Coronavirus Discussion Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.

Joe Lewis lives in the Bahamas and owns over twice as many shares in ENIC as Levy and his family. He is more than filthy rich.

[SKD]

Very very disappointing if true.

 

Agree, But it’s also very very predictable.

[Whitey Grandad]

You’re confusing the owner and club. Liverpool is based in the UK and subject to the same tax rules and regulations as Newcastle and Tottenham and every other PL club.

Like any other affected business these clubs have been forced to stop operating by government decree. Whether it be Liverpool of Mrs Miggins Pies they qualify for government support. What sticks in the throat is that these clubs are filthy rich and throw money around like confetti.

[SKD]

Like any other affected business these clubs have been forced to stop operating by government decree. Whether it be Liverpool of Mrs Miggins Pies they qualify for government support. What sticks in the throat is that these clubs are filthy rich and throw money around like confetti.

 

They still receive 90% of their revenue (TV deal, which they won’t end season early because they don’t want to give money back). Match day revenue, is a drop in the ocean to a PL club and isn’t relied upon to make a profit or pay the staff .

 

It’s greedy owners / chairmen taking advantage of a horrible situation.

[Baird of the land]

Predictable given the premier league didn't take any leadership role by issuing penalties to the early clubs bad behaviour. The herd then felt they were at risk of being disadvantaged.

[Turkish]

This will be a decision made by the owner Saints. Do you seriously expect him to not take advantage of this scheme???

You are all naive if you expecting him to do otherwise.

Its a foregone conclusion.

 

Sadly I do expect them too that doesn’t make it right though

[Turkish]

Man City confirm they won’t furlough any staff

[Matthew Le God]

Predictable given the premier league didn't take any leadership role by issuing penalties to the early clubs bad behaviour. The herd then felt they were at risk of being disadvantaged.

 

Which rule did they break?

[Mosin]

If ever the fans of football needed an eye opener to show them that football is really all about the money and does not care for its staff or its local community... This is it... Pure greed...

[benjii]

That directly contradicts information I had from the club earlier this week, unless something has changed. I will have the opportunity to get a definitive answer next week.

 

"Southampton’s players, management team and wider staff continue to be paid in full as the club await the outcome of the Premier League’s video conference between stakeholders on Friday before taking any possible action. The club’s pool of hundreds of casual matchday staff are yet to be affected by the shutdown owing to an absence of home matches in recent weeks, and most full-time employees are working remotely."

 

That was Thursday. It's possible the situation changed after the PL meeting.

 

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Edit.

[benjii]

Morally none but difference is that other two live here and pay their taxes here. John Henry is american and has no allegiance to this country. For me that makes it worse as he is taking money from his tax paying Liverpool fans plus all taxpayers here.

 

Tottenham are owned by Enic International Ltd which is mostly owned by a Bahamas based company owned by Bahamas-based Joe Lwis. Not that it matters.

[skintsaint]

They still receive 90% of their revenue (TV deal, which they won’t end season early because they don’t want to give money back). Match day revenue, is a drop in the ocean to a PL club and isn’t relied upon to make a profit or pay the staff .

 

It’s greedy owners / chairmen taking advantage of a horrible situation.

 

Plus a lot of players have goal bonuses, clean sheet bonuses, appearance fees that would have all been budgeted for, but not being paid now saving them more dosh.

[Baird of the land]

Which rule did they break?

 

As a body can't it bring in whatever rules it sees fit and penalties for failing to comply?

[Matthew Le God]

As a body can't it bring in whatever rules it sees fit and penalties for failing to comply?

 

Clubs aren't going to accept a rule being creating and then being applied to events before its creation. That wouldn't hold up in court.

[Shroppie]

I see Rooney's now gone on the offensive on behalf of the poor bullied PL footballers. So unfair to ask them to take a pay cut.

 

 

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[Barry the Badger]

More players should follow the example of Kyle Walker, putting money back into the community and supporting the self-employed.

[Baird of the land]

Clubs aren't going to accept a rule being creating and then being applied to events before its creation. That wouldn't hold up in court.

 

It could be applied from next month forcing those clubs to defurlough their staff.

[Batman]

I see Rooney's now gone on the offensive on behalf of the poor bullied PL footballers. So unfair to ask them to take a pay cut.

 

 

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Did you read how his 'pal' can't be expected to live on £1400 per week (after a 30% wage reduction)...

 

my god.

