Coronavirus Discussion Thread

[Minsk]

The best outcome, purely from a footballing point of view, is for the season to finish before contracts run out. For obvious reasons that's extremely unlikely to happen.

 

Personally I think the season will eventually end up voided due to the issue of contracts ending at the end of June preventing the season from ending fairly.

 

It's possible they'll decide that finishing the season later is preferable to voiding it, whenever that happens to be, but imagine one of the teams in the relegation mix goes out and buys a load of players and escapes.

If you prevent any players signing until the season finishes, you still can't force players to carry on that are out of contract, or finishing loans, which also distorts the finish.

 

Purely from a competition point of view, the only option I can see to finish fairly is to cancel it, otherwise you have to change the rules and/or players that teams started the season with outside of what was agreed at the start.

As far as I can see, it's only the money in the game posing an existential threat to leagues and clubs, that's pushing people towards wanting to compromise on the sporting integrity. To be able to finish the season and apply qualification and promotion/relegation etc.

 

All of this is completely separate from next season, which we can go into with full knowledge of the existence of COVID-19 and adjust the rules to be able to cope with possible delays etc.

 

Obviously Liverpool are the biggest losers in that scenario, and it's difficult to think of a team that would have been treated more harshly than them missing out like this, but literally every aspect of our life has been knocked sideways by a global pandemic, and there's no way to keep everyone happy with the outcome here.

 

Obviously it's not time to say that the season should be voided now, as long as there's still a small possibility the season can be ended fairly, but as time carries on I think it'll become more and more likely.

 

Starting to look more unlikely the Scottish League will finish, for what it's worth;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52092857

 

It's not the footballers that will be the problem, it'll be the response of the public that'll be the concern.

 

Can you really see Liverpool fans sitting at home and staying isolated when they win their first title for three decades?

 

In Italy they're literally taking ventilators away from older patients to save younger ones that are more likely to survive. It's a horrible, horrible situation, from people's absolute worst nightmares, made real, and the only reason it's happening is because it's the least horrible option. People are dying not because of the tragedy of not being able to overcome the virus, but because there's no treatment available because too many people are sick.

 

Here we might just about have done enough to avoid that. Maybe. And it'll all have been for nothing if we let up too soon and end up with a second peak that pushes us above capacity to treat it.

 

This goes so far beyond football... it's not something we can treat lightly in any way, shape or form.

 

Spot on Jimmy.

 

Further more, if the proposal to play matches in June/July does go ahead:

 

Any resumption of the season will have skewed results to those that would have happened if all matches had occurred as planned at the start of the season. Players who were injured will then be available (i.e. Kane was out for the season but will most likely be able to play in June/July - there is no doubt Spurs are a different outfit when he plays); there will be no home advantage; weather conditions will be completely different (how will Burnley manage to get any points without howling winds?); etc. So any relegations/promotions (or lack there of) could still face legal battles.

 

To mitigate somewhat against these a rule would have to be brought in that no clubs could field any players who would not have been available when he original fixtures were scheduled to be played. Very hard to police in regard to injuries, but could easily be brought in in regard to players not signed for the season/loaned players. What couldn't be enforced is making players play who are out of contract on June 30 after their those contracts expire. I guess it will be relatively easy to extend loan deals into July - if all parties are in agreement.

 

The absolute hardest thing to do would be to keep covidiot fans away from the fixtures and to stop them partying in their home towns/cities - especially when titles/promotions are won. With this in mind, it may be one thing for the football authorities to have a plan to conclude the season - but the government/police may well not permit it to happen (in June/July).

 

Just void the season and start it all again this September with teams as they were a year previous - if normality has resumed by then.

[SW5 SAINT]

Would only take one player or support staff to show symptoms and the whole thing would go down in flames. I suppose it very much depends what the situation is by then.

 

I don’t see how they can just complete the Premier league season and void the rest. Imagine the outcry from likes of Leeds and West Brom......

