Britain's Next Top Prime Minister - Labour Leadership Election 2020.

[sadoldgit]

Clive Lewis came across well on Question Time last night I thought. Can’t see him getting the job though. What threw me was Max Hastings. I always had him pegged as a cross between Duckie and Wes (without the 60’s terminology) but, in Duckie’s parlance, he is a proper pinko. Bigger up Tony Blair and said that he would have voted for him in the last election if he had stood. I know he has no time for Johnson, but that was quiet a shock coming from a former editor of the Telegraph.

[sadoldgit]

Is the problem with anti-Muslim prejudice from lone individuals in the Conservative party comparable with the systemic anti-semitism within the Labour Party? If it is at a similar level then why have the EHRC opened an investigation into Labout anti-semitism yet have not done so for the Conservatives?

 

Things don’t have to be at the same level not to be an issue. The leader of the Tory Party actually made Islamophobic comments. If Corbyn had made similar comments about Jewish attire what do you think the response would have been?

[hypochondriac]

Things don’t have to be at the same level not to be an issue. The leader of the Tory Party actually made Islamophobic comments. If Corbyn had made similar comments about Jewish attire what do you think the response would have been?

Oh right so the tory party Islamic prejudice issue is at a lower and less serious level than the anti-semitism in the Labour Party then yes? Maybe you have your answer then about why it wasn't treated as the same level of seriousness in the media...

 

Your contention was that the evil right wing media treated systemic antisemitism in the Labour Party with a greater degree of severity than they treated examples of anti-Muslim bigotry in the Conservative party because they are evil and right wing. My view is that they treated it more seriously because it is a more serious issue as you yourself have admitted and as they ehrc investigation proves.

Edited 10 January, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Wes Tender]

Clive Lewis came across well on Question Time last night I thought. Can’t see him getting the job though. What threw me was Max Hastings. I always had him pegged as a cross between Duckie and Wes (without the 60’s terminology) but, in Duckie’s parlance, he is a proper pinko. Bigger up Tony Blair and said that he would have voted for him in the last election if he had stood. I know he has no time for Johnson, but that was quiet a shock coming from a former editor of the Telegraph.

 

Please, please, please let it be Clive Lewis as leader of the Labour Party. I was surprised about Hastings too, but also conversely at how much I agreed with the opinions of Economist editor Anne McElvoy. Typically, Bruce allowed the other leftie with Lewis on the panel, Miatta Fahnbulleh, free license to rabbit on interminably without interruption, so that somebody who most have never heard of, got to have more air time than the others.

 

No discussion of Brexit for once, apart from a fleeting argument that ignoring their promise to honour the referendum vote and then doing their utmost to thwart it, was a prime factor in Labour's catastrophic defeat in the election. I think that you ought to take note, Soggy. The stonking majority the Tories have has taken Brexit off the agenda on Question Time in one of the most pro-remain towns on the country. All the stop Brexit rabble have disappeared from outside the House apart from the idiot Bray.

 

When are you going to stop bleating about how unfair it all is and move on?

[Wes Tender]

Things don’t have to be at the same level not to be an issue. The leader of the Tory Party actually made Islamophobic comments. If Corbyn had made similar comments about Jewish attire what do you think the response would have been?

 

What aspects of Jewish attire do you think that Corbyn could address, Soggy?

[shurlock]

What aspects of Jewish attire do you think that Corbyn could address, Soggy?

 

Sheitels. They make orthodox women look like early 1970s sex dolls. Easy and irresponsible game to play isn't it pal.

Edited 10 January, 2020 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Sheitels. They make orthodox women look like early 1970s sex dolls. Easy and irresponsible game to play isn't it pal.

 

No, sorry, Gavyn; I can't imagine Corbyn making any similar remarks about a Jewish wig that could be comparable to describing a burqa as looking like a letterbox.

