Matthew Le God Posted 5 August, 2020 Share Posted 5 August, 2020 7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: The problem with this is that his proof of God is Creation, and you won't accept that this is proof. The argument then tends towards becoming a perpetual motion engine. You are starting from the assumption that there is creation by an entity. Why have you done that? Are you going to start using the deeply flawed watchmaker argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 5 August, 2020 Share Posted 5 August, 2020 5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Why do you have to be so dismissive of other people's belief systems ? What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence! Same for God, Loch Ness monster, Yetti, fairies, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monster etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said: What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence! Same for God, Loch Ness monster, Yetti, fairies, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monster etc etc. Lack of evidence of the existence of something is not evidence of the lack of existence. More to the point, people can believe in what they want. It doesn't matter that you don't share that belief - you're not God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said: You are starting from the assumption that there is creation by an entity. Why have you done that? Are you going to start using the deeply flawed watchmaker argument? There you go again; the argument for God, in the eyes of a believer, does not start with an 'assumption' that there is a creator, it starts with the absolute knowledge that He ( / She ) exists. Indeed, you are part of the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said: What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence! Same for God, Loch Ness monster, Yetti, fairies, leprechauns, flying spaghetti monster etc etc. Just accept that some people do not subscribe to your views, that you may be wrong, and it is probably time to put this strand of discussion to bed because those at either end are entrenched and to try shift their positions is futile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: There you go again; the argument for God, in the eyes of a believer, does not start with an 'assumption' that there is a creator, it starts with the absolute knowledge that He ( / She ) exists. Indeed, you are part of the proof. Indeed. His assumption is that those who believe in God see him as the creator. He's also babbled on that those who believe won't take medical attention if they're ill as they apparently believe that God will sort them out. He also believe that those who pray will pray for themselves. His position is based on his assumptions, arrogance,lack of understanding, and inability to accept that people are entitled to views which differ to his. Each to their own etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 hour ago, egg said: Indeed. His assumption is that those who believe in God see him as the creator. He's also babbled on that those who believe won't take medical attention if they're ill as they apparently believe that God will sort them out. He also believe that those who pray will pray for themselves. His position is based on his assumptions, arrogance,lack of understanding, and inability to accept that people are entitled to views which differ to his. Each to their own etc. Basically this has been 43 pages of MLG unable to admit he is wrong, unable to accept anyone who has a view different to his, ignoring questions he cant answer or answering them with a question claiming the original question or reasoning is flawed along with a masterclass in lack of understanding, arrogance and piety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 He is right though, religion is just a bunch of fucked up old fairytales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 Just now, aintforever said: He is right though, religion is just a bunch of fucked up old fairytales. As someone as woke as you i'm surprised at this view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 7 minutes ago, Turkish said: As someone as woke as you i'm surprised at this view. Are you saying that if you are ant-racist you have to be religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Turkish said: Basically this has been 43 pages of MLG unable to admit he is wrong, unable to accept anyone who has a view different to his, ignoring questions he cant answer or answering them with a question claiming the original question or reasoning is flawed along with a masterclass in lack of understanding, arrogance and piety. It would have been significantly less than 43 pages if everyone else had ignored him rather than rising to his bait.... Edited 6 August, 2020 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 4 minutes ago, aintforever said: Are you saying that if you are ant-racist you have to be religious? thats not what i said is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 4 minutes ago, trousers said: It would have been significantly less than 43 pages if everyone else had ignored him rather than rising to his bait.... or swinging him a hook 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, Turkish said: or swinging him a hook 😉 Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 17 minutes ago, Turkish said: thats not what i said is it. Woke means to be alert to injustice in society, especially racism. You might want to explain what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, aintforever said: Woke means to be alert to injustice in society, especially racism. You might want to explain what you mean? I'd like to see you tell a muslim that they believe in a bunch of f*cked up fairytales. Does that help? Edited 6 August, 2020 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 hour ago, aintforever said: Woke means to be alert to injustice in society, especially racism. You might want to explain what you mean? 1 hour ago, Turkish said: I'd like to see you tell a muslim that they believe in a bunch of f*cked up fairytales. Does that help? 1) What reaction are you suggesting would happen? 