Matthew Le God Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 I understand it perfectly well. The Jews are Gods chosen people, yes? I’m not really asking you, it’s a rhetorical question. And who are the slaves? His people, read Exodus. Who are set to receive an almighty beating at the end of the age? Yep, his chosen people. Read revelation. So when you’re talking out of your hairy 1 as usual you might actually wanna try understand what exactly He’s really doing, but you won’t because of your flat out hatred towards Him. When I talked about God endorsing slavery I was not talking about that. I was talking about the Bible outlining the rules on who God allows you to own as a slave, what you can do to them, how long you can own them for etc etc. It appears you have been brainwashed to ignore that part of the Bible! For example please explain Exodus 21: 20-21 and why a kind and loving God thinks it is ok to own and beat a slave as long as they don't die within 2 days. Tell me something, do you honestly believe we’re here by pure accident/fluke? Seriously? Like the perfect distance from the sun etc with just the right amount of atmosphere etc for life to exist. Because if you do think it’s a fluke then it’s the equivalent of a tornado hitting a junk yard and building a jumbo jet. This is a nonsense argument that is fundamentally flawed. Low odds of something happening does not mean it can't happen. The odds of winning the lottery are low, it doesn't mean people don't win it. If the distance from the sun, atmosphere etc you talk about was different... how do you know that wouldn't allow for the conditions for a different form of life? The tornado jumbo jet analogy does not work, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of planetary physics and how evolution works. Which is typical of a self righteous, me first group of idiots. Believing with no good evidence that in a universe of trillions of planets you are part of God special tribe on one tiny planet is just bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Yet again... I'll ask... but I have little hope of getting an answer... what do you think I have done that I am opposed to? Because if your answer is celebrate Jesus' birth... you are wrong. I visited family, ate a roast turkey and gave presents. Jesus was not involved in any way. You celebrated a religious festival yet you are vehemently opposed to religion. Just because you keep denying it it doesn’t make it untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 ........you are wrong. I visited family, ate a roast turkey and gave presents. Jesus was not involved in any way. I think the point is to question why, for instance, you didn't choose to do so on November 23rd, or May 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 You celebrated a religious festival yet you are vehemently opposed to religion. Just because you keep denying it it doesn’t make it untrue. Yet again you failed to answer the question! How is it celebrated if there is no mention of God or Jesus, no visit to church, no prayer etc etc. That is not celebrating it. I keep asking you this... and you keep ignoring the question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Yet again you failed to answer the question! How is it celebrated if there is no mention of God or Jesus, no visit to church, no prayer etc etc. That is not celebrating it. I keep asking you this... and you keep ignoring the question! I have answered it, it’s a religious festival which you took part in. Just because you don’t like the answer it doesn’t mean it’s untrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 I think the point is to question why, for instance, you didn't choose to do so on November 23rd, or May 11th. Just because he didn't choose either of those dates doesn't mean he chose 25th December for religious reasons. (And, yes, I'm aware there's a wind-up going on and that MLG is blissfully unaware... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 This needs to be moved to the lounge. Not Saints related, just tedious bickering from the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 But the Bible is a collection of selected texts; the Old Testament is a group of volumes originating in an orally transmited history, eventually written down in an arcane language, and subsequently serially translated through Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin. The New Testament is a selected group of stories, taken from a far wider canon of works, put together through a series of meetings of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, to satisfy the particular views of the heads of those Churches at those times. ( Hence why the NT in particular rewrites Mary Magdalene ). Subsequent translation from Latin to English, so the Henry VIII could set himself up as the head of a new Church, and get both a divorce and the wealth of the Catholic monastries, means that you have to ask, which version of The Bible is, in fact the Word ? The words of Jesus are a fantastic guide on how to live one's life, even if you don't believe it's historically accurate. The rest of the bible is basically a lot of bollocks written by sheep herders, with some wise words and some interesting history in between. I find it amusing that atheists point out absurdities in the bible to prove that God doesn't exist, and that believers do the same to prove God does exist. Agnostics are the only ones being logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 The words of Jesus are a fantastic guide on how to live one's life No they aren't! A few (of many) horrific examples of the