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Blasphemy and Duck Rape

Yorkshire Saint

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Watching an interview with Gervais for example you don’t expect serious debate, you want humour and entertainment, which is exactly what you get. Not hard to work it out is it.

No it isn’t, you’re right. However many of these humourous entertainers seem to make more coherent arguments than the religious crackpots they come up against.

Was Rashford wrong about school dinners because he’s just a footballer?

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Again, as the original OP pointed out, he hasn't 'literally' copied, he has paraphrased.  Why should he need to check any of the claims, surely they can also be classed as a 'story' - or again, is it only stories you agree with that don't need to be fact checked?

As for your second point, your reference to the 'story Jesus used' is the very definition of 'confirmation bias' isn't it?  How about just sticking to answering the questions rather than throwing insults around - it makes it look like you've lost the argument when you do that ;)

Do you know what the difference is between a story and a claim? 

Edited by Turkish
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Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No it isn’t, you’re right. However many of these humourous entertainers seem to make more coherent arguments than the religious crackpots they come up against.

Was Rashford wrong about school dinners because he’s just a footballer?

not really sure what the link is between a footballer doing charity work and a comeidan cracking a few jokes at the expense of a priest. 

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Turkish said:

not really sure what the link is between a footballer doing charity work and a comeidan cracking a few jokes at the expense of a priest. 

The point is that just because it’s not someone’s job, doesn’t mean they aren’t making valid, intelligent points.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

The point is that just because it’s not someone’s job, doesn’t mean they aren’t making valid, intelligent points.

Then Rashford is a very bad example, as he grew up in the area with very poor parents, so can relate to exactly what he was supporting. I like Ricky Gervais and he does make some valid points sometimes, i like his stance of game killings for example. However the example our friend linked earlier is classic example of someone lapping up what someone they like has said because it confirms their view point without bothering to check any of the facts behind their claims. 

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Golactico

Golactico

Posted
Posted

The Bible is clear that salvation is only possible through the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4: 10-12). It also says that those who don’t believe will be condemned (John 3:18). 

It's not a great book, but if you have decided to live your life by it, probably best to be familiar with its content - or are those verses not included in the ones that Christians like to cherry pick?

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Turkish

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Posted
Just now, Golactico said:

The Bible is clear that salvation is only possible through the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4: 10-12). It also says that those who don’t believe will be condemned (John 3:18). 

It's not a great book, but if you have decided to live your life by it, probably best to be familiar with its content - or are those verses not included in the ones that Christians like to cherry pick?

Another assumption and not checking your facts properly my friend! You really should ask more questions rather than assume.

Im simply pointing out the flaws in your heroes arguments, The ridiculous claim that a serial rapist and murder can have a bowl of fried chicken on death row and ask god for forgiveness and will spend eternity living in heaven as just one example. 

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Golactico said:

The Bible is clear that salvation is only possible through the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 4: 10-12). It also says that those who don’t believe will be condemned (John 3:18). 

It's not a great book, but if you have decided to live your life by it, probably best to be familiar with its content - or are those verses not included in the ones that Christians like to cherry pick?

Another assumption and not checking your facts properly my friend! You really should ask more questions rather than assume.

Im simply pointing out the flaws in your heroes arguments, The ridiculous claim that a serial rapist and murder can have a bowl of fried chicken on death row and ask god for forgiveness and will spend eternity living in heaven as just one example. 

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Golactico

Golactico

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Another assumption and not checking your facts properly my friend! You really should ask more questions rather than assume.

Im simply pointing out the flaws in your heroes arguments, The ridiculous claim that a serial rapist and murder can have a bowl of fried chicken on death row and ask god for forgiveness and will spend eternity living in heaven as just one example. 

