Britain's Next Top Prime Minister - Labour Leadership Election 2020.

[CB Fry]

Obviously this is all anyone is going to want to talk about from now until April, so let's keep all the discussion in one place.

 

Jess?

Kier?

Rebecca?

That other one?

 

Personally I rather liked Starmer's launch video yesterday, so let's start with that.

 

...........

 

 

I believe another future is possible – but we have to fight for it.

 

That’s why I’m standing to be leader of the Labour Party.

 

Join me and together we can – and we will – win: https://t.co/7LQiNItoDU https://t.co/hZQaDBmx3M

[Tamesaint]

Its got to be Keir.

 

Things may look tough for the Labour party now but what a good time to take over. The only way is up. Let Boris bluster and f uck things up . Appear semi competent and Number 10 is yours. .

[Nolan]

They were all complicit in trying to elect Corbyn.

 

This leadership election will be synonymous with the conservatives 2003 leadership election. There will need to be at least another general election and another Labour intake free of the stench of Corbynism before they become electable again.

 

 

Starmer and Lady Nugee will be a huge two fingers up at the workers in the North.

Long Bailey's Socialism wont work.

Jess Phillips' simple contrarianism is light-weight.

Nandy was looking like someone scared at a job interview on Ridge on Sunday.

Clive "on your knees b!tch" lewis has the history of Clive Lewis.

Ian Lavery - well every body knows how much money he got out of a 10 person union.

 

if they want to get anywhere they need to find an MP whos been out of the limelight recently.. Ben Bradshaw or Dan Jarvis for example.

[shurlock]

They were all complicit in trying to elect Corbyn.

 

This leadership election will be synonymous with the conservatives 2003 leadership election. There will need to be at least another general election and another Labour intake free of the stench of Corbynism before they become electable again.

 

 

Starmer and Lady Nugee will be a huge two fingers up at the workers in the North.

Long Bailey's Socialism wont work.

Jess Phillips' simple contrarianism is light-weight.

Nandy was looking like someone scared at a job interview on Ridge on Sunday.

Clive "on your knees b!tch" lewis has the history of Clive Lewis.

Ian Lavery - well every body knows how much money he got out of a 10 person union.

 

if they want to get anywhere they need to find an MP whos been out of the limelight recently.. Ben Bradshaw or Dan Jarvis for example.

 

Surprised you stopped short of calling Keir Starmer, Keir Smarmy. Almost a full house there.

 

You worked out how it’s mathematically impossible to eliminate poverty yet? Still waiting for an answer pal.

Edited 7 January, 2020 by shurlock

[Nolan]

Surprised you stopped short of calling Keir Starmer, Keir Smarmy. Almost a full house there.

 

You worked out how it’s mathematically impossible to eliminate poverty yet? Still waiting for an answer pal.

 

Yes Gavyn, I'm fully aware. There is no point attempting any discourse with you. Bye.

[shurlock]

Yes Gavyn, I'm fully aware. There is no point attempting any discourse with you. Bye.

 

So you withdraw the comment and admit you got it wrong. It was spectacularly idiotic. Fair enough, we move on.

[CB Fry]

Sqwarkbox sweetheart and Union subs petty cash tin fiend Ian Lavery has abandoned his candidacy and thrown in behind Long Bailey.

 

Looks like he couldn't secure the backing of the MPs required, most likely because I believe he has a track record of, er, stealing money from his union and buying a house with it. But on the plus side he always goes to the Durham Miners Gala, like, every single year, which is jolly important to the wider electorate.

 

Anyway he's out of the running so there will be only one continuity Corbyn candidate for that constituency to get excited by.

[Nolan]

Very interesting to see Stephen Kinnock get behind Nandy

[buctootim]

They were all complicit in trying to elect Corbyn.

 

if they want to get anywhere they need to find an MP whos been out of the limelight recently.. Ben Bradshaw or Dan Jarvis for example.

