Obafemi or Adams?

[Toadhall Saint]

Still Adams for me - the partnership with Ings is developing nicely 

[Turkish]

He’s turning into a hell of a player. 

[saintwbu]

On 21/09/2020 at 13:27, saintwbu said:

He was a goal away from that probably being the best i’ve seen him play for us yesterday. I thought first half he was our best player, held it up brilliantly, played some great passes and got into good positions. Really glad that he seems to be finding his feet, he’s forced a few great saves this season, the goals will follow soon. 

Scrap that - yesterday was the best he’s played for us! I’m a big fan. You could see the confidence draining from him as the season progressed last year, and the chances started to disappear too. At Fratton Park you could see his frustration, he looked embarrassed to get the applause of the crowd at the end. 

He’s now looking like the striker we bought. Good movement, good hold up play, puts pressure on the opposition defence all the time and is now finding the net too. Think he’ll get better and better. 

[SKD]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

He’s turning into a hell of a player. 

He always has been for me in terms of what he offers outside of the box. Quick, strong, good movement and pretty decent link up play. Had he scored one of his early chances last season, I think he’d have gone on to get 10-15. 

Him and ings look perfectly suited to our style. 

Although, he still doesn’t look like a natural finisher. Seems to snatch at chances a bit 

 

[Toussaint]

On 26/10/2020 at 22:31, SKD said:

He always has been for me in terms of what he offers outside of the box. Quick, strong, good movement and pretty decent link up play. Had he scored one of his early chances last season, I think he’d have gone on to get 10-15. 

Him and ings look perfectly suited to our style. 

Although, he still doesn’t look like a natural finisher. Seems to snatch at chances a bit 

 

I think that will change as his confidence grows. 

[Matthew Le God]

On 26/10/2020 at 18:48, Turkish said:

He’s turning into a hell of a player. 

Are you going to give a 'well done' to Ross Wilson for signing Adams and McCarthy, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Romeu, Djenepo, Redmond & Ings etc in our current first team squad? 😉

Edited 30 October, 2020 by Matthew Le God

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I think that will change as his confidence grows. 

The turnaround in JWP's finishing has been remarkable, so it could happen. Shane Long though

[verlaine1979]

11 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I think that will change as his confidence grows. 

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. His technique striking the ball looked pretty ropey at Birmingham, and there's no reason his confidence would've been low then.

I think with the exception of the goal against city, all his goals for us have basically involved him whacking the ball as hard as he can in the direction of the goal. When he tries to go for placement, it usually ends up straight at the keeper.

Still, he's very strong, holds the ball up well and is much more of a nuisance for defenders than Long ever has been for us. I can see why Ralph appreciates him.

[Toadhall Saint]

35 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. His technique striking the ball looked pretty ropey at Birmingham, and there's no reason his confidence would've been low then.

I think with the exception of the goal against city, all his goals for us have basically involved him whacking the ball as hard as he can in the direction of the goal. When he tries to go for placement, it usually ends up straight at the keeper.

Still, he's very strong, holds the ball up well and is much more of a nuisance for defenders than Long ever has been for us. I can see why Ralph appreciates him.

You expect anyone to take you seriously with your comments/assessment of Steve Davis? 

[saint77]

9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. His technique striking the ball looked pretty ropey at Birmingham, and there's no reason his confidence would've been low then.

I think with the exception of the goal against city, all his goals for us have basically involved him whacking the ball as hard as he can in the direction of the goal. When he tries to go for placement, it usually ends up straight at the keeper.

Still, he's very strong, holds the ball up well and is much more of a nuisance for defenders than Long ever has been for us. I can see why Ralph appreciates him.

We really have some weird support 

[SNSUN]

10 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. His technique striking the ball looked pretty ropey at Birmingham, and there's no reason his confidence would've been low then.

I think with the exception of the goal against city, all his goals for us have basically involved him whacking the ball as hard as he can in the direction of the goal. When he tries to go for placement, it usually ends up straight at the keeper.

Still, he's very strong, holds the ball up well and is much more of a nuisance for defenders than Long ever has been for us. I can see why Ralph appreciates him.

He'll probably learn a lot more from playing alongside Ings and being managed by Ralph than he did at Birmingham playing alongside Jutkiewicz and being managed by Garry Monk, which is why I think he'll continue to improve even more, so maybe the placed goals will come. At 24 he's still 3 or so years off his peak, I think he's a decent asset to have. People worry that we would struggle without Danny Ings but I think Adams recent form has slightly assuaged that.

