Coronavirus Discussion Thread

[East Kent Saint]

No. I'm just taking the mick.

 

Too much information/mis-information. The fact our government told us this yesterday and the press didnt go mad, sums up how little we're paying attention to the changes that are afoot.

 

True , it seems any bit of seemingly good news put out which gives us a bit of hope is contradicted next day by scientists or doctors !

One of my old managers would ask when told something "where is that written down , show me the evidence" if it was about spares availability or similar it was " have you put your hand on it"

[alehouseboys]

It’s clearly the only logical thing left to do. Some things are bigger then finishing a football season and nearly 20,000 dead is one of them. Cancel it and wait to start the new season whenever we can.

 

As you say, the most logical thing to do.

 

They've just had a report on the BBC highlighting how people exercising outdoors are likely more at risk from deep breathing in droplets in the air. There's far more stricter rules in some countries regarding exercise like only in the home, restricted outside to certain hours of the day, two people together at most and in others, strictly exercising alone.

 

Even without supporters there would be hundreds of people involved in a relatively confined area on a matchday. Players, staff, security, officials, press, etc. That's a lot of people to continually test just to see who's carrying the virus and are the results immediate enough to stop infection inside the stadium and then take home?

 

We're at least 18 months away from a vaccine being discovered, tested - and tested again - then mass produced and administered to just about everyone on this planet.

[whelk]

As you say, the most logical thing to do.

 

They've just had a report on the BBC highlighting how people exercising outdoors are likely more at risk from deep breathing in droplets in the air. There's far more stricter rules in some countries regarding exercise like only in the home, restricted outside to certain hours of the day, two people together at most and in others, strictly exercising alone.

 

Even without supporters there would be hundreds of people involved in a relatively confined area on a matchday. Players, staff, security, officials, press, etc. That's a lot of people to continually test just to see who's carrying the virus and are the results immediate enough to stop infection inside the stadium and then take home?

 

We're at least 18 months away from a vaccine being discovered, tested - and tested again - then mass produced and administered to just about everyone on this planet.

 

You are aware the Germans hope to start their league again in May?

[CB Fry]

As you say, the most logical thing to do.

 

They've just had a report on the BBC highlighting how people exercising outdoors are likely more at risk from deep breathing in droplets in the air. There's far more stricter rules in some countries regarding exercise like only in the home, restricted outside to certain hours of the day, two people together at most and in others, strictly exercising alone.

 

Even without supporters there would be hundreds of people involved in a relatively confined area on a matchday. Players, staff, security, officials, press, etc. That's a lot of people to continually test just to see who's carrying the virus and are the results immediate enough to stop infection inside the stadium and then take home?

 

We're at least 18 months away from a vaccine being discovered, tested - and tested again - then mass produced and administered to just about everyone on this planet.

But we are not 18 months away from a professional football match being played.

 

You could put on a televised Premier League match with fewer people than are in a branch of Asda this morning.

 

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[alehouseboys]

You are aware the Germans hope to start their league again in May?

 

Yeah, doesn't mean they're right (although they'll be far more efficient at safety measures than us), time will tell no doubt.

 

And the first big club to lose players through showing any signs will be up in arms if results start going against them.

[alehouseboys]

But we are not 18 months away from a professional football match being played.

 

You could put on a televised Premier League match with fewer people than are in a branch of Asda this morning.

 

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I'll have to take your word for that, but I'll bet they'll be a denser concentration of people in the stadium areas/dressing rooms and particularly on the pitch. Are we getting non-contact football?

[The Cat]

Reading the government advice I'd suggest football is a grey area. They can't work from home. Their activity needs to continue for the business to operate. Below is a cut and paste from here:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/guidance-for-employers-and-businesses-on-coronavirus-covid-19

 

"All employees should be encouraged to work from home unless it is impossible for them to do so. Not everyone can work from home: certain jobs require people to travel to, from and for their work – for instance to operate machinery, work in construction or manufacturing, or to deliver front line services."

