Turkish Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 If your god is all knowing then he knows what it would take for non believers to believe in him. Yet he decides not to provide that level of evidence. That is the action of an inept and incompetent deity... or more likely one that doesn't exist and is a man made creation used to explain what at the time was unexplained. He probably does it so people like you dont believe in him to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Is your wife a practising muslim, or simply from a muslim background and doesnt believe/ hates it? No agenda, just interested.She's not practising. Her mum was English and she wasn't raised as a Muslim. Within the family there are certain expectations though like her father was quite strict when she was younger by western standards but very Liberal by traditional Muslim standards. That may be a cultural thing rather than religious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 He probably does it so people like you dont believe in him to be fair. Why would he not want some of his creations not to believe in him? Instead his incompetence has led to humans believing in thousands of different Gods. He is clearly inept at being a god to allow this to happen. If he were really all powerful he could simply prove to everyone he existed. This is simple to explain... thousands of gods man made by thousands of humans. They are contradictory so they can't all be right... but they can all be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Why would he not want some of his creations not to believe in him? Instead his incompetence has led to humans believing in thousands of different Gods. He is clearly inept at being a god to allow this to happen. If he were really all powerful he could simply prove to everyone he existed. This is simple to explain... thousands of gods man made by thousands of humans. They are contradictory so they can't all be right... but they can all be wrong. Because he's a kind and loving god. Imagine being stuck with you wittering on about computer games and your masters degree for eternity. It's an act of kindess and love to make sure someone like yourself is a non-believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Because he's a kind and loving god. Imagine being stuck with you wittering on about computer games and your masters degree for eternity. It's an act of kindess and love to make sure someone like yourself is a non-believer. But he apparently 'created' me. He is inept if his aim is spread his word to everyone. If he is all knowing and all powerful there should not be more than one religion... unless he is incompetent... or more likely a man man creation/non existent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 But he apparently 'created' me. He is inept if his aim is spread his word to everyone. If he is all knowing and all powerful there should not be more than one religion... unless he is incompetent... or more likely a man man creation/non existent!No his aim is to make sure he spends time in heaven with people who are worth hanging out with. He's doing a good job keeping weirdos and dullard out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 No his aim is to make sure he spends time in heaven with people who are worth hanging out with. He's doing a good job keeping weirdos and dullard out. If he didn't like weirdos and dullards... why did he create them? I'd rather not spend eternity with a deity who thinks slavery, genocide, sexism and homophobia is ok. The devil doesn't kill as many people as god does in the Bible... is the devil the good guy in the fictional story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 She's not practising. Her mum was English and she wasn't raised as a Muslim. Within the family there are certain expectations though like her father was quite strict when she was younger by western standards but very Liberal by traditional Muslim standards. That may be a cultural thing rather than religious though. Yeah its interesting - what is commonly seen as religious is actually more cultural. My gf is 3rd generation UK born Pakistani Christian origin. Parents, grandparents and even local community still have many of the behaviour expectations you'd expect from muslim background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Yes, beliefs impact her actions. Puzzling why you think beliefs don't impact on actions. The issue is how it impacts you. The answer it doesn't. It has nothing to do with you. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Yeah its interesting - what is commonly seen as religious is actually more cultural. My gf is 3rd generation UK born Pakistani Christian origin. Parents, grandparents and even local community still have many of the behaviour expectations you'd expect from muslim background.Yep. Personally I don't think her dad gives much of a toss about a lot of stuff but he very much cares what other people and the wider society might think about things. It's very important to look like you're doing the right things even if you don't really care (which tbf is how I think a lot of Asians are.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 If he didn't like weirdos and dullards... why did he create them? I'd rather not spend eternity with a deity who thinks slavery, genocide, sexism and homophobia is ok. The devil doesn't kill as many people as god does in the Bible... is the devil the good guy in the fictional story?Because it gives him something to laugh at and be kept amused by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 The issue is how it impacts you. The answer it doesn't. It has nothing to do with you. At all. The butterfly effect means it does! Even more so when politicians act on their religious beliefs, but still matters when anyone does. We are small parts of society, so if some are acting on irrational religious beliefs we are all impacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Because it gives him something to laugh at and be kept amused by. I know you are joking. But that doesn't hold up, he is supposed to be all knowing, so before he