BLM & Football

[Weston Super Saint]

17 hours ago, Red said:

Don't confuse the sentiment with the politics. This is not about supporting the BLM politic group - which I admit has some dubious aims, rather this is about supporting equality for all. I have seen at close hand so called institutional racism, and it exists - from talking slowly and loudly to a black person to being asked "where are you really from" etc. etc. Maybe it was the wrong slogan, but this is not about supporting a radical or political group, rather about treating everyone as you would want to be treated yourself - but I guess that is not a catchy phrase??

When did that change - the protest marches I saw were organised by the BLM 'politic group' and had banners, placards, t-shirts etc supporting the BLM 'politic group'.  At what point did it change from supporting the BLM to distancing from the BLM and why?

[aintforever]

44 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

When did that change - the protest marches I saw were organised by the BLM 'politic group' and had banners, placards, t-shirts etc supporting the BLM 'politic group'.  At what point did it change from supporting the BLM to distancing from the BLM and why?

The protests were in response to the George Floyd murder, I would have thought that was obvious even to you old gammons.

Are you still pissing your pants over the ‘defund the police’ thing, seriously?

 

[scally]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The protests were in response to the George Floyd murder, I would have thought that was obvious even to you old gammons.

Are you still pissing your pants over the ‘defund the police’ thing, seriously?

 

What about the protests for Daniel Shaver, Tony Timpa and Justine Damond are their lives not important. Have you actually done any research into how many unarmed people get killed by the police in America every year or do you just listen to the mainstream media and assume it's only black people?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

The protests were in response to the George Floyd murder, I would have thought that was obvious even to you old gammons.

Are you still pissing your pants over the ‘defund the police’ thing, seriously?

 

Nope, definitely BLM protests.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/20/black-lives-matter-protesters-march-london-scuffles-break-glasgow/

Even after four weeks they were referred to as BLM :

Quote

Thousands of people across the country have  gathered for Black Lives Matters (BLM) protests, as demonstrations continue for the fourth weekend in the row.

You do seem quite keen to try and disassociate the protests from BLM and attribute them to George Floyd, I wonder why that is?

Edited 6 July, 2020 by Weston Super Saint
.

[SKD]

1 hour ago, scally said:

What about the protests for Daniel Shaver, Tony Timpa and Justine Damond are their lives not important. Have you actually done any research into how many unarmed people get killed by the police in America every year or do you just listen to the mainstream media and assume it's only black people?

He’s used ‘gammons’ as an insult, which tells you all you need to know about him. 
 

no doubt rolls off other lefty buzzwords, he knows nothing about, on twitter, such as ‘austerity’ and ‘oppressed’. 

 

 

[aintforever]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nope, definitely BLM protests.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/20/black-lives-matter-protesters-march-london-scuffles-break-glasgow/

Even after four weeks they were referred to as BLM :

You do seem quite keen to try and disassociate the protests from BLM and attribute them to George Floyd, I wonder why that is?

You are just being deliberately obtuse, obviously was all sparked off by Floyd's murder. Unless thousands of people just decided, out of the blue, to go on a march in the middle of a pandemic.

Black Lives Matter is a slogan as well as a protest group. I thought the Premier League had already explained this to you simpletons:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53242328

 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You are just being deliberately obtuse, obviously was all sparked off by Floyd's murder. Unless thousands of people just decided, out of the blue, to go on a march in the middle of a pandemic.

Black Lives Matter is a slogan as well as a protest group. I thought the Premier League had already explained this to you simpletons:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53242328

 

Sorry, who's being obtuse?

The Premier League has invented its own Black Lives Matter campaign (it even says so in the link you posted).  That is not the one that organised protest marches in London.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You are just being deliberately obtuse, obviously was all sparked off by Floyd's murder. Unless thousands of people just decided, out of the blue, to go on a march in the middle of a pandemic.

Black Lives Matter is a slogan as well as a protest group. I thought the Premier League had already explained this to you simpletons:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53242328

 

I’m glad the Premier league have clarified the situation to make their stance clear. Some simpletons were vigorously applauding the actions at the first mention of it when they clearly didn’t understand what was meant and just wanted to look like a nice person. Glad we have some clarity. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

The protests were in response to the George Floyd murder, I would have thought that was obvious even to you old gammons.