  • If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
  • If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
  • Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
  • Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper,
    but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.
  • Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
  • For the Lord your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from you if you return to him.
  • The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
  • But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
  • From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
  • Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
  • Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
  • Rend your heart
    and not your garments.
    Return to the Lord your God,
    for he is gracious and compassionate,
    slow to anger and abounding in love,
    and he relents from sending calamity.
  • I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
  • For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
  • In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
  • “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
  • I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
  • ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty.
  • Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
  • In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.
  • I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
  • Repent at my rebuke!
    Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
    I will make known to you my teachings.
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Golactico said:
  • If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
  • If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
  • Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
  • Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper,
    but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.
  • Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
  • For the Lord your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from you if you return to him.
  • The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
  • But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
  • From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
  • Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
  • Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
  • Rend your heart
    and not your garments.
    Return to the Lord your God,
    for he is gracious and compassionate,
    slow to anger and abounding in love,
    and he relents from sending calamity.
  • I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
  • For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
  • In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
  • “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
  • I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
  • ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty.
  • Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
  • In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.
  • I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
  • Repent at my rebuke!
    Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
    I will make known to you my teachings.

Did you forget to include the many ones about commanding not to murder and those that do will not inherit gods kingdom?

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Did you forget to include the many ones about commanding not to murder and those that do will not inherit gods kingdom?

Can you really not see how only one evil verse is required to prove that the character of God in the Bible is not 100% kind and loving?

The Bible is riddled with contradictions. The commandment that says don't kill is contradicted by the punishment for other commandments which is to be put to death.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
1 hour ago, Turkish said:

The ridiculous claim that a serial rapist and murder can have a bowl of fried chicken on death row and ask god for forgiveness and will spend eternity living in heaven as just one example. 

A huge number of people believe the Bible does say that anyone can have a death bed change of heart and repent and get to heaven to hero worship God for eternity.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
19 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yep and from that you are able to form your own view and formulate your own opinion. Not quote someone else’s verbatim, so what’s your point?

Opinion comes from deciding Sam Harris is correct rather than incorrect given the evidence. Why do you seem to be declaring every opinion has to be independent from what anyone else in history has said?

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Opinion comes from deciding Sam Harris is correct rather than incorrect given the evidence. Why do you seem to be declaring every opinion has to be independent from what anyone else in history has said?

He didn't give an opinion, he gave the opinion of Sam Harris. He even used his words. I know you struggle to have an opinion too so no surprises you two are getting on.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
1 minute ago, Turkish said:

1) He didn't give an opinion, he gave the opinion of Sam Harris. He even used his words.

2) I know you struggle to have an opinion too so no surprises you two are getting on.

1) His opinion is the thought of Sam Harris on this issue are correct.

2) Puzzling why you think I don't have opinions on things! In the case of Saints for example, my opinion on a vast range of things about the club is both huge and publicly available. More so I would think than any other person in the world! 

 

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Turkish

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) His opinion is the thought of Sam Harris on this issue are correct.

2) Puzzling why you think I don't have opinions on things! In the case of Saints for example, my opinion on a vast range of things about the club is both huge and publicly available. More so I would think than any other person in the world! 

 

So like i said, his opinion is a mimickry, his opinion is the opinion of someone else. Thanks for proving me right.

Putting a log of numbers into a spreadsheet for a computer game is not having an opinion.

 

 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
19 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

1) That’s a pretty accurate description (although I fully believe he’s extremely loving). 

2) God is constantly waiting for people to repent and has far more patience than the rest of us. I think most would have given up on this world by now. 

3) There’s always Wikipedia for young Matthew, don’t forget 

1) How is 'extremely loving' compatible with a global genocidal flood? Or giving Adam & Eve a test that he knew before they took it they would fail? etc etc

2) God has given up multiple times. Despite knowing the future he keeps fucking up and starting again. That makes him incompetent.

3) 'Young Matthew'... I've been on these Saints forums for nearly 20 years. How old do you think I am?

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

1) So like i said, his opinion is a mimickry, his opinion is the opinion of someone else. Thanks for proving me right.

2) Putting a log of numbers into a spreadsheet for a computer game is not having an opinion.

1) Agreeing with someone is having an opinion that they are correct rather than someone else. Why do you think every opinion should be unconnected from what anyone has ever said before in history?

2) If I decided Lloyd James was 9 for passing in 2008, then that is having an opinion. I have entered many, many thousands of my opinions on Saints for many years. More so than anyone else in that it is also publicly available and brought millions of times. It appears another word to add to 'literally' for words Turkish doesn't understand the meaning of is 'opinion'.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So how many? Quantify huge.