[sambosa75]

What are you on about, very much in their favour. They’d have won the ****ing league by now. I’d say things are very much going against them. It’s easy to be blasé about voiding it when your teams in mid table and will have a 9-0 wiped from the record. If we needed 2 points from 9 games to make the champions league, you’d be one of the first moaning.

 

 

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Bloody great though isn’t it?

[Batman]

I think the Premier League (Clubs and Players) have acted appallingly through this. Always championing their own 'community' causes and all that.

Look at the state of Spurs, Newcastle and now Bournemouth!

 

Thing is, at worst (for the clubs), some fans will be mortified and give them hell for a short while (along with a very very small section of the media) and at best, fans will be angry now but quickly forget the moment their club goes on a good run.

 

I see the PFA are blocking any pay cut (so far).

 

To be honest, I am absolutely staggered by this, from the Premier League clubs and players anyway. Even our own club, have done nothing (publicly) but we get to read what Alex McCarthy is doing on his days off....and I suspect some fans are lapping it up......my god

 

Look at this..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/29/police-investigate-after-jack-grealish-pictured-at-traffic-incident

 

Villa fans sticking up for their bloke on villatalk message board. Madness

Edited 1 April, 2020 by Batman

[Turkish]

I think the Premier League (Clubs and Players) have acted appallingly through this. Always championing their own 'community' causes and all that.

Look at the state of Spurs, Newcastle and now Bournemouth!

 

Thing is, at worst (for the clubs), some fans will be mortified and give them hell for a short while (along with a very very small section of the media) and at best, fans will be angry now but quickly forget the moment their club goes on a good run.

 

I see the PFA are blocking any pay cut (so far).

 

To be honest, I am absolutely staggered by this, from the Premier League clubs and players anyway. Even our own club, have done nothing (publicly) but we get to read what Alex McCarthy is doing on his days off....and I suspect some fans are lapping it up......my god

 

Look at this..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/29/police-investigate-after-jack-grealish-pictured-at-traffic-incident

 

Villa fans sticking up for their bloke on villatalk message board. Madness

 

I actually find it staggering that players are being encouraged not to take pay cuts meanwhile premier league clubs paying players £80,£90, £100k a week are putting back office staff earning a third of that a year on furlough and clubs down the pyramid are close to going out of business. The peoples game yet again proving it's anything but.

[skintsaint]

Shame the club can't put the players on a 'jobkeeper' allowance like workers over here are on, as their jobs can't be carried out but the Govt don't employers to sack people. Imagine the top players trying to live on $750pw.

[Turkish]

Shame the club can't put the players on a 'jobkeeper' allowance like workers over here are on, as their jobs can't be carried out but the Govt don't employers to sack people. Imagine the top players trying to live on $750pw.

 

The players will argue they have fitness programs to stick too so are keeping fit so still working, effectively working from home. It's more the moral issue here. CLubs and players have had their snouts in the trough for years earning ridiculous sums for not very much, milking every penny out of of fans. It time to give something back.

[egg]

I actually find it staggering that players are being encouraged not to take pay cuts meanwhile premier league clubs paying players £80,£90, £100k a week are putting back office staff earning a third of that a year on furlough and clubs down the pyramid are close to going out of business. The peoples game yet again proving it's anything but.

 

2 separate issues for me. Any business not taking the opportunity to furlough staff who cannot work are nuts. Bournemouth are paying the additional element so their staff are on full pay, but the jobs are still there in due course. Whilst being furloughed, the staff will have the opportunity to take on additional work if they wish to do their bit and earn more. I can't see any benefit to the Bournemouth staff of receiving full pay outside of furlough.

 

As for footballers, they should absolutely be willing to take a pay freeze or trim at this time in order to help keep the clubs sustainable.

[benjii]

Barça players offered a 70% paycut so all staff could still be paid in full.

[aintforever]

2 separate issues for me. Any business not taking the opportunity to furlough staff who cannot work are nuts. Bournemouth are paying the additional element so their staff are on full pay, but the jobs are still there in due course. Whilst being furloughed, the staff will have the opportunity to take on additional work if they wish to do their bit and earn more. I can't see any benefit to the Bournemouth staff of receiving full pay outside of furlough.

