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Summer 2020 transfer business


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3 minutes ago, Dusic said:

From reading the reports from Germany and also Blackmore's snippet (and we know where that came from) I am inclined to believe we are/were interested but are also realistic that we aren't going to be spending €25m on anyone this summer and have a wage structure that we won't break for anyone apart from Big Fraser.

With other interest and the timing of Blackmore's info it must be highly unlikely that we sign him.

It does sound like we have already offered a financial package for he played though! Whether that would be enough to get him interested or not, who knows.

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52 minutes ago, Dusic said:

From reading the reports from Germany and also Blackmore's snippet (and we know where that came from) I am inclined to believe we are/were interested but are also realistic that we aren't going to be spending €25m on anyone this summer and have a wage structure that we won't break for anyone apart from Big Fraser.

With other interest and the timing of Blackmore's info it must be highly unlikely that we sign him.

Accurate, I would say.

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It's such shit timing that we have such a good manager in charge of us when we have such an horrific owner, it feels like a waste. A tiny bit of ambition and we'd be laughing, but no, sell, sell sell before a penny is spent. God forbid we actually spent something we didn't generate ourselves from a sale.

Edited by S-Clarke
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3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's such shit timing that we have such a good manager in charge of us when we have such an horrific owner, it feels like a waste. A tiny bit of ambition and we'd be laughing, but no, sell, sell sell before a penny is spent. God forbid we actually spent something we didn't generate ourselves from a sale.

TBF you could say that about most of our recent history, except for a brief period between 2009-2013.

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1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

TBF you could say that about most of our recent history, except for a brief period between 2009-2013.

Possibly, but it does feel like we're totally strangled at the moment though. We couldn't even bring in KWP until we'd shifted out Cedric, so we're even dependant on money from players leaving to bring in a loan. We had to sell Targett before we could get Adams last year. We're waiting for Hoj to go so we can then pay for Salisu and KWP. Are we in financial ruin or something?

It's a sad state of affairs really.

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Just now, S-Clarke said:

Possibly, but it does feel like we're totally strangled at the moment though. We couldn't even bring in KWP until we'd shifted out Cedric, so we're even dependant on money from players leaving to bring in a loan. We had to sell Targett before we could get Adams last year. We're waiting for Hoj to go so we can then pay for Salisu and KWP. Are we in financial ruin or something?

It's a sad state of affairs really.

Clubs are restricted in terms of the number of senior players, so it is sensible to try and shift them first. If you brought in players before you made room in the squad for them then you'd be screwed if you were then unable to shift the players you no longer want. We already have a lot of players we can't sell.

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14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's such shit timing that we have such a good manager in charge of us when we have such an horrific owner, it feels like a waste. A tiny bit of ambition and we'd be laughing, but no, sell, sell sell before a penny is spent. God forbid we actually spent something we didn't generate ourselves from a sale.

Get your point, but the biggest issue was the bodging of the money we have generated.  The Unsellables have really handcuffed us massively.

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16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's such shit timing that we have such a good manager in charge of us when we have such an horrific owner, it feels like a waste. A tiny bit of ambition and we'd be laughing, but no, sell, sell sell before a penny is spent. God forbid we actually spent something we didn't generate ourselves from a sale.

When we have north of £60m worth of dross out on loan, whose baulk of wages we've been carrying, it's hardly surprising we're not cracking the cheque book open.

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6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's such shit timing that we have such a good manager in charge of us when we have such an horrific owner, it feels like a waste. A tiny bit of ambition and we'd be laughing, but no, sell, sell sell before a penny is spent. God forbid we actually spent something we didn't generate ourselves from a sale.

Horrific owner😂. We'd be in the Championship and bankrupt if Kat and her useless minions were still running the show, imagine if we had been relegated with the likes of Forster, Lemina, Hoedt... still on the books. We don't spend beyond what we generate from a sale because we don't make any operational profit due to our inflated wage bill. And if your definition of a good owner is someone who will put his own money in to a business which has a £150m turnover, well... there are not that many sovereign wealth funds around.

I mean, genuine question, other than throwing his own money at us, what exactly would you like Gao to have done differently. Since he bought the club Krueger, Wilson and Reed have all been kicked out and replaced, Hasenhüttl hired. And bear in mind the dross we signed in 2017 and 2018 were the responsibility of the aforementioned useless minions, even if Gao did buy the club before some of them had been signed.

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2 minutes ago, Cartman said:

Horrific owner😂. We'd be in the Championship and bankrupt if Kat and her useless minions were still running the show, imagine if we had been relegated with the likes of Forster, Lemina, Hoedt... still on the books. We don't spend beyond what we generate from a sale because we don't make any operational profit due to our inflated wage bill. And if your definition of a good owner is someone who will put his own money in to a business which has a £150m turnover, well... there are not that many sovereign wealth funds around.