created me he knew what I'd do. So like everyone else if the Christian god exists none of us have free will as the god created us in a way that he knows the outcome so choices are not ours, he made our choices and knows what they will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 The butterfly effect means it does! Even more so when politicians act on their religious beliefs, but still matters when anyone does. We are small parts of society, so if some are acting on irrational religious beliefs we are all impacted. Stay on your point. You claim that my neighbour praying to something that she calls god impacts others. Explain in words of one syllable how it impacts a) you or b) anyone else. Give actual hypothetical examples, not waffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Stay on your point. You claim that my neighbour praying to something that she calls god impacts others. Explain in words of one syllable how it impacts a) you or b) anyone else. Give actual hypothetical examples, not waffle. Woman prays for God to heal her child from corona-virus, so doesn't take them to the hospital... child dies. There a hypothetical example as you asked! If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Woman prays for God to heal her child from corona-virus, so doesn't take them to the hospital... child dies. There a hypothetical example as you asked! If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Jeez. So think all people who pray turn into retards? Let's assume she's not an idiot who does what you suggest and us not praying for that. Let's assume that she's praying for some direction on how she can be of help to others. That may give her peace and comfort. She may be accepting all the government advice and following it. How does her praying impact you or anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Yep. Personally I don't think her dad gives much of a toss about a lot of stuff but he very much cares what other people and the wider society might think about things. It's very important to look like you're doing the right things even if you don't really care (which tbf is how I think a lot of Asians are.) Exactly that. Appearances in front of the community and acceptance is what counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 Jeez. So think all people who pray turn into retards? Let's assume she's not an idiot who does what you suggest and us not praying for that. Let's assume that she's praying for some direction on how she can be of help to others. That may give her peace and comfort. She may be accepting all the government advice and following it. How does her praying impact you or anyone else? You didn't answer the question. I'll ask it again... If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 You didn't answer the question. I'll ask it again... If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? No no no. You're not ducking this one mate. Your point is that other people's prayers per se impact on others, you included. I've given you a prayer scenario. Tell me how that impacts you or others. Or retract your point. Medicine is medicine and is needed. I don't know anyone who prays that it's a substitute for medical assistance or medicine. It seems that you have a misguided view that all those who pray do so for themselves and that prayer is the solution to every issue in life. Now back to my neighbour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 No no no. You're not ducking this one mate. Your point is that other people's prayers per se impact on others, you included. I've given you a prayer scenario. Tell me how that impacts you or others. Or retract your point. Medicine is medicine and is needed. I don't know anyone who prays that it's a substitute for medical assistance or medicine. It seems that you have a misguided view that all those who pray do so for themselves and that prayer is the solution to every issue in life. Now back to my neighbour... You asked for a hypothetical situation and I gave you one. You also ignored my question. I'll ask it for a 3rd time ... If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Why is medicine needed along with a prayer? Why give God any credit if medicine is used? Medicine is human made and doctors are human! If you have a headache and take a paracetamol and the headache goes... what cured the headache... god or the paracetamol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 March, 2020 Share Posted 23 March, 2020 You asked for a hypothetical situation and I gave you one. You also ignored my question. I'll ask it for a 3rd time ... If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Why is medicine needed along with a prayer? Why give God any credit if medicine is used? Medicine is human made and doctors are human! If you have a headache and take a paracetamol and the headache goes... what cured the headache... god or the paracetamol? You wanted a debate. You got one. You then ignore questions when you're cornered. I'll ask one last time. How are you or anyone else impacted by my neighbour praying as set out above. If the answer is you're/they're not (that is the answer by the way) then have the grace to say so. I've answered your question. Because you don't like the answer, it doesn't mean it hasn't been answered. Your other points are daft and I'm going around the houses with you. Simply though, some people pray cos it gives them some comfort and guidance. They also acknowledge that prayer won't treat coronavirus, headache, toothache or whatever. Your point comes down to your own beliefs. You seem to think that it's prayer or science, and that those who pray believe that it has to be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 You asked for a hypothetical situation and I gave you one. You also ignored my question. I'll ask it for a 3rd time ... If someone genuinely believes prayer works... why would you bother seeking medical help? Why is medicine needed along with a prayer? Why give God any credit if medicine is used? Medicine is human made and doctors are human! If you have a headache and take a paracetamol and the headache goes... what cured the