Re-examining and learning from history

[Earthworm Jim]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The RAF have removed the headstone fron Guy Gbson's dog's grave because it was called Nigger. Is this an insult to one of their greatest wartime commanders ?

 

[rallyboy]

This thread is hilarious!

It appears to have been comically-hijacked by loads of forum parody characters trying to outdo each other by pretending they believe the most ludicrous things just to generate indignation in others - keep up the good work - you bunch of pinko, remoaning, leftie, sandal-wearing, trolling, self-loathing, Nazi-sympathising, Corbynista, anti-dog, Marxist, terrorist-hugging, history-rewriting, all lives mattering, country-hating, statue-bothering snowflakes!

🤣

 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

10 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Yes, I fear all of those famous N-word statuez in Compton are going to be politely removed by concerned Klan members. 

I'd like to think we can all agree that while a black dog that airmen abused as cheap entertainment by getting it drunk and laughing at, was acceptable 75 years ago, in 2020 one might observe that it's treatment and name wasn't our finest hour.

The famous dog should still be remembered, but persisting in celebrating its 'once-amusing' name when society has evolved, merely courts controversy and distracts from the incredible achievements of Gibson and his crews. 

 

An amazingly sensible post. There is hope for this place yet!

[badgerx16]

36 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

An amazingly sensible post. There is hope for this place yet!

Nobody on here, ( I hope ), would think to use the 'N word' as an insult, or agree with the sentiments it evokes. However, the dog's name is a fact, the use of it as a code-word during Operation Chastise is a fact; as much so as the facts that the planes used were Avro Lancasters, and that they had the mid upper gun  turrets removed to facilitate carrying the bouncing bombs. Rather than rewrite or erase the bits of history we might now disagree with, it is better to understand why it is now inappropriate to use the word, and to ensure that such attitudes never arise again.

[Weston Super Saint]

Why aren't there any more Black Lives Matter / kick it out / anti racism protests?  It seems weird that a movement which resonated so deeply to so many people just 6 weeks ago, spurring tens of thousands of people to attend protest marches up and down the country, should fizzle out so quickly.  It's almost like a skate hero to zero swingometer.

Does this mean that we have now beaten racism in the UK so marches are no longer needed?

Or has the need for virtue signalling finished and 99% of the protest marchers are happy to go back to their white priveledge lives safe in the knowledge that they have 'done their bit'?

[hypochondriac]

 

 

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why aren't there any more Black Lives Matter / kick it out / anti racism protests?  It seems weird that a movement which resonated so deeply to so many people just 6 weeks ago, spurring tens of thousands of people to attend protest marches up and down the country, should fizzle out so quickly.  It's almost like a skate hero to zero swingometer.

Does this mean that we have now beaten racism in the UK so marches are no longer needed?

Or has the need for virtue signalling finished and 99% of the protest marchers are happy to go back to their white priveledge lives safe in the knowledge that they have 'done their bit'?

I called it. White milennials in general have a short attention span and whilst they love a bit of virtue signalling, they flit between the cause of that week with ease and leave the old ones behind. I'm glad it's mostly over and will be looked on with bemusement and mirth in a few years- a cabin fever delusion exacerbated by lockdown. 

[whelk]

25 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why aren't there any more Black Lives Matter / kick it out / anti racism protests?  It seems weird that a movement which resonated so deeply to so many people just 6 weeks ago, spurring tens of thousands of people to attend protest marches up and down the country, should fizzle out so quickly.  It's almost like a skate hero to zero swingometer.

Does this mean that we have now beaten racism in the UK so marches are no longer needed?

Or has the need for virtue signalling finished and 99% of the protest marchers are happy to go back to their white priveledge lives safe in the knowledge that they have 'done their bit'?

What tangible changes were you expecting? Were you hoping everyone would offer to house your beloved gypsies?

You can chalk this to another march that didn’t do anything.if you were expecting immediate law changes but not overly surprised you don’t understand how change works. 

[Raging Bull]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why aren't there any more Black Lives Matter / kick it out / anti racism protests?  It seems weird that a movement which resonated so deeply to so many people just 6 weeks ago, spurring tens of thousands of people to attend protest marches up and down the country, should fizzle out so quickly.  It's almost like a skate hero to zero swingometer.

Does this mean that we have now beaten racism in the UK so marches are no longer needed?

