BLM & Football

[StDunko]

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think you are intelligent enough to realise that no one is being physically forced to kneel and you know what he meant. I expect you wouldn't even get 100% of BLM supporters to agree with footballers taking a knee so football would be quite the outlier if every single footballer who plays agrees with taking the knee. The point is that thebcknseqienxesnofnnotndoibg so are so unpalatable that effectively they don't have a choice. 

To paraphrase Saintquin's post: it is the case at them moment that people are being forced to take a knee.  I think this is utter bollocks and that there is no evidence to support this view. 

I would suggest footballers are weighing up any reasons they may have for and against taking a knee and, thus far, all are choosing to do so, entirely of their own volition. 

However, I'll accept that I'm wrong if anyone can provide evidence of a footballer, who'd made a personal decision not to take the knee and was subsequently forced to do so...

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

That is exactly what you said, what the actual F does the family background got to do with the Police literally treating all minorities worse than white people? What does it have to do with people not getting jobs because of their skin colour? what does it have to do with football shouting obscenities at them? 

What do you want them to do?, be more white? 

Black kids in America from all backgrounds are literally being taught by their parents on how to not potentially anger the Police in any way so the avoid getting killed, what to wear, how to act, where to be.

What you did was victim blaming, it's like suggesting women who get raped were wearing the wrong clothes or shouldn't have got drunk. 

I'll be charitable and assume you mean on average rather than every case. High levels of fatherlessness has a huge impact for people's outcomes regardless of race but it just so happens that this level is disproportionately high for black families. Sorting that issue and the allure of gang culture and violence levels would lead to higher employment rates, increase levels of education, improve health (which incidentally would have massively decreased the risk of covid for many black people), and would have an indirect impact on relationships with the police because you would ultimately see lower levels of crime, less police encounters, less stop and search etc etc. Its simple to blame every difference on racism or white supremacy and much more difficult and less black and white (excuse the pun) to talk about the multitude of reasons for it. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

That is exactly what you said, what the actual F does the family background got to do with the Police literally treating all minorities worse than white people? What does it have to do with people not getting jobs because of their skin colour? what does it have to do with football shouting obscenities at them? 

What do you want them to do?, be more white? 

 

 

What a load of old pony.

You make the country sound like a ‘in the heat of the night’ episode. I’ve seen real racism. Where blokes are paid less because they’re black or Mexican, where blokes were openly called the N word at work, where they had to wait in the truck whilst us whiteys waited in the bar to be paid. This country is one of the most tolerant in the world, most people judge others by their character, not the colour of their skin or nationality. It’s only a tiny portion of the population that is racist, a far lower portion than you’ll find anywhere else. Some people are so desperate to see racism that they exaggerate it. Whether you like it or not, a lot of  poor white folk in the forgotten towns of this country, won’t listen to the nuances and caveats of how, of course all lives matter, or defund the police actual means XY & Z. They’ll see a load of millionaires and middle class SJW’s telling them they’re racist, they’ll contrast the reaction to their grievances with BLM. How on earth does that help racial harmony? Telling the black community all their ills are down to racism, whilst telling the poor white communities they’re racist & they’ll be treated differently, is a toxic mix that’ll only lead to more discord & more distrust.  
 

Football has a far bigger problem with homophobia than it ever has with racism, but of course pointing this out will be ‘whataboutatry’ rather than the hypocrisy that it really is.

[hypochondriac]

21 minutes ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

I live in south London so I’m more than aware of the diverse communities. The whole ignoring skin colour thing is admirable in principle but it in turn ignores the fact that white people and people of colour are not on a level playing field. This racism may be subconscious but it’s discrimination nonetheless. I don’t think anyone is advocating ignoring the things you mention but these issues stem from inequality. 

Couldn't disagree more. "white people" are not some homogenous group, we are all individuals and all have been subject to various biases to differing degrees throughout our lives. No random person can point to another random person with a different skin colour and say with any certainty that they have been subjected to a greater or lesser degree of discrimination purely due to their skin colour. You have no evidence to say that high levels of fatherlessness in black families "stems solely from inequality". Are there not cultural factors to consider that would have an independent effect on people's outcomes regardless of some inequality? The way you talk it's as if inequality is the only factor to consider and is the root of every problem or disparity between racial groups. 

