / winter nights. Who cares if they win, they're learning their trade and are playing to develop and gain experience. 

[Nordic Saint]

Our U21s have deteriorated in the 4 years we've been in the EFL Trophy so it obviously isn't helping them at all. I don't see any players better prepared for the Premier League. As for 'who cares if they win', we all will if we get drawn against Portsmouth, which with so few teams in the southern section's group draw is inevitably going to happen.  Developing a losing mentality, like developing a winning one, can become a habit. Players go out there half expecting to lose.

Academy teams have always played their peers and it hasn't done them any harm in the past. If the coaches feel an U21 player is ready to face lower league first teams, and a lot of them clearly aren't, they can always give him a loan spell. That would be far better and more realistic preparation as the 1 or 2 U21s who might break into our first team one day will be surrounded by older players, not in a team of teenagers getting thrashed by a team of older men. That is not 'competitive football': it's just demoralising.

Edited 6 October, 2021 by Nordic Saint

[Nordic Saint]

On 28/09/2021 at 14:57, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Interesting comments from Oli Lancashire. 

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/southampton-academy-hasenhuttl-u23s-form-5981193

 

Reading between the lines it seems he's suggesting that there is a conflict of opinion on how the B team follow the playbook versus finding ways to win.

I can tell you from experience of coaching my lads team, getting smashed every week has a detrimental effect on player development. Even the better players lose confidence.  A player will more likely fulfil potential when confident and happy to be playing. I can imagine a lot if these players are dreading the next game. 

 

 

 

So true.

[The Cat]

52 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Our U21s have deteriorated in the 4 years we've been in the EFL Trophy so it obviously isn't helping them at all. I don't see any players better prepared for the Premier League. As for 'who cares if they win', we all will if we get drawn against Portsmouth, which with so few teams in the southern section's group draw is inevitably going to happen.  Developing a losing mentality, like developing a winning one, can become a habit. Players go out there half expecting to lose.

Academy teams have always played their peers and it hasn't done them any harm in the past. If the coaches feel an U21 player is ready to face lower league first teams, and a lot of them clearly aren't, they can always give him a loan spell. That would be far better and more realistic preparation as the 1 or 2 U21s who might break into our first team one day will be surrounded by older players, not in a team of teenagers getting thrashed by a team of older men. That is not 'competitive football': it's just demoralising.

I thought they kept us away from Portsmouth in the group draw on purpose, probably because of police advice. Seeing as we never qualify from the group stages it's unlikely we'll play them.