Summer 2020 transfer business

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Obafemi is basically still youth.probably not gonna hurt us wages wise. And is ok to have around to see if he develops well.

long is actually useful works hard causes problems but is proven in his non scoring

the fact that adams was behind both of the former for large parts of the season doesn’t exactly inspire huge confidence.Couple of goals towards the end but would not want to rely on him if ings was out.

on paper it just looks very weak in depth 

I really can't see the strikers being anything different next season from Ings, Adams, Long & Obafemi. With Tella & N'Lundulu as development options.

If they were going to sign another senior striker then Long wouldn't have been given a new contract.

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, beavis17 said:

Hojbjerg close to Spurs move, supposed interest in Ryan Fredericks at West Ham.

'Alerted' as the image you posted says does not necessarily mean Saints are interested. It could simply be West Ham are just putting his name around and Saints have no interest. I find it difficult to see why Saints would be interested in him, Walker-Peters is a far better option and is 4 years younger.

Edited 27 July, 2020 by Matthew Le God

[SuperSAINT]

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

According to SSN we have been "alerted to the availability" of right back Ryan Fredericks from West Ham.

Downgrade on KWP.

Lyall Thomas is pretty good on Spurs news though.

Edited 27 July, 2020 by SuperSAINT

[davefizzy14]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

'Alerted' as the image you posted says does not necessarily mean Saints are interested. It could simply be West Ham are just putting his name around and Saints have no interest. I find it difficult to see why Saints would be interested in him, Walker-Peters is a far better option and is 4 years younger.

KWP has to be our number one target at RB.

[Appy]

7 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Downgrade on KWP.

Lyall Thomas is pretty good on Spurs news though.

I won’t share my feelings on Lyall Thomas and his reliability. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Appy said:

I won’t share my feelings on Lyall Thomas and his reliability. 

You kinda have by saying that! 😃

[Appy]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

You kinda have by saying that! 😃

Not officially  

[SuperSAINT]

5 minutes ago, Appy said:

I won’t share my feelings on Lyall Thomas and his reliability. 

I should have known it wasn't close.

It's not October.

[Badger]

22 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Theres more chance of us signing two good CBs in one window than there is of us signing a striker. We're fine in that dept

An injury to Ings and we're left with Adams, Long and Obafemi.  We then put our trust in Adams maintaining his end of season form for a prolonged period next season.

Not sure I'd describe that as fine.

[TWar]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

The logic is a bit flawed there. Just because they've formed a good partnership doesn't mean that we need to stop looking at ways to improve that area. You're also massively overrating them. Massively.

You then say that improving the quality of competition is important? So you agree this is a good signing then??

In the summer we will have just Stephens and Bednerak - that's not enough. Vestergaard will go, Danso will return to his parent club, Yoshida has left on a free. Signing a CB for me is number 1 priority, right back next.

Whilst Stephens and Bednerak have performed well our backline lacks pace. Spending £10m on a top league centre back, who has a very high reputation, is one of the most sensible signings this club has made in a long time.

Whislt he may not start straight away, there is a player there who can grow into the squad. This is how you improve a team and keep moving forwards. Sometimes 'good guys' who you liked and did a good job will be left behind as the club moves forward, but that's just part of football.

Yes obviously it would be not a bad thing to have a better 4th choice CB, and obviously we shouldn't "stop looking for ways to improve that area". I thought that much was so blatant that it didn't need stating. The question isn't "should we choose a better candidate over a worse one?" it is "could £15m be spent somewhere better than on a position that likely will get 2 or 3 starts all season?". Stephens and Bednarek are quality defenders who, since they have come in as a pairing, have ranked comfortably in the top half of goals conceded. Bednarek statistically is one of the best CBs in the league for clearances, blocks and interceptions (see my statistical analysis post)

You have to ask yourself, which of the following do you prefer:

Double cover for CB with Stephens or Bednarek being 4th choice and barely getting to play

or

The competition/cover for Armstrong which is better than Smallbone, Bertrand which isn't Volkins, or Che that isn't Obafemi.

No one is saying it is bad to have competition, you just have to realise if we have Stephens, Salisu and Bednarek all fighting for two spot then there is definitely multiple spots on the team that need the competition more.

So again: competition - good; lots of competition in one spot at the expense of it elsewhere - bad. Surprised some on this forum really needed this spelling out with the sort of comments on here today.

