Saints 2-3 Wolves - Sigh...

[trousers]

Just watched the highlights on MotD. Based on those, it seems like the game could have gone either way. We certainly had enough close chances (two off the woodwork) at key times of the game to have got something from the game. Fine margins and all that. Every chance today's result was a blip rather than a relapse. It could equally be the latter of course. Time will tell (as always).

[MarkSFC]

I cant believe the way many fans are just so emotionally reactive to what is in fact just 45 minutes where we almost 3-0. The 45minjtes beforehand we won 2-0. Both halves could actually have been any score. Our team is flourishing and full of confidence. Tha k god they are professionals and understand these things unlike the majority of fans who I suspect have never played a sport to any level whatsoever!!

 

Right...bring on Palace....

[Ed Rooney]

And where were the other three defenders?

 

Probably thinking Cédric would stay with who he was marking

 

 

[wild-saint]

Jealousy, that green-eyed monster of emotions, is a powerful force. People get precious about insurance bets. They are happy to predict and say "knew we wouldn't win" but get angry and upset when others do something about it and benefit.

 

I've been "insurance betting" since Koeman left us in 2016.

 

Since he left we have played c140 league games and won just 36 of them. I therefore "win" financially c75% of the time and on days like today I win big.

 

Rather than being upset people should be pleased that someone is beating the bookies and get involved and not cry about it.

 

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em

 

Agreed and when we do win you have paid your happiness tax

[kelkel31]

Big difference today was we didn't concede 2 more goals today because our heads went down. We took our eyes off the ball a bit yes and wolves made us pay but that's what happens when we have fundamentally good players when they play close to their potential but have a very big mistake in them when they aren't. Today wasn't a Leicester, today was one of those days that can happen to anybody. That's not to say we won't slip back into old habits, it's clear we have a bit of a glass jar but certainly nothing to be slitting our wrists over from the game today.

[kelkel31]

Big difference today was we didn't concede 2 more goals today because our heads went down. We took our eyes off the ball a bit yes and wolves made us pay but that's what happens when we have fundamentally good players when they play close to their potential but have a very big mistake in them when they aren't. Today wasn't a Leicester, today was one of those days that can happen to anybody. That's not to say we won't slip back into old habits, it's clear we have a bit of a glass jar but certainly nothing to be slitting our wrists over from the game today.

 

Jaw lol

[Jonnyboy]

Probably thinking Cédric would stay with who he was marking

 

 

 

You've got a weird obsession with Cedric. Hes been excellent recently.

[MarkSFC]

I cant believe the way many fans are just so emotionally reactive to what is in fact just 45 minutes where we almost 3-0. The 45minjtes beforehand we won 2-0. Both halves could actually have been any score. Our team is flourishing and full of confidence. Tha k god they are professionals and understand these things unlike the majority of fans who I suspect have never played a sport to any level whatsoever!!

 

Right...bring on Palace....

[Ed Rooney]

Probably thinking Cédric would stay with who he was marking

 

 

 

You've got a weird obsession with Cedric. Hes been excellent recently.

 

weird obsession ??? Because I said he was at fault for the 3 goals today ! Which he was...

 

he was very good against Leicester but other than that !!!! Not so sure

[Whitey Grandad]

Probably thinking Cédric would stay with who he was marking

 

 

 

Who? All three of them?

[Whitey Grandad]

weird obsession ??? Because I said he was at fault for the 3 goals today ! Which he was...

 

he was very good against Leicester but other than that !!!! Not so sure

You’ve confused Cedric with Stephens.

[Ed Rooney]

You’ve confused Cedric with Stephens.

 

Really ? Can’t work out how to post photos on here luckily enough for Cédric. One minute marking, next minute running away.

[Ed Rooney]

Who? All three of them?

 

no just the ones he was initially marking, who he left to score or win the penalty

[kermitsaint]

Needed to get Romeu on to shore up the midfield and do a job on Traore.

 

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Romeu lacks the pace to deal with Traore. Wolves have a very powerful midfield and forwards. We have the lightweight midfield and forwards. Redmond offers very little, his shot was the only highlight.

Even at 2 nil I didn't think we would win. They look dangerous and we are simply too lightweight.

We had a good run but our problems are just the same. Snuff out Ings and we lose our ability to scare teams.

 

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[Kingsbridge Saint]

According to the beeb, since the start of last season we've dropped 42 points from leading positions in the Premier League, 13 more than any other side.

 

That's about mentality, and in the heat of battle you expect the captain to manage this. We have a very weak captain.

