Weston Super Saint Posted 18 January, 2020 Share Posted 18 January, 2020 My mistake. I should have added “of any sinificance.” Once something is in the national media it is significant, wouldn’t you agree? Not really. If she didn't have the link to UKIP - who at the time were pretty much a finished entity anyway - due to the fact that she has a pair of tits and isn't afraid to get them out, then the headline (probably in some backstreet tatty rag), would have been along the lines of "big tit bird shares racist comments with her mate via text". Not exactly the most significant breaking news the world has seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 Not really. If she didn't have the link to UKIP - who at the time were pretty much a finished entity anyway - due to the fact that she has a pair of tits and isn't afraid to get them out, then the headline (probably in some backstreet tatty rag), would have been along the lines of "big tit bird shares racist comments with her mate via text". Not exactly the most significant breaking news the world has seen. We will have to agree to disagree Weston. She was the partner of the UKIP leader and a UKIP member who had to resign for her very unpleasant comments. Let’s not pretend that other UKIP members she spoke to didn’t agree with her or share her point of view. The story was all over the papers because newspapers editors deemed it to be significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 I've really lost what the point of this conversation is. I thought we were discussing if there has been a racial element to coverage of meghan. Private racist comments by the partner of someone in ukip subsequently reported by the press isn't an example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 Having de-royaled themselves, does the amount the taxpayer pays, in total, to the Royal family go down, or will the same amount simply be redistributed to the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 There’s a reason why the royals are demonised. But you won’t read all about it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/there-is-a-reason-why-royals-demonised-but-wont-read-all-about-it-prince-harry-meghan-markle? An interesting read. I always thought that Piers Morgan was a see you next Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 There’s a reason why the royals are demonised. But you won’t read all about it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/there-is-a-reason-why-royals-demonised-but-wont-read-all-about-it-prince-harry-meghan-markle? An interesting read. I always thought that Piers Morgan was a see you next Tuesday. Yes, I have just read that. A very balanced read that puts things into context. Agree about Morgan. If he was involved in the phone hacking scandal I hope that he gets his comeuppance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 I've really lost what the point of this conversation is. I thought we were discussing if there has been a racial element to coverage of meghan. Private racist comments by the partner of someone in ukip subsequently reported by the press isn't an example of that. The point is that it wasn’t private. It was all over the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 I fail to see what her skin colour has to do with anything. I personally didn't even know she was mixed race until the press made a big deal out of it, I expect many others were in the same boat. Making a big deal about her being mixed race. Isn’t that racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 The point is that it wasn’t private. It was all over the news.It was private until the press shared it. I can totally see why it would be of interest but it doesn't prove any racial element to the reporting of meghan, it's not like the papers were supporting her comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 Whether they were or were not, they were happy to spread them all over the news stands. And let’s not pretend that only one person in a deeply racist political party had that point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 (edited) Making a big deal about her being mixed race. Isn’t that racist?They made a big deal out of it in a positive way- talking about modernisation of the monarchy and the racial elements she incorporated into the wedding. I saw very little negative press up until the point they started getting political and preachy, hostile to the media and leaving themselves open to accusations of hypocrisy, none of which has anything to do with her race. Yes some headlines have been sensationalist and silly but nothing worse than any other royals have suffered over the years. Edited 19 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 January, 2020 Share Posted 19 January, 2020 Whether they were or were not, they were happy to spread them all over the news stands. And let’s not pretend that only one person in a deeply racist political party had that point of view.Absolutely no one has pretended that only one person holds a racist point of view, no one has said that. The point is that meghan was not really treated in any worse a fashion than other royals. The press can be dicks but its bizarre to suggest its anything to do with being mixed race. She would have received the same sh*tty treatment had she been exactly the same but happened to have a white mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 Absolutely no one has pretended that only one person holds a racist point of view, no one has said that. The point is that meghan was not really treated in any worse a fashion than other royals. The press can be dicks but its bizarre to suggest its anything to do with being mixed race. She would have received the same sh*tty treatment had she been exactly the same but happened to have a white mother. You might be right but you have absolutely no idea what motivates people to write hateful articles about a person and there have been some pretty awful things written about her. Just because an article doesn’t specify race, it doesn’t mean to say that that