Also unconscious bias is a load of pseudo scientific guff. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony.

You make the country sound like a ‘in the heat of the night’ episode. I’ve seen real racism. Where blokes are paid less because they’re black or Mexican, where blokes were openly called the N word at work, where they had to wait in the truck whilst us whiteys waited in the bar to be paid. This country is one of the most tolerant in the world, most people judge others by their character, not the colour of their skin or nationality. It’s only a tiny portion of the population that is racist, a far lower portion than you’ll find anywhere else. Some people are so desperate to see racism that they exaggerate it. Whether you like it or not, a lot of  poor white folk in the forgotten towns of this country, won’t listen to the nuances and caveats of how, of course all lives matter, or defund the police actual means XY & Z. They’ll see a load of millionaires and middle class SJW’s telling them they’re racist, they’ll contrast the reaction to their grievances with BLM. How on earth does that help racial harmony? Telling the black community all their ills are down to racism, whilst telling the poor white communities they’re racist & they’ll be treated differently, is a toxic mix that’ll only lead to more discord & more distrust.  
 

Football has a far bigger problem with homophobia than it ever has with racism, but of course pointing this out will be ‘whataboutatry’ rather than the hypocrisy that it really is.

Absolutely. The lower class labourer just scraping by and disproportionately affected by the Covid crisis is hardly going to have endless levels of sympathy for multi millionaires like Anthony Joshua or Lewis Hamilton who seek to lecture others about the ills of their ancestors whilst signing up to the latest Tommy hilfiger or Nike campaign and instructing their followers to prioritise black owned businesses. 

[iansums]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony.

You make the country sound like a ‘in the heat of the night’ episode. I’ve seen real racism. Where blokes are paid less because they’re black or Mexican, where blokes were openly called the N word at work, where they had to wait in the truck whilst us whiteys waited in the bar to be paid. This country is one of the most tolerant in the world, most people judge others by their character, not the colour of their skin or nationality. It’s only a tiny portion of the population that is racist, a far lower portion than you’ll find anywhere else. Some people are so desperate to see racism that they exaggerate it. Whether you like it or not, a lot of  poor white folk in the forgotten towns of this country, won’t listen to the nuances and caveats of how, of course all lives matter, or defund the police actual means XY & Z. They’ll see a load of millionaires and middle class SJW’s telling them they’re racist, they’ll contrast the reaction to their grievances with BLM. How on earth does that help racial harmony? Telling the black community all their ills are down to racism, whilst telling the poor white communities they’re racist & they’ll be treated differently, is a toxic mix that’ll only lead to more discord & more distrust.  
 

Football has a far bigger problem with homophobia than it ever has with racism, but of course pointing this out will be ‘whataboutatry’ rather than the hypocrisy that it really is.

This. And if we were go back 50 years we would see how far things have improved, we shouldn’t be complacent and should call our racism where we see it but in time things will get better still.

[Baird of the land]

There’s clearly pressure to conform in these scenarios. I doubt anyone feels a strong negative to suffer the abuse McLean gets for refusing to bow the politicized poppies event. I do this rite by this point is rapidly losing impact.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Couldn't disagree more. "white people" are not some homogenous group, we are all individuals and all have been subject to various biases to differing degrees throughout my life. No random person can point to another random person with a different skin colour and say with any certainty that they have been subjected to a greater or lesser degree of discrimination purely due to their skin colour. You have no evidence to say that high levels of fatherlessness in black families "stems from inequality". Are there not cultural factors to consider that would have an independent effect on people's outcomes regardless of some inequality? The way you talk it's as if inequality is the only factor to consider and is the root of every problem or disparity between racial groups. 

Also unconscious bias is a load of pseudo scientific guff. 

Funnily enough, I couldn’t disagree more with what you’ve said and I’m guessing we are never going to agree. 

I’m not saying inequality is the only factor obviously, but I am saying that it is the root of the vast majority of the issues. 

[East Kent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony.