 

Ben Bradshaw is hugely underrated. I’d vote for him, but he’s the epitome of a southern intellectual metrosexual. He wouldn’t play well up north - less well than Starmer.

Edited 7 January, 2020 by buctootim

[shurlock]

Very interesting to see Stephen Kinnock get behind Nandy

 

Didn’t Kinnock say he wanted the next leader to be a woman? Isn’t that enough for all the Brendan O’Neill fanboys and mens rights activists to come out of the woodwork?

[rallyboy]

They need to accept that they just finished bottom of the table with 0 points and require a massive clearout and rethink.

And any new leader needs to be squeaky clean and incredibly thick-skinned, because the usual suspect media outlets are out there today, building a stock of stories to attack each candidate.

Even though some might suggest that at this stage the healthier approach for a balanced society might be to hold to account those who are actually in power...

[Sheaf Saint]

Ben Bradshaw is hugely underrated. I’d vote for him, but he’s the epitome of a southern intellectual metrosexual. He wouldn’t play well up north - less well than Starmer.

 

I live in a typical northern Labour industrial area, and most people I speak to think Starmer is the best candidate. Obviously that's only a very small sample of people, but anecdotally it would appear that his northern appeal is stronger than some might expect.

 

I also think it will depend largely on who the deputy is. If it's someone with strong northern working class roots who he can can form a good leadership team with then I reckon that will be a massive vote-winner in 2024, when it becomes apparent just what a total catastrof*ck the Tories have made of Brexit.

[sadoldgit]

We hear that the next Labour leader should be a woman and/or a northerner. Surely the next Labour leader should be the person most likely to get them elected? Out of the current candidates, for me the front runner is Starmer. What he lacks in charisma he makes up for with gravitas and is a polar opposite of Johnson. As a former QC he will give Johnson a hard time at the dispatch box. Having sat in a couple of meetings with him when he was the DPP I was impressed with the way he asked questions and actually listened to the answers. Other DPPs just turned up and spoke at you. Starmer has the clout and intelligence to turn Labour around. Whether he gets the chance remains to be seen. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a watered down version of Corbyn end up in the hot seat but more of the same will do them no favours. This country has always been conservative (with a small c) and the new leader will not only have to win over middle England, they will also have to win back the disaffected long standing Labour voters who have defected to Johnson. No easy task. The new leader will have to be flexible, dogma will not cut it. Get it right and they have a reasonable chance of turning the last nightmare around at the next election. Make the wrong choice and it is hard to see Labour forming a government for years to come.

[Wes Tender]

Surprised you stopped short of calling Keir Starmer, Keir Smarmy. Almost a full house there.

 

You worked out how it’s mathematically impossible to eliminate poverty yet? Still waiting for an answer pal.

 

Oi! The Keir Smarmy epithet is mine, Gavyn, and it fits him to a T.

 

Personally I couldn't care a toss who is elected leader of the Labour Party or the Lib Dumbs, as both parties are the architects of their own downfall with the electorate and will not have much relevance as political forces for at least the next five years, perhaps even longer. By that time the UK will be thriving outside of the EU straightjacket and the Tories will have introduced One Nation policy initiatives to address the North / South divide, encouraging those Red Wall constituencies that they are the most competent party of government by the time of the next GE.

[sadoldgit]

Is there no escaping you Wes? As for the One Nation claptrap, sounds like you have swallowed that hook, line and sinker.

[Wes Tender]

Is there no escaping you Wes? As for the One Nation claptrap, sounds like you have swallowed that hook, line and sinker.

 

There is always the ignore button, Soggy. I recognise that you are probably still a bit sore from your party's ignominious defeat (whichever party it was) and that any counter opinions are rubbing salt in your wounds, but the reality is that the Tories are pretty well untouchable as the government for the next five years. As for the One Nation Toryism, we will just have to wait and see, won't we? I recognise that the Red Wall constituencies lent Boris their votes, but for some reason you don't think that it would be an intelligent idea for the Tories to implement the policies to try and keep them. Why would that be, Soggy?