is not the motivation behind it. You didn’t believe that racism still existed in football despite black players coming out and saying that it is. I read an article the other day saying that Harry shouldn’t be with Markle but should be with a “naughty blonde.” If that isn’t a racial distinction I don’t know what is. How do you know that the editor of the Mail doesn’t share Marney’s view about the Royal family being “tainted” but didn’t have the nerve to print it. Along comes someone who conveniently sends something on social media. Bingo. He can print it without taking any responsibility for the view himself. Job done. Pure conjecture of course, but no more than your assertion that hateful articles are not driven by racist undertones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 You might be right but you have absolutely no idea what motivates people to write hateful articles about a person and there have been some pretty awful things written about her. Just because an article doesn’t specify race, it doesn’t mean to say that that is not the motivation behind it. You didn’t believe that racism still existed in football despite black players coming out and saying that it is. I read an article the other day saying that Harry shouldn’t be with Markle but should be with a “naughty blonde.” If that isn’t a racial distinction I don’t know what is. How do you know that the editor of the Mail doesn’t share Marney’s view about the Royal family being “tainted” but didn’t have the nerve to print it. Along comes someone who conveniently sends something on social media. Bingo. He can print it without taking any responsibility for the view himself. Job done. Pure conjecture of course, but no more than your assertion that hateful articles are not driven by racist undertones. Unless you can read thoughts or have spoken to the people who have written the articles who told you their racist views, I fail to see how anyone could say that the motivation for the articles were racism. What we can say is she has been treated no worse in the press than some other royals have and that clearly had nothing to do with skin colour. There's simply no evidence that they were faced with racism initially, the day of their wedding it was wall to wall positive coverage and then things got more critical when they started getting political and lecturing. It was their actions that shifted the coverage, not her race. The onus is on the individuals making the claims of racism to prove racist intent and they clearly haven't done that. I could make wild claims like the reason you make up quotes about what I've said regarding racism in football is because you're racist against me. Of course I have no idea about your intent, but if I'm making that claim it would be for me to prove that rather than just asserting it as fact. Let's go round this circle again. Please find where I said racism "never existed in football." When you can't find anywhere I have said that then please apologise for making it up - you won't though because you're happy to spread lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 I didn’t make it up. You said that it wasn’t such a big deal these days ( or words to that effect) and played it down. It something you do quiet often. You did the same over the issue over women’s pay. You seem to have a knee jerk reaction to anything remotely “woke” (WTF that means). Anyway, back to the thread. Harry and Meghan have been talking about receiving racial abuse since 2016. As they have been on the receiving end of it I expect they know more about than you or I. I have read some very unpleasant articles from a very well known racist recently which have attacked Meghan. Neither of us knows what motivated those articles but if they come from a nailed on racist you would be hard pressed to say that racism played no part. We are in danger of straying into Laurence Fox territory. He dismissed the claims that the hatred towards had nothing to do with racism because we are a nice friendly, tolerant country. No we are not. Another three people have been stabbed to death today. As I am writing this people will be told to go back to their own countries. Like any society we have murders, rapists, thieves, racists etc in our communities. He was called out for being a privileged white boy who didn’t have a clue about people on the end of racist abuse and rightly so. Diane Abbot gets infinitely more hate mail than any other MP. If she was white do you think that would be the case? It is very easy for a bunch of white blokes sitting around our keyboards to dismiss this stuff as no big deal. I did the same when I first read about these issues. Since reading more of the social media comments and even some of the more main stream stuff, I can see why they are complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 (edited) I didn’t make it up. You said that it wasn’t such a big deal these days ( or words to that effect) and played it down. It something you do quiet often. You did the same over the issue over women’s pay. You seem to have a knee jerk reaction to anything remotely “woke” (WTF that means). Anyway, back to the thread. Harry and Meghan have been talking about receiving racial abuse since 2016. As they have been on the receiving end of it I expect they know more about than you or I. I have read some very unpleasant articles from a very well known racist recently which have attacked Meghan. Neither of us knows what motivated those articles but if they come from a nailed on racist you would be hard pressed to say that racism played no part. We are in danger of straying into Laurence Fox territory. He dismissed the claims that the hatred towards had nothing to do with racism because we are a nice friendly, tolerant country. No we are not. Another three people have been stabbed to death today. As I am writing this people will be told to go back to their own countries. Like any society we have murders, rapists, thieves, racists etc in our communities. He was called out for being a privileged white boy who didn’t have a clue