 

Interesting chat on TalkSport. Simon Jordan saying the likes of Liverpool etc doing what they are doing is to force the players to take a pay cut - leverage (in the top flight anyway) as the PFA were dead against. Now, they (the PFA) are having to buckle and embarrassing itself in the process.

[Greenridge]

More players should follow the example of Kyle Walker, putting money back into the community and supporting the self-employed.

 

By hosting a party?

[Batman]

By hosting a party?

 

not just any party!

[The Cat]

not just any party!

 

Ain't no party like an S Club party.

[The Cat]

I hope the club refund us the money for the games we've missed on our season tickets. I wasn't that bothered about it until now but I've changed my mind.

 

Would have been a very positive bit of press for the club to pay the staff themselves like Man City are.

[Greenridge]

not just any party!

 

No, he was doing his bit to support a couple of self-employed ladies too!

[Lighthouse]

I hope the club refund us the money for the games we've missed on our season tickets. I wasn't that bothered about it until now but I've changed my mind.

 

Would have been a very positive bit of press for the club to pay the staff themselves like Man City are.

 

If they wouldn’t mind refunding me for the ones I have been to for the last four years, that’d be nice too.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The conduct of some clubs and their playing staff will amplify the disconnect between them and their fan base. We became customers and not supporters some time ago but the response of some clubs to this crisis exposes just how dreadful the people who run and operate in our sport. Their warped values are exemplified by the decision of some to exploit the furlough initiative, that is designed to moth ball our ailing leisure and other industries that have been decimated by the lock down to enable them to bounce back when this wicked virus has run its course. There seems to be a consensus from the likes of Wayne Rooney and co that it is better to circle their wagons rather than do the right thing. Shame on them.

[StrangelyBrown]

The conduct of some clubs and their playing staff will amplify the disconnect between them and their fan base. We became customers and not supporters some time ago but the response of some clubs to this crisis exposes just how dreadful the people who run and operate in our sport. Their warped values are exemplified by the decision of some to exploit the furlough initiative, that is designed to moth ball our ailing leisure and other industries that have been decimated by the lock down to enable them to bounce back when this wicked virus has run its course. There seems to be a consensus from the likes of Wayne Rooney and co that it is better to circle their wagons rather than do the right thing. Shame on them.

The way the majority of premier League footballers have behaved in all this has really turned my stomach and for gary lineker to ask why footballers are being targeted and not CEOs, when CEOs are working harder than anyone to save jobs and their companies beggars belief. What exactly is it that footballers are doing right now to deserve their millions?? **** all is what...

 

I knew football has been rotten for ages, I just hadn't realised how much I despised those involved in the game I love.

 

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[Whitey Grandad]

[video=facebook_share;2585486671730788]

[whelk]

The way the majority of premier League footballers have behaved in all this has really turned my stomach and for gary lineker to ask why footballers are being targeted and not CEOs, when CEOs are working harder than anyone to save jobs and their companies beggars belief. What exactly is it that footballers are doing right now to deserve their millions?? **** all is what...

 

I knew football has been rotten for ages, I just hadn't realised how much I despised those involved in the game I love.

 

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Listen to what Lineker says ffs. So many tw&ts wading into footballers. It is the fckers not paying the back office staff not the footballers that deserve the anger.

PFA are fcking useless but as I said before it’s not Henderson’s fault Liverpool are behaving like cnts?

[whelk]

Interesting all these people are giving up on football. Scales fallen from people’s eyes that clubs don’t love you and behave with honour. Who knew?

[Turkish]

Listen to what Lineker says ffs. So many tw&ts wading into footballers. It is the fckers not paying the back office staff not the footballers that deserve the anger.

PFA are fcking useless but as I said before it’s not Henderson’s fault Liverpool are behaving like cnts?

 

This.

[stevy777_x]

You either like to watch football as a sport or you don t.

 

If you don’t like how it is played or the business it has come then just **** off and watch another less lucrative sport.

[The Cat]

You either like to watch football as a sport or you don t.

 

If you don’t like how it is played or the business it has come then just **** off and watch another less lucrative sport.

 

It's not the sport of football that's the problem, it's just the top end.

 

There's hundreds of clubs outside the Premier League. If anything I'd suggest anyone falling out of love with top flight football should go and watch some non league to remind themselves of why they love the game.

 

There's a lot to like about football at Southern League and Wessex level and the clubs truly appreciate the support.

[Turkish]

You either like to watch football as a sport or you don t.

