BLM & Football

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

How about the latest attempts to redesign the medal you get for a knighthood because someone thinks it looks a little bit like how George floyd was murdered? Even sir Michael Palin is backing it (why Michael? I really thought you were great!) 

You better be careful. If our clubs like Pontypool RFC, you’ll end up banned. 
 

 

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[SKD]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

It's good to see that the PL have clarified their Black Lives Matter slogan is not endorsing any particular group or anything political, Think most reasonably intelligent people knew this already though.

Hopefully now the bed-wetters worried about the police being defunded etc can now stop picking holes in what is obviously a movement for good.

Not gonna wash, I’m afraid. 
 

It was very clear from the start that BLM had hard left political undertones. It took 5 minutes of investigations to find that out. 
 

why not use kick it out or something like football against racism, which I think No one would argue with (although taking the knee for what seems forever more is a bit much and making the whole gesture meaningless). 
 

the PL, like the labour part and others are being left with egg on their face after BLM showed their true colours. 
 

All they’ve done is divide, which is a shame really. 

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, SKD said:

Not gonna wash, I’m afraid. 
 

It was very clear from the start that BLM had hard left political undertones. It took 5 minutes of investigations to find that out. 
 

why not use kick it out or something like football against racism, which I think No one would argue with (although taking the knee for what seems forever more is a bit much and making the whole gesture meaningless). 
 

the PL, like the labour part and others are being left with egg on their face after BLM showed their true colours. 
 

All they’ve done is divide, which is a shame really. 

Indeed, if I was able to find out what the true meaning of the BLM organisation was then everybody can. All any of this has done is divide us, not bring us together. 

[notnowcato]

16 hours ago, Turkish said:

"Largely peaceful" protests that led to over 20 police officers injured and 140 arrests along with kelloggs being accused of racism due to having a monkey on the box of coco pops are just two of many examples. 

From a national viewpoint, the multiple protests that took place were in the main peaceful. I thought the silent protests were excellent. I would never condone violence but I can understand how some may feel that confrontation is an effective way of showing that enough is enough. 
 

I’ve missed the Kellogg’s coco pops thing, was this a statement from BLM?

[skintsaint]

13 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I’ve missed the Kellogg’s coco pops thing, was this a statement from BLM?

Think it was a MP who said to remove that.

[Turkish]

35 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

From a national viewpoint, the multiple protests that took place were in the main peaceful. I thought the silent protests were excellent. I would never condone violence but I can understand how some may feel that confrontation is an effective way of showing that enough is enough. 
 

I’ve missed the Kellogg’s coco pops thing, was this a statement from BLM?

The guardian and BBC plus quite a few on here described the London protests as largely peaceful too.  If that's your definition of largely peaceful then both world wars were largely peaceful as well, the London bombings were largely peaceful, after all millions live in London but less than 100 people died. 

I see its now being debated if Jesus is racist because he's usually portrayed as white, just seen it labelled an image of white supremacy. I presume the LGBT will also be all over this now say it's also sexist Jesus is a man. Then there are other racist things like whitening toothpaste, milk, the British countryside, racism is everywhere. A black person cant even go for a walk in the New Forest without being subject to racism.

 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

 All any of this has done is divide us, not bring us together. 

Spot on. 
 

Whats going to happen if they’re still indulging in this pony when fans are allowed back in. Will the supporters all respectfully take a knee in solidarity, or will some not do so, or even boo & shout, causing arguments and accusations of racism and the like. They’ve jumped the shark now. 

[East Kent Saint]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

The guardian and BBC plus quite a few on here described the London protests as largely peaceful too.  If that's your definition of largely peaceful then both world wars were largely peaceful as well, the London bombings were largely peaceful, after all millions live in London but less than 100 people died. 

I see its now being debated if Jesus is racist because he's usually portrayed as white, just seen it labelled an image of white supremacy. I presume the LGBT will also be all over this now say it's also sexist Jesus is a man. Then there are other racist things like whitening toothpaste, milk, the British countryside, racism is everywhere. A black person cant even go for a walk in the New Forest without being subject to racism.

 

 

 

 Think they were pointing out that Jesus is being portrayed as a white Caucasian when he was from the Middle East but I suspect you are over exaggerating to make a point !

[aintforever]

13 hours ago, SKD said:

Not gonna wash, I’m afraid. 
 