[miserableoldgit]

Is there no escaping you Wes? As for the One Nation claptrap, sounds like you have swallowed that hook, line and sinker.

Isn't it amazing that only one side of the political "debate" falls for claptrap whilst the other side is convinced that they are right and never gets "taken in" by anything....

 

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[sadoldgit]

When the food banks disappear, when people are no longer sleeping on the streets, when child poverty is irradicated, when the Universal Credit system is fit for purpose, perhaps then they can talk about “One Nation” with a level of sincerity.

[OldNick]

When the food banks disappear, when people are no longer sleeping on the streets, when child poverty is irradicated, when the Universal Credit system is fit for purpose, perhaps then they can talk about “One Nation” with a level of sincerity.

If we put unending money into the system do you believe that this will be gone? Its not all down to money.

I understand that you are sore with the system due to UC and that the state will not pay your mortgage but you are asking for a utopia that is impossible.

I have asked before but I dont think anyone answered the question, what qualifies as child poverty?

[sadoldgit]

There is always the ignore button, Soggy. I recognise that you are probably still a bit sore from your party's ignominious defeat (whichever party it was) and that any counter opinions are rubbing salt in your wounds, but the reality is that the Tories are pretty well untouchable as the government for the next five years. As for the One Nation Toryism, we will just have to wait and see, won't we? I recognise that the Red Wall constituencies lent Boris their votes, but for some reason you don't think that it would be an intelligent idea for the Tories to implement the policies to try and keep them. Why would that be, Soggy?

 

Given that the reason we have these issues at the moment is down to the very people who are now saying they are going to do something about it, it does leave me feeling somewhat sceptical. Especially as the current PM is a congenital liar and is completely untrustworthy. Let’s see what happens shall we. I am not holding my breath as we have already had a number of u turns already.

[aintforever]

Oi! The Keir Smarmy epithet is mine, Gavyn, and it fits him to a T.

 

Personally I couldn't care a toss who is elected leader of the Labour Party or the Lib Dumbs, as both parties are the architects of their own downfall with the electorate and will not have much relevance as political forces for at least the next five years, perhaps even longer. By that time the UK will be thriving outside of the EU straightjacket and the Tories will have introduced One Nation policy initiatives to address the North / South divide, encouraging those Red Wall constituencies that they are the most competent party of government by the time of the next GE.

 

A lot of assumptions there. If we are thriving outside the EU it won't matter who is Labour leader or who wins the Red Wall constituencies - the Tories will win regardless.

 

That's a big if though.

[sadoldgit]

If we put unending money into the system do you believe that this will be gone? Its not all down to money.

I understand that you are sore with the system due to UC and that the state will not pay your mortgage but you are asking for a utopia that is impossible.

I have asked before but I dont think anyone answered the question, what qualifies as child poverty?

 

I am not sore that UC would not pay our mortgage. I am sore that my wife, who had worked all her life, got no financial support after all of the years of paying NI contributions, and was given no support in a system that is supposed to be there for you if you are looking for work. Perhaps if you had to use the system yourself you might understand. Better still, watch the film I, Daniel Blake. It is spot on. Instead of taking cheap shots at me, perhaps you should address the problem we have with poverty in general in the country? 5th largest economy but you wouldn’t know it. You don’t believe the official figures about child poverty? You might not have seen people sleeping rough where you live but you must have seen the foodbanks in your supermarket? Perhaps you think that it is all a conspiracy theory?

[Jonnyboy]

I am not sore that UC would not pay our mortgage. I am sore that my wife, who had worked all her life, got no financial support after all of the years of paying NI contributions, and was given no support in a system that is supposed to be there for you if you are looking for work. Perhaps if you had to use the system yourself you might understand. Better still, watch the film I, Daniel Blake. It is spot on. Instead of taking cheap shots at me, perhaps you should address the problem we have with poverty in general in the country? 5th largest economy but you wouldn’t know it. You don’t believe the official figures about child poverty? You might not have seen people sleeping rough where you live but you must have seen the foodbanks in your supermarket? Perhaps you think that it is all a conspiracy theory?