 

I hadn't heard of those, and it doesn't sound very obvious that it would be particularly noticeable even had I encountered any Jewish women wearing one. On the other hand, I sure as hell recognise a burqa, although it isn't necessarily certain that it is even a woman wearing it, so there are security implications.

 

1970's sex dolls, you say? Not my scene. I prefer the 1960s sex doll look, the close fitted skinny rib jumpers teamed up with the tartan mini-kilt and thigh length leather boots.

 

What woman's clothing look turns you on, Gavyn? Dungarees?

[sadoldgit]

What aspects of Jewish attire do you think that Corbyn could address, Soggy?

 

I really don’t know Wes, I am not well versed in making fun of religious dress. Perhaps Johnson could help? He seems to have an eye for denigrating people by the clothes they wear Bum boys in tank tops for example.

[sadoldgit]

Please, please, please let it be Clive Lewis as leader of the Labour Party. I was surprised about Hastings too, but also conversely at how much I agreed with the opinions of Economist editor Anne McElvoy. Typically, Bruce allowed the other leftie with Lewis on the panel, Miatta Fahnbulleh, free license to rabbit on interminably without interruption, so that somebody who most have never heard of, got to have more air time than the others.

 

No discussion of Brexit for once, apart from a fleeting argument that ignoring their promise to honour the referendum vote and then doing their utmost to thwart it, was a prime factor in Labour's catastrophic defeat in the election. I think that you ought to take note, Soggy. The stonking majority the Tories have has taken Brexit off the agenda on Question Time in one of the most pro-remain towns on the country. All the stop Brexit rabble have disappeared from outside the House apart from the idiot Bray.

 

When are you going to stop bleating about how unfair it all is and move on?

 

You seem to do the bleating for me. Remind me a again how many people voted for Tory policies and how many people didn’t? You have a “stonking” majority because of the first past the post system not by popular support. But there I go again, falling into your trap again. I was talking about Hastings and his politics. I am not sure how you managed to turn that into bleating about how flawed our voting system is.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Lol

 

42% giving Jezza 0/10

 

Wrong-Daily & Soggy with other assorted loons 4%

 

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

And yet you are in the minority in terms of votes and have Boris Johnson as your party leader. Something to be really proud

of.

[hypochondriac]

And yet you are in the minority in terms of votes and have Boris Johnson as your party leader. Something to be really proud

of.

Sums you up. You'd rather feel morally superior-even if it's unjustified- and lose the election.

[Wes Tender]

I really don’t know Wes, I am not well versed in making fun of religious dress. Perhaps Johnson could help? He seems to have an eye for denigrating people by the clothes they wear Bum boys in tank tops for example.

 

You ask us to imagine the flak that Corbyn would get from the media were he to denigrate an item of clothing worn by Jewish women and then when asked what type of clothing that would be, you have no idea. So what was the point of your argument then?

All that you have shown is that there is no particular item of Jewish women's clothing that is worthy of equivalent derision.

[sadoldgit]

I actually thought that Miatta talked a lot of sense. Move away from political dogma and “isms” and just set out a plan and tell people what you want to do and how you are going to do it.

[sadoldgit]

You ask us to imagine the flak that Corbyn would get from the media were he to denigrate an item of clothing worn by Jewish women and then when asked what type of clothing that would be, you have no idea. So what was the point of your argument then?

All that you have shown is that there is no particular item of Jewish women's clothing that is worthy of equivalent derision.

 

Are you for real? This has nothing to do with clothing. It has everything to do with denigrating people. Johnson is quite happy to stand up in public and make derogatory remarks about Muslims and Gays and people like you don’t bat an eyelid. Despite the fact that there is no evidence to support the claim that Corbyn is an anti-Semite and he has never made the kind of public pronouncements that Johnson has, Corbyn is the one who gets most grief. You seem to have a real problem with the concept of others wanting a level playing field. Why am I not surprised to find the loudest Tory supporter on here being okay with one rule for one, one rule for another?

[shurlock]

No, sorry, Gavyn; I can't imagine Corbyn making any similar remarks about a Jewish wig that could be comparable to describing a burqa as looking like a letterbox.

