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Saints 'B' Team

SuperSAINT

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted (edited)

I wouldn’t have such a problem with this score knowing that a large number of U23s are playing for our main squad.

However, apart from Tella that is all our main U23s right?!

And they have lost 7-1 which is awful.

Taken from the Athletic:

"With this in mind, what on earth was Alan Pace, Burnley’s new owner, talking about when he made disparaging remarks about Southampton’s academy?

In an interview with The Mail On Sunday, Pace said: “Look at Southampton, we have a tremendous amount of respect for what they did with their academy. Yet over the last five years, under the current owner, they have destroyed that.

“This comes back to the different revenue streams. It cannot be based solely on the selling of players. And what has happened in the north west over the past few years is a shame… from having all these Premier League clubs, all this passion, to demoralising everyone because of bad owners.”
Looks like Burnley bloke ain’t half wrong- something has gone amiss here.

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captainchris

captainchris

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1 minute ago, nta786 said:

I wouldn’t have such a problem with this score knowing that a large number of U23s are playing for our main squad.

However, apart from Tella that is all our first team XI right?!

And they have lost 7-1 which is awful.

With this in mind, what on earth was Alan Pace, Burnley’s new owner, talking about when he made disparaging remarks about Southampton’s academy?

In an interview with The Mail On Sunday, Pace said: “Look at Southampton, we have a tremendous amount of respect for what they did with their academy. Yet over the last five years, under the current owner, they have destroyed that.

“This comes back to the different revenue streams. It cannot be based solely on the selling of players. And what has happened in the north west over the past few years is a shame… from having all these Premier League clubs, all this passion, to demoralising everyone because of bad owners.”
 

Looks like Burnley bloke ain’t half wrong- something has gone amiss here.

Recruitment for the youth and reserve teams is not connected to ‘revenue streams’ It is everything to do with coaching and selection/recruitment all of which are appalling. 

 

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Dusic

Dusic

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2 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Ralphs playbook is having the desired effect I see. What is going on throughout the club!!

The U18s and U23s have been shit for long before the playbook. These things take time and care to implement and ultimately need good players and the right coaches - I don't think we have either at these levels.

Matt Crocker has a big job on his hands, but he knows what success looks like so I have faith he will sort it out.

Edited by Dusic
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egg

egg

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8 hours ago, Master Bates said:

 

 

8 hours ago, Master Bates said:

Ewg9kJwWgAExpwg.jpeg.jpg

So no Valery, Vokins, O’Connor, Slattery, Smallbone, Chauke, Sims, Hesketh or Tella. Pretty much the whole team on loan, injured or with the first team. Because of that the B team is weak, but has to borrow u18 players who in turn are weak.
 

Absolute shambles.

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Turkish

Turkish

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9 minutes ago, egg said:

 

So no Valery, Vokins, O’Connor, Slattery, Smallbone, Chauke, Sims, Hesketh or Tella. Pretty much the whole team on loan, injured or with the first team. Because of that the B team is weak, but has to borrow u18 players who in turn are weak.
 

Absolute shambles.

More worrying is that 6 of the starting 11 have featured in the first team squad since Christmas. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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I've watched a good portion of that. The standard from us is beyond dross. Burton Albion, yes, Burton Albion, have been better on the ball than us.  Everything is poor. We can't pass, can't clear, can't make runs. We just look rushed into everything because we make a shit touch.

I have no idea what we have.

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JRM

JRM

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9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We lost to Burton albion. FT.

This group is hopeless.

It must be a great sense of embarrassment to the club for our academy teams to be performing so abjectly, they've been disappointing virtually every time I've seen them with little sign of things improving. The amount we spend on academy development compared to a club like Burton , losing to them should be a wake up call. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

That was a pretty different team to the one that played in the last round, presumably because a lot of the U18's are now in the U23's. 

Didn't watch the game myself so can't comment on the performance. 

It was pretty aimless all told. Very, very little technical ability on show. All rushed and panicked due to poor touches of the ball.

Burton looked a little bit more refined with their passing.