 

As for footballers, they should absolutely be willing to take a pay freeze or trim at this time in order to help keep the clubs sustainable.

 

This. No one should moan about being on 80% pay for siting at home playing Call of Duty.

[Barry the Badger]

Just seen this article about Norwich. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52114292

 

I appreciate the government's offer was for all, but isn't it taking the **** a bit for football clubs to be using it in this way. Surely the money is really needed and meant for small to medium businesses who will go bust if they have to keep paying their staff, not for rich premier league clubs who are paying players tens of thousands a week.

[benjii]

Just seen this article about Norwich. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52114292

 

I appreciate the government's offer was for all, but isn't it taking the **** a bit for football clubs to be using it in this way. Surely the money is really needed and meant for small to medium businesses who will go bust if they have to keep paying their staff, not for rich premier league clubs who are paying players tens of thousands a week.

 

I've got no problem with football clubs using the scheme. Clubs like Saints and Norwich are medium sized businesses with high overheards and very precarious income streams. What I do have a problem with is the small cadre of players who take out millions each not chucking into the pot to make up the extra 20%.

[aintforever]

Just seen this article about Norwich. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52114292

 

I appreciate the government's offer was for all, but isn't it taking the **** a bit for football clubs to be using it in this way. Surely the money is really needed and meant for small to medium businesses who will go bust if they have to keep paying their staff, not for rich premier league clubs who are paying players tens of thousands a week.

 

There will be high paid people in other companies up and down the country too, same should apply to them as well.

[Turkish]

This. No one should moan about being on 80% pay for siting at home playing Call of Duty.

 

Do you think the government should be subsiding football clubs?

[Turkish]

There will be high paid people in other companies up and down the country too, same should apply to them as well.

 

Yes there are but not many where the disparity is so great and that their wages are basically paid for by the public. How many companies of lets say 400 employees are there where about 8% of the staff earn an average of over £3m a year and the rest earn lets say a generous £40k a year? Do you think it's unreasonable to ask the 8% to survive on lets say £2.5m for just this year so the other 92% can keep working? Or do you fully support the government subsiding football clubs?

[aintforever]

Yes there are but not many where the disparity is so great and that their wages are basically paid for by the public. How many companies of lets say 400 employees are there where about 8% of the staff earn an average of over £3m a year and the rest earn lets say a generous £40k a year? Do you think it's unreasonable to ask the 8% to survive on lets say £2.5m for just this year so the other 92% can keep working? Or do you fully support the government subsiding football clubs?

 

No I agree. The same should apply to bankers, company directors and other high earners. Or do you think the government should subsidise them?

[warsash saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52120578

 

Good article ….. one of the reasons why I have lost most of my interest in the modern game. I know Saints have yet to make a statement on staff wages, but the likes of Spurs making £68mm profits & Levy taking a £3mm bonus for delivering a stadium late but think it Ok to go cap in hand to the Govt!?

[egg]

Do you think the government should be subsiding football clubs?

 

Are you saying that football clubs, and their employees,should not be treated the same as other companies and their employees? If so, please explain w why they should be treated different to every other business/employee.

[Lighthouse]

Are you saying that football clubs, and their employees,should not be treated the same as other companies and their employees? If so, please explain w why they should be treated different to every other business/employee.

 

If the deal is that the government will pay 80% of wages up to £2500pm, this should indeed extent to footballers and the club should be able to pay them nothing. Whether it's right that millionaire footballers are taking advantage of a taxpayer funded scheme, designed to stop ordinary people losing their homes is a different matter.

 

Obviously I have every sympathy for someone who might have to put up with an outdated 2016 Aston Martin for another 6 months but the fact that more footballers haven't taken a pay cut is disappointing to say the least.

[Noodles34]

Trouble is, if football clubs couldn’t use this scheme to pay staff they’d just bin them off completely.

the players of course, will be the last to suffer.