You make the country sound like a ‘in the heat of the night’ episode. I’ve seen real racism. Where blokes are paid less because they’re black or Mexican, where blokes were openly called the N word at work, where they had to wait in the truck whilst us whiteys waited in the bar to be paid. This country is one of the most tolerant in the world, most people judge others by their character, not the colour of their skin or nationality. It’s only a tiny portion of the population that is racist, a far lower portion than you’ll find anywhere else. Some people are so desperate to see racism that they exaggerate it. Whether you like it or not, a lot of  poor white folk in the forgotten towns of this country, won’t listen to the nuances and caveats of how, of course all lives matter, or defund the police actual means XY & Z. They’ll see a load of millionaires and middle class SJW’s telling them they’re racist, they’ll contrast the reaction to their grievances with BLM. How on earth does that help racial harmony? Telling the black community all their ills are down to racism, whilst telling the poor white communities they’re racist & they’ll be treated differently, is a toxic mix that’ll only lead to more discord & more distrust.  
 

Football has a far bigger problem with homophobia than it ever has with racism, but of course pointing this out will be ‘whataboutatry’ rather than the hypocrisy that it really is.

Er , everything I’ve read /heard about racism in football from footballers to coaches to managers etc says racism has been the normal for decades as well as homophobia. It still exists now in both cases . We all remember the stereotypes of black players not wanting to get stuck in and the fact that only 2 players have declared they are gay , one who committed suicide.

 

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, iansums said:

This. And if we were go back 50 years we would see how far things have improved, we shouldn’t be complacent and should call our racism where we see it but in time things will get better still.

Things have progressed to the point that legal rights are now equal and mistreatment by police - especially the UK- is dealt with harshly regardless of the skin colour of the victim which is exactly how it should be. So now because there's no overt examples of racism that aren't challenged and cracked down on immediately (as it should be) campaigners have to go searching for covert forms so any disparities between black and white people is due to racism and discrimination, unconscious bias theory has popped up which is essentially the original sin of white people that can only be cleansed by obvious outward signs of your opposition to racism, public atonement for your transgressions and the castigation of dissenters who are not as vociferous as you are in their condemnation. 

Individuals are no longer condemned for what they say because everyone knows that racism is unacceptable so now you have to read intent into what someone has said so what someone says is racist anyway even if it was not designed to be and even if they repeatedly call for equal rights for all because everyone knows that's what real nazis want. It's no longer good enough to call for a time where skin colour is not an importance like Dr King, its now very important to prioritise black businesses and make the colour of your skin your defining characteristic because white silence is violence and a constant awareness of your skin colour at all times is a requirement for living in modern society. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

Remember this when you see the BLM logo on our shirts today. These are the people the Premier league are endorsing.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

26 minutes ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

Funnily enough, I couldn’t disagree more with what you’ve said and I’m guessing we are never going to agree. 

I’m not saying inequality is the only factor obviously, but I am saying that it is the root of the vast majority of the issues. 

Sorry but I don't think either of us will find common ground here I'm afraid but at least we can have a civil discussion about it. I consider there to be a multitude of factors which cause disparities in outcomes and that even with equality being assured you'd still end up with big inequalities eventually because that's human nature. It's a bit like when people continually complain about the much higher number of females who do jobs that require care.Female, male, cultural norms, testosterone levels, intelligence, strength, personality, biology and yes discriminstion and in some cases racism, all of these factors will have an impact on outcomes and its not controversial to say that where issues exist within various communities, it is helpful to look at the responsibilities they have for sorting issues alongside looking at how wider society etc can assist.

I used the lower working class example earlier because I have to deal with a lot of these people all the time. Many white working class families have poor outcomes for their children because they do the wrong things, do not parent correctly and end up with messed up offspring as a result. Society can help to an extent, but the most successful are those who engage with help, take some responsibility for their lives and do what they need to do to improve the life chances of themselves and their children. In a number of cases- not all but a number- blaming some sort of racist system or all white people being racist and keeping all differently coloured people down is an abdication of personal responsibility and an easy way to avoid taking responsibility for your own failings. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

47 minutes ago, StDunko said:

To paraphrase Saintquin's post: it is the case at them moment that people are being forced to take a knee.  I think this is utter bollocks and that there is no evidence to support this view. 

I would suggest footballers are weighing up any reasons they may have for and against taking a knee and, thus far, all are choosing to do so, entirely of their own volition. 