We did have a couple of chances, but as per our performance the finishing lacked quality and was just panicked.

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Dusic

Dusic

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33 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Got to question the coaching.

And ultimately the quality of the recruitment and players, as across the 18s and 23s the results have been shocking for 2 years, so its a multi dimensional failing.

We signed the forward Ramello Mitchell from Birmingham to quite a bit of fanfare and he has something like 3 goals in 2 years.

Dread to think how much is invested in the academy compared to a team like Burton.

Crocker is clearly making changes, and those will take time to gave an effect - but we certainly don't have a good academy at the moment, at least not in the older age groups.

JWP is 26 I think and its not since his age group that we have had a good crop really.

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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22 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Are all the academy teams working off Ralph's playbook yet? If so, its definitely not a good sign for the future 

It’s just the B-Team.  (Unless they’ve changed that in the last few months).

 

10 minutes ago, Dusic said:

And ultimately the quality of the recruitment and players, as across the 18s and 23s the results have been shocking for 2 years, so its a multi dimensional failing.

We signed the forward Ramello Mitchell from Birmingham to quite a bit of fanfare and he has something like 3 goals in 2 years.

Dread to think how much is invested in the academy compared to a team like Burton.

Crocker is clearly making changes, and those will take time to gave an effect - but we certainly don't have a good academy at the moment, at least not in the older age groups.

JWP is 26 I think and its not since his age group that we have had a good crop really.

All spot on.

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JRM

JRM

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5 minutes ago, Dusic said:

And ultimately the quality of the recruitment and players, as across the 18s and 23s the results have been shocking for 2 years, so its a multi dimensional failing.

We signed the forward Ramello Mitchell from Birmingham to quite a bit of fanfare and he has something like 3 goals in 2 years.

Dread to think how much is invested in the academy compared to a team like Burton.

Crocker is clearly making changes, and those will take time to gave an effect - but we certainly don't have a good academy at the moment, at least not in the older age groups.

JWP is 26 I think and its not since his age group that we have had a good crop really.

Yes JWP,  Callum Chambers and Luke Shaw were all together from 8 years old and all went on to play for England,  Oxlade-Chamberlain also came through a year or so earlier 

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saint1977

saint1977

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I just don’t see the point of SFC any more - this aspect of the industry is supposed to be one of its global and national USPs and deservedly knocked out of a competition where it has a proud history by a club which as others have pointed out probably spends 10% of SFC’s youth development budget if that. Well done Burton, showing their growth and hunger as a club.

Unlike the first team, the budget for the academy is very significant and it isn’t washing its face. The young players bought in to much fanfare seem to regressing badly. There appears to be a revolving door of journeymen coaches - the likes of Dodd and Paul Williams had actually played a lot of PL games and could prepare young players for its rigours. With the facilities, budget and reputation, the club should be able to attract the best coaches in that category.

Whole club reeks of decay and takeover needed to save the club urgently. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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bpsaint

bpsaint

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Probably doesn’t help that the likes of Chelsea have had their regional talent centres going for a few years now and have probably taken a few local gems that we would normally see come through our academy. Regardless of how famed our development path is it’s always going to be impossible going up against competition like that.

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The Cat

The Cat

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10 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Probably doesn’t help that the likes of Chelsea have had their regional talent centres going for a few years now and have probably taken a few local gems that we would normally see come through our academy. Regardless of how famed our development path is it’s always going to be impossible going up against competition like that.

I don't know of that many local kids who Chelsea have offered youth terms to. Most are at Saints, Pompey, Bournemouth or Brighton. Reading seem to hoover up a lot of the northern Hampshire kids. Seems to be a strong area, a lot of the Hampshire schoolboys are from up that way. 

Chelsea are probably the most active in that they scout extensively and invite a bunch of kids up to Cobham for 6 weeks at a time to have a look at them. A few kids from my son's team went but they didn't invite the best player who is now at Saints. He plays U15 & U16 for them and their results are decent, and they certainly don't get hammered like the older age groups have been this season.