[saintwbu]

Also worth remembering that we beat Chelsea away last year with Adams and Obafemi up top, and I personally thought they were both brilliant that day. So we do have a bit of variety up top now, if N’Lundulu can be a genuine option too I think we’re pretty well stocked. 

[Professor]

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

[Verbal]

26 minutes ago, Professor said:

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

Odd post.  Firstly, comparing him to Ings is baffling - which team plays with two identikit strikers?  Second, his supposed 'tangled feet' can't disguise the fact that some of his goals have come from taking shots early.  And why is the Man City goal 'strange', rather than quick witted?  His assist rate complements Ings, his power complements Ings' guile, and his partnership with Ings stretches defenders.  He's still learning, but the quality of his all-round game seems to be on a pleasing upward curve.  

[TWar]

23 minutes ago, Professor said:

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

Adams is faster than Ings, and is also stronger and has comparable ball control. What he lacks is the composure and ability to finish, also Ings is a better passer although Adams isn't too bad in this area himself. Ings is a much better player, granted, but Ings is also a top 5 striker in the prem in my opinion arguably only worse than Aguero, Kane, Aubameyang, and maybe Vardy, Werner may also go ahead if he proves himself in this league. We shouldn't be saying "well he is not as good as Ings so Adams is an average player". Adams is still a fantastic premier league forward and I'd have him over anyone from any of last years bottom 10, maybe except Antonio. He is also 3 years off his prime. Che will be a superstar in my opinion, this season I tip him to score 10+ goals and the following season even more. With Ralph coaching him and Ings supporting him I am very excited.

[egg]

23 minutes ago, TWar said:

Adams is faster than Ings, and is also stronger and has comparable ball control. What he lacks is the composure and ability to finish, also Ings is a better passer although Adams isn't too bad in this area himself. Ings is a much better player, granted, but Ings is also a top 5 striker in the prem in my opinion arguably only worse than Aguero, Kane, Aubameyang, and maybe Vardy, Werner may also go ahead if he proves himself in this league. We shouldn't be saying "well he is not as good as Ings so Adams is an average player". Adams is still a fantastic premier league forward and I'd have him over anyone from any of last years bottom 10, maybe except Antonio. He is also 3 years off his prime. Che will be a superstar in my opinion, this season I tip him to score 10+ goals and the following season even more. With Ralph coaching him and Ings supporting him I am very excited.

Good post and pretty much as I see it. Adams is improving in all areas where players can improve - he's getting stronger, his movement is getting better, ditto his touch and use of the ball. Add that to his raw pace, power and finishing and he's gonna get better. My only criticism is his speed of thought which is what separates the best from the rest. I'm not sure whether that will improve, but regardless, we've got a decent player who'll only get better. 

Edited 31 October, 2020 by egg

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Professor said:

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

What an odd way of describing a partnership which has scored 17 goals in 15 League games since the Covid restart.

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

Good post and pretty much as I see it. Adams is improving in all areas where players can improve - he's getting stronger, his movement is getting better, ditto his touch and use of the ball. Add that to his raw pace, power and finishing and he's gonna get better. My only criticism is his speed of thought which is what separates the best from the rest. I'm not sure whether that will improve, but regardless, we've got a decent player who'll only get better. 

As I see it too. The only thing he is lacking is that bit of instinct in front of goal that top strikers have. he’s seems to either hit it as hard as he can or take one touch too many, a bit too long, whereas a really top striker knows when to place it, smash it, take a touch etc instinctively. However the rest of his game has really come on in the last 12 months, strong, quick, good touch, movement a great partner for Ings and looks a really good player now. 

Edited 31 October, 2020 by Turkish

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What an odd way of describing a partnership which has scored 17 goals in 15 League games since the Covid restart.

We have some interesting fans. 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Professor said:

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

Let's pick this apart a bit.

You are comparing him to Ings for a start - why do that? We're not going to have a '2nd striker' as good as Danny Ings. Talking down on Adams because he's 'not better/as good as Ings' is ludicrous.

You are picking apart what he lacks compared to Ings, but not once have you said what he brings us that Ings doesn't. 

'Persevere?' - It's the best partnership we've had up front for years, it's not to do with persevering with it - it works brilliantly.

Adams brings different elements to our game that Ings hasn't got - notably strength, power and the ability to hold up the ball. It's so important to have that presence up front because immediately you open up the ability to bring others into the game. To me, it looks as if you are zooming in on a couple of his limitations and comparing his goal scoring to Ings and coming to the conclusion that he's not good enough.

I suggest you start watching our games correctly because it seems as if you are watching them through some sort of agenda.