 

He probably believes all tax is theft.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Having joined The Tories to vote for a Brexiter PM. I was thinking of doing the same with labour. I thought Lady Nugee a north London snob, committed remoaner, part of the metropolitan elite who had more chance of going to the moon in a shoe box, than reconnecting with the Red wall voters, would be worth chucking a few quid to elect. However, I’ll save my money as it looks like the membership chumps are going to vote for their very own version. Starmer, the man behind the Brexit policy disaster, liberal metropolitan to his finger tips, the charisma of a damp flannel, and the walking, talking example of exactly why the working man has abandoned The Party. Mind you, having a penis may work against him as some will want to tick the diversity box. Jess Philips will also be worth a laugh, as she’s unhinged. I just hope the debates are televised. That’ll be highly amusing....

 

As someone right of centre, I’d fear Nandy the most.

 

 

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[Nolan]

Watching tonight's debate, it looks as if the only person capable of leading Labour is Graham Stringer.

 

How he gets it, but no other Labour MP does is intriguing.

[hypochondriac]

Having joined The Tories to vote for a Brexiter PM. I was thinking of doing the same with labour. I thought Lady Nugee a north London snob, committed remoaner, part of the metropolitan elite who had more chance of going to the moon in a shoe box, than reconnecting with the Red wall voters, would be worth chucking a few quid to elect. However, I’ll save my money as it looks like the membership chumps are going to vote for their very own version. Starmer, the man behind the Brexit policy disaster, liberal metropolitan to his finger tips, the charisma of a damp flannel, and the walking, talking example of exactly why the working man has abandoned The Party. Mind you, having a penis may work against him as some will want to tick the diversity box. Jess Philips will also be worth a laugh, as she’s unhinged. I just hope the debates are televised. That’ll be highly amusing....

 

As someone right of centre, I’d fear Nandy the most.

 

 

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Nandy is absolutely the best out of the ones standing. She has zero chance though.

[aintforever]

Starmer is probably the best out of that lot IMO. But I expect after five years of Boris, Labour could have Crusty the Clown as leader and still win back the Red Wall.

[Lord Duckhunter]

According to Nick Watt on Newsnight, Nandy was impressive at hustings tonight, even impressed lefties. He also claims nervousness from Wrong-Daily camp as she bombs. She also gave Jezza 10 out of 10 when asked to mark him by ITN...........

 

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Starmer is probably the best out of that lot IMO. But I expect after five years of Boris, Labour could have Crusty the Clown as leader and still win back the Red Wall.

 

No ****ing chance.......

 

#stilldontgetit

 

 

 

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

The Sun has taken to preceding Keir Starmer with “millionaire barrister.” Not sure what that has got to do with anything.

 

Perhaps they should also precede Boris Johnson with “serial adulterer and congenital liar” just to balance things up?

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Sun has taken to preceding Keir Starmer with “millionaire barrister.” Not sure what that has got to do with anything.

 

Perhaps they should also precede Boris Johnson with “serial adulterer and congenital liar” just to balance things up?

 

Clam down Boomer.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

The Sun has taken to preceding Keir Starmer with “millionaire barrister.” Not sure what that has got to do with anything.

 

Perhaps they should also precede Boris Johnson with “serial adulterer and congenital liar” just to balance things up?

I think it is pretty relevant when you think that one of his main jobs is to come across cross as relatable to the working class. I'm sure the team around him and Starmer himself will be considering it relevant and one obstacle he will have to overcome.

[shurlock]

According to Nick Watt on Newsnight, Nandy was impressive at hustings tonight, even impressed lefties. He also claims nervousness from Wrong-Daily camp as she bombs. She also gave Jezza 10 out of 10 when asked to mark him by ITN...........

