Saints 1-1 Brighton - Reaction Thread

[Appy]

Adams is just a yard or so off the pace, constantly on his heels, there were two or three occasions tonight where if he was more alert he would’ve had a tap in. 

[SaintBobby]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Don't like to be critical of Ralph but he got the team selection wrong tonight. Now, it feels like all that effort to take points away at Everton and Man Utd in great displays has almost been wasted. We got three points from the three games and I would have expected at least that from tonight's game. Suddenly we are the draw specialists again.

You expected at least three points tonight? Maybe 4 or 5, but you reluctantly would have settled for three if really pushed? !

[St_Tel49]

As far as I am concerned tonight settled it. We have to buy KWP. Throw HOJ into the deal.

[Saint Pete]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm not even trying to criticise the lad, I just genuinely don't know what it is about his game that's supposed to stand out. Can anyone tell me? Is his passing supposed to be top drawer? Can he beat a man? Is he tough in the tackle? Can he finish? Because I haven't seen him stand out at anything so far. 

In fairness to Smallbone I thought he looked good when he came on at Old Trafford, looked comfortable up against good players and passed the ball well. Clearly far from the finished article though and likely to be inconsistent given his lack of experience at this level. To be honest I expected fringe players like him to have got more time on the pitch before now in this period where we knew we were safe so that Ralph could have a good look at him to decide if he thinks he can push on next season or whether we need to sign new CMs. Ralph seems to have prioritised trying to finish as high as possible though and not rested anyone from first 11 until tonight.

I don’t have answers to your questions on what his strengths are yet but he clearly needs more time - will be interesting whether he gets another chance in the Bournemouth game to see if he’s learnt from tonight. It would certainly make more sense to play him than Hojbjerg who is off in the summer, and in my opinion Romeu who we already know what he can and can‘t do. 

[OttawaSaint]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm not even trying to criticise the lad, I just genuinely don't know what it is about his game that's supposed to stand out. Can anyone tell me? Is his passing supposed to be top drawer? Can he beat a man? Is he tough in the tackle? Can he finish? Because I haven't seen him stand out at anything so far. 

Same was said on here about JWP. Maybe he just needs time to find out what role he could play. 

[OttawaSaint]

The more and more I see him I feel that Armstrong is absolutely pivotal to how we play when we play well. If we could get Redmond firing again (he needs to be more decisive), keep Ings fit and bring someone in to play alongside Ings then we could have a very formidable attack. 

Seems to be Ings +1 and that +1 auditions for that role but never seems to nail it. Maybe Adams will come good once he’s netted a few tap ins and gains in confidence but none of Long, Obafemi and Adams have really stood out this year.

[Red]

58 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

In fairness to Smallbone I thought he looked good when he came on at Old Trafford, looked comfortable up against good players and passed the ball well. Clearly far from the finished article though and likely to be inconsistent given his lack of experience at this level. To be honest I expected fringe players like him to have got more time on the pitch before now in this period where we knew we were safe so that Ralph could have a good look at him to decide if he thinks he can push on next season or whether we need to sign new CMs. Ralph seems to have prioritised trying to finish as high as possible though and not rested anyone from first 11 until tonight.

I don’t have answers to your questions on what his strengths are yet but he clearly needs more time - will be interesting whether he gets another chance in the Bournemouth game to see if he’s learnt from tonight. It would certainly make more sense to play him than Hojbjerg who is off in the summer, and in my opinion Romeu who we already know what he can and can‘t do. 

Wonder if this an instruction from on high as we need to maximise our income during the current situation (Covid, non investment from owners, failure to get rid of deadwood)? Once we were safe it was the perfect time to try out the fringe players regardless of outcome - of course you want to win every game and do well, but why not try out other players to see if they are good enough? Walker Peters is a perfect example - such an improvement on what we have already but how would you know if you don't play him?

 

[niceandfriendly]

First half worst performance in a long time, such a strange line up from Ralph. Hoj at right back was a bad idea, and Hoj generally just needs to go. We're such a worse team when he's in the side.