[Saint_clark]

I thought the commentators said they were checking for handball, there was no way Traore was offside, but the replays shown on TV didn't actually indicate this.

Because the replays looked at didn't actually show the possible handball. they only showed the footage from after it.

 

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[Saint_clark]

You do talk a load of tosh mate. Cedric was by far our best player today. One bad result and off you go...

Yeah he was, still at fault for the first though.

 

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[JRM]

Think I'll be more worried if we lose at Palace on Tuesday, it's likely we'll lose the following two games to Spurs and Liverpool, suddenly 4 straight defeats and negative atmosphere will kick in again.

[Wade Garrett]

Jack Stephens is an abysmal defender. His tackling, positioning and decision-making are terrible.

 

He would’ve been subbed today if he was playing Wessex League.

 

An absolute liability who needs to be replaced this window. He will continue to cost us points.

[austsaint]

Jack Stephens is an abysmal defender. His tackling, positioning and decision-making are terrible.

 

He would’ve been subbed today if he was playing Wessex League.

 

An absolute liability who needs to be replaced this window. He will continue to cost us points.

 

Thanks for the hyperbole. It wasn't his best game today, I'll grant you.

[woodsaint]

Jack Stephens is an abysmal defender. His tackling, positioning and decision-making are terrible.

 

He would’ve been subbed today if he was playing Wessex League.

 

An absolute liability who needs to be replaced this window. He will continue to cost us points.

 

Typical SW overreaction right there. Hes been excellent the last 6 weeks or so, but now hes not good enough for Wessex League standard, whatever that is. I agree we need a new CB, but based on recent form it would be Stephens who would be partnering him

[Wade Garrett]

Typical SW overreaction right there. Hes been excellent the last 6 weeks or so, but now hes not good enough for Wessex League standard, whatever that is. I agree we need a new CB, but based on recent form it would be Stephens who would be partnering him

 

Watch the goals again and watch Jack Stephens. Woeful. That’s not down to having a bad game. It’s being exploited.

[Shroppie]

weird obsession ??? Because I said he was at fault for the 3 goals today ! Which he was...

 

he was very good against Leicester but other than that !!!! Not so sure

Having seen the goals I would say Cedric was no more to blame than anyone else in defence for any of the goals.

 

For the first, it was Bednarek diving in on the challenge before the cross that was the main problem. Then yes, Stephens and Cedric between them didn't block the shot.

 

On the penalty, Cedric actually gets his body in front. If Stephens hadn't slid in, it's not such a clear foul.

 

And Cedric was the closest to getting in a block for the last goal. Accepted he wasn't tight on Jiminez, but his position wasn't bad.

 

Overall, I think Stephens struggled more. Once their formation changed, we should have beefed up our DM.

 

But at the end of the day, although I'm as annoyed and frustrated as anyone at losing a two goal lead, we played well for a good part of the game, could have been 3-0 up, then 3-2 when Redmond hit the bar and 3-3 with the Stephens header.

 

There was some complacency at 2-0 and that needs addressing. The same happened at Villa but we were 3-0 there and held on. Collectively we were not committed enough in defence in the second half but credit to Wolves. They are a strong, physical and very dangerous team who didn't fade and tire as maybe we hoped.

 

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[The Cat]

The dad of the kid who ran on the pitch sounds like a complete cock.

 

Goaded the kid to run on and ask Boufal for his shirt, then when the child was escorted back to his seat by the stewards he kicked off and tried to assault one of them.

[austsaint]

The dad of the kid who ran on the pitch sounds like a complete cock.

 

Goaded the kid to run on and ask Boufal for his shirt, then when the child was escorted back to his seat by the stewards he kicked off and tried to assault one of them.

 

Got to feel sorry for the young lad don't you. With a Dad like that his card has nearly been marked.

[macca155]

Some reactions are a bit OT here. The teams had a great run.

 

Wolves are a good side, did their HW and exploited our weaknesses and vulnerabilities in the 2nd half. RH needs to adjust and be prepared to change tactics.

 

A team taken apart so easily by Bournemouth, Everton and Leicester was never going to recover completely so quickly.

 

Saints struggle against physical sides. For me the lack of cover in defensive midfield (Wanyama type) is exposing a fragile defence.

 

This Jan should be about buying RB cover and either a strong powerful DM or converting Dansu or Stephen's to that role.

 

RH needs to curb his attacking instincts a little. A draw in the EPL is a good result.

 

When the game went south in the 2nd half he should have accepted the karma and tightened up the game.