[aintforever]

Trouble is, if football clubs couldn’t use this scheme to pay staff they’d just bin them off completely.

the players of course, will be the last to suffer.

 

Just like any other business.

[Turkish]

Are you saying that football clubs, and their employees,should not be treated the same as other companies and their employees? If so, please explain w why they should be treated different to every other business/employee.

 

Because football clubs and players after having their snout in the trough for years earning fortunes off the public have a moral obligation not to take advantage of a government support not meant for them. Unless of course you think it's absolutely fine for a 22 year old squad player with no responsibilities to carry on earning £80k a week playing on his Xbox whilst a back office worker at a club has to live off 80% of £30k a year. Football is the shining example of an industry that can support itself without being subsidised by the government.

[Turkish]

No I agree. The same should apply to bankers, company directors and other high earners. Or do you think the government should subsidise them?

 

I would certainly agree that companies with very high earners have an obligation to support those less well off. Everyone says people should be glad to get 80% and it a brilliant offer from the government, but it wasn't meant for people earning £100s of thousands a year to keep their incomes at the expense of those less well off.

[hypochondriac]

I would certainly agree that companies with very high earners have an obligation to support those less well off. Everyone says people should be glad to get 80% and it a brilliant offer from the government, but it wasn't meant for people earning £100s of thousands a year to keep their incomes at the expense of those less well off.

 

Tbf if the players are furloughed they wouldn't keep their incomes.

[Turkish]

Tbf if the players are furloughed they wouldn't keep their incomes.

 

It's not the players that are being furloughed though, it's all the back office staff.

[Noodles34]

Just like any other business.

 

but football is not like any other business

[Lord Duckhunter]

Footballers contracts mean that if they have to take a pay cut they are entitled to a free transfer. That’s one of the reason clubs won’t ask them to do so. Can anybody say hand on heart that all agents and players will act honourably once this is all over and not take advantage of that. ****ing hell, it’s hard enough to hold them to contacts when they haven’t got the right to a free.....

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

From a money saving point of view if clubs are struggling shouldn't the players be the first one furloughed? The government will give each player 2500 a month to get by and the club's can save 50k a week on each player. Where as furloughing the tea lady and kit man probably doesn't save the clubs enough money to pay a back up goal keepers wages for a week.

 

My guess is the back room staff are normal Paye employees while the players are not and so can't be furloughed?

 

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[hypochondriac]

From a money saving point of view if clubs are struggling shouldn't the players be the first one furloughed? The government will give each player 2500 a month to get by and the club's can save 50k a week on each player. Where as furloughing the tea lady and kit man probably doesn't save the clubs enough money to pay a back up goal keepers wages for a week.

 

My guess is the back room staff are normal Paye employees while the players are not and so can't be furloughed?

 

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Also the players will still be required to follow behaviour guidelines, diet, fitness levels etc and officially they are still required to be fit for the resumption of the Premier league which hasn't officially been cancelled yet beyond April. If you furlough the players the clubs won't be able to enforce any of that stuff for a minimum of three weeks. The players should definitely volunteer a wage cut though.

[aintforever]

I would certainly agree that companies with very high earners have an obligation to support those less well off. Everyone says people should be glad to get 80% and it a brilliant offer from the government, but it wasn't meant for people earning £100s of thousands a year to keep their incomes at the expense of those less well off.

 

I don’t see the issue, just tax high earners through the nose afterwards to pay for it.

[egg]

If the deal is that the government will pay 80% of wages up to £2500pm, this should indeed extent to footballers and the club should be able to pay them nothing. Whether it's right that millionaire footballers are taking advantage of a taxpayer funded scheme, designed to stop ordinary people losing their homes is a different matter.

 

Obviously I have every sympathy for someone who might have to put up with an outdated 2016 Aston Martin for another 6 months but the fact that more footballers haven't taken a pay cut is disappointing to say the least.

Oh come on, you've gone off at a tangent and completely swerved my point.

 

I agree that footballers should take some financial pain, the haves absolutely should in order to avoid the haves nots suffering financially.