Vokins had a first half to forget, truly awful. Was clearly told to get forward more in the second half and he improved a little. He'll make a decent career for himself in the lower leagues. Hope we can find a good club for him and not waste anymore time pretending everyone who comes out of our academy is class.

Smallbone appeared to be playing exclusively on the wing and couldn't get involved. Not his best showing.

Obafemi's touch is dreadful and showed why he isn't a starter.

Redmond quiet again, he does blow hot and cold. We really missed Armstrong too, he's becoming vital to the way we play.

KWP changed the game when he came on. If we can get him for around £10mil he could go on to be like Bertrand for us. He's a level above anything we have at right back.

Ings, never in doubt he'd score that. Shame he passed to Adams when he was almost through again.

[Vancouver Saint]

4 hours ago, washsaint said:

As others have said, game of 2 halves.

We always struggle with Vestegaard and Hojberg in the side.  Both are far too slow of thought (both slow our possession game down with their dawdling and give the opposition chance to regroup) and Hojberg's distribution is beyond awful.  Cannot wait for him to leave.

Vokins had a good PL debut, Adams is not going to make it: dreadful player and KWP changed the game although his crossing is poor.

Unlucky not to win but clearly shows the need for at least 3 new players (striker, CM, CB) in addition to KWP.  With that we could have a good season next time round.

Agree we look ponderous when Hoj and Vestergard are in the team...both slow and default mode is step back and sideways or backwards pass...slow down rather than speed up...consequence is we never get the speed or momentum to exploit gaps in defence because they have time to get men behind the ball and regroup. Contrast that with Walker-Peters who was brilliant today, stepping up into play, beating his man, creating space for others by running forward and drawing defenders...Redmond is good at this, Armstrong too...Ings always a handful...Djenepo (what happened to him?) another forward-looking player.

Think you're a little harsh about Adams tonight. He was better than Obafemi. Very unlucky to have two goal-bound shots blocked either of which would have made him the match-winner and hero instead of the villain he's been cast as. He is woefully short of confidence still, despite the great goal against City...but there is something about him that makes me think he will find his scoring boots for us. He is a unit and can create chances for others. He looks to me like he'd be better losing a few pounds and swapping a bit of strength for speed.

[skintsaint]

Obafemi just looks too big/bulky to me, seems an unnatural physique for a footballer. 

Called 1-1 in the build up thread, thats two games on the trot I called the result...missed out on some money if a betting man.

Start our strongest team against the bucket rattlers and we should win by at least 2.

p.s such a shit goal to concede 😕

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, niceandfriendly said:

 

Vokins had a first half to forget, truly awful. Was clearly told to get forward more in the second half and he improved a little. He'll make a decent career for himself in the lower leagues. Hope we can find a good club for him and not waste anymore time pretending everyone who comes out of our academy is class.

Just bizarre to write him off after 2 professional appearances.

Edited 17 July, 2020 by Saint_clark

[Nolan]

I felt very comfortable with Vokin's second half performance. As long as Bertie gets another 2 year deal lets bring him on as an understudy.

We can concentrate spending on CB's and RB.

 

[Fan The Flames]

The frequency of games and the travelling to the NE twice in a week has made it hard. Before hand I would have given up a win against Brighton at home in return for not losing at Man U and Everton.

[benjii]

6 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

The more and more I see him I feel that Armstrong is absolutely pivotal to how we play when we play well. If we could get Redmond firing again (he needs to be more decisive), keep Ings fit and bring someone in to play alongside Ings then we could have a very formidable attack. 

Seems to be Ings +1 and that +1 auditions for that role but never seems to nail it. Maybe Adams will come good once he’s netted a few tap ins and gains in confidence but none of Long, Obafemi and Adams have really stood out this year.

This is a problem in home games, certainly. Less of an issue away.

I think what we really need is a Boufal-type to play off Ings in home games against teams we "should beat".

If Djenepo was fit then perhaps he or Redmond could play that role for a bit.

[benjii]

I didn't see the game - how did Vokins do? Do we need to sign an LB so we aren't completely reliant on Bertrand or is he a valid contender?

[alehouseboys]

6 minutes ago, benjii said:

I didn't see the game - how did Vokins do? Do we need to sign an LB so we aren't completely reliant on Bertrand or is he a valid contender?