 

If you don’t like how it is played or the business it has come then just **** off and watch another less lucrative sport.

 

Great attitude mate, if you don’t like it f8ck off basically. Great stuff.

[wadesmith]

Interesting all these people are giving up on football. Scales fallen from people’s eyes that clubs don’t love you and behave with honour. Who knew?

 

I think most of us knew...but for some this might be the first time it effects them personally..and a bit like when a political party bends you over & doesn't even have the decency to use lube..some people might choose to remove their support temporarily..or permanently.

[Chewy]

Listen to what Lineker says ffs. So many tw&ts wading into footballers. It is the fckers not paying the back office staff not the footballers that deserve the anger.

PFA are fcking useless but as I said before it’s not Henderson’s fault Liverpool are behaving like cnts?

 

I’m sorry but much as I think he talks a lot of sense most of the time, I think even saint Lineker has mis-judged this one.

 

Fundamentally it is the clubs who are making this decision and ultimately I guess they’re responsible, but footballers in the UK have been extremely slow to react. How long ago did Barca and Juve players announce their measures? What’s the reason for the delay in the uk?

 

The implication from what the likes of rose, Rooney and Lineker have said is that they feel it should be the clubs who act. The second the general public see multi millionaires say it’s not for them to sort, it’s for the billionaire owners is the same second most of us think f@ck off. They might actually have a point, but how far up your own 4rse must your head be to not see that an argument between multi millionaires and billionaires is not going to generate any sympathy among the public for the poorer relations, those terribly victimized players.

 

How far removed from reality must you be to think that telling us we should be grateful for the tax they pay, talking as if it was a charitable donation and annualising it to massively exaggerate the amount (otherwise known as lying).

 

Oh yes, now you say it I realise Hancock was wrong, we should lay off the players who we should protect as the people to cheer us up when this is all over by entertaining us ... as they dive, cheat and dissent themselves through 90 minutes work.

 

Make no mistake, the clubs are more at fault and there are some decent people amongst the players. But saying we should lay off the players for being a 90% c*nt because they’re not as bad as the 100% c*nt owners is hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

And if they expect to get sympathy by whining to the press about how unfair this is on them, and getting their representative body to make statements like that while the players struggle to do anything collectively, then they have massively miss read the public mood.

 

Most of the public are concerned with slightly more pressing matters than millionaires and billionaires arguing over what is, quite frankly, small change to them

[Lighthouse]

I’m sorry but much as I think he talks a lot of sense most of the time, I think even saint Lineker has mis-judged this one.

 

Fundamentally it is the clubs who are making this decision and ultimately I guess they’re responsible, but footballers in the UK have been extremely slow to react. How long ago did Barca and Juve players announce their measures? What’s the reason for the delay in the uk?

 

The implication from what the likes of rose, Rooney and Lineker have said is that they feel it should be the clubs who act. The second the general public see multi millionaires say it’s not for them to sort, it’s for the billionaire owners is the same second most of us think f@ck off. They might actually have a point, but how far up your own 4rse must your head be to not see that an argument between multi millionaires and billionaires is not going to generate any sympathy among the public for the poorer relations, those terribly victimized players.

 

How far removed from reality must you be to think that telling us we should be grateful for the tax they pay, talking as if it was a charitable donation and annualising it to massively exaggerate the amount (otherwise known as lying).

 

Oh yes, now you say it I realise Hancock was wrong, we should lay off the players who we should protect as the people to cheer us up when this is all over by entertaining us ... as they dive, cheat and dissent themselves through 90 minutes work.

 

Make no mistake, the clubs are more at fault and there are some decent people amongst the players. But saying we should lay off the players for being a 90% c*nt because they’re not as bad as the 100% c*nt owners is hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

And if they expect to get sympathy by whining to the press about how unfair this is on them, and getting their representative body to make statements like that while the players struggle to do anything collectively, then they have massively miss read the public mood.

 

Most of the public are concerned with slightly more pressing matters than millionaires and billionaires arguing over what is, quite frankly, small change to them

 

Agreed.

 

Personally I think anyone earning over £20kpw should volunteer to take a 50% pay cut and it should have been done weeks ago. They'd still be getting paid an utterly obscene amount of money to sit at home playing X-Box, it's really not that much of a tragedy. Instead they're more worried that the clubs might actually make a bit more money than them out of this, which I highly doubt. Gate receipts are gone, ST renewals will be way down and I'm sure Sky/BT will have tightened up like a duck's arse, since thousands of customers cancelled their subscriptions.

