Man Utd 2-2 Saints - Reaction

[HarvSFC]

I was fully expecting the ref to blow up as soon as the clock hit 95 minutes after five minutes were added, but the clash of heads stopped play around the 90 minute mark and didn't resume until around the 93rd minute, so there wasn't any shenanigans had with the amount of injury time played out.

[Wurzel]

2 hours ago, Teddeer said:

The accidental clash of heads incident that led to a free kick being awarded to Utd was tantamount to cheating by the ref. We had the ball in an attacking position and the ref should have dropped it to one of our players in that spot. There had been an earlier accidental clash of heads when the ref stopped play and on that occasion he dropped the ball at the feet of a Utd player because they had been in possession at the time. That is double standards.

Quote

Law 8 - The start and restart of play (drop ball)

• If play is stopped inside the penalty area, the ball will be dropped for the goalkeeper
• If play is stopped outside the penalty area, the ball will be dropped for one player of the team that last touched the ball at the point of the last touch
• In all cases, all the other players (of both teams) must be at least 4m away
• If the ball touches the referee and goes into the goal, team possession changes or a promising attack starts, a drop ball is awarded to the team that last touched the ball.

Was it a free-kick or just the keeper clearing it unopposed?

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Wurzel

[Shroppie]

4 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Was it a free-kick or just the keeper clearing it unopposed?

Pretty sure it was a free kick. A dropped ball should have been given to us, not the keeper, as we were in possession when play stopped.

[Wurzel]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

Pretty sure it was a free kick. A dropped ball should have been given to us, not the keeper, as we were in possession when play stopped.

Not if it was in the area as I just clarified, it's a drop for the keeper. Definitely not a free kick though, although if the keeper is unopposed it amounts to the same thing. That rules could encourage  an unscrupulous  defender to go down holding his head in a last minute goalmouth scramble, (not suggesting that's what happened last night),

[Chez]

3 hours ago, wadesmith said:

I know Walker Peters was at fault for both goals, but he does seem to have something about him. He didn't let his head drop (which would have been easy to do) He seemed to be involved in so much of what we did last night, he's an exciting player. I'll like us to sign him..but admit he could be a bit of a loose cannon.

I think its harsh to blame him too much for the second. Martial is flying at him at that point and can go inside or out. Having come inside the CB has to help him more. I think it's Stephens that fails to close the gap and the rest is history. Everything is at such pace, so it's difficult to blame anyone, but in an ideal world Stephens would come across quicker. In that spell united and their pacey attack looked scary. We did well to keep them reasonably quiet.

 

The save from McCarthy after JWP's mistake was top draw.

 

[Saint_clark]

Good spot on the rule about incidents in the box, however...

[malcolm waldron]

This may have been covered earlier but I'm getting fed up with the Sky strategy of appointing a 'fan' to co-comment.  They should be there to analyse the game from both sides and identify what TV viewers maybe can't see.  Instead we get a lop-sided commentary culminating in Neville still banging on about a potential red card a whole three minutes (sorry - I timed it) into the second half.  That quite simply is a fan talking and not an expert summariser.  At that point i muted and synched up to 5Live where Chris Sutton was far more objective and even identified two free kicks on the edge of their penalty area that we should have had but which weren't given.  Somehow i doubt Neville did the same.

Still, a cracking match and proud of the team taking it to the opposition so well.

[saintquin]

Strange feeling about last nights result today.

Really happy after the final whistle last night but now I 'm thinking we missed out on a great chance to get all 3 points.

 

[Baird of the land]

Who got the touch to Rashford chance that seemed destined for net. Was it Bertrand, McCarthy, a bit of both?

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Not if it was in the area as I just clarified, it's a drop for the keeper. Definitely not a free kick though, although if the keeper is unopposed it amounts to the same thing. That rules could encourage  an unscrupulous  defender to go down holding his head in a last minute goalmouth scramble, (not suggesting that's what happened last night),

The way I read Law 8, is if the incident happens inside the box, which it didn't, but when the play is actually stopped the ball is some way out of the box, as was the case last night, then it would be a drop ball to the last team that touched it, ie Saints. The ref will argue that the incident happened in the box and play was stopped immediately and thus goes to the keeper. He would be wrong on both counts.