[hypochondriac]

I don't think Stephens and bednarek are quality. They are competent CBs but I'd say its our weakest position currently. 

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, Badger said:

An injury to Ings and we're left with Adams, Long and Obafemi.  We then put our trust in Adams maintaining his end of season form for a prolonged period next season.

Not sure I'd describe that as fine.

An injury to kwp and we put our trust in Valery, an injury to Bertrand and we put our trust in vokins, an injury to romeu and we put our trust in smallbone. We are fine for a striker for definite. A club like ours with a smaller budget has to take proportionate risks. We can't really afford to have top quality players sat on the bench. 

Edited 27 July, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't think Stephens and bednarek are quality. They are competent CBs but I'd say its our weakest position currently. 

They aren’t quality. They have good games but time and again they show lapses in concentration which leads to opportunities for the opposition, sometimes we get away with it sometimes we don’t. The lapses are often in games where we have most of the ball, both of them often caught out by a long ball forward or not marking players in the area properly and it’s happened regularly for the last 3 seasons. To be blunt the claim that they are good enough for Chelsea and everyone else outside the top 6 is laughable. There is a reason why we have the 6th worst goals against for the last two seasons and it isn’t because we’ve got two quality Centre backs.

[Gingeletiss]

So, according to some on here, we need the following. A new Gk, 2 new CB’s, a new RB, a new DMF, a new RMF, a new CF, someone to challenge the LB position, and all within a rumoured budget of 20m. Glad you are not in charge.

[vectraman]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

They aren’t quality. They have good games but time and again they show lapses in concentration which leads to opportunities for the opposition, sometimes we get away with it sometimes we don’t. The lapses are often in games where we have most of the ball, both of them often caught out by a long ball forward or not marking players in the area properly and it’s happened regularly for the last 3 seasons. To be blunt the claim that they are good enough for Chelsea and everyone else outside the top 6 is laughable. There is a reason why we have the 6th worst goals against for the last two seasons and it isn’t because we’ve got two quality Centre backs.

Exactly this. It is why we are so poor at home - we leave them exposed to opposition breaks, and their positioning and reading of the game is not fantastic by a long way. 
virtually every game at home, one of the pair makes a big mistake. Not aided by us trying to be Man City (lite) and play out from the back, and putting ourselves under pressure by passing across the back and back to the keeper. Goals in the making for the opposition. They know if they press our defence, chances will come. Because our two CB’s are less than adequate. 

 

[Gordon Mockles]

6 hours ago, MarkSFC said:

Its very clear to me that we need 4 CBs. Assuming Vestergarrd does go which I hope, Salisu seems a good start. As you say though, spending maybe upwards of 15m on a 4th choice CB does seem excessive for us.

Why? 15 million is relatively small fry these days.

Until Bednarek got injured, Vestergaard was 3rd choice CB and he cost £19 million. I still can’t believe we didn’t snap Leicester's hard off for Vestergaard in January. Danso can be no more of a liability if played in position as a third choice backup if we sold Vestergaard in Jan & took the gamble until the end of the season. Oh well. Learnt the hard way...again. 

Omar Colley and Mohammed Salisu joining from Sampdoria and Real Valladolid will be a couple of welcome additions. 

[Cartman]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

So, according to some on here, we need the following. A new Gk, 2 new CB’s, a new RB, a new DMF, a new RMF, a new CF, someone to challenge the LB position, and all within a rumoured budget of 20m. Glad you are not in charge.

New signing

New signing    New signing    New signing    New signing

New signing    Ward-Prowse    New signing    New signing

New signing    Ings           

Sounds about right.

2 hours ago, vectraman said:

Exactly this. It is why we are so poor at home - we leave them exposed to opposition breaks, and their positioning and reading of the game is not fantastic by a long way. 
virtually every game at home, one of the pair makes a big mistake. Not aided by us trying to be Man City (lite) and play out from the back, and putting ourselves under pressure by passing across the back and back to the keeper. Goals in the making for the opposition. They know if they press our defence, chances will come. Because our two CB’s are less than adequate. 