nonsense of Jesus... Jesus say beating slaves is ok... (Luke 12:47) Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (Mark 7:9) I find it amusing that atheists point out absurdities in the bible to prove that God doesn't exist, and that believers do the same to prove God does exist. Agnostics are the only ones being logical. What definitions of those words are you using? Atheism is not the absolute certainty Gods don't exist. I don't claim Gods don't exist... I just don't think any God claim has met its burden of proof. The two are very different things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 I have answered it, it’s a religious festival which you took part in. Just because you don’t like the answer it doesn’t mean it’s untrue Going to my parent's house, eating a turkey roast and giving presents to people is not in any way religious. It is bizarre you think it is If Christians can impose their nonsense on the 25th December when it used to be the date of older traditions that pre-date Christainity... then why can't other people do the same and use the 25th December for non religious things. You logic is fundamentally flawed. It is not celebrating a religious festival if no prayer, ceremony or mention of God and/or Jesus is used. You are ignoring all this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Going to my parent's house, eating a turkey roast and giving presents to people is not in any way religious. It is bizarre you think it is If Christians can impose their nonsense on the 25th December when it used to be the date of older traditions that pre-date Christainity... then why can't other people do the same and use the 25th December for non religious things. You logic is fundamentally flawed. It is not celebrating a religious festival if no prayer, ceremony or mention of God and/or Jesus is used. You are ignoring all this! Calm down you need help are you ok? Concerned about your health you sure have issues! I am sure your GP can get you some counselling. Did your parents get married in church? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Did your parents get married in church? Yes, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 No they aren't! A few (of many) horrific examples of the nonsense of Jesus... Jesus say beating slaves is ok... (Luke 12:47) Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (Mark 7:9) What definitions of those words are you using? I doubt someone who said "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me" advocated beating slaves. Unless he was a masochist. I'm no scripture expert and don't want to get into a boring discussion about true meanings, but I presume such passages were some sort of parable, lost in translation over the centuries, or just made up by the sheep herder who wrote it. Atheism is not the absolute certainty Gods don't exist. I don't claim Gods don't exist... I just don't think any God claim has met its burden of proof. The two are very different things! So you're agnostic. Got it. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Going to my parent's house, eating a turkey roast and giving presents to people is not in any way religious. It is bizarre you think it is If Christians can impose their nonsense on the 25th December when it used to be the date of older traditions that pre-date Christainity... then why can't other people do the same and use the 25th December for non religious things. You logic is fundamentally flawed. It is not celebrating a religious festival if no prayer, ceremony or mention of God and/or Jesus is used. You are ignoring all this! It’s celebrating a festival, a religious festival, a Christian festival, even its name is a clue, Christ-mas. Christ the son of god, the basis of Christianity. If you can’t understand what you’ve done I fear for you. You even wished someone a merry Christmas on this forum, so just by saying that it has a religious connotations. It really is strange you can’t recognize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 So you're agnostic. Got it. Nothing wrong with that. A champagne agnostic, he celebrates religious festivals don’t forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 No they aren't! A few (of many) horrific examples of the nonsense of Jesus... Jesus say beating slaves is ok... (Luke 12:47) Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. (Mark 7:9) What definitions of those words are you using? Atheism is not the absolute certainty Gods don't exist. I don't claim Gods don't exist... I just don't think any God claim has met its burden of proof. The two are very different things! Ok, I’m getting really quite bored of you missing the point. Anyway. Luke 12:47 is referring directly to the end of the church age and his return. Meaning if you’re not expecting his return you’ll be going through the tribulation. By the way, 28% of the bible is devoted to prophecy and warning of what’s to come (or has already happened). But you don’t believe it so it’s irrelevant to you. Here is Mark 7:9. Where exactly does he say about killing children? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7-9&version=NIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Ok, I’m getting really quite bored of you missing the point. Anyway. Luke 12:47 is referring directly to the end of the church age and his return. Meaning if you’re not expecting his return you’ll be going through the tribulation. By the way, 28% of the bible is devoted to prophecy and warning of what’s to come (or has already happened). But you don’t believe it so it’s irrelevant to you. Here is Mark 7:9. Where exactly does he say about killing children? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7-9&version=NIV You have to remember it’s been a difficult few days for Matthew. Outed as a hypocrite, shown up for his lack of understanding of the scriptures and proven to come from a a religious family despite absolute denials in the validity of any of it. It’s been tough, he should be glad we are there to educate him. I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake at Easter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekelund Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Oh ffs zzz. Threads like these are the reason I go straight to the most recent post and work backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 You have to remember it’s been a difficult few days for Matthew. Outed as a hypocrite, shown up for his lack of understanding of the scriptures and proven to come from a a religious family despite absolute denials in the validity of any of it. It’s been tough, he should be glad we are there to educate him. I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake at Easter. I genuinely have no ill feelings towards the guy and wish him all the best but he appears to take things in sound bites without taking things in their full context. Easter is a whooole new ball game. To which I’d be more than happy to explain to MLG why exactly Christ had to die for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Oh ffs zzz. Threads like these are the reason I go straight to the most recent post and work backwards What exactly did you think a thread titled “Happy Christmas” would contain? I thought you’d be pleasantly surprised it just wasn’t 3 pages of Debye one saying the the same two words to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 It is highly unlikely that December 25th is actually the date of Jesus's birth, it is, however, the date of a pagan festival that the early Christian church wanted to subvert. Similarly, Easter is a floating date, and therefore not directly related to the last week of Jesus' life. Rather it again borrows a pagan concept related to phases of the moon, another festival the early church wanted to take control of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekelund Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 What exactly did you think a thread titled “Happy Christmas” would contain? I thought you’d be pleasantly surprised it just wasn’t 3 pages of Debye one saying the the same two words to each other? Some plot twist nobody saw coming whereby it was actually semi football related. You know, saints linked with roque santa cruz for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Oh ffs zzz. Threads like these are the reason I go straight to the most recent post and work backwards !raeY weN yppaH dna samtsirhC yrreM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekelund Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 December, 2019 Share Posted 28 December, 2019 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Saint Posted 29 December, 2019 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2019 !raeY weN yppaH dna samtsirhC yrreM SamtsirhC yppaH yllautca dias I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 It is highly unlikely that December 25th is actually the date of Jesus's birth We'd need some evidence he even existed as a historical figure. No contemporary accounts of him exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Easter is a whooole new ball game. To which I’d be more than happy to explain to MLG why exactly Christ had to die for us. God sacrificed himself... to himself to act as a loophole to a set of rules he created and knew would be broken. That sounds like incompetence to me! Why couldn't he just forgive without a blood sacrifice, why is he obsessed with sacrifice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 God sacrificed himself... to himself to act as a loophole to a set of rules he created and knew would be broken. That sounds like incompetence to me! Why couldn't he just forgive without a blood sacrifice, why is he obsessed with sacrifice? Why are you obsessed with this subject? Odd to say the least. This is a footy forum. Most of us have a view 1. whether or not god exists, and 2. whether the Bible is boll0cks, but most of us enjoy Christmas as a family /happy occasion regardless on our views on 1 or 2. What most of us don't do is discuss 1 or 2 on a footy forum. Whatever your point is, you've made it. Finish off your selection boxes and enjoy the Liverpool match mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 God sacrificed himself... to himself to act as a loophole to a set of rules he created and knew would be broken. That sounds like incompetence to me! Why couldn't he just forgive without a blood sacrifice, why is he obsessed with sacrifice? It’s illogical isn’t it! A bit like wishing people merry Christmas, celebrating Christmas then pretending it has no religious connotations whatsoever despite spending days talking about god, Jesus and the Bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 We'd need some evidence he even existed as a historical figure. No contemporary accounts of him exist! So thick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 We'd need some evidence he even existed as a historical figure. No contemporary accounts of him exist! So thick Explain why I'm wrong about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Explain why I'm wrong about that Did Pontus Pilate exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 It’s illogical isn’t it! A bit like wishing people merry Christmas, celebrating