2) Do you think every Muslim would react in the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 hour ago, Turkish said: Basically this has been 43 pages of MLG unable to admit he is wrong, unable to accept anyone who has a view different to his, ignoring questions he cant answer or answering them with a question claiming the original question or reasoning is flawed along with a masterclass in lack of understanding, arrogance and piety. A lot of accusations there. Some you keep making without any justificaiton. So let's try to get some...! 1) Wrong about what for example? 2) Which questions have I ignored? 3) What is wrong with not being able answer a question? 4) What is wrong with answering a question with a question? Sometimes questions aren't structurally sound and require clarification through questioning 5) What reasoning of mine is flawed? 6) What have misunderstood and how should I be understanding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 Seconds out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 3 hours ago, egg said: Lack of evidence of the existence of something is not evidence of the lack of existence. More to the point, people can believe in what they want. It doesn't matter that you don't share that belief - you're not God. 1) Your first sentence I agree with. But the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. So the rational thing to do is to withhold belief until there is evidence. 2) Your second point is a little flawed as people's beleif impact their actions and their actions impact other people and wider society. 3) 'You're not God' - what is the purpose of stating this? No, I'm not a God. Why is that relevent? You have yet to shown your assumption God exists is a valid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 4 minutes ago, trousers said: Seconds out.... We are using pre-Marquess of Queensberry rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, badgerx16 said: There you go again; the argument for God, in the eyes of a believer, does not start with an 'assumption' that there is a creator, it starts with the absolute knowledge that He ( / She ) exists. Indeed, you are part of the proof. That is circular nonsense. What is the 'absolute knowledge' based on? Using an old book to justify the same old book is circular and an irrational mess. You need external verification! Edited 6 August, 2020 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: A lot of accusations there. Some you keep making without any justificaiton. So let's try to get some...! 1) Wrong about what for example? 2) Which questions have I ignored? 3) What is wrong with not being able answer a question? 4) What is wrong with answering a question with a question? Sometimes questions aren't structurally sound and require clarification through questioning 5) What reasoning of mine is flawed? 6) What have misunderstood and how should I be understanding it? I rest me case 🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 3 hours ago, badgerx16 said: Just accept that some people do not subscribe to your views, that you may be wrong, and it is probably time to put this strand of discussion to bed because those at either end are entrenched and to try shift their positions is futile. Wrong? About what because you like others in this thread continue to mis-represent what I've said. I'll say it again... I have not said there is no God. I have said that there is no credible evidence to believe in a God. Belief should be withheld until the burden of proof of a claim has been met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, Turkish said: I rest me case 🤣🤣 You case being... you are on a wind up and make claims about what I've said that aren't based on what I've actually said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: You case being... you are on a wind up and make claims about what I've said that aren't based on what I've actually said? 17 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Basically this has been 43 pages of MLG unable to admit he is wrong, unable to accept anyone who has a view different to his, ignoring questions he cant answer or answering them with a question claiming the original question or reasoning is flawed along with a masterclass in lack of understanding, arrogance and piety. You then came back simply with a load of questions, some of which claiming your reasoning was fine but everyone else was flawed. SO you did exactly what i said you've done the whole thread. 🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: you are on a wind up By jove, it's only taken him circa 14 years but I think MLG might be onto something here..... Just wonder how many years it'll take to refrain from taking the bait now that you're on the cusp of understanding what's occuring.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 3 hours ago, egg said: 1) Indeed. His assumption is that those who believe in God see him as the creator. 2) He's also babbled on that those who believe won't take medical attention if they're ill as they apparently believe that God will sort them out. 3) He also believe that those who pray will pray for themselves. 