Coronavirus Discussion Thread

[whelk]

The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

The media have been an utter disgrace. Full of scaremongering, speculation, oh and a bit more scaremongering.

 

Would you like them to tell you it’s all ok?

 

That was response to Dave F but seems to have quoted LD

[Whitey Grandad]

The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They’ve been like that for years.

[stevy777_x]

Media is starting to say that fat or abese people are more liable to have severe conditions if they contract Corona.

 

We can expect both US and UK to have loads of severe cases then more than in other countries.

[Jonnyboy]

At times of crisis people " rally to the flag" and support the Government. This will change and people will start to question the Government as the death toll rises and (if) the UK registers the highest number of European deaths.

 

Exactly.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-boris-johnson-and-other-world-leaders-have-become-more-popular-during-outbreak-11965748

[stockportsaint]

Exactly.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-boris-johnson-and-other-world-leaders-have-become-more-popular-during-outbreak-11965748

 

In 1940, the people of Britain rallied behind Churchill, and supported his government throughout the war. In 1945 they voted him out in the biggest landslide Labour ever received. A fact that Johnson will be only too aware of, having written an appallingly researched biography of Churchill, full of factual errors about his hero.

[SFC Forever]

For someone who call others strange, it's completely bizarre how, like Hypo etc, you will continuously defend the government no matter what. Weird.

 

 

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

[SFC Forever]

It's perfect possible to call out the government for perceived mistakes without it being laced with political point scoring. I'd be doing exactly the same whoever was in charge.

 

As for moaning if the lockdown had started earlier, I doubt I would have been. We're talking a week or so earlier, not a month. People were discussing a possible suspension of the Premier League the weekend we played Newcastle but it wasn't until nearly 2 weeks later on 20th March when the pubs shut.

 

That was obviously the period when the virus began to spread more widely and large scale gatherings were still taking place. It's impossible to know how many less lives would have been lost if it had been done then, but it has to be a significant number.

 

 

We were told that a lockdown would be forced on us if the idiots flouting the request to follow distance restrictions etc continued to flout the requirements. Even now we have seen many flouting the rules which are now law.

 

Should we have sent the military out to keep our streets empty? Perhaps start shooting the dumb idiots ignoring the stay at home rules?

 

None of us has an obvious answer to this problem. As for the possibility of seeing the UK have the most deaths in Europe. This could well be caused buy the simple fact that we have more obese unwell people per 10000 than the rest of Europe.

 

The government is blamed for lack of PPE yet these things should be ordered by the medical fraternity. The government stepped in when it was obvious that there was a shortage. Like all of the equipment we need to fight this pandemic previous governments could be held responsible for lack of funding.

 

We have a population that is growing older by the year. Less people earning enough to fund the required amounts to stay afloat has meant a time like this has almost become inevitable.

[benjii]

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

[whelk]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Exactly. Saying do not go to pub but allowing pubs to stay open was not much of a strategy. Don’t go to pub and mix but allow 60;000 racegoers to mix was mental.

Understand the drip fed message to make us all ‘get it’ gradually rather than brutal WTF is happening and why bringing potential rebellion. But hey hindsight is a wonderful thing,

[doddisalegend]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

This is spot on.

[shurlock]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

The classic was from Helen Whately, a health minister, who said mid-March that stopping mass gatherings didn’t have a large impact on the spread of the virus. That said, the same line was peddled by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer too. Wonder if they still agree...

Edited 13 April, 2020 by shurlock

[shurlock]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Or as one government advisor summarised it “ herd immunity, protect the economy, and if that means some pensioners die, too bad.”

[rallyboy]

While this is an incredibly difficult crisis to manage with many factors to balance, we can't even organise a basic delivery of PPE from A to B.

 

Hancock is so far out of his depth he's nearer to France than the UK, Patel is dangerously incoherent, Raab has no answer to any question, Boris doesn't understand basic medical advice, and when you get into the detail of the Chancellor's grand rescue plan for the economy, it amounts to a small tin of beans.