However, I'll accept that I'm wrong if anyone can provide evidence of a footballer, who'd made a personal decision not to take the knee and was subsequently forced to do so...

You've chosen to be obtuse and engage in pedantry then. Everyone else knows what he meant. To deliberately exagerrate things to make the point clearer: if a thief broke into your house and said give me your watch or I'm going to burn your house down, technically you had a choice there and technically no one forced you to give him your watch but the dire consequences of choosing not to effectively gave you no option. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[East Kent Saint]

38 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Remember this when you see the BLM logo on our shirts today. These are the people the Premier league are endorsing.

 

 

 

[East Kent Saint]

Both statements are incorrect and not really about BLM but this is modern social media soundbite point scoring .

[hypochondriac]

Just now, East Kent Saint said:

Both statements are incorrect and not really about BLM but this is modern social media soundbite point scoring .

Why are all these posters telling us definitively what black lives matter is all about when what appear to be official mouthpieces for black lives matter are all over the radio and accross social media saying something different? 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Hold on. Is there a disproportionate problem with violence (in particular black on black violence) in the UK black community or not? That's not ignoring violence from other communities, it's stating a fact. Its irresponsible to discuss problems and how to solve them whilst avoiding clear issues for fear of appearing racist. That's how you end up in appalling situations like Pakistani rape gangs in the North. 

Lawlessness should be treated as lawlessness no matter who commits the crimes. As soon as you start putting labels on you move into the territory of racism. As we know, there is a far right activist whose name I can’t use because you will call me obsessed again who only bothers about rape if it involves Muslim men. The average law breaker in this country is still a British, white male, but that isn’t important because once again it is all about labels. 

As long as we continue to apply labels, racial stereotyping will not disappear. The whole point of the BLM is to treat people equally. To do that you must stop doing exactly what you do on a regular basis and that is to divide people up into tidy little groups.

 

 

 

 

 

[iansums]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Lawlessness should be treated as lawlessness no matter who commits the crimes. As soon as you start putting labels on you move into the territory of racism. As we know, there is a far right activist whose name I can’t use because you will call me obsessed again who only bothers about rape if it involves Muslim men. The average law breaker in this country is still a British, white male, but that isn’t important because once again it is all about labels. 

As long as we continue to apply labels, racial stereotyping will not disappear. The whole point of the BLM is to treat people equally. To do that you must stop doing exactly what you do on a regular basis and that is to divide people up into tidy little groups.

 

 

 

 

 

That last paragraph is a complete contradiction, BLM by its very name defines a specific group i.e. ‘black’, if it were to treat all people equally then it would be All Lives Matter. That is not their aim anyway, read what the stated aims of the organisation really are.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Lawlessness should be treated as lawlessness no matter who commits the crimes. As soon as you start putting labels on you move into the territory of racism. As we know, there is a far right activist whose name I can’t use because you will call me obsessed again who only bothers about rape if it involves Muslim men. The average law breaker in this country is still a British, white male, but that isn’t important because once again it is all about labels. 

As long as we continue to apply labels, racial stereotyping will not disappear. The whole point of the BLM is to treat people equally. To do that you must stop doing exactly what you do on a regular basis and that is to divide people up into tidy little groups.

 

 

 

 

 

OK then so let's imagine a hypothetical scenario here. Let's suppose that Japan had a large group of Caucasian Western Europeans in their country for some reason and they'd lived there for a number of generations. Let's say that those Western Europeans were killing or being violent towards each other and the Japanese at an alarmingly high rate. In your mind, it wouldn't be possible to look into this issue to see if there are reasons for this phenomenon because that would be racism, even if by looking into it we could make specific plans tailored to best meet the problems within the Caucasian Western European community living in Japan. Even if the violence from these Europeans was causing a spike in violence nationally, rather than looking for causes we would have to treat all violence exactly the same way? Even allowing for the ridiculous hypothetical can you see how nuts that sounds? 

Also "we should treat everyone equally" by specifically singling out black identity and uplifting their voices in particular? Or taking time to support a business owned by someone with black skin? Or having a quota system so that you have a minimum number of black people employed at your business? I've been calling for individuals not be grouped into boxes based on their racial identities since the start of this thing and it seems like you agree. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[The Cat]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why are all these posters telling us definitively what black lives matter is all about when what appear to be official mouthpieces for black lives matter are all over the radio and accross social media saying something different? 

