Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 This would be the Everton that have spent £275m more than they’ve made from transfers in the same period we’ve made a profit, yes? Is that the Everton that are currently only 2 points above Saints? Clearly our money has been better spent and is better value for points earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 I’ve not seen a single person say they want us to sign loads of expensive crap players because everyone else does. What I have seen is fans rightly question why is it we have to sell to buy when no other club does. Sorry Del, I misunderstood, but in multiple posts you've referred to the transfer activities of Bournemouth and Brighton etc as the ambition that we should be showing. Unless I'm mistaken, they've signed expensive crap players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 This would be the Everton that have spent £275m more than they’ve made from transfers in the same period we’ve made a profit, yes? The same Everton that have announced record losses, have a massive wages to turnover ratio, also have loads of players on massive wages they want to shift but can't and are whole giant 2 points above us in the Premier League? That Everton? That are also bankrolled by a Billionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 (edited) Sorry Del, I misunderstood, but in multiple posts you've referred to the transfer activities of Bournemouth and Brighton etc as the ambition that we should be showing. Unless I'm mistaken, they've signed expensive crap players. Indeed or we could also point to West Ham as well. That 'ambition' is working well for them, in the bottom 3 with David Moyes as their manager and a stadium their fans hate, fun times. I don't really get why people like Turkish can't seem to grasp its not transfer fees that are the issue its wages, we probably have/had half a million a week or more in wages that are no use to the first team either 3rd/4th choice players like Yoshida or expensive flops out on loan like Hoedt and Carrillo. And that we can't just imagine a sponsorship from nowhere to fiddle FFP numbers like Man City can, we have a high wage budget, IIRC around the 8th highest in the league and to sign new quality players we need space in said wage budget because you can't increase it massively each year because of FFP. Edited 8 February, 2020 by tajjuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Obviously. But we are the only club that has to sell to fund our signings. And what do you base that nonsense on? Even Man City are operating a revolving door policy. For a club that doesn't spend money, can you explain why we are saddled with loads of players we don't want on contracts? The answer is we do spend, but have made shocking decisions under previous regimes, and quite sensibly need to have a clear out before we commit more big money. Its really simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Indeed or we could also point to West Ham as well. That 'ambition' is working well for them, in the bottom 3 with David Moyes as their manager and a stadium their fans hate, fun times. I don't really get why people like Turkish can't seem to grasp its not transfer fees that are the issue its wages, we probably have/had half a million a week or more in wages that are no use to the first team either 3rd/4th choice players like Yoshida or expensive flops out on loan like Hoedt and Carrillo. And that we can't just imagine a sponsorship from nowhere to fiddle FFP numbers like Man City can, we have a high wage budget, IIRC around the 8th highest in the league and to sign new quality players we need space in said wage budget because you can't increase it massively each year because of FFP. Quite, its not complicated at all. Seemingly you're not an uber fan though if you actually think about and don't whinge that we lack ambition and don't support poor Ralph. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Sorry Del, I misunderstood, but in multiple posts you've referred to the transfer activities of Bournemouth and Brighton etc as the ambition that we should be showing. Unless I'm mistaken, they've signed expensive crap players. And what do you base that nonsense on? Even Man City are operating a revolving door policy. For a club that doesn't spend money, can you explain why we are saddled with loads of players we don't want on contracts? The answer is we do spend, but have made shocking decisions under previous regimes, and quite sensibly need to have a clear out before we commit more big money. Its really simple. What basis? The net spend table for the last five years. The only club to make a profit from transfers. The reference to Brighton, Bournemouth and all are not about the quality of their signings but why those clubs and all the others are able to spend more than they get from sales. The excuse that we’ve made bad signings doesn’t wash, as you you rightly point out so have all the other clubs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 What basis? The net spend table for the last five years. The only club to make a profit from transfers. The reference to Brighton, Bournemouth and all are not about the quality of their signings but why those clubs and all the others are able to spend more than they get from sales. The excuse that we’ve made bad signings doesn’t wash, as you you rightly point out so have all the other clubs too. Are you suggesting that is a bad thing? Would you prefer the club to be unsustainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Indeed or we could also point to West Ham as well. That 'ambition' is working well for them, in the bottom 3 with David Moyes as their manager and a stadium their fans hate, fun times. I don't really get why people like Turkish can't seem to grasp its not transfer fees that are the issue its wages, we probably have/had half a million a week or more in wages that are no use to the first team either 3rd/4th choice players like Yoshida or expensive flops out on loan like Hoedt and Carrillo. And that we can't just imagine a sponsorship from nowhere to fiddle FFP numbers like Man City can, we have a