 

This is not a team performing well.

And if you still believe the nonesense we are drip-fed everyday, that we lead the world in everything - see New Zealand or Germany.

[CB Fry]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

Correct.

 

Also worth remembering the culture of the current administration and political discourse.

 

Even six weeks ago folk like Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance - senior civil servants, unelected, bureaucrats, technical, non-partisan - would be described by many as "the swamp" .

 

Ignoring, belittling, dismissing and mocking their advice, their roles and them as people would be celebrated and a badge of honour. Who voted for these *****s?

 

Let's not pretend there was an environment where difficult/uncomfortable advice would be welcomed or acted on. Unlike a country led by, say, a qualified, experienced scientist.

[Whitey Grandad]

We were told that a lockdown would be forced on us if the idiots flouting the request to follow distance restrictions etc continued to flout the requirements. Even now we have seen many flouting the rules which are now law.

 

Should we have sent the military out to keep our streets empty? Perhaps start shooting the dumb idiots ignoring the stay at home rules?

 

None of us has an obvious answer to this problem. As for the possibility of seeing the UK have the most deaths in Europe. This could well be caused buy the simple fact that we have more obese unwell people per 10000 than the rest of Europe.

 

The government is blamed for lack of PPE yet these things should be ordered by the medical fraternity. The government stepped in when it was obvious that there was a shortage. Like all of the equipment we need to fight this pandemic previous governments could be held responsible for lack of funding.

 

We have a population that is growing older by the year. Less people earning enough to fund the required amounts to stay afloat has meant a time like this has almost become inevitable.

 

It’s not keeping the streets empty that’s the problem. It’s stopping domestic social gatherings of people from different households.

 

The lack of PPE is due to the insistence on central purchasing.

[Whitey Grandad]

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

The government chose which advisers to follow.

 

Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College has a very patchy history and is widely criticised. His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164121/Professor-predicted-500-000-Britons-die-coronavirus-accused-having-patchy-record.html

[Delmary]

There’s not a simple answer to the PPE shortages. Yes, the government under estimated the abilities of NHS Supply Chain (a private sector company). The military is now supporting distribution. Things are slowly getting better. Nevertheless, there has been mass panic buying of PPE on the global markets by most governments. Trump has used the war time Defence Production Act to take control of certain medical and PPE products within the US. China has been selling to the highest bidders, as their production lines have returned to normal.

 

The global shortages of PPE products and the raw materials to manufacturer them, have affected many countries. Economies with a strong manufacturing based have coped the best. In South Korea, Samsung has switched some of its production to PPE. The UK is mainly a service driving economy. This has adversely impacted on the UK. We’re too reliant on globalisation.

 

When this is all over, deglobalisation will be something big business and governments will need to consider, in order to strengthen the robustness of international supply chains.

[SFC Forever]

It’s not keeping the streets empty that’s the problem. It’s stopping domestic social gatherings of people from different households.

 

The lack of PPE is due to the insistence on central purchasing.

 

 

Maybe I am being stupid but surely by keeping people off of the streets we are stopping gatherings. If we are not allowed to go out except for shopping, working etc we are unable to go to large gatherings.

[SFC Forever]

The government chose which advisers to follow.

 

Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College has a very patchy history and is widely criticised. His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164121/Professor-predicted-500-000-Britons-die-coronavirus-accused-having-patchy-record.html

 

Now I am being thick.

 

So instead of having a lockdown as we have you would let us carry on as normal. If maintained, the lockdown stops gatherings and the greater chance of spreading the disease. Thus less chance of quote '' His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.''

 

I personally don't know who is advising the government, but from what we have been told there are leading scientists, medical, and business experts. Not just one person.

[Jonnyboy]

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

Funny, a couple of years back the Tories were telling us the British people had had enough of experts.