I mean, genuine question, other than throwing his own money at us, what exactly would you like Gao to have done differently. Since he bought the club Krueger, Wilson and Reed have all been kicked out and replaced, Hasenhüttl hired. And bear in mind the dross we signed in 2017 and 2018 were the responsibility of the aforementioned useless minions, even if Gao did buy the club before some of them had been signed.

No, I didn't mean Kat - I meant Gao, utterly awful owner.

What did I expect him to do differently? Speak...? Tell us what his intentions are, show us some plans for what he wants to do with us. All he has done is sat back, left the running of the club to other people (there may be advantages to that, for sure), not invested penny and saddled us with the most dodgy of sponsorship deals in history. The team have got themselves playing well, we've got a good manager for sure, but the backdrop is still the same as it was - we need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places. I don't want us to tread water and it just feels like that's all we'll do until Gao goes.

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16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

No, I didn't mean Kat - I meant Gao, utterly awful owner.

What did I expect him to do differently? Speak...? Tell us what his intentions are, show us some plans for what he wants to do with us. All he has done is sat back, left the running of the club to other people (there may be advantages to that, for sure), not invested penny and saddled us with the most dodgy of sponsorship deals in history. The team have got themselves playing well, we've got a good manager for sure, but the backdrop is still the same as it was - we need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places. I don't want us to tread water and it just feels like that's all we'll do until Gao goes.

To be honest Kat was exactly the same, so all in all nothing has changed except Kat was swiss and Gao is chinese.

And i ve seen some have a pop on here on the fact that our owner is from china.

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25 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

No, I didn't mean Kat - I meant Gao, utterly awful owner.

What did I expect him to do differently? Speak...? Tell us what his intentions are, show us some plans for what he wants to do with us. All he has done is sat back, left the running of the club to other people (there may be advantages to that, for sure), not invested penny and saddled us with the most dodgy of sponsorship deals in history. The team have got themselves playing well, we've got a good manager for sure, but the backdrop is still the same as it was - we need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places. I don't want us to tread water and it just feels like that's all we'll do until Gao goes.

Yes, I know you meant Gao is a horrific owner, that is what I am questioning. If Kat was still the owner, the clowns she put running the club after ousting Cortese may well have sunk us by now. Look at where we were going until Gao replaced everyone in late 2018.

Speak? Who cares? Actions speak louder than words, Mansour and Abramovich never say anything either. The club is now in better shape than when he bought us, ultimately that is what matters.

Not invested? The list of football club owners or potential owners who will put their own money into a club with a £150m turnover that is competing with, among others, 6 clubs with at least 3 times the turnover is very small. The days someone like Jack Walker could come in, throw a few million quid and win the league are long gone. The only owners now putting their own money in are either sovereign wealth funds or in the lower leagues.

Dodgy sponsorship? What does that matter? If they go bankrupt we get another sponsor. Half the league is sponsored by random betting companies I have never heard of anyway, who the hell are ManBetX who sponsor Wolves?

Need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places? Sure, us and 13 other clubs in this league (make that 14 with Kroenke and maybe 15 with ENIC). But until the China Investment Corporation take a liking to us it is not going to get much better no matter who owns us. It could be a hell of a lot worse though.

 

Edited by Cartman
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Saints are basically run at a profit/loss of zero. If you want an owner who will cover big losses then we don’t have one. 
 

I love how the Gordon Brown approach of describing spending as investment has caught on.

I’m going down the pub tomorrow and might invest in a few pints of beer. If I get hungry, I might invest in a pack of crisps. I’ll also invest in a taxi to drive me home etc

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4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Possibly, but it does feel like we're totally strangled at the moment though. We couldn't even bring in KWP until we'd shifted out Cedric, so we're even dependant on money from players leaving to bring in a loan. We had to sell Targett before we could get Adams last year. We're waiting for Hoj to go so we can then pay for Salisu and KWP. Are we in financial ruin or something?

It's a sad state of affairs really.

Exactly my thoughts. I got fed up of the majority shareholder & the clear zero lack of investment or ambition. Flawed from the outset. I thought, if I’ve nothing positive or worthwhile to contribute, not to bother until Semmens returns as I am sure things must improve. Remember the string of platitudes banded by the club l?! 