 

Since the November international break when we switched to 4-4-2, we have failed to win 7 home games:

Southampton    0 : 1    West Ham

Cedric beaten to a header at the back post, no one marking Haller, should have been Hojbjerg or Stephens

Southampton    1 : 1    Crystal Palace

Stephens beaten in the air by Tomkins

Southampton    2 : 3    Wolves

First goal Stephens tries and fails to win the ball in midfield leaving the defence exposed, made worse by Hojbjerg slipping high up the pitch earlier in the move and not being able to provide cover. Second goal weak attempt at winning the ball by Hojbjerg leaves Ward-Prowse having to mark two players and poor positioning by Stephens, too far to the left having then to throw himself into a tackle and give away a penalty, Cedric was close by but he had to watch for Jimenez further to the right, it was ultimately Stephens' responsibility. Third goal Hojbjerg slow to get back to win the loose ball from the Bednarek/Traoré duel, could have beaten Jimenez to it if he had been quicker, Stephens didn't provide cover to stop the ball from reaching Traoré and also played him onside then I don't know what the fück Hojbjerg was doing, casually jogging and waving his arms about while Jimenez runs past him busting a gut to get to the end of Traoré's pass.

Southampton    1 : 2    Burnley

Bizarre defending from Ings from the corner for the first, well played by Vydra for the second

Southampton    0 : 1    Newcastle

Djenepo sent off after 28 minutes, Valery mistake for the goal

Southampton    0 : 2    Arsenal

Poor pass from McCarthy for the first, failed to save it properly for the second which came from a free kick caused by Hojbjerg's poor pass that also got Stephens sent off 

Southampton    1 : 1    Brighton

Vestergaard ball watching and allowing Murray to flick the ball on from a throw-in, Romeu should have been more aware of Maupay and better positioned to prevent the ball from reaching him

 

Conclusion based on these 7 games: Bednarek is fine, Stephens is often a liability and should be the one to lose his spot to Salisu, Hojbjerg won't be missed. Also defence isn't entirely to blame for dropping points in these games, we only conceded 1 goal in more than half of them although improvement might come even without signing any attacking players through better performances from Adams (first season at this level, much improved after the lockdown), Obafemi (only 20 and been quite effective off the bench) and Djenepo (only 22, first season here, looked promising at the start but injuries got in the way).

Edited 28 July, 2020 by Cartman

[Gordon Mockles]

5 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Theres more chance of us signing two good CBs in one window than there is of us signing a striker. We're fine in that dept

Good. A strike partner or additional striker it is then. Careful. I got shot down for suggesting that from the board Bielsas.

I would loan or push back Obafemi. May help his attitude. Bring in Colley (or alternative) and Mohammed Salisu. Sign KWP (or a more physical RB but I do like KWP). Then with Harrison Reed back, that’s shrewd strengthening and team management and a very solid squad. 

A forward is not a necessity but it would be a wise and welcome change (the club competently safe-guarding the squad rather than stupidly gambling) instead of the ridiculous risks we gambled and partly got away with this season (first half of Brighton proved that not having a full defence & making do with incapable midfielders in defence is a mentality fundamentally flawed). 

I am really excited about the new season. Finally, with Semmens returned and some sense returning to the management, a wise window and (finally) rebuilding sensibly in the right positions will galvanise our squad. 

Edited 28 July, 2020 by Gordon Mockles

[Gordon Mockles]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

So, according to some on here, we need the following. A new Gk, 2 new CB’s, a new RB, a new DMF, a new RMF, a new CF, someone to challenge the LB position, and all within a rumoured budget of 20m. Glad you are not in charge.

I expect many fans are glad you’re not in charge with your chastising & ambition depleted post.

We could list the numerous players that have left over recent windows, those inadequate failures loaned out and then explain how threadbare we are in the fact that to give our first choice defenders a rest, we played a p*ss poor and totally bewildered Højbjerg (or JWP) at RB which would have lost us the Brighton match.

Luckily Ralph saw sense in noticing how glaringly bad that team selection was (in fairness, he had limited options due to having little depth in the squad defenders but he has to rest key players for Bournemouth) and he brought on KWP who transformed the ever p*ss poor Højbjerg and Obafemi was dreadful so Che was required as a band aid. 
 

Mc Carthy has been in good form but we do not need all 3 keepers. Sell Gunn or Forster. Or bring in Forster to compete with Mc Carthy. Mc Carthy did well but he still does not inspire the confidence in me of a real top, quality PL goalkeeper. Sorry Alex. You’ve been brilliant since lockdown but I would aim higher. 