 

"Where the social distancing guidelines cannot be followed in full in relation to a particular activity, businesses should consider whether that activity needs to continue for the business to operate, and, if so, take all the mitigating actions possible to reduce the risk of transmission between their staff."

[Super_Uwe]

Just to be clear on the Bundesliga restart date, May 9th is the suggested date by league officials. It's a theoretical date that things could potentially get going again on.

 

It's all down to government and political approval which will be discussed in the next week or so. Not a guarantee by any means that it will be given the go ahead, but they are trying to resume if they possibly can (behind closed doors of course).

[SW5 SAINT]

But we are not 18 months away from a professional football match being played.

 

You could put on a televised Premier League match with fewer people than are in a branch of Asda this morning.

 

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Still not sure how 22 players plus the officials will be able to practice Social Distancing. Then someone goes clattering into someone else, and the spitting starts. With the best will in the world it’s not possible. The moment that all starts everyone else will be saying why can’t I meet my friends in the pub or coffee shop.

[CB Fry]

Still not sure how 22 players plus the officials will be able to practice Social Distancing. Then someone goes clattering into someone else, and the spitting starts. With the best will in the world it’s not possible. The moment that all starts everyone else will be saying why can’t I meet my friends in the pub or coffee shop.

Well, we'll see. I find it highly implausible that no professional football will be played anywhere until we have a vaccine some time in 2021.

 

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[alehouseboys]

General social distancing is currently recommended at 2m, coughing, sneezing, spitting and heavy breathing apparently trebles that required distance. A physically competitive and close contact environment doesn't sound conducive to good practice.

 

With the money involved of course the clubs want it to get going again soon, and some fans are just so desperate to watch a match it's clouding logic, it's still early stages of this virus and everything done so far could quickly be set back.

[derry]

There might be an upside if football restarts from a purely football point, players might not be so keen to use their hands and arms to hold on to opponents and revert to how the game was intended to be played before all the cheating was allowed to prevail.

Edited 25 April, 2020 by derry

[bangkoksaint]

Until social distancing policies change there will be no football in the UK. The moment the government let football do one thing whilst everyone else does something different will lead to everything that has been achieved so far being undone instantaneously.

[CB Fry]

Until social distancing policies change there will be no football in the UK. The moment the government let football do one thing whilst everyone else does something different will lead to everything that has been achieved so far being undone instantaneously.

In the next few weeks plenty of businesses will reopen, including things like hairdressers. So the policies are obviously about to change.

 

 

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[Turkish]

Didn't he say a month or so ago he was packing it in on here, he sounded like he'd sort of had enough

 

I'm glad he isn't dead but I'm not encouraging to return on here or anything.

 

He came on the UI about that time and is immediately spouting the same sh1te he did on here.

[SW5 SAINT]

In the next few weeks plenty of businesses will reopen, including things like hairdressers. So the policies are obviously about to change.

 

 

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Indeed, the thinking is all so muddled. The moment hairdressers and nail bars get going again, it won’t be possible to keep pubs and restaurants closed. As I type this, there are planes taking off from Heathrow and where ever else, with strangers sat cheek by jowl next to each other......

[AshValeSaint]

If the season can't be completed has anybody thought of just adjusting the starting points for each team so everyone starts relative to where they finished? So give Liverpool a 25 point lead and Saints -23 points etc.

[whelk]

More people I speak to I realise so many out there that think they may have had it already. They don’t have a clue and the death/hospital stats don’t tell us anything in this regard. Of course with no mass antibody test developed then hard to blame them. But also think people will become restless with the measures and start think fck it I probably had it. Even more so in countries that don’t have our safety nets.

[Lighthouse]

Indeed, the thinking is all so muddled. The moment hairdressers and nail bars get going again, it won’t be possible to keep pubs and restaurants closed. As I type this, there are planes taking off from Heathrow and where ever else, with strangers sat cheek by jowl next to each other......