4) His position is based on his assumptions, arrogance,lack of understanding, and inability to accept that people are entitled to views which differ to his. Each to their own etc. 1) Are you not aware of the first line of the Bible is... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Are you saying Genesis is bullshit then? 2) Are you denying that is true? I didn't say every religious person does it, just some. https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/parents-found-guilty-in-prayer-healing-death-of-2-year-old-girl/ or this... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/sick-seven-year-old-boy-dies-seth-johnson-plymouth-minnesota-parents-pray-instead-call-911-ambulance-a7512461.html Or numerous others! 🙄 3) Again, I didn't say every religious person prayed for themselves but are you really denying no-one prays for themselves? 4) You continue to state I've said things I haven't said. So it is not me with the misunderstandings... look closer to home for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, Turkish said: You then came back simply with a load of questions, some of which claiming your reasoning was fine but everyone else was flawed. SO you did exactly what i said you've done the whole thread. 🤣🤣 They were questions... not claims! 🙄 Can you not comprehend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 12 minutes ago, Turkish said: 5) What reasoning of mine is flawed? 6) What have misunderstood and how should I be understanding it? You obviously dont think your reasoning or understanding is flawed as you want people to point it out for you. Like a i said, masterclass in arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 2 minutes ago, trousers said: By jove, it's only taken him circa 14 years but I think MLG might be onto something here..... Just wonder how many years it'll take to refrain from taking the bait now that you're on the cusp of understanding what's occuring.... I've stated he @Turkish is on a wind up numerous times throughout this thread. He knows what he is doing. Sadly @egg and @whelk aren't it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 Just now, Turkish said: You obviously dont think your reasoning or understanding is flawed as you want people to point it out for you. Like a i said, masterclass in arrogance. That is not arrogance. It is asking for you to show me my mistake so if I'm wrong I can learn from it. I want to beleive as many true things and as few false things as possible. So I am more than open to change my mind if you provide a good reason for me to do so. So far you haven't however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: I've stated he @Turkish is on a wind up numerous times throughout this thread. He knows what he is doing. Sadly @egg and @whelk aren't it seems. You all wind each other up. It can be quite entertaining though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 Just now, Matthew Le God said: 1) Are you not aware of the first line of the Bible is... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Are you saying Genesis is bullshit then? 2) Are you denying that is true? I didn't say every religious person does it, just some. https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/parents-found-guilty-in-prayer-healing-death-of-2-year-old-girl/ or this... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/sick-seven-year-old-boy-dies-seth-johnson-plymouth-minnesota-parents-pray-instead-call-911-ambulance-a7512461.html Or numerous others! 🙄 3) Again, I didn't say every religious person prayed for themselves but are you really denying no-one prays for themselves? 4) You continue to state I've said things I haven't said. So it is not me with the misunderstandings... look closer to home for that. 1.You appear to believe that only Christians believe in God. I have never read the Bible, I am not a Christian. 2.There are nutters in all walks of life, seemingly on mongboards too. 3.It has been a point of yours that people who do so for selfish reasons, ie to heal, for themselves, etc. That demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. 4.I fully understand what you have said. You know it too, but are as stubborn as you are closed minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, egg said: 1.You appear to believe that only Christians believe in God. I have never read the Bible, I am not a Christian. 2.There are nutters in all walks of life, seemingly on mongboards too. 3.It has been a point of yours that people who do so for selfish reasons, ie to heal, for themselves, etc. That demonstrates your complete lack of understanding. 4.I fully understand what you have said. You know it too, but are as stubborn as you are closed minded. 1) At no point did I claim every religious person is a Christian. But most religious people on the planet are in religions that have a creator God at the heart of them. 2) You seemed to be suggesting that I was wrong to say people did pray for children to get better and then those children died. I've shown they do. 3) Again you seemed to be saying that no-one prayed for themselves. They clearly do, so what is my 'complete lack of understanding'? 