Are you still pissing your pants over the ‘defund the police’ thing, seriously?

 

1) it's really odd that you're continually referring to anyone with different views to you as old and white. You don't know the ethnicity or the age of anyone on here. I assume you're trying to use them in some sort of derogatory manner in order to be offensive. 

2) would you mind telling me if these pictures are from the black lives matter protests or the black lives matter organisation rally? 

 

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Sorry, who's being obtuse?

The Premier League has invented its own Black Lives Matter campaign (it even says so in the link you posted).  That is not the one that organised protest marches in London.

Organised by BLM, because of the George Floyd murder. Attended by thousands who just want equality.

Here's a story about two people who attended here, might be worth you actually reading this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53208273

One particularly appropriate bit: "White people in England can be a bit smarter, they know exactly what they can't say to be obviously racist, but they'll do it more subtly," Patrick says. "They'll come for you in other ways."

 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Organised by BLM, because of the George Floyd murder. Attended by thousands who just want equality.

Here's a story about two people who attended here, might be worth you actually reading this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53208273

One particularly appropriate bit: "White people in England can be a bit smarter, they know exactly what they can't say to be obviously racist, but they'll do it more subtly," Patrick says. "They'll come for you in other ways."

Were these the same rallies that had signs at them punching white people? Or that had "fuck white people?" Or that called Robert the Bruce a racist? Or that injured a number of police officers? Did all those attending just want equality? 

[aintforever]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Were these the same rallies that had signs at them punching white people? Or that had "fuck white people?" Or that called Robert the Bruce a racist? Or that injured a number of police officers? Did all those attending just want equality? 

By their nature you always get some idiots at protests. Some will be anarchists there for a fight, some will be political activists who want to defund the plod etc etc, some were probably just there to go for a walk with their mates. From what I saw the vast majority looked like they were there to simply march against racism.

 

 

[SKD]

16 minutes ago, aintforever said:

By their nature you always get some idiots at protests. Some will be anarchists there for a fight, some will be political activists who want to defund the plod etc etc, some were probably just there to go for a walk with their mates. From what I saw the vast majority looked like they were there to simply march against racism.

 

 

Still waiting for a tangible action / recommendation to come out...

other than defund the police, I’m yet to see one... perhaps, because the Uk isn’t actually institutionally racist?  

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, aintforever said:

By their nature you always get some idiots at protests. Some will be anarchists there for a fight, some will be political activists who want to defund the plod etc etc, some were probably just there to go for a walk with their mates. From what I saw the vast majority looked like they were there to simply march against racism.

 

 

So do you want to revise your post about what the protests "were" about? It seems there were a significant number who had differing ideas about what they were about albeit the catalyst for the protests was the same event. 

[aintforever]

21 minutes ago, SKD said:

Still waiting for a tangible action / recommendation to come out...

other than defund the police, I’m yet to see one... perhaps, because the Uk isn’t actually institutionally racist?  

Why did Boris Johnson say this then:

"concerns about racial inequality were based on a cold reality and that leaders simply could not ignore fears that black, Asian and ethnic minority groups (Bame) would be victims of discrimination in education, employment and the law."

[aintforever]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So do you want to revise your post about what the protests "were" about? It seems there were a significant number who had differing ideas about what they were about albeit the catalyst for the protests was the same event. 

They were about racial equality. I expect every single person there had their own opinions on what that means and how to achieve it.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, aintforever said:

They were about racial equality. I expect every single person there had their own opinions on what that means and how to achieve it.

 

What does ending the nuclear family, cisgender hetero-normative patriarchy, ageism, a statue of Robert the Bruce,  ending capitalism, Palestine or trans rights have to do with racial equality ?

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

They were about racial equality. I expect every single person there had their own opinions on what that means and how to achieve it.

And yet, you seem to find it inconceivable that on here people can have their own opinions on what that means and how to achieve it and that anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on how that should happen are 'old and white' and 'racist' 'right wingers'.