 

Explain how a furloughed football club employee getting full wage (80% from the government and 20% from the employer) is prejudiced by being furloughed.

 

All businesses are taking advantage of the scheme. Football clubs can so why shouldn't they.

[egg]

Because football clubs and players after having their snout in the trough for years earning fortunes off the public have a moral obligation not to take advantage of a government support not meant for them. Unless of course you think it's absolutely fine for a 22 year old squad player with no responsibilities to carry on earning £80k a week playing on his Xbox whilst a back office worker at a club has to live off 80% of £30k a year. Football is the shining example of an industry that can support itself without being subsidised by the government.

I've not heard of any club limiting furloughed staff pay to the 80% given by the government. If staff are getting just the 80%, and the players the full 100%, that's unacceptable. However, the principle of clubs furloughing staff, topping up the 20% is not something I have an issue with personally. If you say football clubs shouldn't do it, what other businesses do you exclude? The answer is no businesses, the furlough program is available across the board.

[Turkish]

I've not heard of any club limiting furloughed staff pay to the 80% given by the government. If staff are getting just the 80%, and the players the full 100%, that's unacceptable. However, the principle of clubs furloughing staff, topping up the 20% is not something I have an issue with personally. If you say football clubs shouldn't do it, what other businesses do you exclude? The answer is no businesses, the furlough program is available across the board.

 

Barcelona players take 70% pay cut

Juventus players take 4 month wage deferal

Tottenham and Newcastle players do nothing but their clubs put back office staff on furlough within a couple of weeks

 

Of course clubs have every right to take advantage, my point is that having been awash with cash and rinsing every last penny out of their fans for years maybe clubs and players have a moral obligation to give something back at time, you obviously dont think they do, fair enough.

 

#thepeoplesgame

[Stud mark of doom]

I agree that any players taking a huge wage cut and being furloughed are probably entitled to a free transfer.

 

That rules out most of the players - but perhaps not all, given our ‘excellent’ transfer record in recent years....

[egg]

Barcelona players take 70% pay cut

Juventus players take 4 month wage deferal

Tottenham and Newcastle players do nothing but their clubs put back office staff on furlough within a couple of weeks

 

Of course clubs have every right to take advantage, my point is that having been awash with cash and rinsing every last penny out of their fans for years maybe clubs and players have a moral obligation to give something back at time, you obviously dont think they do, fair enough.

 

#thepeoplesgame

 

I understand all that, but I don't get this point that cos players cant realistically be furloughed, and aren't putting their hands up for a cut, that football clubs shouldn't be able to do what every other business is able to do and furlough staff who can't work at the moment. The staff are not prejudiced by being furloughed. Indeed, the opposite could be the case - I know people who are under furlough who are loving the opportunity to do other jobs and helping out in places where help is needed.

[Turkish]

I understand all that, but I don't get this point that cos players cant realistically be furloughed, and aren't putting their hands up for a cut, that football clubs shouldn't be able to do what every other business is able to do and furlough staff who can't work at the moment. The staff are not prejudiced by being furloughed. Indeed, the opposite could be the case - I know people who are under furlough who are loving the opportunity to do other jobs and helping out in places where help is needed.

 

Because morally its shameful that there are players at clubs earning millions of pounds a year paid for by the public since football began whilst the the clubs wont pay £30k a year to back office staff and are asking the government to bail them out. The government is basically subsiding two of the world richest football clubs, that doesn't sit well with me.

[Lighthouse]

I agree that any players taking a huge wage cut and being furloughed are probably entitled to a free transfer.

 

That rules out most of the players - but perhaps not all, given our ‘excellent’ transfer record in recent years....

 

We should try it with Boufal, Hoedt, Carrillo and Forster. It would be a terrible shame if they left on a free transfer.

[suewhistle]

Well, Zilina who are second in the Slovak league have gone bankrupt to save the club and have got rid of 17 players in their first team squad. The players were presented with a fait accompli of being paid only 20% and, partly due to the way it was done with no negotiation at all, didn't accept. If the league starts again the club say they will play the youth team..