It's a strange thing the whole academy business. There's some insanely good players who have been let go and are now playing JPL or Tyro which makes you stop and think about how ridiculously good you have to be to get through the system.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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3 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Probably doesn’t help that the likes of Chelsea have had their regional talent centres going for a few years now and have probably taken a few local gems that we would normally see come through our academy. Regardless of how famed our development path is it’s always going to be impossible going up against competition like that.

So how is that relevant to being worse than Burton Albion?

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bpsaint

bpsaint

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11 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

So how is that relevant to being worse than Burton Albion?

Eh? We’re talking about the talent pipeline not being as promising these days as it once was, and our reserve and youth teams suffering as a result. Other Academies getting bigger with a far wider reach these days is hugely relevant to why we may not be seeing the number of gems come through as before.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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10 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Eh? We’re talking about the talent pipeline not being as promising these days as it once was, and our reserve and youth teams suffering as a result. Other Academies getting bigger with a far wider reach these days is hugely relevant to why we may not be seeing the number of gems come through as before.

But your point about Chelsea hoovering up talent makes no sense when you consider us being worse than Burton Albion. It might well mean we will not be able to compete with Chelsea or Man City but why are Burton able to be better than us? Do you think that the top teams only take the talent from Southampton? We have a Level 4 Academy, which gives us much more freedom and ability to recruit players, I'm not sure what level BA are but I know it's not the top level like us. The Chelsea argument of course has an effect but it doesn't really mean much outside of competing against the top clubs. Out Academy is crap and has been for a few years now, we lost our way (after Georges Prost) and lived on the reputation of a few successes in a couple of key areas (left backs and CMs), when was the last time we developed a top goalkeeper, a central striker, a central defender, even a RB? My view anyway is that the whole Academy system is broken and does not work for the PL. It needs to be fundamentally changed, young players should be playing competitive football from 17/18 not floundering around in u23 leagues played at training grounds. I think it would be better to go down the B team route as in Spain and Germany. 

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spyinthesky

spyinthesky

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The goalkeeping reference is interesting.
The only 'keepers who I recollect coming through the ranks and playing more than the odd game for Saints were Bob Charles in the 1960's and Gerry Gurr in the 70's.
The club had hopes for Alan Blaney but he suffered from homesickness I think and went back to Ireland.
Overall the club's development programme is arguably in the worst state it has been in my memory.

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JRM

JRM

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I think a lot of the embarrassing results this season can also be put down to the first team squad not being as large as other clubs + injuries. 

First team now have insane 9 substitutes. We have been taking mostly u23s to fill those slots moving them out of u23 teams, plus u23 pool of players reduced with many being out on loan. 

U18s have made up the numbers in the u23 games and the cycle continues. Also correct many of the players are not good enough, but this doesn't help. 

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Dusic

Dusic

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2 hours ago, JRM said:

I think a lot of the embarrassing results this season can also be put down to the first team squad not being as large as other clubs + injuries. 

First team now have insane 9 substitutes. We have been taking mostly u23s to fill those slots moving them out of u23 teams, plus u23 pool of players reduced with many being out on loan. 

U18s have made up the numbers in the u23 games and the cycle continues. Also correct many of the players are not good enough, but this doesn't help. 

Not having that. All clubs are dealing with the same issues and if the players are going to make it in the PL they will be regulars in the U23s aged 17 and 18 anyway in the majority of cases.

Agree this season has been a challenge but its not a key factor in the awful results, and those have been happening for longer anyway.

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suewhistle

suewhistle

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The thing that disturbed in one of the reports above about the Burton game was the lack of basic skills of control. In the past my impression was that we had more of a lack of physicality or pace but the ability to control a ball was normally there. So Vokins and Valery or even Targett may have lacked positional skills or pace but they could always bring the ball under control.  In the glimpses I've seen of the under 18s there have been one or two players where I've wondered why they were on the pitch.

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Sideways Jim

Sideways Jim

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4 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

The black-box should have been looking for the next Georges Prost. 

I believe that is what Matt Crocker is doing now, our whole coaching pyramid is very poor for the standards we have set ourselves. 

 

Been overtaken by Brighton in the academy aspects now

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