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Chez

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

This may have been covered earlier but I'm getting fed up with the Sky strategy of appointing a 'fan' to co-comment.  They should be there to analyse the game from both sides and identify what TV viewers maybe can't see.  Instead we get a lop-sided commentary culminating in Neville still banging on about a potential red card a whole three minutes (sorry - I timed it) into the second half.  That quite simply is a fan talking and not an expert summariser.  At that point i muted and synched up to 5Live where Chris Sutton was far more objective and even identified two free kicks on the edge of their penalty area that we should have had but which weren't given.  Somehow i doubt Neville did the same.

Still, a cracking match and proud of the team taking it to the opposition so well.

Agreed, but what incensed me the most was Neville repeating "he tried to do him", that is an outrageous accusation. Accusing a professional footballer of deliberately trying to break anothers leg and potentially end his career. Maybe he's thinking back to his days and Roy Keane.

[Shroppie]

20 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Not if it was in the area as I just clarified, it's a drop for the keeper. Definitely not a free kick though, although if the keeper is unopposed it amounts to the same thing. That rules could encourage  an unscrupulous  defender to go down holding his head in a last minute goalmouth scramble, (not suggesting that's what happened last night),

The ball was outside the area.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

The way I read Law 8, is if the incident happens inside the box, which it didn't, but when the play is actually stopped the ball is some way out of the box, as was the case last night, then it would be a drop ball to the last team that touched it, ie Saints. The ref will argue that the incident happened in the box and play was stopped immediately and thus goes to the keeper. He would be wrong on both counts.

This is another good point. It's where the ball is when the incident happens, not where the incident itself occurred, and we had the ball out on the wing at the time. 

[Minsk]

3 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Who got the touch to Rashford chance that seemed destined for net. Was it Bertrand, McCarthy, a bit of both?

I think it was McCarthy's foot.

[Toussaint]

6 minutes ago, saintquin said:

Strange feeling about last nights result today.

Really happy after the final whistle last night but now I 'm thinking we missed out on a great chance to get all 3 points.

 

I'm happy, we could have got all 3 points, but equally at times it looked like we were on for a drubbing.

[Wurzel]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Good spot on the rule about incidents in the box, however...

 

Fair point, in that case ignore everything I said, the ref dropped a bollock there.

[Wes Tender]

12 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Agreed, but what incensed me the most was Neville repeating "he tried to do him", that is an outrageous accusation. Accusing a professional footballer of deliberately trying to break anothers leg and potentially end his career. Maybe he's thinking back to his days and Roy Keane.

What a whiny little tosser Neville is, droning on and on about how bad Romeu's tackle was and how lucky he was still to be on the pitch. The ref should have gone to the pitch-side monitor , then he would have changed his mind, then United would have gone on a thrashed us, blah,blah, blah. But then again, this is Sky, who make their money out of millions of United plastics around the country and the World paying subscriptions to watch their favourite glory team, so it is understandable that they would employ an ex-United player as a commentator, one who can be relied upon to churn out the sort of partisan rubbish that the plastics want to hear.

[Guided Missile]

Solskjaer was a class act when he was interviewed after the game. He was fair and objective and admitted United didn't deserve 3 points...

[Shroppie]

45 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

 

Fair point, in that case ignore everything I said, the ref dropped a bollock there.

Can only assume he decided KWP fouled Williams.

[Plastic]

34 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

What a whiny little tosser Neville is, droning on and on about how bad Romeu's tackle was and how lucky he was still to be on the pitch. The ref should have gone to the pitch-side monitor , then he would have changed his mind, then United would have gone on a thrashed us, blah,blah, blah. But then again, this is Sky, who make their money out of millions of United plastics around the country and the World paying subscriptions to watch their favourite glory team, so it is understandable that they would employ an ex-United player as a commentator, one who can be relied upon to churn out the sort of partisan rubbish that the plastics want to hear.