It was very clear from the start that BLM had hard left political undertones. It took 5 minutes of investigations to find that out. 
 

why not use kick it out or something like football against racism, which I think No one would argue with (although taking the knee for what seems forever more is a bit much and making the whole gesture meaningless). 
 

the PL, like the labour part and others are being left with egg on their face after BLM showed their true colours. 
 

All they’ve done is divide, which is a shame really. 

I don't think there is much division at all, from what I can see the vast majority of people see the gestures for what they are and are generally supportive, it was crystal clear to me why they made the gestures they did and what it meant. The idea that the PL would endorse crackpot ideas like defunding the police is laughable.

 

The phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a Twitter hashtag, a slogan, a social movement, or a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice. That confederation of groups contains some people with fucked up ideas of how to achieve equality, but the aim is the same and there will be many different political views within the movement. As one of their activists says: "BLM encompasses all who publicly declare that black lives matter and devote their time and energy accordingly."

 

I fail to see how many can be against it now they have explained clearly that are not endorsing anything political. We should be applauding the players for trying to do some good for a change instead of drink driving and shagging prostitues.

[Lord Duckhunter]

50 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I don't think there is much division at all, from what I can see the vast majority of people see the gestures for what they are and are generally supportive, it was crystal clear to me why they made the gestures they did and what it meant. The idea that the PL would endorse crackpot ideas like defunding the police is laughable.

 

The phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a Twitter hashtag, a slogan, a social movement, or a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice. That confederation of groups contains some people with fucked up ideas of how to achieve equality, but the aim is the same and there will be many different political views within the movement. As one of their activists says: "BLM encompasses all who publicly declare that black lives matter and devote their time and energy accordingly."

 

I fail to see how many can be against it now they have explained clearly that are not endorsing anything political. We should be applauding the players for trying to do some good for a change instead of drink driving and shagging prostitues.

Doesn’t wash I’m afraid. They jumped on a bandwagon and now realise they should have checked who was driving it first. Coincidence is it, that they’re now making the distinction between black lives matter & Black Lives Matter, following negative press reports ,  I don’t think so.

The had a perfectly acceptable anti racism group, ‘kick it out’ they could have used as a vehicle for their righteousness. They even could have done something about it before a bloke got killed across the Atlantic. All these white guys standing in solidarity with their black colleagues, where have they all  been hiding? We’re told it’s been rife for years, it wouldn’t take a guy being killed in the US for me to make a stand in solidarity with my friends & colleagues. The whole thing is phoney, pure and simple. 

[East Kent Saint]

Apparently back in the day members of the C of E made a mint by owning plantations/ slaves . Then they were paid enough compensation when slavery was “abolished” that they could afford to build new churches ! 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Doesn’t wash I’m afraid. They jumped on a bandwagon and now realise they should have checked who was driving it first. Coincidence is it, that they’re now making the distinction between black lives matter & Black Lives Matter, following negative press reports ,  I don’t think so.

The had a perfectly acceptable anti racism group, ‘kick it out’ they could have used as a vehicle for their righteousness. They even could have done something about it before a bloke got killed across the Atlantic. All these white guys standing in solidarity with their black colleagues, where have they all  been hiding? We’re told it’s been rife for years, it wouldn’t take a guy being killed in the US for me to make a stand in solidarity with my friends & colleagues. The whole thing is phoney, pure and simple. 

They are making the distinction because the gutter press like The Mail are picking up on the political beliefs of some of the people involved and making out the whole movement is some sort of stealth Marxist plot which is bollocks.

[Batman]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

They are making the distinction because the gutter press like The Mail are picking up on the political beliefs of some of the people involved and making out the whole movement is some sort of stealth Marxist plot which is bollocks.

Aren't the Premier League using the actual BLM logo, whilst not really support them as a whole?

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Batman said:

Aren't the Premier League using the actual BLM logo, whilst not really support them as a whole?

They support blacks lives matter, but not the actual black lives matter. they don’t Actually support it, but still use the symbolic logo on their shirts. 

Clear as mud. 

‘kick it out’, which is clear, concise, and inclusive of all. Obviously isn’t trendy enough without a self confessed Marxist cofounder. 

The only thing that is clear, is that they don’t support white (add any other Colour than black) lives matter. 