Improved as the game went on, as his career will with games. They gave Ingsy MOM, nothing wrong with that, you could probably just give it to him before kick-off as you know he'll do enough each game to deserve it, but I'd have given it to KWP. He had a massive influence on that, he's got great feet, another who's just going to get better.

Poor first half all round, good second.

[benjii]

Cheers. I guess it's a question of funds, in terms of what we do in that position. I'd rather sign a quality player at CB and CM than two average ones plus an LB cover. 

[SaintBitterne]

I really like Adams until he gets into the box and then panics or dosen't move.

Agree with the praise for KWP, he's excellent on the ball and with a lot of confidence to dribble past players. With the shot aside Vestergaard put in one of the worst performances I've seen in a saints shirt. Truly horrific. If Brendan wants him , get rid asap.

Thought Hoj dramatically improved when moved to cm and suited the style of game in the second half. We can't be a fast paced counter attacking side with two slowest players in the prem in the team.

We badly miss an injection of trickery and skill from boufal or djenepo at like the 70th minute mark and it is quite unfortunate to have them both out.

Play like that in the second half and we will win most games. On to Bournemouth!

[Shroppie]

9 hours ago, Micky said:

Aaah well chance to climb league missed

One place.

[Pierre]

The critism of Hojberg is unjustified and should be aimed at Ralph. What a bizarre choice for right- back. Surely we have better options if he wanted to test KWP?

Even JWP would have made more sense

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, Pierre said:

The critism of Hojberg is unjustified and should be aimed at Ralph. What a bizarre choice for right- back. Surely we have better options if he wanted to test KWP?

Even JWP would have made more sense

The difference between Hojbjerg and JWP playing out of position, is that JWP knuckles down and does the best he possibly can, whereas Hojbjerg attitude last night appeared to be: "pah... This isn't my position... I'm going to have a mini strop about it"

Yes, it was a seemingly bizarre decision to play Hojbjerg there, but to then not give it your best shot is entirely down to the player's attitude and lack of professionalism...

Imho of course

Edited 17 July, 2020 by trousers

[Convict Colony]

I wonder if there is a stat out there for blocked shots per player.

I dont know if its me but Adams seems to have sooooooooo many shots blocked, I am not sure if thats him being too slow or unlucky.

Calling @Matthew Le God to help.

[Shroppie]

9 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Don't like to be critical of Ralph but he got the team selection wrong tonight. Now, it feels like all that effort to take points away at Everton and Man Utd in great displays has almost been wasted. We got three points from the three games and I would have expected at least that from tonight's game. Suddenly we are the draw specialists again.

I think you're missing the point that this we have played our strongest team in three tough games in quick succession, the last only three days before. They didn't get back from Manchester until after 2am.

And there's another game, which I know the club and team are keen to win, only 60 hours after this one. I thought some tiredness did show tonight in the players who have played all the games - Redmond, Bednarek and Romeu. JWP seems to able to run for ever but Ings looked shattered at the end.

Ralph made it clear before the game that recovery of each player had to be assessed and he obviously decided some needed longer. It wasn't just a case of the wrong team selection.

Hopefully back to full strength on Sunday but there must be a chance that those who've played every minute recently may need a rest for the Bournemouth game. I'm guessing that Ings, JWP, Redmond and Bednarek will want to start but it's pushing things. 

I agree the team looked like disjointed strangers in the first half last night but that is to be expected with so many changes and did demonstrate that we have squad members who can step up, not that many together.

[wrinklysaint]

Romeu was booked last night for the tackle on Mason Greenwood not last nights tackle. Football is about opinions, when Hojbjerg arrived he looked good and then after a really good game Puel rotated him and I don't thinks he has ever come back from that.

[LGTL]

Without Ings we’d probably be 6 points adrift, if not more. This is actually a big big summer for us. I feel like we have the potential to really push on and consistently compete for the top 10 under Ralph. He needs to be backed. 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Appy said:

People moaning about Hojbjerg, but he’s still a far better player for our team than Romeu. He was so clumsy with that early challenge. 