Yep. I only saw the second half, and he spent most of his analysis time moaning about the foul and the ref not taking advantage of VAR properly. Ridiculous to have such a partisan commentator. I agree they should have an ex-pro for analysis but not one who spent his whole career playing for one of the teams on the pitch!

[the saint in winchester]

36 minutes ago, saintquin said:

Strange feeling about last nights result today.

Really happy after the final whistle last night but now I 'm thinking we missed out on a great chance to get all 3 points.

 

Thank you for that comment, now I know I'm not the only one. I had that feeling through the game and it was the comments of MLT after that crystallised it into words for me.

After their 2 goal blitz, I had expected them to tear us apart. Yet, it didn't happen; they took their foot off the gas, and seemed content to be in a winning position. Even the commentator acknowledged we were 'right back in this game', yet we seemed content to retain possession and ensure Utd didn't get more goals. Imagine if we had pushed and got that second goal during our second half domination, and then Obafemi's goal had been a winner! That stat Sky put up about Utd winning every game they had been in front at HT going back to 1851 would have been redundant.

So, I have to say I didn't think we would get anything from that game, and yet I think we could got all 3 points if we had really gone for it. We'll never know. On balance, of course, a point away at OT is a big deal.

[wadesmith]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

I think its harsh to blame him too much for the second. Martial is flying at him at that point and can go inside or out. Having come inside the CB has to help him more. I think it's Stephens that fails to close the gap and the rest is history. Everything is at such pace, so it's difficult to blame anyone, but in an ideal world Stephens would come across quicker. In that spell united and their pacey attack looked scary. We did well to keep them reasonably quiet.

 

The save from McCarthy after JWP's mistake was top draw.

 

Would you sign him?

[Pip]

58 minutes ago, Plastic said:

 I agree they should have an ex-pro for analysis but not one who spent his whole career playing for one of the teams on the pitch!

I know he played for us many years ago but I really enjoyed Alan Shearer's co-commentary the other evening.  Explained a lot of tactics and positioning very well to someone like me who only ever played the game as a kickabout.

[HarvSFC]

Carragher and Neville commentating over Liverpool and United matches has been a gripe of mine for ages. They're not impartial at all. As well as last night, Neville was saying how he could see why the ref would give the Bruno Fernandes penalty against Aston Villa and that it was clever play from Fernandes... Clever that he stood on Konsa's ankle and went down clutching his legs. Any other team does that and he calls it out as cheating.

[the saint in winchester]

I'd agree that it should be a practice that (co)commentators shouldn't have played for either side, ideally. Especially if they are one-club men, then their perspective just isn't in perspective, it's biased.

But maybe it's just the individual characteristics of Neville and Carragher that are SO excruciating.

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Plastic said:

Yep. I only saw the second half, and he spent most of his analysis time moaning about the foul and the ref not taking advantage of VAR properly. Ridiculous to have such a partisan commentator. I agree they should have an ex-pro for analysis but not one who spent his whole career playing for one of the teams on the pitch!

Still, could have been worse, we could have had the scouse git whining and moaning. In most respects Neville is reasonably objective and talks a lot of sense, the Romeu thing was an exception. He was otherwise very complimentary. Is it true though what they said that Romeu has never been red carded for us?

[Shroppie]

My final thought on the Romeu non-red-card. I wonder how the outcome might have been different if there had been 70000 aggrieved MU fans screaming at the ref?

[Kingsland Codger]

18 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Still, could have been worse, we could have had the scouse git whining and moaning. In most respects Neville is reasonably objective and talks a lot of sense, the Romeu thing was an exception. He was otherwise very complimentary. Is it true though what they said that Romeu has never been red carded for us?