about people on the end of racist abuse and rightly so. Diane Abbot gets infinitely more hate mail than any other MP. If she was white do you think that would be the case? It is very easy for a bunch of white blokes sitting around our keyboards to dismiss this stuff as no big deal. I did the same when I first read about these issues. Since reading more of the social media comments and even some of the more main stream stuff, I can see why they are complaining. If you "didn't make it up" then you will be able to find a post of mine that stated there was "no racism in football." That's what you are claiming. You won't be able to find that because I didn't say that. I've explained in detail why I vehemently dispute your charges of "playing it down" so no need to go through all that again. You made a claim that I said there was no racism in football. I didn't say that. If you were remotely honest about that you would apologise. I'm not just going to accept a claim of racial abuse based on no evidence. I can be sympathetic if someone claims they have been racially abused but I certainly won't just believe an assertion if no evidence is provided. Harry and Meghan may honestly believe that there has been a racial dimension to the coverage but I have seen no such thing myself. We are generally a friendly and tolerant country. If you look at various metrics we are one of the most tolerant and open societies on the planet, hence why so many want to come and live here. Human nature being what it is we are always going to have some elements of racism, homophobia, sexism etc but on the whole the British public are tolerant, friendly and accepting. Violence, stabbings and murders happen in every society on the planet and statistically its at a much lower rate here than the majority of nations around the world. Laurence Fox was told he was not allowed an opinion on racism because of the colour of his skin- an incredibly racist thing to say. Lots of people agree with his stance, including many black people like the Internet personality zuby for example. Does he have more a clue about racism because of his skin colour? Is he allowed to hold the opinions he does? I'm worried that you're so easily influenced by social media posts, I realised long ago that twitter isn't real life (you should have learnt that after the Labour election loss.) Most people in the real world have no time for identity politics garbage and soon it will be assigned to the bin of history where it belongs. Outside of twitter and Facebook your regressive left opinions simply aren't popular. Edited 20 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 I didn’t make it up. You said that it wasn’t such a big deal these days ( or words to that effect) and played it down. It something you do quiet often. You did the same over the issue over women’s pay. You seem to have a knee jerk reaction to anything remotely “woke” (WTF that means). Anyway, back to the thread. Harry and Meghan have been talking about receiving racial abuse since 2016. As they have been on the receiving end of it I expect they know more about than you or I. I have read some very unpleasant articles from a very well known racist recently which have attacked Meghan. Neither of us knows what motivated those articles but if they come from a nailed on racist you would be hard pressed to say that racism played no part. We are in danger of straying into Laurence Fox territory. He dismissed the claims that the hatred towards had nothing to do with racism because we are a nice friendly, tolerant country. No we are not. Another three people have been stabbed to death today. As I am writing this people will be told to go back to their own countries. Like any society we have murders, rapists, thieves, racists etc in our communities. He was called out for being a privileged white boy who didn’t have a clue about people on the end of racist abuse and rightly so. Diane Abbot gets infinitely more hate mail than any other MP. If she was white do you think that would be the case? It is very easy for a bunch of white blokes sitting around our keyboards to dismiss this stuff as no big deal. I did the same when I first read about these issues. Since reading more of the social media comments and even some of the more main stream stuff, I can see why they are complaining. You need to be careful here, SOG. You wrote 'If she was white do you think that would be the case?' which is about as racist comment as you could make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 (edited) There's a fair number of black MPs now. I wonder what it is that means Diane Abbott receives more than them? (if that is indeed the case.) Could it be her sanctimonious and obnoxious attitude? Could it be her race baiting and racist comments about"white people?" Makes you think. I reckon if Diane were white and went on about her race as much as black Diane does, displays similar attitudes and was as obnoxious then she would get quite a lot of hate thrown her way. Edited 20 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 20 January, 2020 Share Posted 20 January, 2020 Are we glossing over the Daily Mail's straight outta Compton jibe? She's from Crenshaw, nowhere near Compton, so it was only used so they could make their point about her background. Straight outta Compton is a reference to the NWA album, for those who don't know the work of the local GP Dr Dre, NWA stands for Ni@@as with attitude. She was described thus the Daily Mail, which might be the type of thing that would annoy a husband. And if anyone wants to defend their use of that bizarre link, don't. Just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Are we glossing over the Daily Mail's straight outta Compton jibe? She's from Crenshaw, nowhere near Compton, so it was only used so they could make their point about her background. Straight outta Compton is a reference to the NWA album, for those who don't know the work of the local GP Dr Dre, NWA stands for Ni@@as with attitude. She was described thus the Daily Mail, which might be the type of thing that