 

Putting Djnepo and Boufel on was a bit silly. Wolves had the their tails up. Kill the game and see if we could sneak a goal at the end.

 

As always first don't lose.

 

Move on, draw against Palace and regroup.

 

 

 

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[Shroppie]

Some reactions are a bit OT here. The teams had a great run.

 

Wolves are a good side, did their HW and exploited our weaknesses and vulnerabilities in the 2nd half. RH needs to adjust and be prepared to change tactics.

 

A team taken apart so easily by Bournemouth, Everton and Leicester was never going to recover completely so quickly.

 

Saints struggle against physical sides. For me the lack of cover in defensive midfield (Wanyama type) is exposing a fragile defence.

 

This Jan should be about buying RB cover and either a strong powerful DM or converting Dansu or Stephen's to that role.

 

RH needs to curb his attacking instincts a little. A draw in the EPL is a good result.

 

When the game went south in the 2nd half he should have accepted the karma and tightened up the game.

 

Putting Djnepo and Boufel on was a bit silly. Wolves had the their tails up. Kill the game and see if we could sneak a goal at the end.

 

As always first don't lose.

 

Move on, draw against Palace and regroup.

 

 

 

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A reasoned opinion: thank you.

 

I'm generally in agreement. Certainly Wolves surprised us with their resilience in the second half. They are a very good, strong team.

 

Ralph's plan is to defend from the front with energy, replacing Ings and Long as they tire, but in hindsight we perhaps could have been more cautious. They found a way to break our high defence line and showed more energy than we expected in the second half.

 

But it should be a wake up call. Realise that any falling off from total commitment will be punished and there's never room for complacency. We've had a great run and I'm glad points are on the board as we've got two very losable games up next.

 

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[Roo1976]

In the first half we saw the New Saints ....but in the 2nd half we saw the Old Saints....sloppy defending just like the many cock ups that have before any just lack of composure in the final 5 mins when Boufal should have equalised....all good on the trainning field but composure when it matters on a game day.

 

Im sure were going to be fine but wow wake up call and there didnt seem to be anyone listening.

[waylander]

Traore is a beast!

[Chez]

Having seen the goals I would say Cedric was no more to blame than anyone else in defence for any of the goals.

 

For the first, it was Bednarek diving in on the challenge before the cross that was the main problem. Then yes, Stephens and Cedric between them didn't block the shot.

 

On the penalty, Cedric actually gets his body in front. If Stephens hadn't slid in, it's not such a clear foul.

 

And Cedric was the closest to getting in a block for the last goal. Accepted he wasn't tight on Jiminez, but his position wasn't bad.

 

Agreed. I looked at the goals closely on MOTD this morning. Bednerek is too slow to make the challenge. Just before the cross comes in Cedric has a look over his shoulder and sees an extra man. He has two to mark. I think he slightly misjudges the weight of the cross, thinking it is deeper, he drops off to try and mark the deeper of the two players, the ball falls shorter to Neto, and now its too late to move forward and get tight.

 

For the second, Jonny is in between CB and RB, but its Stephens man. Cedric takes up a decent position, tucked inside to help the CB. Stephens makes a desperate tackle, doesn't get near the ball at all. Cedric got his body inside the defender and but for Stephens lunge, wouldn't have given a pen away. Stephens going to ground was the issue.

 

For the third, Bednerek doesn't go with Traore, he and Stephens get back but don't do enough to stop Traore, who turns well and plays a composed pass, Cedric has raced back to the six yard box, but Jimenez held back his run and the Cedric cant get close enough to block the shot.

Edited 19 January, 2020 by Chez

[badgerx16]

Traore is a beast!

Looks more like a rugby league player.

[austsaint]

Looks more like a rugby league player.

 

Dead ringer (Traore) of Ma'a Nonu - former All Black.

[Nordic Saint]

Looks more like a rugby league player.

 

Wolves definitely had a masterplan when building their squad. They have gone for height, strength and speed. Ironically, Traore was the only player in their team who was not over 6 ft tall but being 4ft across at the shoulders makes up for it. The £50 million they paid for Traore and Jimenez was money well spent. It just goes to show what you can achieve in the transfer market when you have wealthy, ambitious, Chinese owners. Unfortunately, we don't.

[shurlock]

Rewatching their 3rd goal. Absolutely disgusting defending. It’s 2 v. 5 - the numbers favour us massively yet Jimenez still finds himself unmarked for the cross.

[sadoldgit]

Very disappointing result, but if we had lost 2-1 at Leicester and beaten Wolves 3-2 we would all be happy bunnies today. The bigger picture has looked more encouraging over the last few weeks and that is the main thing.