 

I think you will find most of those flights are almost empty and are only running for cargo and a few passengers for whom travel is essential.

 

I'd have thought hairdressers and the like will reopen long before bars and restaurants, for a couple of reasons. Firstly a haircut is more important than having a few drinks and a slap up meal. Secondly, the latter actively encourages close social interaction, not to mention food preparation and one barmaid handling everyone's drink glass. A hairdresser you can sort of get away with, especially if they wear a mask.

[whelk]

If the season can't be completed has anybody thought of just adjusting the starting points for each team so everyone starts relative to where they finished? So give Liverpool a 25 point lead and Saints -23 points etc.

 

Sorry ridiculousness suggestion someone already floated.

[hypochondriac]

He came on the UI about that time and is immediately spouting the same sh1te he did on here.

I'm glad he's someobe else's problem for as long as it lasts.

[SW5 SAINT]

I think you will find most of those flights are almost empty and are only running for cargo and a few passengers for whom travel is essential.

 

I'd have thought hairdressers and the like will reopen long before bars and restaurants, for a couple of reasons. Firstly a haircut is more important than having a few drinks and a slap up meal. Secondly, the latter actively encourages close social interaction, not to mention food preparation and one barmaid handling everyone's drink glass. A hairdresser you can sort of get away with, especially if they wear a mask.

 

I’m not sure a hairdresser or nail bar is more important than a pub or a coffee shop. There is a huge population out there, living on there own, whose main social interaction will be through meeting friends in pubs and cafes. It is already recognised that major mental health issues are likely to be a result of all this. A nod from the person on the checkout at Sainsbury’s doesn’t quite cut it.

[The Cat]

It's kind of obvious that small businesses and shops under a certain size will reopen before bars. You can easily limit the number of people in a hairdressers, bookshop, tattoo parlour etc to one or two, but you'd never do that in a pub.

 

I just want Vinilo record shop to be open. Don't really care about anything else.

[The Cat]

I’m not sure a hairdresser or nail bar is more important than a pub or a coffee shop. There is a huge population out there, living on there own, whose main social interaction will be through meeting friends in pubs and cafes. It is already recognised that major mental health issues are likely to be a result of all this. A nod from the person on the checkout at Sainsbury’s doesn’t quite cut it.

 

If you think pubs and bars are opening anytime soon then prepare for disappointment. They are one of the worst places for transmission.

 

Small cafés and restaurants maybe ok because they are much easier to maintain some semblance of social distancing.

[Lighthouse]

I’m not sure a hairdresser or nail bar is more important than a pub or a coffee shop. There is a huge population out there, living on there own, whose main social interaction will be through meeting friends in pubs and cafes. It is already recognised that major mental health issues are likely to be a result of all this. A nod from the person on the checkout at Sainsbury’s doesn’t quite cut it.

 

Rules might be relaxed on social meetings, getting together in a park, beach etc. But I don’t think it’ll be in bars and restaurants. They will probably be last to reopen, along with music venues/gigs and public ally attended sporting events. It just can’t be done with social distancing.

[Red]

And this is the biggest issue we face now, complacency and "enough is enough" attitude - people think the worst is over - it's not! Why sacrifice weeks of effort for the sake of letting our collective guards down for another few weeks. If there is a second wave, we will be back to square one and all of the lock down efforts will have been wasted.

[Window Cleaner]

And this is the biggest issue we face now, complacency and "enough is enough" attitude - people think the worst is over - it's not! Why sacrifice weeks of effort for the sake of letting our collective guards down for another few weeks. If there is a second wave, we will be back to square one and all of the lock down efforts will have been wasted.

 

Spot on, you haven't reduced the number of new cases and deaths by anywhere near enough as of yet. If anything restrictions in the UK need to be tightened and not relaxed .