Or has the need for virtue signalling finished and 99% of the protest marchers are happy to go back to their white priveledge lives safe in the knowledge that they have 'done their bit'?

The self righteous snowflakes are back playing fortnite again, close to mummies apron strings

Edited 18 July, 2020 by Raging Bull

[CB Fry]

Personally I am looking forward to an update on Duckhunter's campaign to end the scourge of international modern-day slavery.

I would think by now he will have set up a campaign headquarters, website and have a plan to build awareness to governments around the world. If not that far he must have done a bit of fundraising or at least put some leaflets on his local pub's tables.

Because he was so awfully concerned about that very real issue and in absolutely no way was he using it as a stick to beat the brown man in charge of London that he didn't like.

I await campaign updates with interest.

[Turkish]

13 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

An amazingly sensible post. There is hope for this place yet!

It’s funny isn’t it, you’re, moaning on here, you’re moaning on TUI, in fact it’s got so bad on there Nick has started deleting posts and threads with your incessant  whining And preaching on with you hijacking every single frigging thread. Yet you insist the problem is everyone else, ever thought it might be you?

[sadoldgit]

Yet at the time certain people were questioning why there were so many marches each week? I suppose the minute Premiership players stop taking the knee we will get told again that the campaign is over when it has clearly only just begun.
 

 

[sadoldgit]

16 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody on here, ( I hope ), would think to use the 'N word' as an insult, or agree with the sentiments it evokes. However, the dog's name is a fact, the use of it as a code-word during Operation Chastise is a fact; as much so as the facts that the planes used were Avro Lancasters, and that they had the mid upper gun  turrets removed to facilitate carrying the bouncing bombs. Rather than rewrite or erase the bits of history we might now disagree with, it is better to understand why it is now inappropriate to use the word, and to ensure that such attitudes never arise again.

A fact it is, as it is a fact that it is a derogatory term for black people and giving that name to a black dog, even back then, was hardly the best idea. We don’t need to keep watching the Black and White Minstrels going to remind us of how offensive blackface is. History has recorded that Guy Gibson had a black dog which was named after a derogatory name for black people. Do we need to have it spelt out to us in order to learn lessons?

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

What tangible changes were you expecting? Were you hoping everyone would offer to house your beloved gypsies?

You can chalk this to another march that didn’t do anything.if you were expecting immediate law changes but not overly surprised you don’t understand how change works. 

I wasn't expecting any tangible changes.  I believe I even stated that the protests were 'pointless' in that respect at the time.

Why on earth would there be law changes, we already have laws that protect against racism.  They don't need to be changed.

[Weston Super Saint]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A fact it is, as it is a fact that it is a derogatory term for black people and giving that name to a black dog, even back then, was hardly the best idea. We don’t need to keep watching the Black and White Minstrels going to remind us of how offensive blackface is. History has recorded that Guy Gibson had a black dog which was named after a derogatory name for black people. Do we need to have it spelt out to us in order to learn lessons?

I wonder how many people in the country actually knew that there was a headstone in a graveyard in Wales that had the dog's name on it before yesterday?  I didn't and I doubt more than a huundred people in the whole of the UK knew before it was plastered on the news.  It's caused zero harm for over 50 years.

[badgerx16]

22 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A fact it is, as it is a fact that it is a derogatory term for black people and giving that name to a black dog, even back then, was hardly the best idea. We don’t need to keep watching the Black and White Minstrels going to remind us of how offensive blackface is. History has recorded that Guy Gibson had a black dog which was named after a derogatory name for black people. Do we need to have it spelt out to us in order to learn lessons?

 

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I wonder how many people in the country actually knew that there was a headstone in a graveyard in Wales that had the dog's name on it before yesterday?  I didn't and I doubt more than a huundred people in the whole of the UK knew before it was plastered on the news.  It's caused zero harm for over 50 years.

Six miles northeast (ish) of my house is the site of Sambo's grave in Sunderland Point, on the Lune estuary. Sambo was a 'coloured' cabin boy who served the captain of a ship that anchored there, and a few days later Sambo died. Should his headstone be removed ?

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Six miles northeast (ish) of my house is the site of Sambo's grave in Sunderland Point, on the Lune estuary. Sambo was a 'coloured' cabin boy who served the captain of a ship that anchored there, and a few days later Sambo died. Should his headstone be removed ?