I imagine most people who support the basic sentiment of BLM are unaware of the fact they are campaigning on other issues too.

It's somewhat different, but do people who would state they are Tory or Labour supporters back every policy in their manifestos? 

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I imagine most people who support the basic sentiment of BLM are unaware of the fact they are campaigning on other issues too.

It's somewhat different, but do people who would state they are Tory or Labour supporters back every policy in their manifestos? 

I agree with you that many/most will be unaware of the deeper meaning to a lot of this which if anything makes it worse. It's not about agreeing with "every policy" though but these are a couple of fundamental planks of their reason for existing as stated on their website, in their fundraising and across social media. It does seem that some people are attempting to exploit the goodwill and the obvious agreement of the vast vast majority for something that shouldn't have to be stated like black lives mattering in order to push their own particular brand of far left politics. That worry is only confirmed with things tweeted by the black lives matter UK twitter page and all the rest of it. It's a bit difficult to say that black lives matter is only about black lives mattering and nothing else when all of the available evidence suggests otherwise. 

I certainly don't want the black lives matter organisation to appear to have the illusion of more weight behind their views than the reality when figureheads purporting to represent them point to the numbers supporting them and then call for far left policies or things such as abolishing capitalism or condemning Israel. People are attempting to utilise that ambiguity for their own ends and its why its dodgy ground for people like the Premier league to be so puploc in their support but opposition would have been met with such a level of criticism that it isn't worth it. 

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

Football had its own anti racism vehicle ‘kick  it out’. That could have been on their shirts, and on badges of TV bods. They’ve now thrown their lot in with a political organisation with some extreme views. They’ll come to regret this. 

[SaintsFan86]

why is this a thread, Everyone knows what it means, and signifies. Just opens up discussion for racists. End.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

why is this a thread, Everyone knows what it means, and signifies. Just opens up discussion for racists. End.

Because people have different opinions and because it's good for highlighting those who can't tolerate them. You for example. 

[Nolan]

4 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Both statements are incorrect and not really about BLM but this is modern social media soundbite point scoring .

Except that the blue ticked "black lives matter" account posted it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

23 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Except that the blue ticked "black lives matter" account posted it.

The Oxford BLM official group also posted today, the mural that even Jeremy Corbyn admitted was anti Semitic. Enough is clearly not enough, when it comes to certain minorities. 

[East Kent Saint]

51 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Oxford BLM official group also posted today, the mural that even Jeremy Corbyn admitted was anti Semitic. Enough is clearly not enough, when it comes to certain minorities. 

Crazy , it will soon fizzle out if they keep posting this sort of stuff . 

[saintquin]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

You've chosen to be obtuse and engage in pedantry then. Everyone else knows what he meant. To deliberately exagerrate things to make the point clearer: if a thief broke into your house and said give me your watch or I'm going to burn your house down, technically you had a choice there and technically no one forced you to give him your watch but the dire consequences of choosing not to effectively gave you no option. 

You've pretty much answered him for me, TA.

Think you're right, he knows full well I didn't mean they've got a gun against their heads!

[tajjuk]

7 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony.

Yes that is an apt description of what you just said.

7 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Remember this when you see the BLM logo on our shirts today. These are the people the Premier league are endorsing.

 

 

Odd that the campaign for anti-semitism doesn't note the fact that annexation of territories and conquest of territories are forbidden by the UN charter, which they seem to be happy quoting there, I am presuming they have not read that part. 

This is about the actions of Israel as a nation state, actions that should rightly be criticism rather than being wrongly classed as anti-semitism, what they are doing/have done in the West Bank is fundamentally wrong and their plans for annexation of the West Bank, is also fundamentally wrong. 

It's also against International Law. 

Zionism in itself is promoting the confiscation of land that is disputed and occupied by other people, its fundamentally against what the UN stands for and anti-zionism, is not antisemitism. It's being against Israel illegally taking land that does not belong to them, which is basically being against war, conflict and acts of aggression to take land, also known as colonalism.  