 

They're both as bad as each other - nauseating levels of greed. The rest of the country and the economy is on its knees and they're most worried that the other side will make a slightly more obscene profit than they do.

[manina-pub]

https://www.facebook.com/10000808441...5486671730788/

 

 

 

= the broader public opinion

[whelk]

I’m sorry but much as I think he talks a lot of sense most of the time, I think even saint Lineker has mis-judged this one.

 

Fundamentally it is the clubs who are making this decision and ultimately I guess they’re responsible, but footballers in the UK have been extremely slow to react. How long ago did Barca and Juve players announce their measures? What’s the reason for the delay in the uk?

 

The implication from what the likes of rose, Rooney and Lineker have said is that they feel it should be the clubs who act. The second the general public see multi millionaires say it’s not for them to sort, it’s for the billionaire owners is the same second most of us think f@ck off. They might actually have a point, but how far up your own 4rse must your head be to not see that an argument between multi millionaires and billionaires is not going to generate any sympathy among the public for the poorer relations, those terribly victimized players.

 

How far removed from reality must you be to think that telling us we should be grateful for the tax they pay, talking as if it was a charitable donation and annualising it to massively exaggerate the amount (otherwise known as lying).

 

Oh yes, now you say it I realise Hancock was wrong, we should lay off the players who we should protect as the people to cheer us up when this is all over by entertaining us ... as they dive, cheat and dissent themselves through 90 minutes work.

 

Make no mistake, the clubs are more at fault and there are some decent people amongst the players. But saying we should lay off the players for being a 90% c*nt because they’re not as bad as the 100% c*nt owners is hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

And if they expect to get sympathy by whining to the press about how unfair this is on them, and getting their representative body to make statements like that while the players struggle to do anything collectively, then they have massively miss read the public mood.

 

Most of the public are concerned with slightly more pressing matters than millionaires and billionaires arguing over what is, quite frankly, small change to them

 

Is it just something nice and tangible for you to see footballers as the embodiment of wealth? Do you know there are a hell of a lot of rich people and a lot of wealth disparity in society?

 

Reminds me of Diana outrage

[Chewy]

No

Yes

Odd

 

What’s your point? I shouldn’t call out the footballers because there’s other rich, greedy, selfish people in the world??

 

If I was blaming them for the ills of society it’d maybe make some sense, but the context of this is how initially footballers and owners at clubs furloughing it’s lower paid staff are behaving, widened to the general premier league after the pfa decided to seek public sympathy.

 

In that context I think my post focusing on footballers was reasonable??

[wadesmith]

Is it just something nice and tangible for you to see footballers as the embodiment of wealth? Do you know there are a hell of a lot of rich people and a lot of wealth disparity in society?

 

Reminds me of Diana outrage

 

Well actually you are 100% right. if the CEO of some huge corporation furloughs his staff..then myself and probably most others think "Ok fair enough some people I don't know on a good to average wages can pay their mortgage for a few months' even though that company may have billions in the bank. When a football club does it, it naturally causes a different reaction to people. We all have a decent idea of what these players are earning, we kind of feel we know most of them in some way, even the bog standard players in the premiership are earning in the a year what it might take most of us ten years to earn.

Does that make it right?..I actually don't know. I would like to think if I was a premiership footballer for the last 5/6 years and had a steady wage of 80k a week and lets say a million in the bank or invested, I would be uncomftable with my club furloughing staff...but I'm not a premiership footballer so it's difficult to put myself in that position. It's all relative. I could afford to give the NHS £300.00 a month for the next 6 months with the money i'm saving being at home..but i'm not going to. Does that make me as bad as a premiership footballer unwilling to take a wage cut? I don't know the answer to that. But you are correct. Footballers represent something tangible. that's human nature.

[whelk]

No

Yes

Odd

 

What’s your point? I shouldn’t call out the footballers because there’s other rich, greedy, selfish people in the world??

 

If I was blaming them for the ills of society it’d maybe make some sense, but the context of this is how initially footballers and owners at clubs furloughing it’s lower paid staff are behaving, widened to the general premier league after the pfa decided to seek public sympathy.

 

In that context I think my post focusing on footballers was reasonable??

 

I make the same point each time. Sickening greed of the clubs disgusts us all. I don’t understand why everyone is expecting footballers to make forced public sacrifices because everyone is p1ssed off with the clubs and the industry.