 

The players say they were prepared to negotiate, the club say "our 2020 budget was based on earnings which are now zero". They also make the point "unfortunately we won't be the only ones who have to make radical decisions". Ain't that the truth.

[The Cat]

Eddie Howe and other members of the Bournemouth hierarchy are taking "voluntary" pay cuts after their bad press earlier.

[gammon cheeks]

Awful situation ...but this will go on for months ....only sensible solution is to void the season ( except for league cup which has been completed) .....Maybe give Liverpool some sort of bonus points and the likes of Leeds and West Brom for next season. As well as the other teams that were in the automaic promotion positions in the leagues ......just a thought

[Whitey Grandad]

Awful situation ...but this will go on for months ....only sensible solution is to void the season ( except for league cup which has been completed) .....Maybe give Liverpool some sort of bonus points and the likes of Leeds and West Brom for next season. As well as the other teams that were in the automaic promotion positions in the leagues ......just a thought

 

Yep, this season is over and already forgotten.

 

Liverpool have earned my respect but not my sympathy.

[Morse]

So billionaire owner of football club, and his CEO who is paid £7m a year, pay on average £70k a week to playing staff. But in a time of national crisis, the billionaire owner and the multimillionaire CEO lay off their staff so that the tax payer can pay their wages.

Football has become one sick puppy.

[skintsaint]

We should try it with Boufal, Hoedt, Carrillo and Forster. It would be a terrible shame if they left on a free transfer.

 

Beat me to it, could be a way to get rid of the deadwood ...every cloud and that.

[simo]

Non-League clubs getting upset about their seasons being cancelled and voided.

 

Sixty-six non-league clubs send open letter to FA over expunging season

 

Sixty-six non-league clubs have sent an open letter to the Football Association, calling for it to "urgently" reconsider the decision to expunge their seasons.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52098137

 

 

 

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I don't know if this has already been mentioned but it's also messed up both of the Southampton womens teams chance of promotion after very good seasons , Imo it should be consistent through all leagues of football none is more important than the other .

[CB Fry]

It should be consistent through all leagues of football none is more important than the other .

 

The world does not agree and quite right too.

 

There is a reason why millions of people in Malaysia don't have any desire to watch Matlock Town or Tiverton or Stafford Rangers.

[Polaroid Saint]

This - very quick n dirty - calculation shows the table after adding points for games not played, based on pints/games for the season gone. Also has GD calculated in the same way.

 

The only changes are Sheffield United using their game in hand to leap frog Wolves by two points to go 6th (dropping Wolves into 7th) and - and this is quite funny I guess - Arsenal sneakign past SPurs, by under half a point. (If you round to nearest whole point figure, they are both on 54, and Spurs GD is better... ...so, one for North London to argue over).

 

Not saying this is what I want, but clearly this shows the season can end here, as fairly as possible for all, and we crack on in the Autumn with a new season. I suspect similar calculations can be done for all divisions. Just playoffs that might have to be missed - third place team goes up...?

 

 

[Turkish]

This - very quick n dirty - calculation shows the table after adding points for games not played, based on pints/games for the season gone. Also has GD calculated in the same way.

 

The only changes are Sheffield United using their game in hand to leap frog Wolves by two points to go 6th (dropping Wolves into 7th) and - and this is quite funny I guess - Arsenal sneakign past SPurs, by under half a point. (If you round to nearest whole point figure, they are both on 54, and Spurs GD is better... ...so, one for North London to argue over).

 

Not saying this is what I want, but clearly this shows the season can end here, as fairly as possible for all, and we crack on in the Autumn with a new season. I suspect similar calculations can be done for all divisions. Just playoffs that might have to be missed - third place team goes up...?

 

 

 

if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......

[Batman]

if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......

 

be interesting to see - at the same point of a season - where a predicted spreadsheet would have had us finishing the other year, when Hughes kept us up?

[hypochondriac]

if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......

MLG would orgasm.

[mickn]

MLG would orgasm.

 

That's a thought and image I could have lived without