would annoy a husband. And if anyone wants to defend their use of that bizarre link, don't. Just don't. Like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 If you "didn't make it up" then you will be able to find a post of mine that stated there was "no racism in football." That's what you are claiming. You won't be able to find that because I didn't say that. I've explained in detail why I vehemently dispute your charges of "playing it down" so no need to go through all that again. You made a claim that I said there was no racism in football. I didn't say that. If you were remotely honest about that you would apologise. I'm not just going to accept a claim of racial abuse based on no evidence. I can be sympathetic if someone claims they have been racially abused but I certainly won't just believe an assertion if no evidence is provided. Harry and Meghan may honestly believe that there has been a racial dimension to the coverage but I have seen no such thing myself. We are generally a friendly and tolerant country. If you look at various metrics we are one of the most tolerant and open societies on the planet, hence why so many want to come and live here. Human nature being what it is we are always going to have some elements of racism, homophobia, sexism etc but on the whole the British public are tolerant, friendly and accepting. Violence, stabbings and murders happen in every society on the planet and statistically its at a much lower rate here than the majority of nations around the world. Laurence Fox was told he was not allowed an opinion on racism because of the colour of his skin- an incredibly racist thing to say. Lots of people agree with his stance, including many black people like the Internet personality zuby for example. Does he have more a clue about racism because of his skin colour? Is he allowed to hold the opinions he does? I'm worried that you're so easily influenced by social media posts, I realised long ago that twitter isn't real life (you should have learnt that after the Labour election loss.) Most people in the real world have no time for identity politics garbage and soon it will be assigned to the bin of history where it belongs. Outside of twitter and Facebook your regressive left opinions simply aren't popular. You did play down the racism in football thing. I remember it well because we had an exchange about it. I really don’t have the time or the inclination to trawl back through our many tedious rows to find it but trust me, it is there. You didn’t say that there was no racism in football but you did say it wasn’t as bad as it has been. I think we have heard differently from black players. We may generally be a friendly and tolerant country, but Fox completely whitewashed the point (no pun intended). There is plenty of racism and violence in this country but perhaps he doesn’t get out much. When black people say they are being abused and white people tell them they are not, that doesn’t sound good does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 There's a fair number of black MPs now. I wonder what it is that means Diane Abbott receives more than them? (if that is indeed the case.) Could it be her sanctimonious and obnoxious attitude? Could it be her race baiting and racist comments about"white people?" Makes you think. I reckon if Diane were white and went on about her race as much as black Diane does, displays similar attitudes and was as obnoxious then she would get quite a lot of hate thrown her way. The point being that black MPs get racially abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 NWA stands for Ni@@as with attitude. .Its a weird society where some people are able to use the word but others are not. Not that I wish to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 You did play down the racism in football thing. I remember it well because we had an exchange about it. I really don’t have the time or the inclination to trawl back through our many tedious rows to find it but trust me, it is there. You didn’t say that there was no racism in football but you did say it wasn’t as bad as it has been. I think we have heard differently from black players. We may generally be a friendly and tolerant country, but Fox completely whitewashed the point (no pun intended). There is plenty of racism and violence in this country but perhaps he doesn’t get out much. When black people say they are being abused and white people tell them they are not, that doesn’t sound good does it? We have different interpretations of playing it down but we have been through this argument before, we simply have different views on the subject. The important thing here is that finally you have accepted that you were wrong to accuse me of saying there was no racism in football. I didn't say it and to accuse me of it is dishonest. I'd appreciate an apology for that but I expect that's too much to hope for. Here's an interesting graph I stumbled on today. Rather counters the narrative of Britain being such an intolerant hellhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 The point being that black MPs get racially abused.Yes but why do you think Diane of all people gets abuse at a higher rate than other black MPs? What is different about Diane that increases the abuse she receives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 We are talking about racial abuse. Do you think that it is ok that MPs receive racial abuse? Do you think that it is ok for footballers to receive racial abuse? Do you think it is ok for Meghan Markle to receive racial abuse? Do you think it is ok for anybody to receive racial abuse? If the answer is no, just stop defending people who do the abusing or playing down the level of abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 We have different interpretations of playing it down but we have been through this argument before, we simply have different views on the subject. The important thing here is that finally you have accepted that you were wrong to accuse me of saying there was no racism in football. I didn't say