Being serious, if you brought it to the attention of a paper and made enough noise about it on social media you could easily get it removed or changed. 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Six miles northeast (ish) of my house is the site of Sambo's grave in Sunderland Point, on the Lune estuary. Sambo was a 'coloured' cabin boy who served the captain of a ship that anchored there, and a few days later Sambo died. Should his headstone be removed ?

It'll be fine, different rules up North

[badgerx16]

15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It'll be fine, different rules up North

True. It's not an issue of 'black' or 'white', what's more important is whether you are on the dark side of the Pennines, ( east ), or on God's side, ( west ).

Edited 19 July, 2020 by badgerx16
missing "'s"

[Weston Super Saint]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

True. It not an issue of 'black' or 'white', what's more important is whether you are on the dark side of the Pennines, ( east ), or on God's side, ( west ).

It was West for five years for me.  I did spend six months 'East' though during the summer.  It rained every single day.  Miserable.

[st.bangkok]

On 17/07/2020 at 17:22, hypochondriac said:

Blimey. I don't agree with him but that's a bit much! 

The truth is often seen as harsh. 

[aintforever]

On 18/07/2020 at 07:32, hypochondriac said:

 

 

I called it. White milennials in general have a short attention span and whilst they love a bit of virtue signalling, they flit between the cause of that week with ease and leave the old ones behind. I'm glad it's mostly over and will be looked on with bemusement and mirth in a few years- a cabin fever delusion exacerbated by lockdown. 

To be fair, the guys who gave your statue protector pals a thorough kicking outside Waterloo didn't look like 'White Millennials'.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

To be fair, the guys who gave your statue protector pals a thorough kicking outside Waterloo didn't look like 'White Millennials'.

I get that you're sore that Marxist protests didn't bring about the glorious people's revolution that you hoped it would so I'll excuse your lashing out. It must be a difficult time for you. 

[buctootim]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I get that you're sore that Marxist protests didn't bring about the glorious people's revolution that you hoped it would so I'll excuse your lashing out. It must be a difficult time for you. 

Congratulations on your ascent to fully fledged caricature. 

[buctootim]

On 19/07/2020 at 08:40, Weston Super Saint said:

It was West for five years for me.  I did spend six months 'East' though during the summer.  It rained every single day.  Miserable.

The East is drier though....

[aintforever]

16 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I get that you're sore that Marxist protests didn't bring about the glorious people's revolution that you hoped it would so I'll excuse your lashing out. It must be a difficult time for you. 

Marxist revolution - Brilliant!

Led by SkyTV, millionaire footballers, F1 and the ECB.

[Wes Tender]

55 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Marxist revolution - Brilliant!

Led by SkyTV, millionaire footballers, F1 and the ECB.

Of course, it wasn't led by them. They were the woke patsies who jumped onto the bandwagon without delving into who had hijacked a worthy cause to promote their Marxist agenda.

 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Marxist revolution - Brilliant!

Led by SkyTV, millionaire footballers, F1 and the ECB.

TBH I think they're well aware that none of these protests are going to change anything and they're happy just to pay them lip service in countries where they won't offend any actual racists. 

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

TBH I think they're well aware that none of these protests are going to change anything and they're happy just to pay them lip service in countries where they won't offend any actual racists. 

Correct. 

[hypochondriac]

Just bizarre: 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

On 18/07/2020 at 13:34, Weston Super Saint said:

I wonder how many people in the country actually knew that there was a headstone in a graveyard in Wales that had the dog's name on it before yesterday?  I didn't and I doubt more than a huundred people in the whole of the UK knew before it was plastered on the news.  It's caused zero harm for over 50 years.

Did you stop to consider that it did zero harm for so long because so few people knew about it? Now that more people know about it is more of a problem. Funny that.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just bizarre: 

 

 

Yep.  

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Did you stop to consider that it did zero harm for so long because so few people knew about it? Now that more people know about it is more of a problem. Funny that.

Did you stop to consider what 'harm' means?  Now that more people know about it, I'm sure there will be absolute hysteria from all those looking for a new cause now that they've given up protesting!

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Did you stop to consider what 'harm' means?  Now that more people know about it, I'm sure there will be absolute hysteria from all those looking for a new cause now that they've given up protesting!

Ever since I first heard about this, I haven't been able to sleep at night, raging at the knowledge that somewhere in some remote churchyard in Wales, there is a headstone with a derogatory term for blacks engraved on it. I can't sleep at night because I'm feeling so woke about it.