Yes, no red cards for us ... nor for any of his other teams (Stuttgart, Valencia, Chelsea, Barca B)

https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=56600

[eurosaint]

Neville is articulate and clever therefore his bias is used in a pretty subtle way..

Terms like 'leg breaker' and 'VAR must look at that'  when it's against Man U and then when Stephens heel is straked by (I think it was Fernandes) he says " I think he did catch him, painful those ones" !

He underplayed every Utd foul and overplayed every Saints one, so much so that when you look at the Stats you are amazed that we had 15 against and they had 14, hardly a one sided foul count !!

It's not right that he co-commentates on Utd matches, sitting in the studio is different but taters should be neutral IMHO !

 

[East Kent Saint]

I can’t remember watching so many entertaining Saints matches on TV ever !

[Kenilworthy]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

I'd agree that it should be a practice that (co)commentators shouldn't have played for either side, ideally. Especially if they are one-club men, then their perspective just isn't in perspective, it's biased.

But maybe it's just the individual characteristics of Neville and Carragher that are SO excruciating.

It's those individuals. Alan Smith is fine even when commenting on Arsenal games.

[rallyboy]

I've come to embrace the mentions of the 9-0, it's like League One -  that's where we come from, there is pride in progress and honesty in remembering your roots.

And every time Daniel Levy or some other chairman looks at Ralph, the Leicester defeat is there niggling away in the background as a seed of doubt.....would they really risk millions of pounds on a manager with that on his CV?....it's a big risk.

So, please would commentators continue to remind other clubs how bad Ralph's ten-man team was on one rainy night in 2019.

Cheers.

👍

[SNSUN]

I’m not going to lie, I didn’t find out about the equaliser until this morning. I’m sharing an hotel room with my wife and two year old so was watching the game on a dimly lit iPad under the duvet covers so as to not wake her. (Daughter not the missus.) When the clash of heads occurred late on I switched off after a long, tiring  day in Great Yarmouth, and so imagine my surprise when I saw the result this morning! 

 

That’s the best way to draw a game... and I missed it! (Karma has already punished me, dropped the work iPad in the bath this evening.) It’s United’s fault they didn’t finish us off, instead listening to Talkshit earlier they were hammering the VAR decision. They’ll make CL but it’ll be close.

[Manuel]

There were times towards the end of the first half when I thought we were looking leggy and tired...hardly surprising the amount they've played.  So I was surprised United didn't try to kill us off in the second.  

Reckon Redmond had the most energy throughout.  I think he's the fittest, closing down and defending right to the end. 

[Chez]

5 hours ago, wadesmith said:

Would you sign him?

Good question. I am a little worried he gets caught under crosses, not too dissimilar to Cedric. To date, he has got away with that, but over a season you get found out. He may sort that out, he may not. His positioning looks a little suspect, but that might just be our frailty as a unit. We work hard, which limits our exposure, but when teams gets beyond our press we get run ragged and defenders get pulled out of shape. His positioning may also improve. I say that, but coaching can only do so much and natural ability and decision making are what they are. On the ball he has been very impressive. He looks better than Cedric. Far more balanced. I'd like to see him live before I committed and a few more games. I wonder what the price will be? No one has any money, so we should be offering buttons. Spurs don't want him or his wages. I think a deal has already been agreed to be honest.

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Chez

[wadesmith]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

Good question. I am worried he gets caught under crosses, not too dissimilar from Cedric. To date he has got away with that, but over a season you get found out. He may sort that out, he may not. His positioning looks a little suspect, but that might also improve. I say that, but coaching can only do so much and natural ability and decision making are what they are. On the ball he has impressive. He looks better than Cedric. Far more balanced. I'd like to see him live before I committed and a few more games. I wonder what the price will be? No one has any money, so we should be offering buttons. Spurs don't want him or his wages. I think a deal has already been agreed to be honest.

You maybye right. It's a tricky one. There are seemingly  some obvious flaws, but I do like the way he always seems involved in things, doesn't seem to go hiding. I will say I think he has got scapegoat potential...but I do like him. lets see what happens..but like you i'm a bit undecided.