headache... god or the paracetamol?Maybe God worked through the paracetamol. God channeled his divine power into the paracetamol which cured the headache. Maybe the religious person prayed for medicine to be a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Just to sum up Christianity: Started a long time ago in a small city in another country, now it's spread around the world It seems to be particularly prevalent in Italy It was late arriving in America but now that it has it seems to have taken hold very quickly and strongly. Most people have a mild case of occasional church services and prayers. A small number of mainly older people develop severe symptoms, such as disowning their gay son or picketing abortion clinics. You might think your case is mild and harmless but in helping to spread it, you're putting others at risk. It can occasionally lead to death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Just to sum up Christianity: Started a long time ago in a small city in another country, now it's spread around the world It seems to be particularly prevalent in Italy It was late arriving in America but now that it has it seems to have taken hold very quickly and strongly. Most people have a mild case of occasional church services and prayers. A small number of mainly older people develop severe symptoms, such as disowning their gay son or picketing abortion clinics. You might think your case is mild and harmless but in helping to spread it, you're putting others at risk. It can occasionally lead to death If youd said that about Islam you'd be absolutely castigated as being a racist anti-islamic w*nker. As you're saying it about christianity quite a few on here will praise your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Just to sum up Christianity: Started a long time ago in a small city in another country, now it's spread around the world It seems to be particularly prevalent in Italy It was late arriving in America but now that it has it seems to have taken hold very quickly and strongly. Most people have a mild case of occasional church services and prayers. A small number of mainly older people develop severe symptoms, such as disowning their gay son or picketing abortion clinics. You might think your case is mild and harmless but in helping to spread it, you're putting others at risk. It can occasionally lead to death sounds like you’re pro-abortion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Every time this discussion crops up, I always have a little chuckle at MLG’s username. And his spectrum tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 If youd said that about Islam you'd be absolutely castigated as being a racist anti-islamic w*nker. As you're saying it about christianity quite a few on here will praise your view. I was frequently accused of being Islamaphobic by Verbal (no idea where he ended up). Basically I'm not opposed to belief but I am opposed to organised religion. sounds like you’re pro-abortion There's no such thing as pro-abortion, only pro-choice. If you believe terminating a fetus is a sin against God, then don't have an abortion and I wont tell you you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 There's no such thing as pro-abortion, only pro-choice. If you believe terminating a fetus is a sin against God, then don't have an abortion and I wont tell you you're wrong. It’s exactly the same thing, but with an “acceptable” name. I’ve never been anything but pro life, long before I became a Christian. What about the choice of the unborn child? Seems a little 1 sided considering only 1 person gets a say in the matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 It’s exactly the same thing, but with an “acceptable” name. I’ve never been anything but pro life, long before I became a Christian. What about the choice of the unborn child? Seems a little 1 sided considering only 1 person gets a say in the matter It's not an acceptable name, it's a fundamental difference. The pro-choice campaigners aren't asking to terminate 100% of their pregnancies, just the ones where they feel it wouldn't be right bringing a baby into the world. The unborn child is not a child, it's a fetus. That's a medical fact. It's brain is undeveloped, it cannot sense the world around it, it is not capable of conscious thought and therefore choice. Whenever somebody puts a debate to me like this, I always ask how I would feel if I was the 'victim'. In this case I would never even have been aware of my own existence, so the suffering experienced would be zero. There's no point really in debating this as it's been going on for decades and neither side is willing to concede. The fact of the matter is that if a women feels she needs an abortion, within a set time parameter, that's her choice. You have no right telling her what to do with her body, based on religious views or otherwise. If you have medical evidence that the fetus suffers in some way, that's a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Maybe God worked through the paracetamol. God channeled his divine power into the paracetamol which cured the headache. Maybe the religious person prayed for medicine to be a success. Maybe god invented paracetamol as a gift to the wider world so that he didn't need to answer everyones individual prayers. I guess he views them like spam email and has to contend with lots of fake requests and time wasters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 I was frequently accused of being Islamaphobic by Verbal (no idea where he ended up). Basically I'm not opposed to belief but I am opposed to organised religion. It must be pretty serious as his wife banned him from posting on here but even that didn't stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Every time this discussion crops up, I always have a little chuckle at MLG’s username. And his spectrum tendencies.No doubt. It's entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 I was frequently accused of being Islamaphobic by Verbal (no idea where he ended up). Basically I'm not opposed to belief but I am opposed to organised religion. There's no such thing as