I thought that he won the ball cleanly and fairly and didn’t deserve a yellow card.

But I’m old fashioned.

[S-Clarke]

34 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Without Ings we’d probably be 6 points adrift, if not more. This is actually a big big summer for us. I feel like we have the potential to really push on and consistently compete for the top 10 under Ralph. He needs to be backed. 

This is what I'm hoping, we've got a terrific coach here and it would be such a waste if he's not backed - again. I'm not sure where the backing is coming from though, we have an owner who doesn't give two hoots about us.

Edited 17 July, 2020 by S-Clarke

[100%Red&White]

42 minutes ago, wrinklysaint said:

Romeu was booked last night for the tackle on Mason Greenwood not last nights tackle.

You could be right.

This is certainly not a criticism of Romeu, but I'm amazed he's never been sent off before. I love his tenacity, expected for a player in his position but in today's game when it's so easy to see red for challenges that were perfectly acceptable a few years back, it's fairly remarkable. And I admire his ability to remain on the pitch for 90 minutes after being booked so early in a game.

Probably should have won that last night for the chances created second half but as we had a half-apiece I'll accept a draw.

Let's hope the officials aren't still gunning for Romeu at the weekend.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

The frequency of games and the travelling to the NE twice in a week has made it hard. Before hand I would have given up a win against Brighton at home in return for not losing at Man U and Everton.

Liverpool and Manchester are in Lancashire, not Tyne & Wear.

Edited 17 July, 2020 by badgerx16

[Shroppie]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I thought that he won the ball cleanly and fairly and didn’t deserve a yellow card.

But I’m old fashioned.

I think you're absolutely right. I wasn't particularly impressed with the ref who, btw, was in charge for our 0-9. I just got the feeling he'd read Red Cafe whinges about us being a dirty team (especially Romeu) and made up his mind to make his mark early.

It wasn't even a foul by Romeu, let alone a card, but it did us a favour in the end. Ralph pulled Romeu off (possibly because he had a yellow and fearing the ref's intentions) but that brought KWP on, which changed the game.

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Ralph pulled Romeu off

ooer

[alehouseboys]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Liverpool and Manchester are in Lancashire, not Tyne & Wear.

And to be picky, neither are also officially in Lancashire....

Edited 17 July, 2020 by alehouseboys

[hasper57saint]

Very poor indeed in the first half and was concerned we would suffer a rout with our less than mediocre defence. However, the changes at half time clearly demonstrates how thin our squad is. Vokins picked up in the second half and someone must have told him at half time to stop cutting in and go outside .. it worked. PEH can go. Everton or Spurs and if it’s Spurs let’s have KWP as part of the deal. That lad was a revelation when he came on. Obefimi just doesn’t seem suited at this level. Armstong also improved our situation. Without trying to sound arrogant but we could have won this. Should we beat Bompey on Sunday it will be icing on the cake. Ings outstanding again but I see Dunk is being MOM in some circles. Roll on Sunday and the opportunity to wave farewell to the bucket shakers (ungrateful bastards) 

COYS

[Shroppie]

1 hour ago, wrinklysaint said:

Romeu was booked last night for the tackle on Mason Greenwood.

Exactly what I thought. Balancing the books.

[Shroppie]

7 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

ooer

😂😂😂

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

I felt very comfortable with Vokin's second half performance. As long as Bertie gets another 2 year deal lets bring him on as an understudy.

We can concentrate spending on CB's and RB.

 

Yes, I can see a player in Vokins; at this stage Smallbone doesn't inspire the same confidence - I can't see the early attributes or the potential in him yet.

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

And to be picky, neither are also officially in Lancashire....

When you live in Lancashire, and Lancashire Cricket Club play there, they are. The Metropolitan areas are purely for local government administration.

[Hairlesshero]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Harsh on Vokins, I thought he held himself really well and gave us genuine balance down the left. Looks to have a bit of pace about him and certainly didn't look out of place, it was just a shame he had Vesterturd next to him.