it and to accuse me of it is dishonest. I'd appreciate an apology for that but I expect that's too much to hope for. Here's an interesting graph I stumbled on today. Rather counters the narrative of Britain being such an intolerant hellhole. I apologise for making a misleading statement. It isn’t easy doing this on a phone and I do misread or misinterpret things on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 We are talking about racial abuse. Do you think that it is ok that MPs receive racial abuse? Do you think that it is ok for footballers to receive racial abuse? Do you think it is ok for Meghan Markle to receive racial abuse? Do you think it is ok for anybody to receive racial abuse? If the answer is no, just stop defending people who do the abusing or playing down the level of abuse. I think MPs of all stripes receive some terrible abuse online. Boris Johnson for example I've seen some disgusting things aimed his way. I don't think it's OK for anyone to receive racist abuse, I'm not sure why you think I would. I've consistently stated that racist abuse should be condemned, particularly against black footballers considering the history. You accused me of denying that racist abuse happened in football. This is important because in your mind, disagreeing with you about the scale of the problem in British football is tantamount to denying that racism exists. I never said that, I don't believe that and it was wrong of you to either deliberately or mistakenly misrepresent what I said. If it was an honest mistake then I'd presume you'd apologise given you have now admitted your error. I've never defended people who have racially abused someone. I disagree- and many others agreed with me at the time- about the scale of racist abuse in the English game that you believe is vast and which I believe is largely consistent with the rest of society and mostly confined to pockets of supporters who should be strictly dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 (edited) I apologise for making a misleading statement. It isn’t easy doing this on a phone and I do misread or misinterpret things on occasion. Well that's progress at least thank you (although it was actually a false statement rather than a misleading one). Maybe try to read replies you get more charitably in future, simply disagreeing with someone about the scale of a problem does not mean the problem is non existent. Edited 21 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 We may generally be a friendly and tolerant country, but Fox completely whitewashed the point (no pun intended). There is plenty of racism and violence in this country but perhaps he doesn’t get out much. When black people say they are being abused and white people tell them they are not, that doesn’t sound good does it? God, you’ve got another obsession to rank alongside Katie Hopkins & Tommy Robinson (not his real name). Fox was spot on, it’s got **** all to do with racism and everything to do with her being a hypercritical woke half wit. There was racist language used in the programme, by the dopey leftie bird in the audience. She was judging Fox by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character, and was therefore racist. Of course, you won’t call that out, because you don’t really care whether people are judged by their colour if they are white. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Well that's progress at least thank you (although it was actually a false statement rather than a misleading one). Maybe try to read replies you get more charitably in future, simply disagreeing with someone about the scale of a problem does not mean the problem is non existent. You really aren’t the easiest person to apologise to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 (edited) God, you’ve got another obsession to rank alongside Katie Hopkins & Tommy Robinson (not his real name). Fox was spot on, it’s got **** all to do with racism and everything to do with her being a hypercritical woke half wit. There was racist language used in the programme, by the dopey leftie bird in the audience. She was judging Fox by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character, and was therefore racist. Of course, you won’t call that out, because you don’t really care whether people are judged by their colour if they are white. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He's doing to Fox what he just apologised to me for. Fox never said that racism didn't exist in society in exactly the same way that I never said that racism did not exist in football. In both cases you are attributing things to people that were not said. Fox said that we are not a racist country which in my opinion is entirely correct. There are racists in every society that has ever existed, but there is certainly vastly less racism and sexism in society now than at any other point in history and the UK is vastly better on this issue that most other countries (there are some good stats on it but I can't be bothered to find them.) soggy considers saying things like this to be playing down the evil racism problem in society whereas the majority of people see it as taking a realistic look and realising that we have been travelling in a direction that has led to a freer and more Liberal outlook for everyone, certainly in comparison to a generation or two ago. The UK is a fantastic country whose inhabitants are mostly friendly and welcoming. This is a view shared by immigrants (as I posted above) as well as the public in general. It seems the ones who want to moan and who think the UK is awful are the ones with the problem, not the general public who quite rightly ignore this people in general. Edited 21 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 You really aren’t the easiest person to apologise to.Yet you recognised the need to do the right thing, admitted your error and did it all the same. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 God, you’ve got another obsession to rank alongside Katie Hopkins & Tommy Robinson (not his real name). Fox was spot on, it’s got **** all to do with racism and everything to do with her being a hypercritical woke half wit. There was racist language used in the programme, by the dopey leftie bird in the audience. She was judging Fox by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character, and was therefore racist. Of course, you won’t call that out, because you don’t really care whether people are judged by their colour if they are white. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You can’t mention those names, hypo is counting! Fox says that the criticism of her isn’t racist where some of it clearly is. His comment set him up for the reply which was fair enough. What DOES a privileged white man know about racial prejudice and what gives him the right to tell someone they haven’t been racially abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Yet you recognised the need to do the right thing, admitted your error and did it all the same. Good for you. That almost sounds patronising, but if it means that we can go forward as reasonable adults, l’ll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 You can’t mention those names, hypo is counting! Fox says that the criticism of her isn’t racist where some of it clearly is. His comment set him up for the reply which was fair enough. What DOES a privileged white man know about racial prejudice and what gives him the right to tell someone they haven’t been racially abused. That's the crux of the matter. You believe that it's "clearly" racist. Those involved vehemently deny that and many do not believe it to be racist. Absolutely ridiculous to suggest you would never be subject to racial prejudice because you are white or that you would be unable to recognise racial prejudice due to your skin colour. In that same question time, a black woman was moaning about the overuse of the race card and largely agreeing with Fox. What gives you the right as a white male of privilege to dismiss her point of view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 You can’t mention those names, hypo is counting! Fox says that the criticism of her isn’t racist where some of it clearly is. His comment set him up for the reply which was fair enough. What DOES a privileged white man know about racial prejudice and what gives him the right to tell someone they haven’t been racially abused. Oh and "what gives him the right to tell someone they haven't been racially abused?" Two words: Jussie Smollett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Oh and "what gives him the right to tell someone they haven't been racially abused?" Two words: Jussie Smollett. Do you think what he said was ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Do you think what he said was ok?Jussie smollett still claims he was racially abused. Who are you as a white man of privilege to tell him he wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 That's the crux of the matter. You believe that it's "clearly" racist. Those involved vehemently deny that and many do not believe it to be racist. Absolutely ridiculous to suggest you would never be subject to racial prejudice because you are white or that you would be unable to recognise racial prejudice due to your skin colour. In that same question time, a black woman was moaning about the overuse of the race card and largely agreeing with Fox. What gives you the right as a white male of privilege to dismiss her point of view? There is clear evidence of racial evidence against Meghan Markle both in the mainstream media and more so on social media both directly and indirectly. This has been going on for 4 years. Fox dismissed it as if it was a fantasy. I don’t see how anyone can defend him. Has he seen everything that has been said about her? I haven’t seen what has been said about Diane Abbot but have no reason to disbelieve her when she says she is being racially abuse. I have no reason to disbelieve any other black MP when they say they are being racially abused. Why should it be any different for Markle? Harry has obviously seen this stuff. Is he making it up too? If Fox had said that nothing he had read seemed to be driven by racism, fair enough. But he didn’t. He just said we are a friendly tolerant country completely omitting that racism exists here. You call out other actors for being woke. Why not call out an actor for being a **** and making a stupidly ill informed comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 (edited) There is clear evidence of racial evidence against Meghan Markle both in the mainstream media and more so on social media both directly and indirectly. This has been going on for 4 years. Fox dismissed it as if it was a fantasy. I don’t see how anyone can defend him. Has he seen everything that has been said about her? I haven’t seen what has been said about Diane Abbot but have no reason to disbelieve her when she says she is being racially abuse. I have no reason to disbelieve any other black MP when they say they are being racially abused. Why should it be any different for Markle? Harry has obviously seen this stuff. Is he making it up too? If Fox had said that nothing he had read seemed to be driven by racism, fair enough. But he didn’t. He just said we are a friendly tolerant country completely omitting that racism exists here. You call out other actors for being woke. Why not call out an actor for being a **** and making a stupidly ill informed comment? Well then that's ridiculous if you're talking about social media. I could find you hundreds of thousands of examples of abuse of figures on social media,regardless of colour, sex, ethnicity or language or even fame. That speaks more to what the likes of twitter is like and the penchant for trolls from all over the world to throw out abusive comments on it. Sadly in that respect meghan is no different from anyone else on twitter, albeit she is higher profile at the moment so is likely to get a higher volume. Fox denied that it was racism and I agree with him. There is clear evidence that meghan has been the victim of sensationalist