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Just bizarre: 

 

 

https://pjmedia.com/columns/matt-margolis/2020/07/20/the-associated-press-stylebook-is-now-officially-racist-n664984

A reasoned response to this gormlessly woke idiot john daniszewski.

I decided that his name should not be in capitals, as he is a nobody, therefore not entitled to have capitals which would make him appear more important.

Where he is apparently the Vice President for Standards, presumably they missed out the "falling" between "for" and "Standards".

[aintforever]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

TBH I think they're well aware that none of these protests are going to change anything and they're happy just to pay them lip service in countries where they won't offend any actual racists. 

Or like most intelligent, reasonable people they agree with the importance of the message and understand that the political views of some of those involved are an irrelevance.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Or like most intelligent, reasonable people they agree with the importance of the message and understand that the political views of some of those involved are an irrelevance.

Most intelligent and reasonable people would agree with the message but it’s importance becomes less and less by the week. Back in the 70s, movements like this would have changed people hearts and minds and changed racism from being broadly acceptable to antisocial and eventually a crime. Given that the message has been out there for so long, anyone not adhering to it is quite clearly choosing not to. As such, simply repeating it with a few badges and empty gestures won’t change anything.

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Most intelligent and reasonable people would agree with the message but it’s importance becomes less and less by the week. Back in the 70s, movements like this would have changed people hearts and minds and changed racism from being broadly acceptable to antisocial and eventually a crime. Given that the message has been out there for so long, anyone not adhering to it is quite clearly choosing not to. As such, simply repeating it with a few badges and empty gestures won’t change anything.

I doubt it will change much but where is the harm in repeating a good message?

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I doubt it will change much but where is the harm in repeating a good message?

There no harm in it but I also see little benefit. My disagreement lies with the enforced participation, such as players kneeling before a game and the aggressive stance Hamilton is taking with other drivers.

[aintforever]

41 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

There no harm in it but I also see little benefit. My disagreement lies with the enforced participation, such as players kneeling before a game and the aggressive stance Hamilton is taking with other drivers.

No one is forced to do anything.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Did you stop to consider that it did zero harm for so long because so few people knew about it? Now that more people know about it is more of a problem. Funny that.

It did no harm, and keeping it would have continued to do absolutely zero harm.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Did you stop to consider that it did zero harm for so long because so few people knew about it? Now that more people know about it is more of a problem. Funny that.

What harm is it doing? 

[Lighthouse]

38 minutes ago, aintforever said:

No one is forced to do anything.

So a Premier League footballer could choose not to kneel and not face any negative consequences?

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

What harm is it doing? 

I didn’t say it was causing harm, I said it had caused a problem, hence the name being removed. Perhaps if your were black you might see the situation differently? Have you realised that racism is still a problem in professional football yet?

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I didn’t say it was causing harm, I said it had caused a problem, hence the name being removed. Perhaps if your were black you might see the situation differently? Have you realised that racism is still a problem in professional football yet?

You said it did zero harm because not many people knew about it. The inference is that once more people know about it, the harm would increase. It causes zero harm no matter how many people know about it. 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

So a Premier League footballer could choose not to kneel and not face any negative consequences?

A few angry comments on twitter maybe, who gives a fuck. They would probably be a hero to the numerous gammons and racists among the fans.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

A few angry comments on twitter maybe, who gives a fuck. They would probably be a hero to the numerous gammons and racists among the fans.

I am neither gammon nor racist but I would give them kudos for their action. The whole 'taking a knee' thing has now run it's course and is verging on anachronism.

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

I am neither gammon nor racist but I would give them kudos for their action. The whole 'taking a knee' thing has now run it's course and is verging on anachronism.

The more the racists hate it the better IMO.

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The more the racists hate it the better IMO.

I'm sure racists couldn't give a toss. Their prejudices are ingrained, and like a Trump supporting coronavirus denying, Bible thumper, they are not going to be swayed by facts or informed argument.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I am neither gammon nor racist but I would give them kudos for their action. The whole 'taking a knee' thing has now run it's course and is verging on anachronism.

Seriously what has changed to make it an anachronism. I see the argument about not supporting BLM because of their allied beliefs but not about dismissing it because its no longer relevant.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Seriously what has changed to make it an anachronism. I see the argument about not supporting BLM because of their allied beliefs but not about dismissing it because its no longer relevant.

Didn't it become irrelevant once the protesters stopped marching?