I agree 100% 

[Singapore Saint]

11 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm not even trying to criticise the lad, I just genuinely don't know what it is about his game that's supposed to stand out. Can anyone tell me? Is his passing supposed to be top drawer? Can he beat a man? Is he tough in the tackle? Can he finish? Because I haven't seen him stand out at anything so far. 

He crosses well.

[Manuel]

Vestergaard's shot was heading right for the top corner and should have been the winner, if it wasn't for that pesky keeper getting a hand to it. 

He pulled off some great saves.  

[Charlie Wayman]

Having done so well recently it does seem a pity to let the season peter out in this rather anonymous way.  While arguably there might be a case to rest players and "give the kids a chance" surely by now Ralph and his team must know if the fringe players are good enough or not without having to put them on the pitch at the expense of team cohesion and "automatism".

Make five changes to a winning starting team with high flying morale and this is what you get. Without Bertie too this is what you get. We have also found out once again just how thin our squad is.

Having said that we still created enough chances and domination in the 3rd and 4th quarters 😉 to have won easily. Adams and Obafemi are all too clearly second-rate strikers who lack the craft and skills needed to be successful at this level. Redmond too is becoming a huge disappointment through ever growing indecision and his inability to find the target. Any injury to Ings and we are well and truly up the creek with only Armstrong left to paddle. 

[Saint-Reece]

11 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I'm not even trying to criticise the lad, I just genuinely don't know what it is about his game that's supposed to stand out. Can anyone tell me? Is his passing supposed to be top drawer? Can he beat a man? Is he tough in the tackle? Can he finish? Because I haven't seen him stand out at anything so far. 

I am not 100% sure what his best position is (definitely not on the wing!) but again, not sure what kind of midfielder he is supposed to be, the same was thought of JWP a couple of seasons ago to be fair, think it's a very similar situation. 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

This is what I'm hoping, we've got a terrific coach here and it would be such a waste if he's not backed - again. I'm not sure where the backing is coming from though, we have an owner who doesn't give two hoots about us.

This - can’t back anyone if we have no money and the owner won’t put anything in.

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, hasper57saint said:

Very poor indeed in the first half and was concerned we would suffer a rout with our less than mediocre defence. However, the changes at half time clearly demonstrates how thin our squad is. Vokins picked up in the second half and someone must have told him at half time to stop cutting in and go outside .. it worked. PEH can go. Everton or Spurs and if it’s Spurs let’s have KWP as part of the deal. That lad was a revelation when he came on. Obefimi just doesn’t seem suited at this level. Armstong also improved our situation. Without trying to sound arrogant but we could have won this. Should we beat Bompey on Sunday it will be icing on the cake. Ings outstanding again but I see Dunk is being MOM in some circles. Roll on Sunday and the opportunity to wave farewell to the bucket shakers (ungrateful bastards) 

COYS

Vokins was very nervous in the first half and seemed content to play only safe sideways and backwards passes, a recent hallmark of our young academy players from Ward-Prowse onwards that needs to be stamped out in their development.

Clearly Ralph was in his ear at HT and told him that this was HIS chance;  be bold and adventurous, get forward and express himself and stop worrying about making a mistake which he seems to taken on board very well. 

 

I gave KWP MotM he was untouchable. Are Spurs really willing to let him go?

[Toadhall Saint]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Having done so well recently it does seem a pity to let the season peter out in this rather anonymous way.  While arguably there might be a case to rest players and "give the kids a chance" surely by now Ralph and his team must know if the fringe players are good enough or not without having to put them on the pitch at the expense of team cohesion and "automatism".

Make five changes to a winning starting team with high flying morale and this is what you get. Without Bertie too this is what you get. We have also found out once again just how thin our squad is.

Having said that we still created enough chances and domination in the 3rd and 4th quarters 😉 to have won easily. Adams and Obafemi are all too clearly second-rate strikers who lack the craft and skills needed to be successful at this level. Redmond too is becoming a huge disappointment through ever growing indecision and his inability to find the target. Any injury to Ings and we are well and truly up the creek with only Armstrong left to paddle. 