[VectisSaint]

Rewatching their 3rd goal. Absolutely disgusting defending. It’s 2 v. 5 - the numbers favour us massively yet Jimenez still finds himself unmarked for the cross.

It was very clearly 2v2, not 5v2, the other three were racing back because they had been supporting the attack (watch the highlights and listen to Adam/Dave who mention 2v2 a few times). The fault came from giving the ball away by Adams, deep in the Wolves half. So often our problem in the past, midfield/attack give the ball away cheaply and expose the defence.

[Shandy_Top_89]

Having had an evening to unwind, I think that was a bit of an isolated incident (hopefully).

 

Overall I think Hasenhuttl should have taken off Long for Romeu at 2-1 and packed the midfield. They caught us because we continued to press unnecessarily.

 

We will learn more from how we react against Palace.

 

Re: Cedric and Bertrand - Both offered a lot going forward, but were not tracking back and Wolves exploited the gaps in the flanks repeatedly.

[egg]

It was very clearly 2v2, not 5v2, the other three were racing back because they had been supporting the attack (watch the highlights and listen to Adam/Dave who mention 2v2 a few times). The fault came from giving the ball away by Adams, deep in the Wolves half. So often our problem in the past, midfield/attack give the ball away cheaply and expose the defence.

That's how I saw it. The defence were massively exposed too many times and that's been the story too often under Ralph. We needed an extra man in the middle to give more protection to the defence, but even that's no use of the ball is given away cheaply when we're attacking leaving us wide open to the counter attack. The second half was west ham esque.

[Forester]

Always interested to hear difference in view between those who just watch the highlights versus those at the game.

 

For my part we have been on a great run, Wolves are a good side, and we have played Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester and Wolves now for a second time and won three of the four games. So lets put things in perspective.

 

I thought we were fortunate to be 2-0 up at halftime having been unusually clinical with our finishing and helped by poor defending for our first goal. What I was struck by was the physicality of much of Wolves’ team. I think of them as being technical team mainly Latin players but in fact they are huge units too. I agree that Romeu when we were 2-1 up for Armstrong would have been a good move. Boufal and Moussa combined were not the answers yesterday.

 

For me across 90 mins our two best players were Cedric and Redmond, both of whom have had lots of criticism on here. Conversely, off the back of a string of excellent performances, Bertrand, JWP and Ings were off the pace yesterday.

[shurlock]

It was very clearly 2v2, not 5v2, the other three were racing back because they had been supporting the attack (watch the highlights and listen to Adam/Dave who mention 2v2 a few times). The fault came from giving the ball away by Adams, deep in the Wolves half. So often our problem in the past, midfield/attack give the ball away cheaply and expose the defence.

 

I've watched the highlights. You should rewatch them too pal. Two points. Firstly there are three defenders around or near Traore: Stephens, Cedric and Bednarek. Second you might say the other two -Hoj and Bertrand- are too far off the play and are not involved. But just look at the starting position of Jimenez, the goalscorer, when Wolves break starts. He's even further back than both them. Yes or no? If he can show commitment and awareness to get forward into a goal scoring position, there's absolutely no reason why Hoj and Bertrand with their head start couldn't have done the same and influenced play. Instead they're ambling back (much like the goal up at Spurs) with Hoj particularly slow to react.

Edited 19 January, 2020 by shurlock

[Turkish]

I've watched the highlights. You should rewatch them too pal. Two points. Firstly there are three defenders around or near Traore: Stephens, Cedric and Bednarek. Second you might say the other two -Hoj and Bertrand- are too far off the play and are not involved. But just look at the starting position of Jimenez, the goalscorer, when Wolves break starts. He's even further back than both them. Yes or no? If he can show commitment to get forward into a goal scoring position, there's absolutely no reason why Hoj and Bertrand with their head start couldn't have done the same and influenced play. Instead they're ambling back (much like the goal up at Spurs) with Hoj particularly slow to react.

 

It was obviously 5 v 2, it was pathetic defending, couldn’t deal with Traore, but then we do struggle against power, then 3 players ball watching leaving Jiminez totally unmarked 10 yards out, not really sure how anyone can excuse it.

[benjii]

Big difference today was we didn't concede 2 more goals today because our heads went down. We took our eyes off the ball a bit yes and wolves made us pay but that's what happens when we have fundamentally good players when they play close to their potential but have a very big mistake in them when they aren't. Today wasn't a Leicester, today was one of those days that can happen to anybody. That's not to say we won't slip back into old habits, it's clear we have a bit of a glass jar but certainly nothing to be slitting our wrists over from the game today.