[Jonnyboy]

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

[video=youtube;n3NAx3tsy-k]

[egg]

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Spot on. Our approach has been a shambles. Slow, indecisive, confused, just plain crap.

[SFC Forever]

He also stressed the importance of washing your hands. Shaking hands is not considered dangerous if you wash your hands immediately after.

[waylander]

Funny, a couple of years back the Tories were telling us the British people had had enough of experts.

 

That quote relates specifically to "expert" economists

[Whitey Grandad]

Maybe I am being stupid but surely by keeping people off of the streets we are stopping gatherings. If we are not allowed to go out except for shopping, working etc we are unable to go to large gatherings.

 

I was thinking of house parties an social barbecues.

 

"Police shut down 494 house parties in four days in Greater Manchester"

 

DJs, bouncy castles, fireworks?

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-police-shut-down-494-house-parties-in-four-days-in-greater-manchester-11971032

[Whitey Grandad]

Now I am being thick.

 

So instead of having a lockdown as we have you would let us carry on as normal. If maintained, the lockdown stops gatherings and the greater chance of spreading the disease. Thus less chance of quote '' His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.''

 

I personally don't know who is advising the government, but from what we have been told there are leading scientists, medical, and business experts. Not just one person.

 

This is where you are mistaken. There is a lot of petty empire-building within this government. Duncan Selbie as the founder and chief executive of Public Health England for eexample. He jealously protects his personal empire.

[Whitey Grandad]

He also stressed the importance of washing your hands. Shaking hands is not considered dangerous if you wash your hands immediately after.

 

The evidence that there is suggests that he caught the disease at a meeting of COBRA and Neil Ferguson is the likely suspect.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/covid-19-coronavirus-westminster-uk-pm-health-secretary

[East Kent Saint]

I see Boris is now using his second official home , one rule for ..... (a joke)

[Whitey Grandad]

I see Boris is now using his second official home , one rule for ..... (a joke)

 

Well, not so much a joke.

 

Carrie Symonds has joined him at Chequers from their flat in London.

Edited 13 April, 2020 by Whitey Grandad

[egg]

Well, not so much a joke.

 

Carrie a Symonds has joined him at Chequers from their flat in London.

 

Yep, pretty poor show given that Scottish lady had to resign for visiting her holiday home. There has to be consistency.

[The Cat]

Apparently 10 Downing Street is about 4 minutes walk from St Thomas's. But he's gone an hour drive to Chequers instead.

[Minsk]

Meanwhile away from politics and back to football......

 

I see the North London yobbos have followed Liverpool in doing a furlough U-turn. So only the bottom team, Sports Direct and the bucket rattlers doing it from the prem.....

[aintforever]

Meanwhile away from politics and back to football......

 

I see the North London yobbos have followed Liverpool in doing a furlough U-turn. So only the bottom team, Sports Direct and the bucket rattlers doing it from the prem.....

 

I really don’t get the issue with furloughing, thousands of profit making companies up and down the country are doing it, many will have high earners, all will have to pay for it through tax later on.

[whelk]

I really don’t get the issue with furloughing, thousands of profit making companies up and down the country are doing it, many will have high earners, all will have to pay for it through tax later on.

 

If you don’t get it I don’t think any explanation will help

[Noodles34]

I really don’t get the issue with furloughing, thousands of profit making companies up and down the country are doing it, many will have high earners, all will have to pay for it through tax later on.

 

not sure many will the extreme of high earners in A football club. I’d love to see the facts but you have to assume that PL. pubs have t(e highest wage bill (per head) than any other business? The point is, that instead of reducing players wages to pay heir staff and lets face it, maybe a 20% cut would cover it, they want to use 80% of tax payers money. You make a valid point about other companies and perhaps a caveat on high earners at a company against what they want to claim should be bought in, but it was obviously a required knee jerk decision and of course, some finer details have been lost.