Of course most are fabulously wealthy but that isn’t their fault. Most people do their giving in private. Note Yoshida 1% was greeted with ‘class’ when totally insignificant to his income.

Some might be ***ts with their money, others wont be. It’s this Piers Morgan type clamouring that worries me. That was the Diana analogy. Such sanctimony from many who will probably not be giving any of their money to noble causes.

Left hand shouldn’t know what the right hand does.

[Chewy]

I make the same point each time. Sickening greed of the clubs disgusts us all. I don’t understand why everyone is expecting footballers to make forced public sacrifices because everyone is p1ssed off with the clubs and the industry.

Of course most are fabulously wealthy but that isn’t their fault. Most people do their giving in private. Note Yoshida 1% was greeted with ‘class’ when totally insignificant to his income.

Some might be ***ts with their money, others wont be. It’s this Piers Morgan type clamouring that worries me. That was the Diana analogy. Such sanctimony from many who will probably not be giving any of their money to noble causes.

Left hand shouldn’t know what the right hand does.

 

I’m really sorry but I think you’ve got this the wrong way round. I, like I imagine most people, was happy leaving football as a separate issue to the wider situation. It was ‘football’ by way of certain clubs using the furlough scheme that brought these two issues crashing together.

 

The players might very well say that’s the fault of their owners for choosing to do that; my point is they can’t exactly have expected public sympathy unless their heads are entrenched in their own arses. Best policy would have been to shut up and work on a positive response. Instead they chose to try and paint themselves as unfortunate victims for their terrible plight through the pfa saying we should thank them for their charitable donation of tax, supplying a completely exaggerated figure in the process.

 

To have expected any response other than “f@ck off you bunch of overpaid, ivory tower dwelling c*nts” would take a gigantic misreading if public opinion, only capable by people who did indeed have their heads firmly entrenched up their own arses.

 

And it really is worth making the point that what most of us are focusing on is the players making a sacrifice to help their fellow (but massively less well-paid) workers at their clubs that they rely on every day of their working lives. I do not expect Deli Ali to fund a trial of a new drug to cure covid 19. Just please take a bit less money so the minimum wage waiter can be kept in work without troubling the government furlough scheme. Or if he thinks ENIC should pick up the tab have that conversation with your employer. Just don’t tell the press how unreasonable ENIC are and how unfair it is on you because I don’t give a sh1t.

[Red]

If you have Netflix I highly recommend The English Game - very good series by the same team that produced The Crown. All about how football developed in England and shows today's greed is nothing new!

[Shandy_Top_89]

While I think it is probably a fair point to suggest that football players are probably getting an unequal amount of stick compared to other high earners e.g. CEOs, they do occupy a unique position and generally have much less responsibility.

 

That being said the main issue is PL club chairmen showing pure greed and the PFA offering absolutely pathetic leadership to the players.

 

However the players are doing themselves absolutely no favours speaking out about how 'unfair' the pressure is, the best bet would be to stay quiet and seek a resolution.

 

I also don't get all these convoluted solutions about players either taking a 30% pay cut, but with no guarantees that this will go toward non-playing salaries or talk of charitable donations instead.

 

All the public want is for the PL to be self-sustainable and pay their non-playing staff out of their own resources without assistance from the taxpayer, which is achievable through player wage deferrals.

 

The Club Chairmen and the PFA (especially Gordon Taylor) are the worst offenders here, but the players certainly aren't doing themselves any favours with these outbursts.

[Portugalsaint]

As usual it’s all about money. Many players give their time to spend a little happiness, sort of volunteering.

 

It’s not all about the money, it’s about giving up your time to volunteer that is what a lot of charities need. Hands together for all those who volunteered.

 

This virus doesn’t see through rich and poor, you can’t buy your way out of this one. What I don’t see is the wealthy and so called celebrity giving their time except to make jingles for the tele. I see lots of low paid workers getting up and going out to help. Usual “I’m too important” nonsense. Let’s hope we all remember those that volunteered and on low pay, I doubt it though. As the song goes “once I made you rich enough, rich enough to forget my name.

[Chewy]

Fair point, I think people moaning should be people who have volunteered to help if they can.

[whelk]

Pep donated €1m last month to help Spain fight virus. His mum passed away today.

[whelk]

What a cnt

 

[ooh it's a corner]

Damned if they do and damned if they don't at the moment.

 

I do think the football fraternity would be best served by avoiding social media until after this is all over.

[whelk]

Liverpool backtracked but hollow as solely reaction to;outrage.