[East Kent Saint]

What we can all agree about is there are a lot of people out there who are genuinely dim . Statues ? Yes let’s attack all statues regardless. Spray slogans on memorials ? Yes let spray slogans on any memorial . Etc ....  

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

What we can all agree about is there are a lot of people out there who are genuinely dim . Statues ? Yes let’s attack all statues regardless. Spray slogans on memorials ? Yes let spray slogans on any memorial . Etc ....  

I think we certainly can agree on that. That's why this ambiguity around Black Lives Matter the organisation and Black Lives Matter the protest movement is a bigger problem than it should be. It's clear that Black Lives Matter the organisation is getting a hell of a lot more support than it should do precisely because dim people who don't look at things beyond a surface level see a slogan and nod along, giving financial and moral support without looking any further. 

[East Kent Saint]

BTW interesting article in Guardian today about Paul Parker and his experiences , local club WHU he avoided as they were a racist club plus the chief scout was a known racist .so made his start at Fulham and progressed to ManU via QPR then England . 
His view seems to be make your mark by being successful not protesting.

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

BTW interesting article in Guardian today about Paul Parker and his experiences , local club WHU he avoided as they were a racist club plus the chief scout was a known racist .so made his start at Fulham and progressed to ManU via QPR then England . 
His view seems to be make your mark by being successful not protesting.

To be fair, I think there's room for a bit of both when there's obvious and overt injustice. It does seem though that some just want to abdicate any sort of responsibility for their own lives because it's easier to blame racism or the systemic heteronormative capitalist patriarchal system.

[Red]

12 hours ago, aintforever said:

Organised by BLM, because of the George Floyd murder. Attended by thousands who just want equality.

Here's a story about two people who attended here, might be worth you actually reading this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53208273

One particularly appropriate bit: "White people in England can be a bit smarter, they know exactly what they can't say to be obviously racist, but they'll do it more subtly," Patrick says. "They'll come for you in other ways."

 

👍 Well said. Problem is some people will simply not accept it. There are all sorts of prejudices that still exist today, some want to change it to make life equal for all, others don't for whatever reason don't, and so be it, it's their choice - just hope they are not victims themselves in future.

Forget politics, groups, agenda's etc.All I would urge people is to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves that's all. Is it just a coincidence that more black people are stopped and searched in the UK than any other group even though they make up less than a quarter of the population? Maybe, but I suspect rather not. That is not to say you stop using "stop and search", just that you maybe apply it more fairly. 

I'm sure I will get abuse for this posting, but I would suggest you have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror if you think it is wrong not to treat everyone equally and fairly, and that that is happening right now.

[Saint86]

9 hours ago, Red said:

👍 Well said. Problem is some people will simply not accept it. There are all sorts of prejudices that still exist today, some want to change it to make life equal for all, others don't for whatever reason don't, and so be it, it's their choice - just hope they are not victims themselves in future.

Forget politics, groups, agenda's etc.All I would urge people is to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves that's all. Is it just a coincidence that more black people are stopped and searched in the UK than any other group even though they make up less than a quarter of the population? Maybe, but I suspect rather not. That is not to say you stop using "stop and search", just that you maybe apply it more fairly. 

I'm sure I will get abuse for this posting, but I would suggest you have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror if you think it is wrong not to treat everyone equally and fairly, and that that is happening right now.

You seem to think that the use of stop and search is racist because the demographic ratios don't match the population demographics for the entire country, i.e. "apply it more fairly". This is not a sound argument i'm afraid. You're expecting stop and search to match national demographics and crying racism when it doesn't. For comparison, 170 knife crimes per 100,000 in London in 2019 compared to 24 per knife crimes per 100,000 in Gwent.

I can't find the stats for both areas but we can safely assume that London and the UK will be opposite extremes of the national average... And 80% of the UK is white. So what do you want? Get the police to do 4 times (minimum) as many stop and search operations in (the high risk 🙃) areas like Gwent and get those figures evened out? Or equally, do significantly less stop and searches in at risk areas. I would bet the former would waste police time and resources and the latter would lead to even more tragic knife crime statistics.