reporting and unkobd words written about her in the media, particularly after they appeared to become lore political and lecturing whilst leaving themselves open to claims of hypocrisy. There are examples of similar behaviours employed by the press towards a whole host of royals over decades with some of them. What this speaks to is how sh*tty some of the press can be but its certainly not something that meghan has been unique in suffering. You could argue that there is "clear evidence" of racism against her in the media that has been going on for four years but be aware that many people completely disagree with your characterisation and are yet to see racist press treatment that is uniquely different from how other royals have been treated and unequivocally racist. As I said to you, the vast majority of press coverage was hugely positive initially, particularly during their wedding. The woman on question time stated for a fact that meghan received poor press due to racism. Fox challenged this assertion because he - and clearly many others including myself- have not seen evidence to support this and do not believe it to be the case. It's a difference of opinion, Fox is as entitled to his view as the woman was and given we have not thus far uncovered hoards of media coverage that is objectively racist in nature, it will remain as a difference of opinion. You said "who is he to question if a black person has been racially abused?". He's perfectly within his rights to ask for evidence of abuse rather than simply listening and believing and the colour of his skin is entirely irrelevant to that. You appeared to be suggesting that someone with white skin was unable to challenge a claim of racism or ask for any evidence and I completely disagree with that and I consider that to be a racist attitude. Fox NEVER said that racism did not exist here. He actually says it exists later on during the programme and says we need to call it out where it exists. He said we are a tolerant and lovely nation which we are. In your mind it seems he has to preface every statement he makes on race with an acknowledgement that racism does exist lest the hard of thinking make wild assumptions that he thinks it doesn't. I've already said to you, Harry and meghan may have interpreted less favourable coverage of themselves to be racist in nature but that doesn't mean that it has been or that it is substantially different from the shabby treatment that other royals have had. Fox wasn't a ****, he made reasonable comments on question time that I agree with. He should be applauded for publically voicing what I suspect a majority of the public believe. Edited 21 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 It’s understandable why some people think racism might be a reason for their treatment when you see the comparison with how Kate has been portrayed for doing the exact same things. Newspapers are never going to be overtly racist about a Royal even if they have racist motivations behind what they write. This buzzfeed article (I can’t guarantee how accurate a representation it is) reminded me of a similar feature about the treatment some black footballers got. White footballer - generous guy buys his lovely family a house v Black football - blows his massive pack packed on expensive stuff. All very subtle, nothing overtly racist written but seen in comparison you have to question the reasons for the difference. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal It’s impossible to say if race is a factor but with papers like the Mail or Telegraph which would have a sizeable amount a racist/xenophobic readers I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an element of pandering to their preconceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 (edited) That's seems like a fair comment. Like you say it's a difference of opinion and interpretation and there's nothing definitive. I'm not a fan of picking selective headlines stripped of context though. Kate got her own bad press near the start and certainly some of the lesser royals got some terrible treatment. Happy to accept though that some may look at it and think there's a racist motivation. If there is a difference I would say its more that she's different- from an alien culture in some respects, not posh enough, American accent, all into the identity politics thing etc. Not a typical royal. Impossible to say for sure though and certainly not clear and obvious like soggy has claimed. Edited 21 January, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 (edited) Diana got a lot better treatment in the press than Fergie. They were both putting it about, but Fergie got it worse. Maybe the press were gingerist. Martin Luther King Jnr longed for the day when people were judged by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin. Some of us are there, whereas some (mainly woke lefties) aren’t. The truth of the matter is she gets stick because she’s an awful women, Lenny Henry gets stick because he’s thinks he’s funny and is clearly not, Diane Abbott gets stick because she’s stupid and racist, and Garth Crooks gets stick because he’s hopeless at his job, I couldn’t give a shiny **** what colour their skin is and nor could 95% of normal people. The only people who are bothered about their skin colour are racists and woke lefties, and there’s a hell of a lot more woke lefties in this country.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited 21 January, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 21 January, 2020 Share Posted 21 January, 2020 Where are all of these woke lefties? Are they the same people who are pinko, sandal-wearing, liberal-elite, vegan, Corbynista, tree-hugging, Londoncentric, remoaner snowflakes, or is that another big group that I've missed? And if there are so many of them, why did they all vote Tory last month? Our country is a mixed up place these days....in the olden days you used to know who was what, and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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