[aintforever]

12 minutes ago, Batman said:

Aren't the Premier League using the actual BLM logo, whilst not really support them as a whole?

Think it was designed by Troy Deeney and his Mrs.

Edited 2 July, 2020 by aintforever

[aintforever]

Just now, aintforever said:

duplicate

 

Edited 2 July, 2020 by aintforever

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

 

The phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a Twitter hashtag, a slogan, a social movement, or a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice. 

.

A swastika refers to multiple things, I'd still get sacked if I wore one out in public no matter how many times I mentioned Hinduism or Buddhism. 

[BARCELONASAINT]

out of genuine interest how many on here still play grass roots football and will, hopefully, be returning for the start of the season in September AND have thought about what they will do if this "taking the knee" is expected of them before games kick off. For me it is a huge dilemma as I am totally against any form of discrimination but I am totally against "taking the knee".

I have asked our football committee if we can discuss this subject prior to the new season kicking off as I neither want to offend anyone or back down from my principles!

Sorry if this has been discussed before. 

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

out of genuine interest how many on here still play grass roots football and will, hopefully, be returning for the start of the season in September AND have thought about what they will do if this "taking the knee" is expected of them before games kick off. For me it is a huge dilemma as I am totally against any form of discrimination but I am totally against "taking the knee".

I have asked our football committee if we can discuss this subject prior to the new season kicking off as I neither want to offend anyone or back down from my principles!

Sorry if this has been discussed before. 

My advice is not to let anyone bully you into letting go of your principles. Hopefully it will all be over by then. 

[Lighthouse]

Personally I would politely refuse and if anyone asked say that empty gesturing is not for me. If anyone objected to that I would point out that in removing my choice, you’ve essentially made the gesture completely meaningless.

 

The problem is many people won’t see it that way. If a PL player decided not to take the knee tonight for example, he’d be crucified in the press, SM and by commentators, who would completely ignore the fact that he’d already taken the knee three times previously. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Personally I would politely refuse and if anyone asked say that empty gesturing is not for me. If anyone objected to that I would point out that in removing my choice, you’ve essentially made the gesture completely meaningless.

 

The problem is many people won’t see it that way. If a PL player decided not to take the knee tonight for example, he’d be crucified in the press, SM and by commentators, who would completely ignore the fact that he’d already taken the knee three times previously. 

Would be great if a black player was the first not to do it. 

[Hockey_saint]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Would be great if a black player was the first not to do it. 

That's not going to happen is it. Tony Crews in the US has suggested that people need to make sure the idea of "black lives matter" doesn't turn into some interpretation of "black lives matter more" (I don't think he's met the screaming old white geezers here wetting their pants about it) but he's not gone as far as to say he wouldn't do it.

[Miltonaggro]

On 02/07/2020 at 09:24, Turkish said:

The guardian and BBC plus quite a few on here described the London protests as largely peaceful too.  If that's your definition of largely peaceful then both world wars were largely peaceful as well, the London bombings were largely peaceful, after all millions live in London but less than 100 people died. 

I see its now being debated if Jesus is racist because he's usually portrayed as white, just seen it labelled an image of white supremacy. I presume the LGBT will also be all over this now say it's also sexist Jesus is a man. Then there are other racist things like whitening toothpaste, milk, the British countryside, racism is everywhere. A black person cant even go for a walk in the New Forest without being subject to racism.

 

 

 

Despite what people say going to football in the 1970s and 1980s was largely peaceful and a very similar inclusive experience to the recent largely peaceful scenes in London.  For example, the coming together of Southampton and Everton fans at Highbury in July 1984 provided rapid salvation after despair and united a great many people from the so called 'north south divide' at the time - that day it didn't matter whether you were a wealthy plasterer from Chilworth or an unemployed weaver from Bootle, you were included.  On your other clearly inflammatory point, most people of my generation see the definitive Jesus Christ as Robert Powell, and I believe that he is from Manchester FFS...  

[Give it to Ron]

My walking football lot won’t be ‘taking the knee’ half won’t get up again

[notnowcato]

On 02/07/2020 at 09:24, Turkish said:

The guardian and BBC plus quite a few on here described the London protests as largely peaceful too.  If that's your definition of largely peaceful then both world wars were largely peaceful as well, the London bombings were largely peaceful, after all millions live in London but less than 100 people died. 

 

Comparing protests where 20 officers were injured to world wars and bombings where thousands lost their lives is pushing it.