The issue in this case is social equality, and I think you're targeting a symptom, not a cause.

Edited 7 July, 2020 by Saint86

[Red]

10 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

You seem to think that the use of stop and search is racist because the demographic ratios don't match the population demographics for the entire country, i.e. "apply it more fairly". This is not a sound argument i'm afraid. You're expecting stop and search to match national demographics and crying racism when it doesn't. For comparison, 170 knife crimes per 100,000 in London in 2019 compared to 24 per knife crimes per 100,000 in Gwent.

I can't find the stats for both areas but we can safely assume that London and the UK will be opposite extremes of the national average... And 80% of the UK is white. So what do you want? Get the police to do 4 times (minimum) as many stop and search operations in (the high risk 🙃) areas like Gwent and get those figures evened out? Or equally, do significantly less stop and searches in at risk areas. I would bet the former would waste police time and resources and the latter would lead to even more tragic knife crime statistics.

The issue in this case is social equality, and I think you're targeting a symptom, not a cause.

Think you know exactly what I am saying - if you don't agree with it, that's your choice, but please don't try and defend it with Gwent type examples - the more relevant question would be how many black people got stopped searched in Gwent v white? Just take London if you will - far more black people get stopped and searched than any other ethnic race - if you think that's fair, than so be it - just don't try and defend it. It may not be a great example but it's just an example to say people do get treated unfairly in certain circumstances - I am sure the police do not deliberately set out to pick on black people but it happens, and if we all just stood back and thought about it and asked why, and would I be happy if my daughter/son etc. got the same treatment, then maybe, just maybe we all get along better.

No where have I said stop and search is racist - the disportioned use of it is a concern (at least to me).

[captainchris]

BLM is political and has place in football.

Football already had ‘Kick it out’ BLM is extremism politics nothing less.

[Manuel]

Does football need to be political though?  I watch football to get away from politics and, well, life in general.  It's escapism for some people.  

It used to be the FA used to fine people for showing slogans or attempting to make political statements.  Remember Fowler and the dockers supporting t-shirt that he got fined for?  

[skintsaint]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53762379

some fans already had enough of it by looks of it.

[beatlesaint]

12 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53762379

some fans already had enough of it by looks of it.

Umm, the Americans get very arsey about anything to do with their national anthem. Don’t they often have a grizzle if someone doesn’t sing it how they think it should be sung at the Super Bowl?

And this did just happen to be in the south 😏

[Saint_clark]

I think it's ironic he describes it as disgusting that they booed him for taking a stand for what he believes in...isn't that what they're doing as well? It takes much more guts to speak out against the mainstream than to just go with it as well.

[SKD]

Let’s see what happens if they continue this nonsense when fans return in England.... 

my guess is that they’ll conveniently bottle it as they know the large share of the population do not agree with it. which kind of makes The whole thing (taking a stand, or knee in this case, for what you believe in) irrelevant if the buckle at the first sign of resistance. 

[aintforever]

58 minutes ago, SKD said:

Let’s see what happens if they continue this nonsense when fans return in England.... 

my guess is that they’ll conveniently bottle it as they know the large share of the population do not agree with it. which kind of makes The whole thing (taking a stand, or knee in this case, for what you believe in) irrelevant if the buckle at the first sign of resistance. 

Think it was only planned to last until the end of last season so no need to wet your pants.

[1sydsaint]

The only question "is support of of any political movement appropriate at a football match?"

There are many OTHER worthwhile movements for example physical abuse in marriage to name but one.

Should there be a roster whereby ALL movements of social importance are supported at the start of of a game.

I'm old enough to remember going to a game and the closest thing to a political statement was throwing halfpennies [farthings wouldn't fly] at the Salvo's.

I have empathy for BLM, but as far as football is concerned the point has been made and it's time to move on.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I think it's ironic he describes it as disgusting that they booed him for taking a stand for what he believes in...isn't that what they're doing as well? It takes much more guts to speak out against the mainstream than to just go with it as well.

It is not ironic whatsoever 

[Saint_clark]

41 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is not ironic whatsoever 

Is it not? Surely the person or people booing is taking just as much of a stand for what they believe as the person kneeling. 