 

Good summary.

[niceandfriendly]

It was very clearly 2v2, not 5v2, the other three were racing back because they had been supporting the attack (watch the highlights and listen to Adam/Dave who mention 2v2 a few times). The fault came from giving the ball away by Adams, deep in the Wolves half. So often our problem in the past, midfield/attack give the ball away cheaply and expose the defence.

 

It was 3v2. Bednarek, Stephens, Cedric

 

Hoj and Bertrand were runing back. Hoj managed to get back just in time and if he was smart enough could have got there to cut off the pass. Didn't.

 

And Cedric just decided to leave Rual completely alone. Dreadful, which is a shame as he's been good lately.

[Shroppie]

It was 3v2. Bednarek, Stephens, Cedric

 

Hoj and Bertrand were runing back. Hoj managed to get back just in time and if he was smart enough could have got there to cut off the pass. Didn't.

 

And Cedric just decided to leave Rual completely alone. Dreadful, which is a shame as he's been good lately.

 

He didn't decide to leave Rual alone. You make it sound as if he decided it would be a good idea to avoid defending. He defended an area where the cross could have come in, bit it was hit very accurately to feet and Cedric couldn't quite get the block in.

 

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[davefizzy14]

He didn't decide to leave Rual alone. You make it sound as if he decided it would be a good idea to avoid defending. He defended an area where the cross could have come in, bit it was hit very accurately to feet and Cedric couldn't quite get the block in.

 

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Yeah agree with you here too. What about the amazing last ditch tackle Cedric put in on Traore to stop him from getting through in the closing stages!

[hypochondriac]

Personally I think if we had not gone 2 up and then lost, most would have not got too upset with a narrow loss to wolves who are a good team. It's the capitulation and the goals conceeded in quick succession that are disappointing. Still we shouldn't be too upset with the players considering the great form and effort they have put in. We were due an off game.

[Saint_clark]

The dad of the kid who ran on the pitch sounds like a complete cock.

 

Goaded the kid to run on and ask Boufal for his shirt, then when the child was escorted back to his seat by the stewards he kicked off and tried to assault one of them.

Such a bizarre incident. Who in their right mind would think it's an acceptable thing to do?

 

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[saintwbu]

Rewatching their 3rd goal. Absolutely disgusting defending. ItÂ’s 2 v. 5 - the numbers favour us massively yet Jimenez still finds himself unmarked for the cross.

 

Can't believe I haven't seen a single person hammer Hojbjerg for this - yet again, he's being ****ing lazy as Jimenez runs straight past him to find himself free to slot home. He's trotting back with his arm in the air appealing for something. I think the defence recovered pretty well to be honest, Traore was away but we got bodies back putting him in a position where he was no danger, 3 defenders in his way and one behind him. Then Jimenez just jogs into the box unattended giving him the only option he had, and he cooly slots it away to win the game. Hoj gets so many free passes it's unbelievable, he is not a captain, give it to JWP.

[Whitey Grandad]

Can't believe I haven't seen a single person hammer Hojbjerg for this - yet again, he's being ****ing lazy as Jimenez runs straight past him to find himself free to slot home. He's trotting back with his arm in the air appealing for something. I think the defence recovered pretty well to be honest, Traore was away but we got bodies back putting him in a position where he was no danger, 3 defenders in his way and one behind him. Then Jimenez just jogs into the box unattended giving him the only option he had, and he cooly slots it away to win the game. Hoj gets so many free passes it's unbelievable, he is not a captain, give it to JWP.

He’s a drag on our midfield. Doesn’t get forward, doesn’t get back, too slow to snuff out danger, first thought is to play it backwards. We need better.

 

It’s strange but I’m more disappointed by yesterday’s game than I was by the 9-0 to

Leicester. That one just became a laugh, a freak of a game.

[washsaint]

He’s a drag on our midfield. Doesn’t get forward, doesn’t get back, too slow to snuff out danger, first thought is to play it backwards. We need better.

 

It’s strange but I’m more disappointed by yesterday’s game than I was by the 9-0 to

Leicester. That one just became a laugh, a freak of a game.

 

Hojberg is very, very poor. So sloppy in possession (often giving the ball away under no pressure) and slow of thought and movement. A good replacement for him in the summer is badly needed....if we can get a good player in that position then we are in good shape with JWP there (who has been a revelation this season). Cannot believe any top clubs would be looking at Hojberg as he is simply not good enough.