I can't, I didn't say I could. But are you really disputing the Bible isn't believed to be the literal truth by millions of people? I've already pointed you in the direction of where in the Bible people can get their justification for deathbed repentance. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Odd that you seem to have just accepted all those, verbatim and haven't mentioned that any of them should be 'checked out' before doing so....

Simply pointing out the one sided argument pal, he's quoted lots of ones that say about repenting of sins but ignored the ones which give the command not to kill and those that do will not inherit gods kingdom. Which is inconsistent with the claim that a serial murderer on death row can be forgiven over a bucket of fried chicken.

Edited by Turkish
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Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

I can't, I didn't say I could. But are you really disputing the Bible isn't believed to be the literal truth by millions of people? I've already pointed you in the direction of where in the Bible people can get their justification for deathbed repentance. 

So you dont know then, fair enough thought not, yet another claim with no substance. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I love watching videos if Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Gervais or Fry on YouTube. Hitch has to be my favourite though, seeing religious leaders floundering around his wit and intellect is just wonderful.

I'd recommend Matt Dillahunty rather than any of them.

Dawkins is terrible at debate. Gervais doesn't go into any depth. Fry just gets angry. Hitchens goes off on too many irrelevant tangents. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So you dont know then, fair enough thought not, yet another claim with no substance. 

Yet again. You ignored by question. If you really what evidence, look up any study of how many people beleive the Bible is the literal truth. Any person that does will think that Luke is correct about deathbed repenting.

This graph is from Christianity Today 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2019/december/biblical-literalism-among-american-protestants.html

Biblical Literalism among American Protestants | The Exchange | A ...

So 31% of people in that study by Christianity Today believe the Bible is literally word for word true. That equates to millions of people... just like I claimed!

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) Agreeing with someone is having an opinion that they are correct rather than someone else. Why do you think every opinion should be unconnected from what anyone has ever said before in history?

2) If I decided Lloyd James was 9 for passing in 2008, then that is having an opinion. I have entered many, many thousands of my opinions on Saints for many years. More so than anyone else in that it is also publicly available and brought millions of times. It appears another word to add to 'literally' for words Turkish doesn't understand the meaning of is 'opinion'.

Oh dear, Matthew now resorts to trying to take the intellectual high ground, you'll be mentioning your masters degree next! When all else fails try to make out they aren't as clever as you. 🤣

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Yet again. You ignored by question. If you really what evidence, look up any study of how many people beleive the Bible is the literal truth. Any person that does will think that Luke is correct about deathbed repenting.

This graph is from Christianity Today 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2019/december/biblical-literalism-among-american-protestants.html

Biblical Literalism among American Protestants | The Exchange | A ...

So 31% of people in that study by Christianity Today believe the Bible is literally word for word true. That equates to millions of people... just like I claimed!

If they believe it to be literally true then they will also believe that murders will not inherit gods kingdom. So therefore cannot commit murder after murder then say sorry on death row. Yet again you prove me right. 

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
Just now, Turkish said:

Oh dear, Matthew now resorts to trying to take the intellectual high ground, you'll be mentioning your masters degree next! When all else fails try to make out they aren't as clever as you. 🤣

It is a pretty low piece of high-ground, considering all I did was point out to you you don't seem to understand 'literally' or 'opinion'. Those are primary school words.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

If they believe it to be literally true then they will also believe that murders will not inherit gods kingdom. So therefore cannot commit murder after murder then say sorry on death row. Yet again you prove me right. 

Why have you decided it says murder rather than kill? 

Exodus 20:13 says...

"Thou shalt not kill"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20&version=KJV

That contradicts all the instructions by God to kill. So the book is flawed and riddled with contradictions! 🙄

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Golactico

Golactico

Posted
Posted

Oh, and St Paul is widely thought of as having been a murderer of Christians prior to repenting and being offered salvation. He ended up being one of Jesus' best mates! He knew how to play the game.

Oh, and a lazy assumption has been made that I found a video on YouTube and have framed my whole outlook around that. Convenient, but lazy and presumptious. My life experience actually puts me in an ideal position to form a balanced view on these matters. Note that I'm not claiming to be 'correct', just well informed.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why have you decided it says murder rather than kill? 