What about redmonds first time pass/assist fit Ings? Clearly not decisive or showing any ability 🥴

[Batman]

woeful 1st half, much better 2nd half and probably should have won had we got 1 more player beyond Ings who looks like scoring

McCarthy - not much wrong

KwP - Sign this lad up, be incredibly disappointing not to. Made a massive difference when he came on. 

Bed - alright

Vestergaard - woeful 1st half. Decent 2nd half - amplified with that effort on goal (what a save that was)

Vokins - Prem debut and thought he was decent.  I think he will do well for us

JwP - Crap 1st half, better 2nd half.  Annoying his corners hit the 1st man too many times

Romeu - Wrecking ball-Rom.  Can't tackle like that in the prem.  

Hoj - As a player, I cannot stand him.  Woeful 1st half (not his position, granted), crap 2nd half.  That effort on goal was dire and he tries to pass across the pitch like Paul Scholes. but he is just not very good.  He may have loads of energy but not for a while have we seen a player who is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.  Stunning that we could get north of £25m.  crap crap crap crap

Smallbone - poor for someone who is highly thought of. Completely unsure what he offers.  Weak, slow and nearly gave away a goal when his man was allowed near the penalty spot unchallenged, but missed.

Armstrong - not really on long enough

Redmond - busy, decent....

Ings - just too good for us and could be relegated without him.  His work rate is amazing, brilliant touch to bring others in (set up Adams a number of times), deadly around the box and scored yet again.  Awesome player

Obafemi - I think he is a terrible player. Completely baffled what Ralph see's in him (like Valery).  Continues to offer absolutely nothing to the team shape/play.  Could be a decent sub but nothing more

Adams - woeful performance.  Just not sharp enough, scuffs chances or takes too long and too much time on his heels.  I really want him to succeed but I fear he wont (at saints).

Generally battered them 2nd half but we simply cannot keep having games where we miss so many easy chances...Adams needs to up it really

I hope Hojberg is sold. What a terrible player he is and vastly over-inflated opinion of himself.  He rarely passes forward! Even his sideways passing his woeful!

Pretty stunning that we could pocket £40m+ for Vest and Hoj. Utter utter madness

Ings my MoM, closely followed by KwP (Who I think is a very good player) and a shout to Vokins

Edited 17 July, 2020 by Batman

[Saint_clark]

24 minutes ago, Saint-Reece said:

I am not 100% sure what his best position is (definitely not on the wing!) but again, not sure what kind of midfielder he is supposed to be, the same was thought of JWP a couple of seasons ago to be fair, think it's a very similar situation. 

JWP showed a great tenacity, passing ability and set piece ability right from day one. I remember when he made his debut away to Man City first game back in the Prem at only 17 and everyone was shocked, but he kept David Silva under wraps. 

[Shroppie]

39 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Having done so well recently it does seem a pity to let the season peter out in this rather anonymous way.  While arguably there might be a case to rest players and "give the kids a chance" surely by now Ralph and his team must know if the fringe players are good enough or not without having to put them on the pitch at the expense of team cohesion and "automatism".

Make five changes to a winning starting team with high flying morale and this is what you get. Without Bertie too this is what you get. We have also found out once again just how thin our squad is.

Having said that we still created enough chances and domination in the 3rd and 4th quarters 😉 to have won easily. Adams and Obafemi are all too clearly second-rate strikers who lack the craft and skills needed to be successful at this level. Redmond too is becoming a huge disappointment through ever growing indecision and his inability to find the target. Any injury to Ings and we are well and truly up the creek with only Armstrong left to paddle. 

I think the changes were more to do with tiredness than experiment.

[Shroppie]

29 minutes ago, Batman said:

 

Romeu - Wrecking ball-Rom.  Can't tackle like that in the prem.  

 

I agree with some of what you said but the Romeu yellow card tackle was only a marginal foul. He got the ball. Never a card, but he got one thanks to Gary Neville explaining at huge length on Monday how the ref and VAR were wrong, Romeu is a dirty player who should be booked as soon as possible every game. This ref made up his mind he wouldn't make the same mistake.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Liverpool and Manchester are in Lancashire, not Tyne & Wear.

A pedant never sleeps

You are almost correct but does it change the point being made?

 

(For me the NE is Margate or Southend)