high wage budget, IIRC around the 8th highest in the league and to sign new quality players we need space in said wage budget because you can't increase it massively each year because of FFP. I really don’t get how people like you can’t grasp it’s not about the quality of the signings it what makes us so different to everyone else that we have to fund purchases by sales. Are we the only club to the world to have made bad signings or players on our books we can’t get rid of? Unlike you and your band of merry men I’d actually like to see us improve the squad, I don’t want us to have open top bus parades with Goa holding the net spend trophy whilst Nelly’s waving the cheque how much profit we’ve made each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Are you suggesting that is a bad thing? Would you prefer the club to be unsustainable? How are all the other clubs in the league managing to survive then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 How are all the other clubs in the league managing to survive then? By being bailed out by owners. For all the money you mention Everton have spent, they are currently only 2 points ahead, so it clearly has been Saints with better value for money spent. It is not how much you spend it is how well you spend it. Sure Saints have had lots of **** ups in recent years, and until those **** ups have left the club I think it is unlikely we'll be spending big. It is daft to have a go at the club in the transition phase where they have admitted they mess up and are now trying to resolve it. It will take a few transfer windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 By being bailed out by owners. For all the money you mention Everton have spent, they are currently only 2 points ahead, so it clearly has been Saints with better value for money spent. It is not how much you spend it is how well you spend it. Sure Saints have had lots of **** ups in recent years, and until those **** ups have left the club I think it is unlikely we'll be spending big. It is daft to have a go at the club in the transition phase where they have admitted they mess up and are now trying to resolve it. It will take a few transfer windows. Listen pal, you’re the guy who banged on for years about us spending £40m to expand the stadium which we evidently didn’t need to do then and still don’t so your opinion on these sort of things is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Listen pal, you’re the guy who banged on for years about us spending £40m to expand the stadium which we evidently didn’t need to do then and still don’t so your opinion on these sort of things is irrelevant. So you decide to ignore everything I say and bring up something completely irrelevant! How about you play the post and not the poster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 By being bailed out by owners. For all the money you mention Everton have spent, they are currently only 2 points ahead, so it clearly has been Saints with better value for money spent. It is not how much you spend it is how well you spend it. Sure Saints have had lots of **** ups in recent years, and until those **** ups have left the club I think it is unlikely we'll be spending big. It is daft to have a go at the club in the transition phase where they have admitted they mess up and are now trying to resolve it. It will take a few transfer windows. they are 2 points ahead of us whilst being terrible. we are maxing ourselves (and the small squad)......geddit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Listen pal, you’re the guy who banged on for years about us spending £40m to expand the stadium which we evidently didn’t need to do then and still don’t so your opinion on these sort of things is irrelevant. Pointless trying to argue with what effectively is a human robot. It's two separate issues; we haven't nearly spent as much as most similarly sized clubs, and what we have spent we have spent poorly. I'm of the opinion that you can pick up some seriously good players for less than £10m around Europe; well within our transfer and wage budget - we've just spaffed it on dross in recent seasons. Absolutely terrible reflection of our much trumpeted scouting dept (which is basically a gaggle of nerds measuring running gaits). If Ralph was to sign a new contract, we really should go balls deep on backing him if we need to. No more net spend cr4p... if he can achieve what he has with the meagre resources available, imagine what he could do with a squad actually assembled by him. Won't happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 they are 2 points ahead of us whilst being terrible. It was a rebuttal to Turkish complaining they had spent a lot more than Saints. Spending money is not want is important... it is how you spend it. And even though Saints have messed up some recent transfers, for value for money they are doing a lot better than Everton (having spent less and close on points) we are maxing ourselves (and the small squad)......geddit? 'Maxing' - you appear to be using that as a negative... why? 'Small squad' - again Hasenhuttl has said he deliberately wants a small squad to keep the players interested, rather than lots of senior players hanging around, not playing and knocking morale in training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 It's two separate issues; we haven't nearly spent as much as most similarly sized clubs Which clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 It was a rebuttal to Turkish complaining they had spent a lot more than Saints. Spending money is not want is important... it is how you spend it. And even though Saints have messed up some recent transfers, for value for money they are doing a lot better than Everton (having spent less and close on points) 'Maxing' - you appear to be using that as a negative... why? 