4) You do not 'fully understand what I've said' as time after time you show that you haven't and instead have twisted my words. The last few posts of yours highlight that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 39 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: That is circular nonsense. What is the 'absolute knowledge' based on? Using an old book to justify the same old book is circular and an irrational mess. You need external verification! Yet again; you may think that the Bible is a lot of old fairytales, and proof of nothing, somebdy else may think it is the the unadulterated word of God, and that it provides absolute proof of their deity's existence. Each of you is entitled to your opinion, you are each entitled to view the other as wrong, but neither of you will ever be able to prove that the other is wrong. In the opinion of the Believer, your request for 'external verification' is satisfied simply by opening your eyes and ears and wondering at God's creation all around you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Wrong? About what because you like others in this thread continue to mis-represent what I've said. I'll say it again... I have not said there is no God. I have said that there is no credible evidence to believe in a God. Belief should be withheld until the burden of proof of a claim has been met. Once the claim has been demonstrably proven then belief becomes knowledge. belief /bɪˈliːf/ noun an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. 'his belief in extraterrestrial life' trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something). 'a belief in democratic politics' synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence, freedom from doubt, optimism, hopefulness, hope Edited 6 August, 2020 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 2 hours ago, Turkish said: I'd like to see you tell a muslim that they believe in a bunch of f*cked up fairytales. Does that help? What's that got to do with racism? Muslims can be any any colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said: I've stated he @Turkish is on a wind up numerous times throughout this thread. He knows what he is doing. Sadly @egg and @whelk aren't it seems. Laughable you think you know anything about people or have any insight into my motives or beliefs Quite apparent you are extremely odd character. Demonstrated by calling me to this thread....yet again. A good therapist no doubt could enlighten on what ‘need’ you get from droning on and generally being such repetitive bore with huge insecurities looking for some validation that he is clever. It is not interesting debate or sparring when you post, just dull. oh and gifs indicate emotionally stunted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 47 minutes ago, whelk said: Laughable you think you know anything about people or have any insight into my motives or beliefs Quite apparent you are extremely odd character. Demonstrated by calling me to this thread....yet again. A good therapist no doubt could enlighten on what ‘need’ you get from droning on and generally being such repetitive bore with huge insecurities looking for some validation that he is clever. It is not interesting debate or sparring when you post, just dull. oh and gifs indicate emotionally stunted too. It's more simple than that. He's just autistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: It's more simple than that. He's just autistic. He won't be the only one on here, and it doesn't necessarly excuse his attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, badgerx16 said: He won't be the only one on here, and it doesn't necessarly excuse his attitude. I k ow it doesn't excuse it but its pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 4 hours ago, aintforever said: What's that got to do with racism? Muslims can be any any colour. Who is making it about race? only you, as usual 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 5 hours ago, Matthew Le God said: That is not arrogance. It is asking for you to show me my mistake so if I'm wrong I can learn from it. I want to beleive as many true things and as few false things as possible. So I am more than open to change my mind if you provide a good reason for me to do so. So far you haven't however. You repeatedly insist everyone elses reasoning is flawed but yours isn't. When you think the issue is everyone else, it probably isnt pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, Turkish said: You repeatedly insist everyone elses reasoning is flawed but yours isn't. When you think the issue is everyone else, it probably isnt pal Yet again... I am not claiming God doesn't exist 🙄 I don't know how many more times I can say this to you before in sinks in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Yet again... I am not claiming God doesn't exist 🙄 I don't know how many more times I can say this to you before in sinks in! Well i guess you must think there is something there considering you celebrate the birth of his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Yet again... I am not claiming God doesn't exist 🙄 But you persistently diss people who believe He does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 7 minutes ago, Turkish said: Well i guess you must think there is something there considering you celebrate the birth of his son. I'm not going to bother biting on this particular hook for the 8th time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: But you persistently diss people who believe He does. Do you agree there is difference between saying...? a) X does not exist b) I don't believe X has met it's burden of proof Constantly throughout this thread people claim I've said a) but I haven't. I say b) and it is very different from a). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 August, 2020 Share Posted 6 August, 2020 12 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Do you agree there is difference between saying...? a) X does not exist b) I don't believe X has met it's burden of proof Constantly throughout this thread people claim I've said a) but I haven't. I say b) and it is very different from a). Who was responsible for the innocent killing of thousands of none jewish children then if it wasn't god, like you claimed it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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