[Chez]

30 minutes ago, Manuel said:

There were times towards the end of the first half when I thought we were looking leggy and tired...hardly surprising the amount they've played.  So I was surprised United didn't try to kill us off in the second.  

Reckon Redmond had the most energy throughout.  I think he's the fittest, closing down and defending right to the end. 

Armstrong's legs are insane. He covers an awful lot of ground, but also with a lot of bursts of pace. I really like watching him in this side. We are a totally different outfit with and without him.  Obviously we have other good players, but when he plays he brings out the best in us.

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

You maybye right. It's a tricky one. There are seemingly  some obvious flaws, but I do like the way he always seems involved in things, doesn't seem to go hiding. I will say I think he has got scapegoat potential...but I do like him. lets see what happens..but like you i'm a bit undecided.

I'm really surprised at how good he has been on the ball. He's miles better than the player I saw at Spurs. It's like he has just said fuck it, I gonna go for it and its working. He's certainly looked committed, chucking himself in front of things. That feels like an upgrade on Cedric.  Can he cover left back. If so, then its certain he will be here next season.

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Chez

[saintwbu]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

I'm really surprised at how good he has been on the ball. He's miles better than the player I saw at Spurs. It's like he has just said fuck it, I gonna go for it and its working. He's certainly looked committed, chucking himself in front of things. That feels like an upgrade on Cedric.  Can he cover left back. If so, then its certain he will be here next season.

I mentioned it after the City game but worth repeating - he only played 12 senior games for Spurs (I read a Spurs fan say he was MOTM in four of them!). He’s still very much fresh out of the packet. He may be 23, but he’s got the career history of an 18/19 year old, he’s learning on the job. I agree with your assessment of him on the ball, he seems comfortable in tight spaces and has a really nice change of feet and low centre of gravity on the ball.

[Saint_clark]

37 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

I mentioned it after the City game but worth repeating - he only played 12 senior games for Spurs (I read a Spurs fan say he was MOTM in four of them!). He’s still very much fresh out of the packet. He may be 23, but he’s got the career history of an 18/19 year old, he’s learning on the job. I agree with your assessment of him on the ball, he seems comfortable in tight spaces and has a really nice change of feet and low centre of gravity on the ball.

It definitely has the feel of the Bertrand deal about it, undervalued and underrated by a bigger side who want a more "complete" player at that age. 

[suewhistle]

I think he does have the makings - like Chez I thought he was slightly unfairly singled out for the Martial goal. The forward was running him at speed but didn't get round his outside but was forced in to the more congested area where Stephens should have done better getting a block in. He may not have the height for the high crosses but he doesn't give me the same level of uneasiness as I had when Cedric was dealing with them, and as we saw from his head injury he isn't afraid to go for it.

 

 

[Saint Keef]

14 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

I have to pay tribute to Ole. How refreshing to see and hear him acknowledging that before the game, that we are known to be the fittest team in the Premier League, and that he expected this to be a very hard game, despite the interviewer waxing lyrical about Utd racking up goals recently.

After the game too, still no bitterness. Paying tribute to the way we played, didn't stop until it was over, and that we deserved a point for the effort we put in.

Just imagine if that had been Jose. Yeah, bitterness and recrimination, mouthing off about excessive injury time.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a breath of fresh air and a credit to his club. I think Utd are back to being title contenders next season, and I hope Ole is there managing them to the title. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to hear Gary Neville's tones for a long time. But Ole, I wish YOU success.

Yes indeed. I totally agree. Ole comes across as an honest straight up guy. I bet he doesn't suffer fools gladly in the dressing room though and I reckon he's a hard taskmaster. He has to be for the way he has turned United around from the mess he took over. And Jose is doing to Tottenham what he did to United......sucking the life out of them. I too wish Ole well.  it makes a change to have a decent guy in charge of Man U. I bet there's a lot of mutual respect between Ole and our own Ralph. 