[whelk]

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Is it not? Surely the person or people booing is taking just as much of a stand for what they believe as the person kneeling. 

Yeah exactly that and in no way a bigoted redneck who hates blacks showing no respect. 

[Saint]

This forum is such a garbage pile. Full of fragile older white men who just have to have an opinion on everything.  

It's so grim reading some of these opinions. Makes me feel ashamed to share a city and stadium with some of you. Yuck.

[whelk]

35 minutes ago, Saint said:

This forum is such a garbage pile. Full of fragile older white men who just have to have an opinion on everything.  

It's so grim reading some of these opinions. Makes me feel ashamed to share a city and stadium with some of you. Yuck.

Opinions on a forum? Yeah fck that

[Batman]

40 minutes ago, Saint said:

This forum is such a garbage pile. Full of fragile older white men who just have to have an opinion on everything.  

It's so grim reading some of these opinions. Makes me feel ashamed to share a city and stadium with some of you. Yuck.

lets cancel ban them!

[hypochondriac]

44 minutes ago, Saint said:

This forum is such a garbage pile. Full of fragile older white men who just have to have an opinion on everything.  

It's so grim reading some of these opinions. Makes me feel ashamed to share a city and stadium with some of you. Yuck.

Wow. What a racist comment assuming the gender, age and ethnicity of others and using them in a dispariging way because they have a different opinion to you. You certainly should feel ashamed but not for the reasons you think. 

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, Saint said:

This forum is such a garbage pile. Full of fragile older white men who just have to have an opinion on everything.  

It's so grim reading some of these opinions. Makes me feel ashamed to share a city and stadium with some of you. Yuck.

Agreed. One of the key ways to eliminate racism is for people with a superiority complex to tell everyone they don't know how ashamed they are to live within 30 miles of them because they don't agree with them. Piety is one of the key attack strategies in our battle against racism Saint.

Edited 14 August, 2020 by Turkish

[Saint]

The people responding don't surprise me at all. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion. I'm not trying to silence you. But you would like to think that I am so you can start with the 'well actually.....'

God this place is boring. The same 20 users analysing everything to death for the past decade and more. Trolling each other and responding to every piece of bait that's dangled in front of you. 

[Saint86]

A lot of them are anonymous profiles. You don't know their age, skin colour, or gender. In itself you've just negatively discriminated based on your personal stereotyping.

Anyone of them could be Glasgow Saint (or none of them). Given this, I agree its risky to allow them to voice their views, but it is unfair to blanket dismiss them all off hand because they have 30k+ posts and occasionally type love is light at the end of their posts in the summer months. 🤷‍♂️

Edited 14 August, 2020 by Saint86

[sadoldgit]

On 07/07/2020 at 20:23, Manuel said:

Does football need to be political though?  I watch football to get away from politics and, well, life in general.  It's escapism for some people.  

It used to be the FA used to fine people for showing slogans or attempting to make political statements.  Remember Fowler and the dockers supporting t-shirt that he got fined for?  

Sadly football is an area that has a major world stage and where racism is still prevalent. How do you ignore it in the sport when players like Sterling are getting racially abused when they walk onto the pitch? It needs to be fought and stamped out where it is occurring, that is why football cannot just ignore it and move on.

[aintforever]

On 07/07/2020 at 20:23, Manuel said:

Does football need to be political though?  I watch football to get away from politics and, well, life in general.  It's escapism for some people.  

It used to be the FA used to fine people for showing slogans or attempting to make political statements.  Remember Fowler and the dockers supporting t-shirt that he got fined for?  

The players were not making a political statement, just anti racism. I thought their statement(s) made that pretty clear.

[Turkish]

I see the virtue signalling claxon has gone off. 

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I see the virtue signalling claxon has gone off. 

It was the explaining the obvious claxon actually, not surprised you misunderstood.

[Turkish]

47 minutes ago, aintforever said:

It was the explaining the obvious claxon actually, not surprised you misunderstood.

I’m glad there are people like you around to explain things to those of us Less virtuous pal