Also where is the 'self determination' of the Palestinian people, who are basically getting forcefully taken over by Israel, that statement by the campaign for anti-semitism seems rather hypocritical. 

So there really is nothing actually wrong with that statement by BLM there, because also particularly in the US, very powerful lobby groups push the agenda of Israel using basically legally bribery.

And when people have spoken out about this, for example when congresswoman Ilhan Omar spoke about Isreali lobby groups pushing pro-Isreali policies, she got called an anti-semite, often surprise surprise by people funded by that lobby group. 

So that tweet is not anti-semitic and its also correct, the Isreali plans to annex the west bank are illegal and are basic colonialism against the UN charter and when people try to criticise pro-isreali influences in US and European democracies, they get called anti-semites, despite it being a criticism of Israel the STATE, not the Jewish people as a whole. 

 

[hypochondriac]

The tweet is ridiculous because it should not be the purview of the group regardless of how correct you believe the view is. Why on Earth is the black lives matter organisation getting involved and giving opinions on West Bank politics and Israel? I mean we all know why they are because the mouthpieces for these organisations are the same types of people who are Jeremy Corbyn supporters leading momentum but we have been told by posters on here repeatedly that black lives matter is solely and exclusively about black lives mattering.

Edited 28 June, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

Yes that is an apt description of what you just said.

Odd that the campaign for anti-semitism doesn't note the fact that annexation of territories and conquest of territories are forbidden by the UN charter, which they seem to be happy quoting there, I am presuming they have not read that part. 

This is about the actions of Israel as a nation state, actions that should rightly be criticism rather than being wrongly classed as anti-semitism, what they are doing/have done in the West Bank is fundamentally wrong and their plans for annexation of the West Bank, is also fundamentally wrong. 

It's also against International Law. 

Zionism in itself is promoting the confiscation of land that is disputed and occupied by other people, its fundamentally against what the UN stands for and anti-zionism, is not antisemitism. It's being against Israel illegally taking land that does not belong to them, which is basically being against war, conflict and acts of aggression to take land, also known as colonalism.  

Also where is the 'self determination' of the Palestinian people, who are basically getting forcefully taken over by Israel, that statement by the campaign for anti-semitism seems rather hypocritical. 

So there really is nothing actually wrong with that statement by BLM there, because also particularly in the US, very powerful lobby groups push the agenda of Israel using basically legally bribery.

And when people have spoken out about this, for example when congresswoman Ilhan Omar spoke about Isreali lobby groups pushing pro-Isreali policies, she got called an anti-semite, often surprise surprise by people funded by that lobby group. 

So that tweet is not anti-semitic and its also correct, the Isreali plans to annex the west bank are illegal and are basic colonialism against the UN charter and when people try to criticise pro-isreali influences in US and European democracies, they get called anti-semites, despite it being a criticism of Israel the STATE, not the Jewish people as a whole. 

 

Well Dr King disagrees with you. But what did he know about racism eh.

 

 

 

 

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Well Dr King disagrees with you. But what did he know about racism eh.

 

 

 

 

The appeal to authority is fallacious, and Israel is a settler colonialist apartheid state that murders journalists, health-workers, and children. 

[aintforever]

Some Jews are anti-zionists, How can you have ant-Semitic Jews?

[aintforever]

I think it’s great that the lads took the knee today. It has been fantastic how the whole football community has stood together on this, ether you think the UK has a problem or not it has to be a positive.

Must really get up the nose of those racists among us.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s really great that some people have called out the BLM movement for their anti Semitic posts today.
 

Must really get up the nose of the anti semites amongst us. 

[Turkish]

Wonder what our leading anti racists will think of this.....

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Wonder what our leading anti racists will think of this.....

She has more balls than any player in the EPL for sure.

[Nolan]

Great that at least one woman has looked up and found that the words "black lives matter" and the group that have taken up the ownership of the phrase "black lives matter" are two very distinct things.

 

The words can't be argued with. The group most certainly can.

 

Edited 29 June, 2020 by Nolan

[SKD]

The premier league have back themselves into a corner with this one. They never should have brought politics into football. Imagine they now don’t have the poppy come November..... 
 

also, when does it stop? BLM haven’t really been forth coming of ideas / solutions. Do we just have them taking the knee forever more? 
 