Compare our fitness and overall rhythm of play to Chelsea and Norwich tonight........what a bore. Both teams looked lifeless and Chelsea are supposedly pushing for Champions League against a team already relegated.  I don't know what Ralph has done to our boys with regard to fitness, attitude and professionalism, but Wow! Keep it up for next season and who knows?

[The Cat]

Also worth considering that along with his relative inexperience he also hasn't spent a long period of time playing under Ralph in our system. The more he plays the better he will fit in. 

If we can get him for an agreeable price he could be a very decent signing.

[Totton Saint]

9 hours ago, Saint Keef said:

Yes indeed. I totally agree. Ole comes across as an honest straight up guy. I bet he doesn't suffer fools gladly in the dressing room though and I reckon he's a hard taskmaster. He has to be for the way he has turned United around from the mess he took over. And Jose is doing to Tottenham what he did to United......sucking the life out of them. I too wish Ole well.  it makes a change to have a decent guy in charge of Man U. I bet there's a lot of mutual respect between Ole and our own Ralph. 

Compare our fitness and overall rhythm of play to Chelsea and Norwich tonight........what a bore. Both teams looked lifeless and Chelsea are supposedly pushing for Champions League against a team already relegated.  I don't know what Ralph has done to our boys with regard to fitness, attitude and professionalism, but Wow! Keep it up for next season and who knows?

I was so bored with the Chelsea and Norwich game I got very depressed for some reason and switched it off

[Nordic Saint]

Some credit should go to our defence, especially Bertrand, who was outstanding, tor helping us get a draw against what is currently the best attacking team in the country. That is the fewest goals United have scored lately. When the TV commentators said United were on a run of scoring at least 3 goals in their last 3 games, you could tell that they expected it to continue against us and if it had, we'd have lost.

Man United 2 Saints 2 may not look as good as Saints 1 Man City 0, Leicester 1 Saints 2, Saints 1 Spurs 0 or Chelsea 0 Saints 2 but against such an in-form attack, which  is scoring goals for fun and was expected to thrash us,  it was still a very good performance.

Edited 15 July, 2020 by Nordic Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

I was so bored with the Chelsea and Norwich game I got very depressed for some reason and switched it off

I kept falling asleep.

[OldNick]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

I was so bored with the Chelsea and Norwich game I got very depressed for some reason and switched it off

I switched off at half time and went to sleep, i probably would have fallen to sleep easier had I left it on

[Whitey Grandad]

23 hours ago, Wurzel said:

 

Fair point, in that case ignore everything I said, the ref dropped a bollock there.

In the interests of accuracy I just watched my recording again. The collision occurs a couple of yards outside the penalty area so no ambiguity there.

For the restart Sky Show a shot of Ole waving his arms and pointing so we viewers miss the important actions but we see the goalkeeper place the ball and kick it downfield with our players running back.

It is a constant complaint of mine that these TV directors are too concerned with showing shots of anything but the action on the pitch.

[Saint_clark]

23 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

In the interests of accuracy I just watched my recording again. The collision occurs a couple of yards outside the penalty area so no ambiguity there.

For the restart Sky Show a shot of Ole waving his arms and pointing so we viewers miss the important actions but we see the goalkeeper place the ball and kick it downfield with our players running back.

It is a constant complaint of mine that these TV directors are too concerned with showing shots of anything but the action on the pitch.

All the providers seem to have a huge hard on for close up shots of players noses or the manager sat staring at the action we should be watching instead of actually showing us what's going on. Still at least they've moved on from the absurd replays that were slowed down about 100 times when HD first came about just to show off how clear the picture is.

[Teddeer]

Unless the ref deemed that KWP had fouled their player he should have dropped the ball to one of our players in the position we had it when he stopped the game. Haven't seen the head clash but my guess would be that it was accidental - if not the ref must think there was a foul so he should have sent off KWP for violent conduct/reckless challenge.