 

I hadn't heard of those, and it doesn't sound very obvious that it would be particularly noticeable even had I encountered any Jewish women wearing one. On the other hand, I sure as hell recognise a burqa, although it isn't necessarily certain that it is even a woman wearing it, so there are security implications.

 

1970's sex dolls, you say? Not my scene. I prefer the 1960s sex doll look, the close fitted skinny rib jumpers teamed up with the tartan mini-kilt and thigh length leather boots.

 

What woman's clothing look turns you on, Gavyn? Dungarees?

 

Do you use a pump or blow it up by mouth?

[Wes Tender]

Do you use a pump or blow it up by mouth?

 

I don't need to, Gavyn. I get plenty of the real thing, but thanks for your concern. I expect that when you're having it off, you're the one who does all the moaning, judging by your contributions on here.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Despite the fact that there is no evidence to support the claim that Corbyn is an anti-Semite and he has never made the kind of public pronouncements that Johnson has,

 

He attended a wreath laying ceremony of a terrorist that targeted Jews.

 

He publicly asked why an anti Semitic mural was removed, stating “why”

 

 

He wrote publicly that a book claiming, European finance was controlled by “men of a single and peculiar race”, was “brilliant”.

 

 

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

He attended a wreath laying ceremony of a terrorist that targeted Jews.

 

He publicly asked why an anti Semitic mural was removed, stating “why”

 

 

He wrote publicly that a book claiming, European finance was controlled by “men of a single and peculiar race”, was “brilliant”.

 

 

 

 

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Is that the best you can do? I was hoping that you could at least find pictures of him painting swastikas on Jewish graves.

[sadoldgit]

We are getting bogged down in irrelevant stuff. This thread is about the new Labour leader and what the Labour Party needs to do in order to win the next election. Can we get back on track and leave the Corbyn bashing for other threads?

[hypochondriac]

Are you for real? This has nothing to do with clothing. It has everything to do with denigrating people. Johnson is quite happy to stand up in public and make derogatory remarks about Muslims and Gays and people like you don’t bat an eyelid. Despite the fact that there is no evidence to support the claim that Corbyn is an anti-Semite and he has never made the kind of public pronouncements that Johnson has, Corbyn is the one who gets most grief. You seem to have a real problem with the concept of others wanting a level playing field. Why am I not surprised to find the loudest Tory supporter on here being okay with one rule for one, one rule for another?

Corbyn got grief because he is leading a major political party that is being investigated by the ehrc for systemic anti-semitism. Boris is not so he the reaction has not been as big. Ffs how is that a difficult concept to grasp?

[sadoldgit]

Ok, stuck with Corbyn. What you don’t seem to grasp was that Corbyn was under constant attack whereas Johnson wasn’t. Just not about issues about hate crime (which the press still seem to be letting Johnson off with) but a multitude of others issues. This is not something I am making up. It is a fact and it happens all the time.

[hypochondriac]

Ok, stuck with Corbyn. What you don’t seem to grasp was that Corbyn was under constant attack whereas Johnson wasn’t. Just not about issues about hate crime (which the press still seem to be letting Johnson off with) but a multitude of others issues. This is not something I am making up. It is a fact and it happens all the time.

Do you accept that we have now established that the reason the coverage of anti-Muslim bigotry in the Tory Party was different to the systemic antisemitism in the Labour Party is because it was not as serious? A simple yes will do.

[sadoldgit]

This from thelondoneconomic.com

 

“Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history.”

 

“Over 75% of Jeremy Corbyn’s media coverage factually misrepresents him.”

[sadoldgit]

Do you accept that we have now established that the reason the coverage of anti-Muslim bigotry in the Tory Party was different to the systemic antisemitism in the Labour Party is because it was not as serious? A simple yes will do.

 

We don’t know because the media largely ignored and is still ignoring it. Given your feelings towards Muslims you might be able to help me with this. Perhaps it is ok to be anti Muslim in this country but not ok to be anti Jew?