'Small squad' - again Hasenhuttl has said he deliberately wants a small squad to keep the players interested, rather than lots of senior players hanging around, not playing and knocking morale in training we are max'd out. We just lack that little bit of quality in defence and in attack......that is why we are 13th in the league and not 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 we are max'd out. What does that mean? We just lack that little bit of quality in defence and in attack......that is why we are 13th in the league and not 8th There are only 4 points between Saints and 8th place. That is a tiny gap and since the end of November Saints have closed that gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 So you decide to ignore everything I say and bring up something completely irrelevant! How about you play the post and not the poster! The burden of proof is on you to convince me why we are the only club that has to fund transfers by sales, you have failed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 What does that mean? There are only 4 points between Saints and 8th place. That is a tiny gap and since the end of November Saints have closed that gap. 4 points and 20+ goals as said, we lack the quality to sit top 8 for a stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 The burden of proof is on you to convince me why we are the only club that has to fund transfers by sales, you have failed so far. You still don't understand how 'burden of proof' works! You made the claim that Saints are the only side, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 You still don't understand how 'burden of proof' works! You made the claim that Saints are the only side, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Look at the net spend table there’s your proof. Now the burden of proof is over to you pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 So you decide to ignore everything I say and bring up something completely irrelevant! How about you play the post and not the poster! You request the impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 4 points and 20+ goals as said, we lack the quality to sit top 8 for a stint. Are we still certain to be relegated as you said after 2 matches this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 How are all the other clubs in the league managing to survive then? Borrowing. On the latest figures I've seen, the mighty Bournemouth owner is owed £69m, Brighton £223m, Everton c.£325m Palace £21m. I don't want my club being run that way - give me sustainable mid table please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Borrowing. On the latest figures I've seen, the mighty Bournemouth owner is owed £69m, Brighton £223m, Everton c.£325m Palace £21m. I don't want my club being run that way - give me sustainable mid table please. You're quoting figures from the Club accounts for 2017-18 Same article says we also have debts of c£20m You conviniently left Leicester off your list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 You're quoting figures from the Club accounts for 2017-18 Same article says we also have debts of c£20m You conviniently left Leicester off your list Nothing convenient Glasgow, people cite the clubs I've mentioned as those who's spending we should match. I referred to the latest snapshot figures for those clubs I could find. Our latest accounts are up to y/e 06/18 so there's nothing recent available. Of course we have debt, any business with a turnover of £148m and wage bill of £110m has debt. The point is that we're not propped up by borrowing from our owner. We're sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Nothing convenient Glasgow, people cite the clubs I've mentioned as those who's spending we should match. I referred to the latest snapshot figures for those clubs I could find. Our latest accounts are up to y/e 06/18 so there's nothing recent available. Of course we have debt, any business with a turnover of £148m and wage bill of £110m has debt. The point is that we're not propped up by borrowing from our owner. We're sustainable. All you've shown is that Palace have the same debt as us and that Brighton built debt paying for a new stadium, promotion from the championship and training facilities. + Everton owners fund clubs via shares rather than loans and Leicester are proof that you can invest in the club without building loads of debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 All you've shown is that Palace have the same debt as us and that Brighton built debt paying for a new stadium, promotion from the championship and training facilities. + Everton owners fund clubs via shares rather than loans and Leicester are proof that you can invest in the club without building loads of debt Why other clubs borrow you don't know. The fact is that the other clubs that I constantly read that we should emulate do borrow. If other clubs loans have been converted to equity it suggests an inability to repay the borrowing. That doesn't suggest a sustainable model. The fundamental point raised above is why we need to sell to buy. If you look at our latest published accounts, the answers are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 Every club has to sell to buy. PL clubs are restricted to 25 players over 21 years old. You can't keep buying without selling/loaning players out. There's a restriction on how many players you can register in your PL squad, but no restriction on how many you can have on your club's books. Newcastle still had five senior players left out when they submitted their squad at the start of the season. There's no rule saying every player above 21 taking a wage has to either be in the PL squad or loaned out/sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 There's a restriction on how many players you can register in your PL squad, but no restriction on how many you can have on your club's books. Newcastle still had five senior players left out when they submitted their squad at the start of the season. There's no rule saying every player above 21 taking a wage has to either be in the PL squad or loaned out/sold. I know, but to have more than you can register is daft. At the very least you then need to look at loaning them out. So my point remains valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 I know, but to have more than you can register is daft. At the very least you then need to look at loaning them out. So