Exodus 20:13 says...

"Thou shalt not kill"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20&version=KJV

That contradicts all the instructions by God to kill. So the book is flawed and riddled with contradictions! 🙄

The bible has more than one verse pal

Galatians 5:21
 
King James Version
 

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
17 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I love watching videos if Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Gervais or Fry on YouTube. Hitch has to be my favourite though, seeing religious leaders floundering around his wit and intellect is just wonderful.

 

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

What do you expect? Most of the ones you list are trained actors, journalist or comedians who are coached to be good at public speaking and appealing to the masses.  Most religious leaders are are naive men of cloth who have lived a cocooned life caring for their flock. 

If what religious leaders say is true then it should be easy to defend their position. They can't however and they do what Lighthouse says and they flounder.

I'm puzzled why you think those in Lighthouse's list are ' coached to be good at public speaking and appealing to the masses' and religious leaders aren't! What to you think a church service is if it isn't public speaking?! 🙄

1 Peter 3:15 instructs all Christians to be prepared to defend their position, if Church leaders are unable to do so, what chance does your average Bible believing Christian have?

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The bible has more than one verse pal

Galatians 5:21
 
King James Version
 

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How is that even remotely relevant? All it takes is for one line in the Bible to show God is evil for the claim that God is 100% kind and loving is nonsense.

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How is that even remotely relevant? All it takes is for one line in the Bible to show God is evil for the claim that God is 100% kind and loving is nonsense.

 

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How is that even remotely relevant? All it takes is for one line in the Bible to show God is evil for the claim that God is 100% kind and loving is nonsense.

Are you seriously asking me to explain how a verse saying murders wont inherit gods kingdom is relevant on a thread where we've been discussing if a serial murderer can get forgiveness on death row? COme on Matthew, you're meant to have a masters degree!!!

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Are you seriously asking me to explain how a verse saying murders wont inherit gods kingdom is relevant on a thread where we've been discussing if a serial murderer can get forgiveness on death row? COme on Matthew, you're meant to have a masters degree!!!

Shall we add 'contradiction' to 'literally' and 'opinion' for words you don't understand? Because Luke says that murderers can be accepted into heaven... hence a contradiction! The Bible is riddled with hundreds of contradictions. 

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Shall we add 'contradiction' to 'literally' and 'opinion' for words you don't understand? Because Luke says that murderers can be accepted into heaven... hence a contradiction! The Bible is riddled with hundreds of contradictions. 

Shall we add the word "relevant" to the list of words you dont understand?

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Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Luke says murderers (or anyone) can be accepted into heaven if they repent. So it is you who doesn't understand relevant, because it clearly is. 🙄

It wasn't me asking why a verse about murderers was relevant in a discussion about murderers. 🤣

Edited by Turkish
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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It wasn't me asking why a verse about murderers was relevant in a discussion about murderers. 🤣

1) Do you or do you not agree Luke says repenting no matter what the sin is a way into heaven?

2) Do you agree that contradicts with the verse you quoted from Galatians?

They can't both be true... hence they contradict each other.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Bible is a selected subset of religious texts brought about by the Synods held in 393AD and the succeding few years, which created the first true version of the Catholic doctrine.There are plenty of texts and gospels that were omitted, sometimes referred to as the Apocrypha, as they didn't conform to the overall "message" that the Bishops wanted to send. The Protestant Bible differs slightly in content, particularly in the OT.

Edited by badgerx16
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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The Bible is a selected subset of religious texts brought about by the Synods held in 393AD and the succeding few years, which created the first true version of the Catholic doctrine.There are plenty of texts and gospels that were omitted, sometimes referred to as the Apocrypha, as they didn't conform to the overall "message" that the Bishops wanted to send. The Protestant Bible differs slightly in content, particularly in the OT.

steve coogan shrug GIF

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Golactico

Golactico

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) Do you or do you not agree Luke says repenting no matter what the sin is a way into heaven?

2) Do you agree that contradicts with the verse you quoted from Galatians?

They can't both be true... hence they contradict each other.

We wouldn't want this to get lost in the traffic

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Blasphemy and Duck Rape

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