 

 

 

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Wrong-Daily

 

PMSL

[shurlock]

I think it is pretty relevant when you think that one of his main jobs is to come across cross as relatable to the working class. I'm sure the team around him and Starmer himself will be considering it relevant and one obstacle he will have to overcome.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-reason-keir-starmer-sounds-middle-class-is-that-he-is-in-fact-working-class/

[aintforever]

No ****ing chance.......

 

#stilldontgetit

 

 

 

 

 

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Not sure how an opinion of a right wing nut-job like you is even relevant? You’re never going to be one of their target voters.

 

Labour lost because their leader was a toxic brand, his policies were too extreme and Brexit destroyed their core vote. As long as they come up with a half sensible manifesto I doubt they will have much problem winning their traditional seats back as none of those will be a factor. Winning overall is a different story though obviously.

 

Everything depends on how Brexit plays out, for that we will just have to wait and see.

[hypochondriac]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-reason-keir-starmer-sounds-middle-class-is-that-he-is-in-fact-working-class/

That may well be true but that's still the image he has to sell well because that isn't how he currently comes accross.

[Jonnyboy]

Clam down Boomer.

 

 

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That's not how you say it.

[Tamesaint]

I think it is pretty relevant when you think that one of his main jobs is to come across cross as relatable to the working class. I'm sure the team around him and Starmer himself will be considering it relevant and one obstacle he will have to overcome.

 

Labour must never forget that many people of all classes aspire to become rich and successful. One of Corbyn's many faults was to keep on talking about taxing the rich ... and in so doing denting the aspirations of people to better themselves.

 

Starmer comes from a working class, staunchly Labour family. That is how he acquired his Christian name. If, and it is a big if, he can demonstrate that he is not a toff and can convince people that he is a working class lad who has made good, then I think he will become our next PM.

[whelk]

If, and it is a big if, he can demonstrate that he is not a toff and can convince people that he is a working class lad who has made good, then I think he will become our next PM.

 

A very patronising view of the electorate and contradicts your first point. Most people aren’t hung up on roots but want to be able to trust the personalities and believe their policies are working for them.

[Nolan]

The Sun has taken to preceding Keir Starmer with “millionaire barrister.” Not sure what that has got to do with anything.

 

Perhaps they should also precede Boris Johnson with “serial adulterer and congenital liar” just to balance things up?

They could have gone with "millionaire barrister who was in charge of the crown prosecution service when Warboys wasn't charged with his extra offences" so you should be thankful.

[Lord Duckhunter]

They could have gone with "millionaire barrister who was in charge of the crown prosecution service when Warboys wasn't charged with his extra offences" so you should be thankful.

 

Or “millionaire hypocrite who studied at a grammar school but wants to deny your children that opportunity”.

 

 

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[Weston Super Saint]

As long as they come up with a half sensible manifesto I doubt they will have much problem winning their traditional seats back as none of those will be a factor.

 

Any reason why they can't produce a fully sensible manifesto, or would that not get any votes?

[shurlock]

It’s odd - you have “Im alright, Jack” types like Les, GM and Lord Pony banging on about the importance of graft, aspiration and self-improvement and how Corbyn and his posho Marxist clique in Islington patronised the working classes by dismissing these values as rightwing brainwashing (because the working classes, so runs their little story, are too thick to know what’s best for them).

 

Then you have Keir Starmer come along who on any measure is living breathing vindication of graft, aspiration and self-improvement and they all get their knickers in a twist. Is it envy (after all, Les and GM are privately educated mediocrities) or double standards and hypocrisy (because he’s not on their side politically)?

Edited 8 January, 2020 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Or “millionaire hypocrite who studied at a grammar school but wants to deny your children that opportunity”.

 

 

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Thicker by the day. There are good reasons why grammar schools may have created a level playing field in Starmer’s day; but nowadays are more likely to work against equality of opportunity. David Willetts had the integrity and intelligence to follow the evidence, unlike many of the swivels in the Conservative Party.