[CB Fry]

Spot on, you haven't reduced the number of new cases and deaths by anywhere near enough as of yet. If anything restrictions in the UK need to be tightened and not relaxed .

No they don't and they will not be tightened any further. It's going to be hard enough to keep things at this level for another two weeks or so.

 

The government are planning the next stages and they don't involve tightening anything up.

 

They will involve more testing/track-and-trace and isolation alongside a phased return by business type/personal risk.

 

Collectively there will be a readiness to start opening up, and there will be a collective wariness in the population which, alongside some clear guidelines, should allow life to move back to something closer to normality.

Edited 25 April, 2020 by CB Fry

[OldNick]

If we had lockdown earlier than we did it would not have been as effective as it has been now. People just cant cope. I feel so sorry for families in the high rise flats being cooped up. We have to ease restrictions to young people with kids so that they can go out and play

[Noodles34]

And this is the biggest issue we face now, complacency and "enough is enough" attitude - people think the worst is over - it's not! Why sacrifice weeks of effort for the sake of letting our collective guards down for another few weeks. If there is a second wave, we will be back to square one and all of the lock down efforts will have been wasted.

 

this is the mass hysteria that we don’t need.

how can we back to square one when say 30/40% have already had it?

the lockdown was necessary, and as someone who came from Spain said to me, “this isn’t a lockdown...”

but it has achieved the main principle, not necessarily to stop the spread but to stop the NHS collapsing.

It’s clear that business is starting to take the upper hand , Next, B&Q, Taylor Wimpey and no doubt their competitors will look at the and think they need to be open too then. Business has taken a hard enough hit and expire government grants etc. It will not be enough if this carries on into June.

We can still keep social distancing etc in place, as like supermarkets and carry on, not perfect and obviously will not work for everything but at what prices are we going to say, if you are vulnerable, then fine, here’s some money, stay at home, otherwise if you feel comfortable, get back out there?

[Matthew Le God]

how can we back to square one when say 30/40% have already had it?

 

The WHO today said there is...

"currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection"

[Window Cleaner]

this is the mass hysteria that we don’t need.

how can we back to square one when say 30/40% have already had it?

the lockdown was necessary, and as someone who came from Spain said to me, “this isn’t a lockdown...”

but it has achieved the main principle, not necessarily to stop the spread but to stop the NHS collapsing.

It’s clear that business is starting to take the upper hand , Next, B&Q, Taylor Wimpey and no doubt their competitors will look at the and think they need to be open too then. Business has taken a hard enough hit and expire government grants etc. It will not be enough if this carries on into June.

We can still keep social distancing etc in place, as like supermarkets and carry on, not perfect and obviously will not work for everything but at what prices are we going to say, if you are vulnerable, then fine, here’s some money, stay at home, otherwise if you feel comfortable, get back out there?

 

30-40% you say, try somewhere between 8 and 10 % and the signs are that there is no automatic long-term immunity.

[egg]

this is the mass hysteria that we don’t need.

how can we back to square one when say 30/40% have already had it?

the lockdown was necessary, and as someone who came from Spain said to me, “this isn’t a lockdown...”

but it has achieved the main principle, not necessarily to stop the spread but to stop the NHS collapsing.

It’s clear that business is starting to take the upper hand , Next, B&Q, Taylor Wimpey and no doubt their competitors will look at the and think they need to be open too then. Business has taken a hard enough hit and expire government grants etc. It will not be enough if this carries on into June.

We can still keep social distancing etc in place, as like supermarkets and carry on, not perfect and obviously will not work for everything but at what prices are we going to say, if you are vulnerable, then fine, here’s some money, stay at home, otherwise if you feel comfortable, get back out there?

This is the mass complacency that we don't need. This virus has gone nowhere. There is no way 30-40% have had this, and even if they have, we're now told that infection may not give immunity.

 

The next step is not what people want. It's what the people need.