pro-abortion, only pro-choice. If you believe terminating a fetus is a sin against God, then don't have an abortion and I wont tell you you're wrong.Abortion is a difficult one. I was pretty ambivalent on it until I had my own children then it became much harder for me to condone it. At the very least it should be a very difficult and considered decision with at least a certain amount of social stigma attached - though stigma may be the wrong word and a bit strong. Basically I find the celebration of the whole thing particularly among a certain section in America to be distasteful in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Every time this discussion crops up, I always have a little chuckle at MLG’s username. Surely you are aware it concerns Matthew Le Tissier's nickname, he is my God and has the bonus of being demonstrable to manifest in reality. Unlike the fictional works of the man written Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 It’s exactly the same thing, but with an “acceptable” name. I’ve never been anything but pro life, long before I became a Christian. What about the choice of the unborn child? Seems a little 1 sided considering only 1 person gets a say in the matter 1) So if you were a woman and were told if you didn't have an abortion there is a good chance you would die... you would still refuse? 2) The God of the Bible states that if a woman is raped then the man should marry his victim and bring up the child. Do you think that is the view of a good God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Surely you are aware it concerns Matthew Le Tissier's nickname, he is my God and has the bonus of being demonstrable to manifest in reality. Unlike the fictional works of the man written Bible. Im surprised at that. No doubt he'd have scored a 19 or 20 for Shooting, skill and technique but his workrate, fitness, pace statistics would drag him down, think you need to check the database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Im surprised at that. No doubt he'd have scored a 19 or 20 for Shooting, skill and technique but his workrate, fitness, pace statistics would drag him down, think you need to check the database. He retired before I started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 He retired before I started. what do you make about his comments in the last couple of weeks about coronavirus and flu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 1) So if you were a woman and were told if you didn't have an abortion there is a good chance you would die... you would still refuse? 2) The God of the Bible states that if a woman is raped then the man should marry his victim and bring up the child. Do you think that is the view of a good God? There absolutely are mitigating circumstances and the woman’s life must not be at risk. Other than that, the child should live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 what do you make about his comments in the last couple of weeks about coronavirus and flu? I don't agree with him. This is significantly worse than flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 There absolutely are mitigating circumstances and the woman’s life must not be at risk. Other than that, the child should live. 1) When does it become a child? 2) Should victims of rape be forced to have the children? 3) You also missed out this one... The God of the Bible states that if a woman is raped then the man should marry his victim and bring up the child. Do you think that is the view of a good God? 4) Your God is the biggest abortionist of them all, fetuses die naturally all the time without abortions and God set up the system where that can happen. So what makes you think he is against it? He is the biggest abortionist of all fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 There absolutely are mitigating circumstances and the woman’s life must not be at risk. Other than that, the child should live. So you've made the decision that the life of a 'child' is less important that that of the mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 So you've made the decision that the life of a 'child' is less important that that of the mother?That's the clearly the case if the child can't survive without the mother. Presumably if the mother dies then the inborn child will as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 That's the clearly the case if the child can't survive without the mother. Presumably if the mother dies then the inborn child will as well. That isn't true, lots of cases of infants surviving the death of their mothers in child birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 So you've made the decision that the life of a 'child' is less important that that of the mother? Considering I’m almost entirely against abortion, obviously not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 That isn't true, lots of cases of infants surviving the death of their mothers in child birth.Then ask the mother to decide. Maybe she'd prefer the baby lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 I don't agree with him. This is significantly worse than flu. Interesting comment. So you can have a god, yet not agree with all they say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Considering I’m almost entirely against abortion, obviously not! Is your God 'entirely' or 'almost enturely' against abortion. If it is not the sane as you, why are you of not the same view as your god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Interesting comment. So you can have a god, yet not agree with all they say? Because as you well know, I don't mean he is a literal God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 24 March, 2020 Share Posted 24 March, 2020 Is your God 'entirely' or 'almost enturely' against abortion. If it is not the sane as you, why are you of not the same view as your god. Wow, you really are getting desperate and obsessed. I haven’t mentioned God at all with regards to my faith, other than I didn't agree with it even before I became a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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