[Batman]

This from thelondoneconomic.com

 

“Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history.”

 

“Over 75% of Jeremy Corbyn’s media coverage factually misrepresents him.”

where does this politically sit WRT The Canary and Sqwakbox?

[CB Fry]

This from thelondoneconomic.com

 

“Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history.”

 

“Over 75% of Jeremy Corbyn’s media coverage factually misrepresents him.”

Just googled thelondoneconomic.com.

 

Not a f ucking sausage.

 

 

Edit: Take it all back, worked second time. Looks like a load of old sh it anyway.

Edited 10 January, 2020 by CB Fry

[hypochondriac]

We don’t know because the media largely ignored and is still ignoring it. Given your feelings towards Muslims you might be able to help me with this. Perhaps it is ok to be anti Muslim in this country but not ok to be anti Jew?

 

 

Presumably the ehrc didn't open their investigation based on media reports. We do know it isn't as serious because the ehrc haven't seen fit to open an investigation on the conservatives. Clearly the evidence is that it isn't as serious a problem, you basically admitted that yourself already.

 

Given your refusal to be thankful for the death of the person perhaps most responsible for more Muslim deaths than anyone else, maybe you should check your own feelings towards Muslims.

[sadoldgit]

Just googled thelondoneconomic.com.

 

Not a f ucking sausage.

 

 

Edit: Take it all back, worked second time. Looks like a load of old sh it anyway.

 

Which just goes to show how negative bias works. You have decided that Corbyn is a cretin and you dislike him. You have no idea whether this article is accurate or not, but you chose to rubbish it because it doesn’t fit in with what you want to believe. I can’t prove that the figures are 100% accurate, but given the many articles I have read recently about the negative media bias against Labour there is clearly something in it.

[OldNick]

This from thelondoneconomic.com

 

“Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history.”

 

“Over 75% of Jeremy Corbyn’s media coverage factually misrepresents him.”

he's a frigging Saint. I doubt he ever even knew who Adams was and the press made it up they met

[CB Fry]

Which just goes to show how negative bias works. You have decided that Corbyn is a cretin and you dislike him. You have no idea whether this article is accurate or not, but you chose to rubbish it because it doesn’t fit in with what you want to believe. I can’t prove that the figures are 100% accurate, but given the many articles I have read recently about the negative media bias against Labour there is clearly something in it.

Not really. I despise him because he has created a Labour party that could never get elected by populating it with cranks and loons in all positions of influence. He couldn't run the machinery of the party, had no empathy with the public, couldn't appeal beyond his activist base. And every element of the party ended up under the control of the cretin and his band of acolytes.

 

The newspapers say hes fu cking useless because he is fu cking useless. It would have been perfectly possible to have a Labour government post-Cameron, and perfectly possible to have squeaked victory in the EU referendum. I hold him hugely responsible for the first not happening and significantly responsible for the second not happening.

 

So spare me the horsesh it about the howwible newspapers and the howwible meeeja. He had no media plan, his team didn't have a clue on how to manage messages, they were absolutely useless at rebuttals when attacked and pathetic at making the political weather and telling stories to persuade the public.

 

All of this was obvious to me the day he got the job, I said so and so it proved.

 

Utterly useless old cu nt turns out to be utterly useless? The newspapers didn't have to lift a finger.

[whelk]

Marks out of 10 for his campaign?

Edited 12 January, 2020 by whelk
Meant to quote Fry

[Batman]

Not really. I despise him because he has created a Labour party that could never get elected by populating it with cranks and loons in all positions of influence. He couldn't run the machinery of the party, had no empathy with the public, couldn't appeal beyond his activist base. And every element of the party ended up under the control of the cretin and his band of acolytes.

 

The newspapers say hes fu cking useless because he is fu cking useless. It would have been perfectly possible to have a Labour government post-Cameron, and perfectly possible to have squeaked victory in the EU referendum. I hold him hugely responsible for the first not happening and significantly responsible for the second not happening.