I for one, will not be pumping any more money into this club whilst it continues and I hope many others do the same. 

[CB Fry]

35 minutes ago, SKD said:

The premier league have back themselves into a corner with this one. They never should have brought politics into football. Imagine they now don’t have the poppy come November..... 
 

also, when does it stop? BLM haven’t really been forth coming of ideas / solutions. Do we just have them taking the knee forever more? 
 

I for one, will not be pumping any more money into this club whilst it continues and I hope many others do the same. 

Why would they not have the poppy come November? The Legion are absolutely in bed with the Premier League and there is full-on poppy mania every year without fail.

I'm not sure why you are "imagining" things that absolutely won't happen.

Dry your bed sheets mate.

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, Nolan said:

Great that at least one woman has looked up and found that the words "black lives matter" and the group that have taken up the ownership of the phrase "black lives matter" are two very distinct things.

 

The words can't be argued with. The group most certainly can.

 

I think it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that they are just showing solidarity with the Americans over the George Floyd thing and standing up against racism.

Or maybe SkyTV, the Premier League and a host of other big companies have suddenly become Marxist supporters

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I think it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that they are just showing solidarity with the Americans over the George Floyd thing and standing up against racism.

Or maybe SkyTV, the Premier League and a host of other big companies have suddenly become Marxist supporters

Obvious to everyone apart from the black lives matter website, their verified twitter accounts, their fundraising pages, the spokespeople who have been all over the media, activists on social media, the banners at the protests, the interviews from people at the protests and High profile celebrities like Anthony Joshua. Other than that it's obvious I agree. 

[East Kent Saint]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

Sort of explains the confusion !  The Prem may need to clarify what it is supporting , Starmer has just clarified his support for the George Floyd part and not the defund police etc .

[Ashby Saint]

Why is this thread on the main Saints board as it is clearly a topic that should be placed in the Lounge?  There are quite a few posters on this thread, who I respect for their views on the Saints, but it is evident that I want to know as little about their wider political views as possible.    

[SKD]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Why would they not have the poppy come November? The Legion are absolutely in bed with the Premier League and there is full-on poppy mania every year without fail.

I'm not sure why you are "imagining" things that absolutely won't happen.

Dry your bed sheets mate.

I thought I had seen it had been banned, just checked again and it was for internationals, not PL. 

[aintforever]

52 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Obvious to everyone apart from the black lives matter website, their verified twitter accounts, their fundraising pages, the spokespeople who have been all over the media, activists on social media, the banners at the protests, the interviews from people at the protests and High profile celebrities like Anthony Joshua. Other than that it's obvious I agree. 

Maybe if you bothered to even read what the players said:

"We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether.

I will help you out, the clue is in the “singular objective” bit, and no mention of Marxism anywhere.

Edited 29 June, 2020 by aintforever

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

Wonder what our leading anti racists will think of this.....

There are several images out there of players at different matches standing rather than kneeling during "The Star Spangled Banner", she is not the only one.

[Stubby]

33 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Maybe if you bothered to even read what the players said:

"We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether.

I will help you out, the clue is in the “singular objective” bit, and no mention of Marxism anywhere.

I've been a bit reluctant to get involved in this thread because it generates much more heat than light, but I will say this: a statement put out on behalf of all players does not represent the views of all players.

[SKD]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I've been a bit reluctant to get involved in this thread because it generates much more heat than light, but I will say this: a statement put out on behalf of all players does not represent the views of all players.

Exactly. Imagine a player decides for whatever reason they do not agree with the BLM movement (there’s plenty of reasons... vandalism, left wing Marxism being 2), and decide to not take the knee. The media will destroy them. 
 

they are being forced to take the knee and it’s a disgrace they’ve been put in this position. 

[CB Fry]

In the same way that the originator of the Thursday clapping thing came out and gave permission for everyone to stop, I think BLM need to do something similar.

We've reached the point where the purpose of "awareness" has been achieved. Taking the knee at every match for infinity is not going to actually achieve anything, it's not going make people any more "aware". BLM/Premier League/Kick it out/etc need to agree some actual tangible actions from here, including lobbying the government.