Fortunately, I think the current management have improved immeasurably and whilst we will remain relatively low in aspiration & ambition from board level, the coaches have astoundingly harvested a mentality of battling, pressing and playing exciting football which is massively commendable. I have much more faith in them making the right decisions, even under the restricted, difficult and improvident ownership.   

Edited 28 July, 2020 by Gordon Mockles

[SaintTex]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

So, according to some on here, we need the following. A new Gk, 2 new CB’s, a new RB, a new DMF, a new RMF, a new CF, someone to challenge the LB position, and all within a rumoured budget of 20m. Glad you are not in charge.

not me... priorities are:

1. one RB

2. one CB

3. one DM

with pennies left over, anything else after that would be hard to find any true quality, ie: a striker

[Baird of the land]

9 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

As we will have limited funds, I'd like to think we would prioritise a right back and a replacement for Hojbjerg rather than a 4th centre back (in terms of amount of cash going on each position). I guess it also depends on whether we can persuade someone to buy Vestergaard. 

Agree completely, hoping this 4th center back stuff is just transfer talk.

[CB Fry]

13 hours ago, The Fat Controller said:

I wonder if Les Reed negotiated a sell on clause with Liverpool for Lovren?

Being that Liverpool are selling him for less than they bought him for, unlikely.

Sell-on fees are generally about clubs profiting from onward sales as players reach their potential and their value goes up.

[SaintBobby]

What’s the academy looking like for centre backs? Anyone who can feasibly be 4th choice?

Also, are any of the first team remotely feasible makeshift centre backs? I know Bertrand has played on the left of a back three, but has he ever played in the middle of a back four? Could Romeu slot in there if we got desperate?

I’m agreeing with those who say that spending millions on a fourth choice centre back seems like over-insurance, but am struggling to think up any credible options at all if we lost 2 of the main three. Maybe we need to go for a Danso-style loan deal?

What’s the position with Yoshida? Out of contract? Was he sold or loaned to Sampdoria? Not 100% against him returning for a year, but I guess that bird has flown.

[waylander]

Alfie Jones is a CB who was on loan at Gillingham last season but played mainly as DM for them. No idea if he would be good enough for 4th CB.

[woodsaint1]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

An injury to Ings and we're left with Adams, Long and Obafemi.  We then put our trust in Adams maintaining his end of season form for a prolonged period next season.

Not sure I'd describe that as fine.

And who do Spurs have when Kane gets injured, or Wolves if Jimenez get injured, or Everton if Richarlison gets injured? In an ideal world you would have at least three very good strikers in case of injury, but problem is you have to keep them all happy. What we have at the moment in terms of striking options is enough for our top 8 ambitions. They can all score goals in the PL and offer something different. Long has just signed a new contract and Adams/Obafemi are still developing. None of them are going anywhere. Do you honestly propose buying a 5th striker? Would rather see a number 10 like Tadic brought in who can chip in with goals and help assist the strikers we have

[SaintBobby]

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

And who do Spurs have when Kane gets injured, or Wolves if Jimenez get injured, or Everton if Richarlison gets injured? In an ideal world you would have at least three very good strikers in case of injury, but problem is you have to keep them all happy. What we have at the moment in terms of striking options is enough for our top 8 ambitions. They can all score goals in the PL and offer something different. Long has just signed a new contract and Adams/Obafemi are still developing. None of them are going anywhere. Do you honestly propose buying a 5th striker? Would rather see a number 10 like Tadic brought in who can chip in with goals and help assist the strikers we have

We can’t easily compensate for losing Ings, that’s obvious. Sure, Obafemi and Long up front doesn’t look like a goal rush, but we’d probably just need to provide better support from attacking midfield - Armstrong, Redmond and Djenepo all have goals in them. I also think Redmond can play as a striker if needed.

[qwertyell]

2 minutes ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

From the championship?

[beavis17]

28 minutes ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

Can you give us age range?

[beavis17]

32 minutes ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

Duplicate

Edited 28 July, 2020 by beavis17
Duplicate

[goodymatt]

Vertonghen is a free agent, experienced and can also fill in at RB when needed. Never going to happen though?

[Mikey88]

5 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Vertonghen is a free agent, experienced and can also fill in at RB when needed. Never going to happen though?