[CB Fry]

Labour must never forget that many people of all classes aspire to become rich and successful. One of Corbyn's many faults was to keep on talking about taxing the rich ... and in so doing denting the aspirations of people to better themselves.

 

Starmer comes from a working class, staunchly Labour family. That is how he acquired his Christian name. If, and it is a big if, he can demonstrate that he is not a toff and can convince people that he is a working class lad who has made good, then I think he will become our next PM.

Cameron, May, Blair and Johnson didn't need to convince anyone that they were "working class made good" so not sure why it is suddenly a priority for any other future Prime Minister.

[shurlock]

Cameron, May, Blair and Johnson didn't need to convince anyone that they were "working class made good" so not sure why it is suddenly a priority for any other future Prime Minister.

 

Tbf, he was only addressing the claim made elsewhere on this thread that Starmer was unrelatable to the working class. And the usual attack dogs in the media are certainly interested in his background.

[CB Fry]

Tbf, he was only addressing the claim made elsewhere on this thread that Starmer was unrelatable to the working class. And the usual attack dogs in the media are certainly interested in his background.

Oh, absolutely. If he wins then he will be portrayed as "the establishment" because he is left leaning and a lawyer and interested in appalling things like human rights. Not anti-establishment like that nice Boris Johnson.

 

But whoever wins will have some cross to bear, be it being fake working class or real working class and northern therefore thick.

[badgerx16]

...and northern therefore blessed.

 

Fixed it.

[Wes Tender]

It’s odd - you have “Im alright, Jack” types like Les, GM and Lord Pony banging on about the importance of graft, aspiration and self-improvement and how Corbyn and his posho Marxist clique in Islington patronised the working classes by dismissing these values as rightwing brainwashing (because the working classes, so runs their little story, are too thick to know what’s best for them).

 

Then you have Keir Starmer come along who on any measure is living breathing vindication of graft, aspiration and self-improvement and they all get their knickers in a twist. Is it envy (after all, Les and GM are privately educated mediocrities) or double standards and hypocrisy (because he’s not on their side politically)?

 

Says the biggest "I'm alright Jack" merchant of them all, the one who states that it doesn't matter what happens to the economy because it won't effect him at all. You're a hypocrite, Gavyn.

 

And this smearing of the working classes as being supposedly thick, was a ruse by the remoaners, not just the Islington champagne socialists, against leave voters often comprising working class voters. These remoaners largely comprised lefties, epitomised by Corbyn's metropolitan power base, the left-leaning media, especially the BBC, the chattering classes, the higher education establishment and students, and minor celebrity luvvies. It should therefore come as no surprise to anybody with any intelligence that those insulted as being thick for voting to leave the EU should exact their revenge in first the European Elections and then the General Election by voting for the only main party broadly supporting our departure from the EU, the Tories.

 

As for your assertion that GM, LD and me are somehow getting our knickers in a twist over Sir Keir Smarmy, envious of his achievements in life from humble beginnings, or wistful that he is not more on the right wing of politics, I can't speak for others, but in my opinion that really is rib-ticklingly funny. You make the assertion that we laud success and prosperity through hard graft on the one hand, and then claim that we would then be jealous of somebody making a success of their life that way. It isn't like you to appear confused and argue against yourself, Gavyn.

 

Frankly, I couldn't give a toss who Labour elects, as it won't make the slightest difference for the next five years. Starmer was the main proponent of Labour's remoaner stance as the shadow Brexit secretary, so he has alienated that potential support from the Labour industrial heartlands. For somebody supposedly so intelligent, he hasn't exactly played his hand with much political skill and guile.

[Tamesaint]

A very patronising view of the electorate and contradicts your first point. Most people aren’t hung up on roots but want to be able to trust the personalities and believe their policies are working for them.

 

The candidates at this election are already being stereotyped. Corbyn's stereotype lost him many votes. Johnson's won him votes. Starmer's apparent problem is that he is posh and thus not fit to lead the Labour party when in fact he is not.