I also have no issue with people debating issues such as white supremacy in art, unless you think peoples freedom of speech is now in question.

[East Kent Saint]

Andres Townsend calling out BLM Now , apart from the supporting the discrimination bit .

[Neef]

Andros Townsend:

“We were never part of a political organisation or the organisation Black Lives Matter.”

“It was merely a phrase coined together to say we want a black life to matter."

"The message is clear. We want a black life to matter just as much as any other race, not more, not less. We're not saying we're better, we're worse, we're stronger. We just want a black life to matter like any other race. I think that message is clear.”

Very well said. 

[hypochondriac]

32 minutes ago, Neef said:

Andros Townsend:

“We were never part of a political organisation or the organisation Black Lives Matter.”

“It was merely a phrase coined together to say we want a black life to matter."

"The message is clear. We want a black life to matter just as much as any other race, not more, not less. We're not saying we're better, we're worse, we're stronger. We just want a black life to matter like any other race. I think that message is clear.”

Very well said. 

The message is so clear that the Premier league and other sports have had to issue clarifications, players themselves have made concerns known and captains are talking about issuing their own statement clarifying things. Odd that they all feel the need to do that for something so clear. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

The message is so clear that the Premier league and other sports have had to issue clarifications, players themselves have made concerns known and captains are talking about issuing their own statement clarifying things. Odd that they all feel the need to do that for something so clear. 

It’s all a bit embarrassing really. Three weeks ago if anyone questioned BLM or criticised their “largely peaceful” protests you were a right wing racist absolutely lambasted for not supporting this great cause. I see some are still clinging on but it’s come down to a “well okay maybe some of them but overall it’s a good cause” still the tide is turning which is good to see.
 

Still some ridiculous stuff going on like Washington redskins under pressure to change their name, I’m surprised snooker has survived, a white ball systematically takes out all balls Of colour with the highest score for the black, you can’t get more racist then that. And don’t even get me started on golf, white balls are by far the most commonly used, another example of white supremacy 

Edited 3 July, 2020 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

It’s all a bit embarrassing really. Three weeks ago if anyone questioned BLM or criticised their “largely peaceful” protests you were a right wing racist absolutely lambasted for not supporting this great cause. I see some are still clinging on but it’s come down to a “well okay maybe some of them but overall it’s a good cause” still the tide is turning which is good to see.
 

Still some ridiculous stuff going on like Washington redskins under pressure to change their name, I’m surprised snooker has survived, a white ball systematically takes out all balls Of colour with the highest score for the black, you can’t get more racist then that. And don’t even get me started on golf, white balls are by far the most commonly used, another example of white supremacy 

Don't forget the racist wine industry 

 

 

[whelk]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Don't forget the racist wine industry 

 

 

Careful you don’t turn into Batman

[whelk]

I don’t. think I have seen any panel of pundits without a black representative of late. Micah Richards is actually decent but must be wondering why getting so much work now

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t. think I have seen any panel of pundits without a black representative of late. Micah Richards is actually decent but must be wondering why getting so much work now

I used to love the chemistry of Tiss, Merse, Tommo and Nicholas. A shame that’s basically been banned.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I used to love the chemistry of Tiss, Merse, Tommo and Nicholas. A shame that’s basically been banned.

Clinton Morrison and Glenn Johnson give fck all insight. Johnson looks like he has been forced to be there 

[SKD]

Interesting choice of words from the BT Sports presenter as the players took a knee (again... why?)

”now the players make a stand about any form

of racism”

Further distancing from the BLM movement. 
 

back to kick it out, ASAP please. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 01/07/2020 at 16:32, aintforever said:

It's good to see that the PL have clarified their Black Lives Matter slogan is not endorsing any particular group or anything political, Think most reasonably intelligent people knew this already though.

 

So why does the badge on the kit show group’s logo, note the black fist.

A ‘reasonably intelligent’ person would not call this a coincidence. 
 

 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So why does the badge on the kit show group’s logo, note the black fist.

A ‘reasonably intelligent’ person would not call this a coincidence. 
 

 

What, the logo designed by Troy Deeney and his Mrs?

[Lord Duckhunter]

That’s the one. The one with the fist used by the group BLM. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s the one. The one with the fist used by the group BLM. 

The one with a different fist that has been trademarked by Deeney?