Played LB if I remember correctly

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Vertonghen is a free agent, experienced and can also fill in at RB when needed. Never going to happen though?

I'm not sure Vertonghen plays right back? He generally only played as a centre back and a left back at Spurs. Not only that but I'd imagine his wages would be too high.

[goodymatt]

1 minute ago, Mikey88 said:

Played LB if I remember correctly

You're right, LB cover not RB. Might have been Toby that covered RB for them. We can rule him out then, rumours that united might be in for him anyway.

I thought Cahill would have been a good buy for us last season and experience is so important at CB. Think Vertonghen is 33 so not really a Saints signing (big wages and no residual value).

[beavis17]

Interesting...

[beavis17]

...

Edited 28 July, 2020 by beavis17

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, beavis17 said:

Interesting...

He's 36?? Jeez. That pretty much rules us out of that one! Let everton sweep up these hasbeens.

[MarkSFC]

59 minutes ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

nationality? current league? 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

Welcome back toby alderweireld!

 

 

PS I dont really think it's him

Edited 28 July, 2020 by Turkish

[the saint in winchester]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Welcome back toby alderweireld!

Yeah, that's what I thought too, after LeG's update.

So, LeG is excited, and I would be too, if it were to be Toby. Toby it is (official update …… not!)

[MarkSFC]

23 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Welcome back toby alderweireld!

 

9 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Yeah, that's what I thought too, after LeG's update.

So, LeG is excited, and I would be too, if it were to be Toby. Toby it is (official update …… not!)

So KWP and TA for PEH???

[Pilchards]

14 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

 

So KWP and TA for PEH???

Are you sure Spurs cast offs would be good enough for us?

Whatever next, Harry Kane?

[SuperSAINT]

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/07/28/5m-man-says-he-doesnt-want-to-join-southampton-as-director-confirms-saints-bid/

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/07/28/5m-man-says-he-doesnt-want-to-join-southampton-as-director-confirms-saints-bid/

Weird that you would be so against joining. 

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/07/28/5m-man-says-he-doesnt-want-to-join-southampton-as-director-confirms-saints-bid/

Think this is a reworking of a story from last week.

Shame really as he looks pretty decent and well suited. 

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Weird that you would be so against joining. 

Looks like it's also become a bit of a personal issue between him and his club.

On top of which Berlin no doubt offers a bit more than Southampton as a city... 

Perhaps not dissimilar to the Hojberg situation in that our interest (as Everton's) might be being used to try and secure a better deal from Hertha.

Edited 28 July, 2020 by Badger

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

Looks like it's also become a bit of a personal issue between him and his club.

On top of which Berlin no doubt offers a bit more than Southampton as a city...

Maybe. You would just think the chance to play in the biggest league in the world would be a pretty big draw. I get if he preferred to go elsewhere but to be so against it is unusual for a player to come out and state in public. For that reason maybe better we moved on. 

[beatlesaint]

12 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/07/28/5m-man-says-he-doesnt-want-to-join-southampton-as-director-confirms-saints-bid/

Well if thats how he feels bollocks. Im old enough to remember Speedie and Dixon, niether of whom, wanted to be here and it showed

[HarvSFC]

Has that Christoph Klarer not developed as hoped? Just turned 20 last month and I always thought there was talk of him coming through as a centre-back. I know he's been on loan back in Austria this season.

[trousers]

On 27/07/2020 at 11:18, trousers said:

Hi @Earthworm Jim... did you take up @LeG's offer over the weekend to DM him the name/nationality etc of the other CB signing that you're aware of? Would be good to have another ratified 'ITK' member on here....

 

On 27/07/2020 at 10:56, Earthworm Jim said:

I've been told that it's not Disasi, but a Championship CB, although not been told who.

Was expecting two contracts to be announced yesterday - seems they are taking a little longer to finalise (although bet everyone can guess the two). 

 

Edit: @trouserssorry I'm not responding quicker - these 3 posts a day are rather inconsistent and now got no more posts for some reason?? I have given the league above as he asked. 

 

3 hours ago, LeG said:

The CB I heard about is more experienced, can play RB as well and would certainly not be coming in as 4th choice. I'm quite excited by this one - hope we can get it done.

Who's on #ITK_Watch duties this week...?

Edited 28 July, 2020 by trousers

[SuperSAINT]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

Who's on #ITK_Watch duties this week...?

Always me