my point remains valid. I thought your point was that clubs were obliged to sell before they buy, not just that it was prudent to do so, which is another argument entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 All you've shown is that Palace have the same debt as us and that Brighton built debt paying for a new stadium, promotion from the championship and training facilities. + Everton owners fund clubs via shares rather than loans and Leicester are proof that you can invest in the club without building loads of debt But Crystal Palace have NEVER made a Bad signing. that Christian Benteke, £30m transfer fee, £120k a week banging them i tell you, week in week out, no stopping him. Him and Connor Wickham up front, the envy of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 But Crystal Palace have NEVER made a Bad signing. that Christian Benteke, £30m transfer fee, £120k a week banging them i tell you, week in week out, no stopping him. Him and Connor Wickham up front, the envy of Europe. So your argument has come down to the fact that cos Palace have a couple of lemons we should give Ralph loads of money to spend? Blimey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 But Crystal Palace have NEVER made a Bad signing. that Christian Benteke, £30m transfer fee, £120k a week banging them i tell you, week in week out, no stopping him. Him and Connor Wickham up front, the envy of Europe. And the "German Messi" Max Meyer on 170k per week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 I know, but to have more than you can register is daft. At the very least you then need to look at loaning them out. So my point remains valid. But it does not matter if the manager wants them or we can afford them or can register them in our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 So your argument has come down to the fact that cos Palace have a couple of lemons we should give Ralph loads of money to spend? Blimey. No pal, just pointing out we aren’t the only club to make bad signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 And the "German Messi" Max Meyer on 170k per week. We certainly dodged a bullet there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 8 February, 2020 Share Posted 8 February, 2020 I see the forum bullies are out in force, thinking that by shouting louder, that their point of view is more valued. Once again, a thread is hi-jacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 I see the forum bullies are out in force, thinking that by shouting louder, that their point of view is more valued. Once again, a thread is hi-jacked. Yes you’re right, isn’t it a shame. We must not let them win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 You're quoting figures from the Club accounts for 2017-18 Same article says we also have debts of c£20m You conviniently left Leicester off your list Leicester who the last two summers have sold a player for £80 million and before that £60 million? That Leicester? Who have pretty much just spent what they received in sales. Nah they don;t sell to buy....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 Leicester who the last two summers have sold a player for £80 million and before that £60 million? That Leicester? Who have pretty much just spent what they received in sales. Nah they don;t sell to buy....... When you say “pretty much” would you say £112m more than they made was “pretty much just spent what they received from sales” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 I see the forum bullies are out in force, thinking that by shouting louder, that their point of view is more valued. Once again, a thread is hi-jacked. I don't think Egg is a "bully" he just has a different opinion! That's fine as this is a forum and ALL genuine opinions are welcome. It's those with NO opinions that make this place very dull. You have an opinion right Gingles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 When you say “pretty much” would you say £112m more than they made was “pretty much just spent what they received from sales” We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are we are we are we are we are we are we are.... etc Oh, and we must sell before we buy. Everyone else does. Except they run into a deficit when they do, we don't. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are we are we are we are we are we are we are.... etc Oh, and we must sell before we buy. Everyone else does. Except they run into a deficit when they do, we don't. Ever. You have to remember crabs that are the only club who has made bad signings, we are the only club who has expensive players on our books we cant sell. We are the only club that has to pay agents fees, bonuses and national insurance contributions. I don’t know what people like you and me are thinking when we are DEMANDING we spend 100s of millions on more crap players. I don’t want my club to do a Pompey which is exactly what would happen if we decided our aims were higher than survival and winning the net spend trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 give me sustainable mid table please. The dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are self-sustainable club. We are we are we are we are we are we are we are.... etc Oh, and we must sell before we buy. Everyone else does. Except they run into a deficit when they do, we don't. Ever. Also are we still paying off the debts Cortese built up? That one was dragged on for years too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 9 February, 2020 Share Posted 9 February, 2020 I don't think Egg is a "bully" he just has a different opinion! That's fine as this is a forum and ALL genuine opinions are welcome. It's those with NO opinions that make this place very dull. You have an opinion right Gingles? I do indeed, I think you are the biggest troll on here, and a very brave man! one who throws insults around from the safety of your keyboard. I agree that it’s all about opinions, but the attacks on MLG are a constant, and you Mr, are one of the biggest culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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