 

So spare me the horsesh it about the howwible newspapers and the howwible meeeja. He had no media plan, his team didn't have a clue on how to manage messages, they were absolutely useless at rebuttals when attacked and pathetic at making the political weather and telling stories to persuade the public.

 

All of this was obvious to me the day he got the job, I said so and so it proved.

 

Utterly useless old cu nt turns out to be utterly useless? The newspapers didn't have to lift a finger.

 

You are probably unaware of the extent Murdoch has manipulated you.

 

Sad times

[sadoldgit]

You are probably unaware of the extent Murdoch has manipulated you.

 

Sad times

 

Perhaps you should have read Orwell if you think what goes on is ok. If the situation was reversed you might now be so blase about it.

[sadoldgit]

Not really. I despise him because he has created a Labour party that could never get elected by populating it with cranks and loons in all positions of influence. He couldn't run the machinery of the party, had no empathy with the public, couldn't appeal beyond his activist base. And every element of the party ended up under the control of the cretin and his band of acolytes.

 

The newspapers say hes fu cking useless because he is fu cking useless. It would have been perfectly possible to have a Labour government post-Cameron, and perfectly possible to have squeaked victory in the EU referendum. I hold him hugely responsible for the first not happening and significantly responsible for the second not happening.

 

So spare me the horsesh it about the howwible newspapers and the howwible meeeja. He had no media plan, his team didn't have a clue on how to manage messages, they were absolutely useless at rebuttals when attacked and pathetic at making the political weather and telling stories to persuade the public.

 

All of this was obvious to me the day he got the job, I said so and so it proved.

 

Utterly useless old cu nt turns out to be utterly useless? The newspapers didn't have to lift a finger.

 

It makes you wonder why they bothered then. I don’t disagree that the choice of leader was poor but they would have done the same with any Labour leader. The billionaire press barons do not want a socialist government, full stop. As said before, they have already started the campaign against Starmer. Also at what point do you abandon your principles and vote against a leader despite supporting the leader’s manifesto? Johnson wasn’t popular either but people still voted to “Get Brexit Done” despite him. Perhaps Nationalism is a stronger force?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Soggy is the Owen Jones of Saints web.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

Perhaps you should have read Orwell if you think what goes on is ok. If the situation was reversed you might now be so blase about it.

Lol. You hysterical old fool.

[sadoldgit]

Soggy is the Owen Jones of Saints web.

 

 

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I’d rather be that than the Tommy Robinson of Saintsweb. There you go hypo, another for your tally. Isn’t it strange how you righties are fine with lies and misrepresentation when it suits your own purposes.

[Weston Super Saint]

Perhaps you should have read Orwell if you think what goes on is ok. If the situation was reversed you might now be so blase about it.

 

Soggy, give it up!

 

The clown got negative press because he didn't do anything positive! He presented about as much of a challenge to the National press as a two year old waving sweets around in front of a sweet thief!

 

There was nothing Orwellian about the whole affair, that's just something you've made up to try and blame everyone else!

[shurlock]

Soggy, give it up!

 

The clown got negative press because he didn't do anything positive! He presented about as much of a challenge to the National press as a two year old waving sweets around in front of a sweet thief!

 

There was nothing Orwellian about the whole affair, that's just something you've made up to try and blame everyone else!

 

Did you wet your little knickers, Westie, like swathes of the media did, when Corbyn supposedly didn’t bow deeply enough at the Cenotaph and, in this parallel universe, stuck a massive two fingers up at Britain’s war dead?

Edited 12 January, 2020 by shurlock

[sadoldgit]

Soggy, give it up!

 

The clown got negative press because he didn't do anything positive! He presented about as much of a challenge to the National press as a two year old waving sweets around in front of a sweet thief!

 

There was nothing Orwellian about the whole affair, that's just something you've made up to try and blame everyone else!