[skintsaint]

6 goals in 12 I believe now for Adams, always looked to be short of confidence at the start of last season which coincided with us being disjointed and playing shite while RH was trying different things out. Now we have that set system, Adams works a lot harder than Obafemi in games and with that added confidence looks a decent forward player at this level. Competition for places is a good thing to have. Long looks done and wouldn't be surprised if he is loaned out/sold next transfer window.

[verlaine1979]

Two things:

1. 27 isn't a player's peak anymore. It was when teams didn't debut players until they were well into their 20s, but according to Dortmund's sport science team, players decline from 26 onward.

2. Adams isn't fast (he was easily outpaced by a Burnley CB only a few games ago). Like Redmond, I'll leave the reason why people assume he must be quick uninvestigated.

[Granite_City_Saint]

20 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Two things:

1. 27 isn't a player's peak anymore. It was when teams didn't debut players until they were well into their 20s, but according to Dortmund's sport science team, players decline from 26 onward.

2. Adams isn't fast (he was easily outpaced by a Burnley CB only a few games ago). Like Redmond, I'll leave the reason why people assume he must be quick uninvestigated.

Perhaps we should get rid off Danny Ings now then, as he is obviously well past his best.

[verlaine1979]

Just now, Granite_City_Saint said:

Perhaps we should get rid off Danny Ings now then, as he is obviously well past his best.

That's not the point - the point is that Adams' finishing is what it is. He's not going to gain technique at 24.

[krissyboy31]

33 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Two things:

1. 27 isn't a player's peak anymore. It was when teams didn't debut players until they were well into their 20s, but according to Dortmund's sport science team, players decline from 26 onward.

2. Adams isn't fast (he was easily outpaced by a Burnley CB only a few games ago). Like Redmond, I'll leave the reason why people assume he must be quick uninvestigated.

On that basis, Rickie Lambert wouldn't have been given a chance.

[saintwbu]

41 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Two things:

1. 27 isn't a player's peak anymore. It was when teams didn't debut players until they were well into their 20s, but according to Dortmund's sport science team, players decline from 26 onward.

2. Adams isn't fast (he was easily outpaced by a Burnley CB only a few games ago). Like Redmond, I'll leave the reason why people assume he must be quick uninvestigated.

Presumably you’ve got the stats to back up the fact that Adams isn’t quick. Didn’t know Burnley CB’s were the barometer of speed. 

[Lighthouse]

18 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

That's not the point - the point is that Adams' finishing is what it is. He's not going to gain technique at 24.

Eh? 24 year olds don’t get taller, quicker or stronger but technique and finishing are two things they can improve upon.

[Harry_SFC]

5 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Presumably you’ve got the stats to back up the fact that Adams isn’t quick. Didn’t know Burnley CB’s were the barometer of speed. 

Verlaine seems to get a kick out of slagging off our players (mainly the wrong ones), so I wouldn't bother.

[Matthew Le God]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

24 year olds don’t get taller, quicker or stronger but technique and finishing are two things they can improve upon.

Why can't 24 year olds get quicker or stronger? 

[Toussaint]

On 30/10/2020 at 22:18, verlaine1979 said:

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. His technique striking the ball looked pretty ropey at Birmingham, and there's no reason his confidence would've been low then.

I think with the exception of the goal against city, all his goals for us have basically involved him whacking the ball as hard as he can in the direction of the goal. When he tries to go for placement, it usually ends up straight at the keeper.

Still, he's very strong, holds the ball up well and is much more of a nuisance for defenders than Long ever has been for us. I can see why Ralph appreciates him.

Well I could replace “I think” with “I hope”, the fact is I really want him to do well. I sense he is a really decent lad and I want him to do well. It must have been extremely tough for him last season and all credit to him for sticking with it and Ralph for sticking with him. Even if this is as good as it gets he is looking like great value.

[Charlie Wayman]

38 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Well I could replace “I think” with “I hope”, the fact is I really want him to do well. I sense he is a really decent lad and I want him to do well. It must have been extremely tough for him last season and all credit to him for sticking with it and Ralph for sticking with him. Even if this is as good as it gets he is looking like great value.

Let's be honest, there isn't much competition for his place unless Dan N'Lundulu comes good.

[verlaine1979]

On 31/10/2020 at 09:47, Lighthouse said:

Eh? 24 year olds don’t get taller, quicker or stronger but technique and finishing are two things they can improve upon.

Marginal gains at that age. Do you have anyone in mind that went from having poor technique to good technique (bearing in mind that I'm only talking about his ball striking/finishing and nothing else)? You can usually spot whether a player has good control or shooting from their first handful of appearances.