 

Despite this lockdown lite, thousands of people were tested positive this week. They all caught the virus during lockdown lite. If you add millions more people to the streets, businesses, transport etc, it's obvious that the spread will increase.

[stevy777_x]

This is the mass complacency that we don't need. This virus has gone nowhere. There is no way 30-40% have had this, and even if they have, we're now told that infection may not give immunity.

 

The next step is not what people want. It's what the people need.

 

Despite this lockdown lite, thousands of people were tested positive this week. They all caught the virus during lockdown lite. If you add millions more people to the streets, businesses, transport etc, it's obvious that the spread will increase.

 

They get it because they think that if the goverment tolerates them going out, then they can do it no problem.

Stricter rules need to be applied, you can still do your sport at home or in a cofined space i have a one bedroom flat and still manage to do the required exercise without having to go out.

If people go out they should put masks on, it should be mantadory.

[Window Cleaner]

This is the mass complacency that we don't need. This virus has gone nowhere. There is no way 30-40% have had this, and even if they have, we're now told that infection may not give immunity.

 

The next step is not what people want. It's what the people need.

 

Despite this lockdown lite, thousands of people were tested positive this week. They all caught the virus during lockdown lite. If you add millions more people to the streets, businesses, transport etc, it's obvious that the spread will increase.

 

Agreed, football in particular and sport in general have replaced religion as the opium of the people and without it well...... Not that the bishops and mollahs and what have you aren't kicking up because they can't fleece their flocks either. The UK needed a severe lockdown for 6 to 8 weeks but instead implemented a girly version that the populace were capable of accepting. That's why you still have the highest daily rate of new cases and deaths in Europe.

[whelk]

Agreed, football in particular and sport in general have replaced religion as the opium of the people and without it well...... Not that the bishops and mollahs and what have you aren't kicking up because they can't fleece their flocks either. The UK needed a severe lockdown for 6 to 8 weeks but instead implemented a girly version that the populace were capable of accepting. That's why you still have the highest daily rate of new cases and deaths in Europe.

 

I used to think you were moderately sensible. You seem to have lost the plot

[egg]

Agreed, football in particular and sport in general have replaced religion as the opium of the people and without it well...... Not that the bishops and mollahs and what have you aren't kicking up because they can't fleece their flocks either. The UK needed a severe lockdown for 6 to 8 weeks but instead implemented a girly version that the populace were capable of accepting. That's why you still have the highest daily rate of new cases and deaths in Europe.

Yep, the "lockdown" was too little too late. Something proper would have made a huge difference, proper and earlier would have been more effective. You only have to look at Germany to see how proper action can help. But even then, they've cancelled Oktoberfest, yet people over here believe they'll be having a cider in the pub garden in June. Nuts.

[Window Cleaner]

I used to think you were moderately sensible. You seem to have lost the plot

 

Why so? Because I think that what you call your lockdown is lightweight? I see the results that are published in the daily briefings and I know that the situation isn't getting very much better. Most of the other badly affected countries are all on the downwrd slope because their lockdowns were far more severe and enforced.

Edited 25 April, 2020 by Window Cleaner

[Window Cleaner]

Yep, the "lockdown" was too little too late. Something proper would have made a huge difference, proper and earlier would have been more effective. You only have to look at Germany to see how proper action can help. But even then, they've cancelled Oktoberfest, yet people over here believe they'll be having a cider in the pub garden in June. Nuts.

 

Germany has more cases although their population is greater, they seemed to have managed the death toll better though. Perhaps it's something to do with the make-up of thier population or the strain of the virus most commonly found there.

[whelk]

Why so? Because I think that what you call your lockdown is lightweight? I see the results that are published in the daily briefings and I know that the situation isn't getting very much better. Most of the other badly affected countries all on the downwrd slope because their lockdowns were far more severe and enforced.

 

So everyone is still passing on the virus during our girly lockdown?

[hypochondriac]

30-40% you say, try somewhere between 8 and 10 % and the signs are that there is no automatic long-term immunity.