As it seems, this window is the crux of the matter. The postponed to the next window to the next window to this next window, to THIS window. Let’s hope it’s as exciting as the media department has alluded to and failed to deliver on countless windows. I’m confident we will now improve & we have little choice. We have shed so many. If we do recruit well in the transfer market, I think it may be down to the external investment rather than our ownership but I don’t wanna get embroiled in that tedious topic. I love a positive transfer window when they actually sign wisely. Remember them? 😉
 

Salisu is a good start. KWP also good but I would take Cash over him any day of the week. We had scintillating form & I like KWP but a short display while playing at an unprecedented peak time should not allow us to have our pants pulled down by Levy. Seems we may have actually learnt from a mistake by asking for isolated deals & standing firm with Højbjerg & Zahavi who has ruffled some feathers but no surprise. Reed will be an interesting addition. I just hope he is given a proper chance rather than left on the sidelines as Ralph can do, killing the confidence he has undoubtedly harvested at Fulham. He marshalls  the midfield. 

Weston Mc Kennie is the ideal type of target / replacement we should be after to push on (if up to scratch) & not dilute the quality (it won’t dilute as I don’t rate Højbjerg at all) but I feel we won’t complete this transfer due to money IF we don’t get full expectation from Højbjerg sale. Perhaps sensible. I feel we may follow our old habit & end up with a cut price European squad midfield player hoping for potential which won’t significantly improve us as a squad but we will have Reed. I’m happy about that. It’s the defence that is our prime area of focus. Salisu & KWP I hope announced any day  (or Matty Cash) and a replacement for Vestergaard will help. 

Does anyone know if our alluded American investment is propping up this window? I’m sure it’s not from our owner. 

Edited by Gordon Mockles
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On 08/08/2020 at 19:17, Lighthouse said:

Defence is the weakest part of our team and all of our centre backs are mediocre at best, JB included. He won’t be going to Chelsea.

I like Bednarek for sheer blocking ability but Stephens has developed well this season. Bednarek does sometimes commit the opposition scoring scenario but you can’t criticise his commitment. If Salisu is signed as many well placed sources suggest, then first choice as I would hope, would it be Stephens and Salisu or Salisu & Bednarek. Smart money says Stephens as he will learn more and improve and is a higher sellable asset, being English. I hate that I have to talk about a player like that, but that’s how we work. 
 

I’d love us to push on this season with 3 or 4 well placed, additions that significantly improve the starting 11. I believe we will. 

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6 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

To be honest Kat was exactly the same, so all in all nothing has changed except Kat was swiss and Gao is chinese.

And i ve seen some have a pop on here on the fact that our owner is from china.

It’s not entirely insignificant though. His company was expropriated by that state, which is a country with a very different approach to life and business than “ours”. He’s an economic fugitive, of sorts, whose apparent sole motivation is shielding some cash from the Chinese government. He’s been in hoc to the authorities ever since he was implicated in a bribery trial and would fail the current directors and owners test.

And we don’t know why we needed to take an £80m loan out last month. Maybe it’s to cover some COVID shortfalls, maybe it’s something significant. We don’t know. But the accounts didn’t say we’d made provision to increase our facility to £80m, they said we’d actually drawn it down.

The positives are that he doesn’t seem to be some sort of Vincent Tan / Rupert Lowe mentalist and seems to accept he doesn’t have anything to offer, but that’s really it.

Edited by benjii
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7 hours ago, Cartman said:

Yes, I know you meant Gao is a horrific owner, that is what I am questioning. If Kat was still the owner, the clowns she put running the club after ousting Cortese may well have sunk us by now. Look at where we were going until Gao replaced everyone in late 2018.

Speak? Who cares? Actions speak louder than words, Mansour and Abramovich never say anything either. The club is now in better shape than when he bought us, ultimately that is what matters.

Not invested? The list of football club owners or potential owners who will put their own money into a club with a £150m turnover that is competing with, among others, 6 clubs with at least 3 times the turnover is very small. The days someone like Jack Walker could come in, throw a few million quid and win the league are long gone. The only owners now putting their own money in are either sovereign wealth funds or in the lower leagues.

Dodgy sponsorship? What does that matter? If they go bankrupt we get another sponsor. Half the league is sponsored by random betting companies I have never heard of anyway, who the hell are ManBetX who sponsor Wolves?

Need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places? Sure, us and 13 other clubs in this league (make that 14 with Kroenke and maybe 15 with ENIC). But until the China Investment Corporation take a liking to us it is not going to get much better no matter who owns us. It could be a hell of a lot worse though.

 

Excellent post and pretty much my thoughts. There's zero point moaning bout the lack of money not being pumped in by someone who either can't or won't do it. Until Gao goes and someone with deep pockets and long arms comes in, we need to accept that what we have is all we have, and that it'll mean scraping by. 