[The Cat]

Macron with some very honest statements today. Admitting they have made mistakes in being too slow to get the right PPE.

 

France lockdown runs to 11th May at which point schools gradually go back. No major cultural events until at least July.

[Batman]

Macron with some very honest statements today. Admitting they have made mistakes in being too slow to get the right PPE.

 

France lockdown runs to 11th May at which point schools gradually go back. No major cultural events until at least July.

Their lock down is far more of a proper lockdown compared to the one we have too.

[aintforever]

not sure many will the extreme of high earners in A football club. I’d love to see the facts but you have to assume that PL. pubs have t(e highest wage bill (per head) than any other business? The point is, that instead of reducing players wages to pay heir staff and lets face it, maybe a 20% cut would cover it, they want to use 80% of tax payers money. You make a valid point about other companies and perhaps a caveat on high earners at a company against what they want to claim should be bought in, but it was obviously a required knee jerk decision and of course, some finer details have been lost.

 

But surely it’s fair if the government claw back the money by taxing high-earners afterwards, then all companies get treated the same?

[Jonnyboy]

But surely it’s fair if the government claw back the money by taxing high-earners afterwards, then all companies get treated the same?

 

You can't tax high earners! They'll all leave the country!

[Noodles34]

But surely it’s fair if the government claw back the money by taxing high-earners afterwards, then all companies get treated the same?

 

I guess it would be good to see some real math on the subject so we could actually see whether the taxing of say JWP brings in more revenue then the spend on losing 20% of his tax against paying 2500 per head to SFC employees.

[whelk]

I guess it would be good to see some real math on the subject so we could actually see whether the taxing of say JWP brings in more revenue then the spend on losing 20% of his tax against paying 2500 per head to SFC employees.

 

It’s maths

[benjii]

I guess it would be good to see some real math on the subject so we could actually see whether the taxing of say JWP brings in more revenue then the spend on losing 20% of his tax against paying 2500 per head to SFC employees.

 

As the wages are deferred, not cancelled, the tax take should ultimately end up being unaffected by the wage deferral. Basically, the players are making an interest-free loan to the club to ease cash flow.

[Batman]

As the wages are deferred, not cancelled, the tax take should ultimately end up being unaffected by the wage deferral. Basically, the players are making an interest-free loan to the club to ease cash flow.

 

Just read a piece about JwP. Helping the community with his wage deferral.

 

what a hero!

[Whitey Grandad]

I guess it would be good to see some real math on the subject so we could actually see whether the taxing of say JWP brings in more revenue then the spend on losing 20% of his tax against paying 2500 per head to SFC employees.

 

It’s just a small point but the employees will still pay PAYE and NI on these subsidies.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just read a piece about JwP. Helping the community with his wage deferral.

 

what a hero!

 

Yes, me too. It is in The Times this morning. There is a paywall but those interested may have some success by searching for this headline:

 

“Southampton’s James Ward-Prowse: It’s not about being first – we must protect jobs“

[Charlie Wayman]

It’s maths

 

...or indeed mathematics!

[Charlie Wayman]

Thi avoids the Times and heir bloody paywall..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52274265

[Give it to Ron]

Just read a piece about JwP. Helping the community with his wage deferral.

 

what a hero!

 

Unlike you to be positive are you ok?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Whitey Grandad]

Just a gentle reminder to any smokers that you are at greater risk. The Chinese report says up to fourteen times greater risk but there are other factors.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smokers-at-greater-risk-of-severe-respiratory-disease-from-covid-19

 

https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Abstract/publishahead/Analysis_of_factors_associated_with_disease.99363.aspx

[stevy777_x]

Their lock down is far more of a proper lockdown compared to the one we have too.

 

It maybe more strict that the one in the UK but opening schools in one month time is suicidal and will destroy all the benefits of the lockdown.

There is one month of school left why bother its not a do or die situation is it?

 

I m critizising France s management but to be honest the UK s is 10 times worse.