 

Something I have made up? There are plenty of reports of media bias if you care to go and look for them. You won’t though because you aren’t interested. I am not saying that the Labour defeat was all down to media bias, but let’s not pretend that it didn’t work in your favour.

[sadoldgit]

Once again, perhaps we can get this thread back on track. It will be interesting to see how the media deal with the new Labour leader. Starmer, as a front runner, has already started to get negative press and that is before he has been elected. How long before the drip feed negativity starts for the other candidates?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hitchens had an interesting article published in The Mail today. Wrote that Labour need to go back to their pre 60’s position when they were conservative on crime, & social issues.

 

“Before it was taken over by Bloomsbury social liberals and Islington Eurocommunists , it was a highly conservative, patriotic, working-class party”.

 

“Labour councils used to proudly build and sustain grammar schools, knowing that they benefited Labour families more than anyone else, as well as benefiting the country as a whole with educational standards far higher than we have today.”

 

 

“Labour politicians understood that it was the poor who have most to fear from crime and disorder, and had little time for the liberal social theories that have gutted our police, courts and prisons.

Incredible as it may now seem, the Labour Premier Clement Attlee, and his Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin, both voted in 1948 to retain the death penalty for murder.”

 

 

“Modern Leftists, who claim to admire these men at a distance, do not really understand what sort of people they were.”

 

He goes on to call Boris “better at Blairism than Blair himself, being both much more intelligent and far funnier than the New Labour leader.” And then calls the Tories pinkos, stating when the present Labour candidates fight the next Election, “they’ll riding directly into Mr Johnson’s guns, and will make the Charge of the Light Brigade look like a shrewd move.”

 

Whilst not necessarily agreeing with everything, I found it a thoughtful piece that highlighted the problem the party has.

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

I see that Long Bailey is the preferred candidate of Momentum. No surprise there as she considered Corbyn's leadership to be worth 10 out of 10. Their inability to "get it" is just staggering.

 

Starmer appears to be the only grown up candidate I could see standing on the steps of Number 10. Apparently he is leading in polls of all members - not just Momentum. This country needs a credible opposition and I hope that he is still in the lead by the time the tortuous process is over.

[sadoldgit]

They really need to find themselves someone who appeals to the electorate. Making someone leader because they have ovaries and a northern accent will not help if that persons can’t take votes from the Tories. Blair managed it by having a total rebrand. It is probably time for another. We don’t often elect Labour governments in this country. Whoever gets the gig will have a hard job to turn things round.

[Jonnyboy]

"don't see Blair and New Labour as a good thing apart from getting elected." lol.

 

Well done for voting Blair in and causing the financial crisis which has bankrupted Briton lol.

[whelk]

Well done for voting Blair in and causing the financial crisis which has bankrupted Briton lol.

 

I always wondered who caused that. It was hypo all along.

[Weston Super Saint]

Something I have made up? There are plenty of reports of media bias if you care to go and look for them. You won’t though because you aren’t interested. I am not saying that the Labour defeat was all down to media bias, but let’s not pretend that it didn’t work in your favour.

 

Jesus wept!

 

Not one single person is disagreeing with you! We know there is plenty of media bias against Labour. Pretty sure we've all pointed out that the reason for this media bias, which nobody is denying is out there, is because of the incompetent chump that has been leading the party.

 

The whole Orwellian comparison IS something you've made up....

[sadoldgit]

Have I made up the establishment manufacturing “facts” in order to brainwash the public? Ok.

[sadoldgit]

Jesus wept!

 

Not one single person is disagreeing with you! We know there is plenty of media bias against Labour. Pretty sure we've all pointed out that the reason for this media bias, which nobody is denying is out there, is because of the incompetent chump that has been leading the party.

 

The whole Orwellian comparison IS something you've made up....

 

What about the negative campaigns against the likes of Kinnock, Milliband etc? It hasn’t just been Corbyn, it is a common factor with Labour. Are you saying that the majority of the national press is completely unbiased and only ganged up on Corbyn?