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7 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Saints are basically run at a profit/loss of zero. If you want an owner who will cover big losses then we don’t have one. 
 

I love how the Gordon Brown approach of describing spending as investment has caught on.

I’m going down the pub tomorrow and might invest in a few pints of beer. If I get hungry, I might invest in a pack of crisps. I’ll also invest in a taxi to drive me home etc

Exactly. I've been slaughtered for making the same point. Throwing in money that'll never get back isn't investment. 

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3 hours ago, egg said:

Exactly. I've been slaughtered for making the same point. Throwing in money that'll never get back isn't investment. 

"investing" to the average football fan though is spending and then spending some more and then spend more and if those players dont work out spend  more. BUY BUY BUY and if a player plays up let them rot in the reserves. It's a bit like the cliche that we need a 20 goal a season striker, well so does every club, the problem is there aren't many 20 goal a season strikers around, the ones that are usually play for the biggest clubs. Now Ings has scored 20 goals we are apparently too reliant on him so we HAVE to "invest" in another striker. 

Just for the record my issue with much of this is why we are the only club that has to sell players to buy new ones. People go on about agents fees, bonuses, loyalty payments etc but every single other club has those too and in fact Saints are usually towards the bottom of the table when agents fees are listed, so that one doesn't wash. Those same people then boast about us being a well run club when we have a load of crap players on big wages that we cant give away, we might be now but it's now down to the current regime to make up for the errors of 3-4 years ago, when we were still having to sell to buy. 

Edited by Turkish
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13 hours ago, Cartman said:

Yes, I know you meant Gao is a horrific owner, that is what I am questioning. If Kat was still the owner, the clowns she put running the club after ousting Cortese may well have sunk us by now. Look at where we were going until Gao replaced everyone in late 2018.

Speak? Who cares? Actions speak louder than words, Mansour and Abramovich never say anything either. The club is now in better shape than when he bought us, ultimately that is what matters.

Not invested? The list of football club owners or potential owners who will put their own money into a club with a £150m turnover that is competing with, among others, 6 clubs with at least 3 times the turnover is very small. The days someone like Jack Walker could come in, throw a few million quid and win the league are long gone. The only owners now putting their own money in are either sovereign wealth funds or in the lower leagues.

Dodgy sponsorship? What does that matter? If they go bankrupt we get another sponsor. Half the league is sponsored by random betting companies I have never heard of anyway, who the hell are ManBetX who sponsor Wolves?

Need a change at the top to really do anything other than hover in the mid-table/relegation places? Sure, us and 13 other clubs in this league (make that 14 with Kroenke and maybe 15 with ENIC). But until the China Investment Corporation take a liking to us it is not going to get much better no matter who owns us. It could be a hell of a lot worse though.

 

Well said, Cartman.

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Dutch football website VI reporting that Saints, along with a dozen Italian, German and Turkish clubs are interested in signing Dutch RB/wing back Rick Karsdorp from AS Roma.
 

Karsdorp (25) spent last season on loan at Feyenoord. However due to the Corona virus and injuries he played just 20 games. 
 

Imo Karsdorp won’t be a good signing. Yes he works hard and has the talent, however he is injury prone and with the PL being tougher then the Serie A, it might just be to fast and physical. 

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I'd take it with a pinch of salt, Doc.

We are going ahead with KWP. Assuming we keep Valery as backup, then we are stocked. I can't see any others being considered. I read over the weekend Everton wanted to give us a good deal on JonJoe Kenny. I would imagine the press are simply seeing the KwP stories and putting up other RB candidates.

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7 hours ago, Turkish said:

"investing" to the average football fan though is spending and then spending some more and then spend more and if those players dont work out spend  more. BUY BUY BUY and if a player plays up let them rot in the reserves. It's a bit like the cliche that we need a 20 goal a season striker, well so does every club, the problem is there aren't many 20 goal a season strikers around, the ones that are usually play for the biggest clubs. Now Ings has scored 20 goals we are apparently too reliant on him so we HAVE to "invest" in another striker. 

Just for the record my issue with much of this is why we are the only club that has to sell players to buy new ones. People go on about agents fees, bonuses, loyalty payments etc but every single other club has those too and in fact Saints are usually towards the bottom of the table when agents fees are listed, so that one doesn't wash. Those same people then boast about us being a well run club when we have a load of crap players on big wages that we cant give away, we might be now but it's now down to the current regime to make up for the errors of 3-4 years ago, when we were still having to sell to buy. 

What other clubs can and do doesn't alter that when you look at our accounts, it's quite clear that we have to sell to buy. The only way that'll change is if a money no object sugar daddy comes along and "invests" in the way you describe. 