[Bakovnetski]

Adams is still developing in the right direction. Obafemi not so much. I would punt Dan N'lundulu ahead of him. 

[waylander]

On 31/10/2020 at 16:47, Lighthouse said:

Eh? 24 year olds don’t get taller, quicker or stronger but technique and finishing are two things they can improve upon.

Disagree. With appropriate training they can get both stronger and faster, not so much taller.

[St_Tel49]

On 01/11/2020 at 22:40, verlaine1979 said:

Marginal gains at that age. Do you have anyone in mind that went from having poor technique to good technique (bearing in mind that I'm only talking about his ball striking/finishing and nothing else)? You can usually spot whether a player has good control or shooting from their first handful of appearances.

and never change your mind thereafter

[skintsaint]

With Obafemi representing Ireland...do we think Che will end up playing for the Scots? Can't see him ever playing for England.

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, skintsaint said:

With Obafemi representing Ireland...do we think Che will end up playing for the Scots? Can't see him ever playing for England.

never say never

[SuperSAINT]

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/southampton-michael-obafemi-ralph-hasenhuttl-4669744 

[SKD]

Given Adams is now a dead cert to start, who do we partner with him? 
 

for me, I like the idea of Theo and Adams. I think naturally, Adams is a very similar player to Ings (likes to drop in to the 10 and find space, rather than play off the shoulder), where as I think Theo will naturally play off the last man. 
 

Big moment in Theo’s return, imo. The next 4-6 weeks will really determine if he was a worthwhile transfer. 

[Convict Colony]

Good to see Che being up for player of the month award, got some tough competition hope he wins, 2 goals and assist.

But Che, if there is a better endorsement than that your a good player, I've put you into my fantasy team for tonight so a hatrick tonight brah.  

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8919343/Che-Adams-admits-relief-choosing-stay-Southampton-goal-drought.html

Decent article on Che in the Mail..

[mrfahaji]

On 31/10/2020 at 22:23, Harry_SFC said:

Verlaine seems to get a kick out of slagging off our players (mainly the wrong ones), so I wouldn't bother.

He will always be synonymous with Steven Davis! I found it really annoying, but I think that was initially a reaction to Davis being everyone's "unsung hero" and "massively underrated" award, and when you are against the tide, you end up arguing more vociferously than otherwise.

Most of the time Verlaine's posts are well reasoned, and his comments above are no different. Pointing out a player's weakness, or critiquing someone's blind faith is not the same as slagging a player off.

Adams is obviously playing well now, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say he's an automatic starter because of his all round contribution rather than his prowess in front of goal. He's lacked conviction on several notable chances, that doesn't detract from the rest of his good play.

Edited 6 November, 2020 by mrfahaji

[Pedantic Pete]

Che up for EA player of the month..get your votes in! 

 

[davefizzy14]

All done. Voted for Che

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8919343/Che-Adams-admits-relief-choosing-stay-Southampton-goal-drought.html

Decent article on Che in the Mail..

Thanks for posting 👍

[davefizzy14]

53 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Thanks for posting 👍

Great read this on Che. Absolutely love his attitude and he is being duly rewarded now

[Jonnyboy]

On 31/10/2020 at 10:10, Professor said:

Adams clearly has some die-hard fans on here.  I'm not one of them although I  wouldn't argue that Obefemi should be selected ahead of him.  If you compare him to Ings, his weaknesses can be seen.  OK, Ings is exceptional, but Adams is very far behind him in speed of ball control and shooting. When he's in the box he seems slow at decision making  and sometimes gets his feet too tangled to get a shot away.  He doesn't have Ing's ability to pounce on the ball and get a shot off quickly.  He has scored a couple of strange goals, the long distance punt from the centre circle against Man City that broke his duck and the more recent scramble at Chelsea from a defensive catastrophe shouldn't disguise then fact that he hasn't been the goal scorer the club thought they were buying based on his record at Birmingham.    The Manager may well persevere with Adams because his understanding with Ings  creates chances but I wouldn't be surprised to see him subbed as matches go on to give Obefemi or Walcott some game time.

😉

[Convict Colony]

6 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Good to see Che being up for player of the month award, got some tough competition hope he wins, 2 goals and assist.

But Che, if there is a better endorsement than that your a good player, I've put you into my fantasy team for tonight so a hatrick tonight brah.  

Thanks buddy

[Harry_SFC]

Incredible performance from Che tonight. Pretty good from someone who lacks pace, awareness and technique though, wasn't it? 

[Saint_clark]

Hold my hands up and say I was wrong. He's developed into an outstanding premier league forward.