Christmas then pretending it has no religious connotations whatsoever despite spending days talking about god, Jesus and the Bible 1) I did not wish anyone Merry Christmas in this thread... I corrected Happy Christmas with Merry New Year to Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2) I did not celebrate Christmas... I visited family and ate food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Did Pontus Pilate exist? Contemporary evidence supporting his existence exists. Nothing contemporary for Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Contemporary evidence supporting his existence exists. Nothing contemporary for Jesus. Apart from HIS soldiers writing about him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Contemporary evidence supporting his existence exists. Nothing contemporary for Jesus. Contemporary? You realise it was 2000 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Contemporary? You realise it was 2000 years ago? Contemporary with his existence, not contemporary with 2019. Nothing exists from the time of Jesus' life, only decades later. So... nothing contemporary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Apart from HIS soldiers writing about him! Nothing exists from the time of his supposed life, it is only decades later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Contemporary with his existence, not contemporary with 2019. Nothing exists from the time of Jesus' life, only decades later. So... nothing contemporary! People like Tacititus provide evidence for lots of information on Roman history. Do you disbelieve some of what he writes but accept others? Or what do you think people who study Classics should use as their ‘evidence’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 People like Tacititus provide evidence for lots of information on Roman history. Do you disbelieve some of what he writes but accept others? Or what do you think people who study Classics should use as their ‘evidence’? He is not remotely contemporary, 83 years after the supposed life of Jesus! Plus in terms of Jesus... the extraordinary elements of the story require extraordinary evidence... an old book is not extraordinary. Anything can be written in a book, it doesn't make compelling evidence for the miraculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 He is not remotely contemporary, 83 years after the supposed life of Jesus! Plus in terms of Jesus... the extraordinary elements of the story require extraordinary evidence... an old book is not extraordinary. Anything can be written in a book, it doesn't make compelling evidence for the miraculous. On your own son https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 On your own son https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus A random Wikipedia article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 He is not remotely contemporary, 83 years after the supposed life of Jesus! Plus in terms of Jesus... the extraordinary elements of the story require extraordinary evidence... an old book is not extraordinary. Anything can be written in a book, it doesn't make compelling evidence for the miraculous. I am not saying evidence for miracles but it is a act of faith without reason on your part to think Jesus didn’t exist as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 I am not saying evidence for miracles but it is a act of faith without reason on your part to think Jesus didn’t exist as a person. 1) Faith is the excuse people give for believing in something without good evidence. 2) I don't have faith in anything. 3) I have not said Jesus did not exist... I don't think the claim has met it's burden of proof. Those are two different things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 A random Wikipedia article? Sorry should I have cited an atheist conspiracy theorist with their own narrative? I’m the one being objective here. I don’t try an convince people Julius Ceasar didn’t exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 A random Wikipedia article? Fella, he could stand in front of you and show you the wounds and you'd still say he's a fake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Fella, he could stand in front of you and show you the wounds and you'd still say he's a fake A man with wounds in his hands, is not strong evidence the man in front of you is Jesus. You have a very low bar on the level evidence you need to believe something! Such low bars of acceptance is what leads to brainwashing, indoctrination and gullibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 Sorry should I have cited an atheist conspiracy theorist with their own narrative? I’m the one being objective here. I don’t try an convince people Julius Ceasar didn’t exist. I have not said Jesus did not exist... I don't think the claim has met it's burden of proof. Those are two different things! There is a huge wealth of evidence to support the existence of Julius Ceasar. There is nothing to gain from lying about his existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 December, 2019 Share Posted 29 December, 2019 I have not said Jesus did not exist... I don't think the claim has met it's burden of proof. Those are two different things! There is a huge wealth of evidence to support the existence of Julius Ceasar. There is nothing to gain from lying about his existence. It shows a narrow mind though questioning accepted sources that we trust for other information. You don’t have to an ardent Muslim to accept Mohammed lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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