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9 minutes ago, egg said:

What other clubs can and do doesn't alter that when you look at our accounts, it's quite clear that we have to sell to buy. The only way that'll change is if a money no object sugar daddy comes along and "invests" in the way you describe. 

TBF though if we imagine a scenario where we hadn't spent so much on lemina, carillo, hoedt, forsters new contract, elyonoussi then we wouldn't be in the same situation. 

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Omar Elabdellaoui, previously linked in transfer windows gone by, is out of contract at Olympiakos and moving on.

 

I wouldn't want him over KWP but a free transfer to add some depth/competition and allow Valery to go out on loan? Ralph's full backs get through a lot of work so good depth would be worth having even though it's certainly not a priority.

 

He's an experienced player having played in the premier league, captained Olympiakos and has plenty of caps for Noway. At 28 he could well be worth a three year contract if the wage was right. He can play in more than one position too so adds a bit of versatility. 

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2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Would anyone touch Fraser who left Bournemouth...still without a club, decent hard working player who could suit our system.

Depends what Boufal is doing.

I would also imagine he would want to walk straight into the team too.

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41 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

TBF though if we imagine a scenario where we hadn't spent so much on lemina, carillo, hoedt, forsters new contract, elyonoussi then we wouldn't be in the same situation. 

Agreed. The sad thing is we're stuck with them, and we can't spend the money twice. 

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4 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed. The sad thing is we're stuck with them, and we can't spend the money twice. 

So it's not really a total sell to buy scenario. You'd imagine we would have had more to play with if we hadn't hamstrung ourselves for a number of years with this baggage. The good news is that we weren't relegated with all this dross still on our books so we still have an opportunity to offload them and cut down our financial outgoings in case we do face the drop in the next few years and we'd be in a much better financial position. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So it's not really a total sell to buy scenario. You'd imagine we would have had more to play with if we hadn't hamstrung ourselves for a number of years with this baggage. The good news is that we weren't relegated with all this dross still on our books so we still have an opportunity to offload them and cut down our financial outgoings in case we do face the drop in the next few years and we'd be in a much better financial position. 

Kind of p1sses on the “we’re a well run club” mantra Though doesn’t it. We’ve been awfully run for a few years but people wouldn’t admit it. 

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30 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Kind of p1sses on the “we’re a well run club” mantra Though doesn’t it. We’ve been awfully run for a few years but people wouldn’t admit it. 

We're well run in the sense we're all but self sustaining. We've been badly run in terms of much of our recent ish transfer business. 

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2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

TBF though if we imagine a scenario where we hadn't spent so much on lemina, carillo, hoedt, forsters new contract, elyonoussi then we wouldn't be in the same situation. 

Semmens said it would take 4 or 5 transfer windows to sort the mess out. So much good work undone through some horrendous decision making.

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1 hour ago, egg said:

We're well run in the sense we're all but self sustaining. We've been badly run in terms of much of our recent ish transfer business. 

Whilst we are in the premier league we are. I dread to think of the state we’d be in had we gone down, which we really deserved to. Our self stainable model relies on Staying up and having players other clubs want to buy, we haven’t had many of them lately. I would say it’s been more down to luck than being well run up up until about 18 months ago. The current lot seem to have got it together and are now having to right the wrongs of 2-3 years of gross incompetence.

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59 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

Semmens said it would take 4 or 5 transfer windows to sort the mess out. So much good work undone through some horrendous decision making.

Well this is Ralph’s 4th and he’s only so far been allowed to bring in 3 players permanently. When the Salisu and Walker Peters deals go through that’ll be a Bigstep in the right direction. 

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6 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Been told we are very interested in bringing in a Arsenal youngster in a permanent deal.

He’s a striker who we hope will give us options off the bench.

Is this legit, Pilch? or pretend ITK?!

Edited by SuperSAINT
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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Well this is Ralph’s 4th and he’s only so far been allowed to bring in 3 players permanently. When the Salisu and Walker Peters deals go through that’ll be a Bigstep in the right direction. 

Absolutely this. Turkish :) I PM'd you the other day did you receive it? 

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4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Would anyone touch Fraser who left Bournemouth...still without a club, decent hard working player who could suit our system.

 

3 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Depends what Boufal is doing.

I would also imagine he would want to walk straight into the team too.

 

Similar sentiment, also depends on wages. Lot of press that he was after big bucks.

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16 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Absolutely this. Turkish :) I PM'd you the other day did you receive it? 

Yes I did Dave. No Q&A at the moment but rest assured as and when things progress you’ll be kept informed.

Edited by Turkish
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