I haven't seen something that says the signs are that there is no long term automatic immunity. They haven't seen evidence of long term immunity so far which isn't the same thing. Edited 25 April, 2020 by hypochondriac

[CB Fry]

Yep, the "lockdown" was too little too late. Something proper would have made a huge difference, proper and earlier would have been more effective. You only have to look at Germany to see how proper action can help. But even then, they've cancelled Oktoberfest, yet people over here believe they'll be having a cider in the pub garden in June. Nuts.

 

I'm not sure who has said the pubs will be open in June, that doesn't feel particularly likely to me.

 

Germany haven't got where they have with a stricter lockdown than us. They had a better plan and a much bigger and better diagnostics and testing industry in their own country.

 

This utter horsesh it fantasising about everyone being on house arrest is totally counterproductive and utterly hysterical. We aren't going to get cases down to zero and we'd be mad to try.

[Noodles34]

30-40% you say, try somewhere between 8 and 10 % and the signs are that there is no automatic long-term immunity.

 

suspect is at least double your figures and probability ,more, but we don’t know because we are not Germany.

as for getting again, after 5 months, there does not seem to be some mass range of people saying they’ve had it again.

if that was the case the Media would be all over it.

[East Kent Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52425825

 

update

[egg]

I'm not sure who has said the pubs will be open in June, that doesn't feel particularly likely to me.

 

Germany haven't got where they have with a stricter lockdown than us. They had a better plan and a much bigger and better diagnostics and testing industry in their own country.

 

This utter horsesh it fantasising about everyone being on house arrest is totally counterproductive and utterly hysterical. We aren't going to get cases down to zero and we'd be mad to try.

I agree, Germany testing & tracing gave them a huge advantage. They did that from the start. They also locked down, properly. We did neither. The simple fact is that we, at least, hundreds of thousands of people infected - any suggestion of getting back to something like normality any time soon is silly and dangerous.

 

I'm not sure what your last paragraph is all about but this isn't "house arrest" and I'm not calling for it. We are where we are which is with a rampant virus. It's got that way despite this diluted lockdown. It's obvious that removing that will lead to more cases. We need a very slow and controlled return to normality.

[whelk]

Sweden seems the control. I read that it’s been estimate that by beginning of May 50% of Stockholm population will have had it.

 

 

Coronavirus: Has Sweden got its science right? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52395866

[CB Fry]

I agree, Germany testing & tracing gave them a huge advantage. They did that from the start. They also locked down, properly. We did neither. The simple fact is that we, at least, hundreds of thousands of people infected - any suggestion of getting back to something like normality any time soon is silly and dangerous.

 

I'm not sure what your last paragraph is all about but this isn't "house arrest" and I'm not calling for it. We are where we are which is with a rampant virus. It's got that way despite this diluted lockdown. It's obvious that removing that will lead to more cases. We need a very slow and controlled return to normality.

You've made reference to "lockdown lite" so what is it you think we should have done?

[hypochondriac]

I read an article yesterday that said that we fear a second wave in December which would be much worse and that the lockdown has actually been too successful- it's stopped the virus affecting the vulnerable without infecting enough healthy people that the vast majority are still susceptible. Not sure that a harder or longer lockdown wouldn't have made things worse for any second wave. That will all change if they find some effective drugs or vaccine before then of course.

[egg]

You've made reference to "lockdown lite" so what is it you think we should have done?

 

Locked down.

[Turkish]

I read an article yesterday that said that we fear a second wave in December which would be much worse and that the lockdown has actually been too successful- it's stopped the virus affecting the vulnerable without infecting enough healthy people that the vast majority are still susceptible. Not sure that a harder or longer lockdown wouldn't have made things worse for any second wave. That will all change if they find some effective drugs or vaccine before then of course.

 

Are they saying the heard immunity that the government was slated for was actually the right thing to do?