[Turkish]

On 04/07/2020 at 07:25, hypochondriac said:

Don't forget the racist wine industry 

 

 

That article is ridiculous, typical of a posh white person trying to show how they aren’t racist. Absolutely laughable that she says she’s ashamed that until recently she didn’t know how  many black wine makers there are in South Africa and the US. Why would anyone know or even care? Talk about trying to create a problem. 

[jamesfp1]

I wonder if things would be different if the slogan used from the start was "Black Lives Matter Too". 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

I wonder if things would be different if the slogan used from the start was "Black Lives Matter Too". 

Or ‘kick it out’.

 

[jamesfp1]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Or ‘kick it out’.

 

Say No To Racism

[Red]

Don't confuse the sentiment with the politics. This is not about supporting the BLM politic group - which I admit has some dubious aims, rather this is about supporting equality for all. I have seen at close hand so called institutional racism, and it exists - from talking slowly and loudly to a black person to being asked "where are you really from" etc. etc. Maybe it was the wrong slogan, but this is not about supporting a radical or political group, rather about treating everyone as you would want to be treated yourself - but I guess that is not a catchy phrase??

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, Red said:

Don't confuse the sentiment with the politics. This is not about supporting the BLM politic group - which I admit has some dubious aims, rather this is about supporting equality for all. I have seen at close hand so called institutional racism, and it exists - from talking slowly and loudly to a black person to being asked "where are you really from" etc. etc. Maybe it was the wrong slogan, but this is not about supporting a radical or political group, rather about treating everyone as you would want to be treated yourself - but I guess that is not a catchy phrase??

Where we differ is how you describe it. I don't see the examples you gave as institutional racism, rather individual. 

[Red]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Where we differ is how you describe it. I don't see the examples you gave as institutional racism, rather individual. 

Ok whatever. The point is it happens and most of the time people do it without realising - i.e. not at all meant - which is just as hurtful. Let's just see it from the other person's viewpoint and respect all. It's not just race either - some people with red hair get tremendous abuse and bullied - why? There is absolutely no need for it, everyone is different in some way, just respect that and get on with what is at the end of the day, a short enough life. 

[Saint_clark]

33 minutes ago, Red said:

Ok whatever. The point is it happens and most of the time people do it without realising - i.e. not at all meant - which is just as hurtful. Let's just see it from the other person's viewpoint and respect all. It's not just race either - some people with red hair get tremendous abuse and bullied - why? There is absolutely no need for it, everyone is different in some way, just respect that and get on with what is at the end of the day, a short enough life. 

Why are you telling me like i'm racially abusing people 😂

There is a huge difference between institutional racism and people being individually racist. It's an important distinction to make, not just "ok whatever". My point is that the responsibility is on the individual committing the act and each act should be dealt with separately - it's not my responsibility to feel guilty, "check my privilege" or make any kind of effort to change anything because of someone else's ignorance.

Edited 6 July, 2020 by Saint_clark

[hypochondriac]

6 hours ago, Red said:

Ok whatever. The point is it happens and most of the time people do it without realising - i.e. not at all meant - which is just as hurtful. Let's just see it from the other person's viewpoint and respect all. It's not just race either - some people with red hair get tremendous abuse and bullied - why? There is absolutely no need for it, everyone is different in some way, just respect that and get on with what is at the end of the day, a short enough life. 

Are you a ginger? 

[John B]

On 28/06/2020 at 12:51, hypochondriac said:

If we were to look at stats I'd imagine that a very high proportion of stop and search candidates would happen to be male. Does that make the UK police force institutionally racist? 

Are you trying to making excuses for racist behavior of the police?

 

There is racist behavior through out British society why dont you want to stop it.

 

There is also inequality through out British society too which most people are not interested in especially the Tory Government which through its austerity programme has caused untold harm

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, John B said:

Are you trying to making excuses for racist behavior of the police?

 

There is racist behavior through out British society why dont you want to stop it.

 

There is also inequality through out British society too which most people are not interested in especially the Tory Government which through its austerity programme has caused untold harm

No I'm trying to highlight the fact that high levels of stop and search against black people are not necessarily due to racism in the same way that high levels against males are not necessarily due to sexism. 

I don't want any racism in society but I suspect our definitions of it would differ and I'd also like a sense of proportion- not chalking up every difference between races as a sign of racism.