Raging Bull Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 We live in a secular country. There is no compulsion to follow a religion of any sort, but there is freedom to follow whichever one you might choose to do. You mean free will, lovingly given to us by a divine creator?
badgerx16 Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 (edited) ...our calendar is based on the Christian colander, There are a few holes in your logic. And yes, we are living in a secular country. ( And as a Republican I couldn't give a scoobies about the status of the Queen ). Christmas Day has only been a bank holiday since the 1970's, I didn't get married in a church yet am still recognised as legitimately as somebody who was, and most people are not buried on church grounds. Edited 31 December, 2019 by badgerx16
badgerx16 Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 You mean free will, lovingly given to us by a divine creator? You are quite at liberty to believe that, and I would never dream of ridiculing you for it.
shurlock Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 MLG, Raging Bull and Turkish - take a bow gents. A late but strong bid for mboard thread of the decade.
Matthew Le God Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 You mean free will, lovingly given to us by a divine creator? An all knowing creator giving free will is an oxymoron. If the creator knows the future and creates people then the way he created them already has a pre-known path. So free will is not possible. We've been through this before and you failed to give a rebuttal.
Raging Bull Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 An all knowing creator giving free will is an oxymoron. If the creator knows the future and creates people then the way he created them already has a pre-known path. So free will is not possible. We've been through this before and you failed to give a rebuttal. You don’t half talk out of your hair 1. When have I said there’s a Pre ordained path? Free will means you choose! Anyway what exactly do you think happened for us to be hear?
Matthew Le God Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 You don’t half talk out of your hair 1. When have I said there’s a Pre ordained path? Free will means you choose! Anyway what exactly do you think happened for us to be hear? We can't choose if God created us and knows every decision we will make before we have made it. If he created us he set the conditions for what will happen and he knows what will happen so free will is logically impossible under those circumstances. As for "what happened for us to be here"... Big bang 14 billion years ago, earth former 4 billion years ago, love started 600m years ago, humans evolved a couple of million years ago. That is the best understanding of the available evidence. Do you disagree with any of that? If so... Why?
badgerx16 Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 An all knowing creator giving free will is an oxymoron. If the creator knows the future and creates people then the way he created them already has a pre-known path. So free will is not possible. We've been through this before and you failed to give a rebuttal. If the creator is all knowing, then He caused this thread to be started, and guided you to make all of your posts.
badgerx16 Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 We can't choose if God created us and knows every decision we will make before we have made it. If he created us he set the conditions for what will happen and he knows what will happen so free will is logically impossible under those circumstances. As for "what happened for us to be here"... Big bang 14 billion years ago, earth former 4 billion years ago, love started 600m years ago, humans evolved a couple of million years ago. That is the best understanding of the available evidence. Do you disagree with any of that? If so... Why?
Raging Bull Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 We can't choose if God created us and knows every decision we will make before we have made it. If he created us he set the conditions for what will happen and he knows what will happen so free will is logically impossible under those circumstances. As for "what happened for us to be here"... Big bang 14 billion years ago, earth former 4 billion years ago, love started 600m years ago, humans evolved a couple of million years ago. That is the best understanding of the available evidence. Do you disagree with any of that? If so... Why? Best understanding of available evidence? So nothing concrete then? And if there was a big bang, who created those parts for the big bang??? You know full well why I disagree with you. Have you not been paying attention? But in case you haven’t, it’s the same creator that would’ve made the parts for your Big Bang! Please tell me though, when did I say there was a pre ordained path?
miserableoldgit Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 It is generally accepted that there are millions of star systems like ours in the Universe. Countless planets that have the conditions to sustain life, but God/Jesus, Mohammed etc who oversee everything, all come from the Middle East on our planet? Makes sense.... Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Turkish Posted 31 December, 2019 Posted 31 December, 2019 MLG, Raging Bull and Turkish - take a bow gents. A late but strong bid for mboard thread of the decade. This one is up there pal https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?27232-Is-Life-Really-All-That&highlight=life#.XgvS5S_LehA
Matthew Le God Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 Best understanding of available evidence? So nothing concrete then? 1) That is how science works! Theories based on the best available evidence. How could that possible be a problem! Religion on the other hand makes proclamations based on no evidence. Which is more reliable... basing things on the best evidence... or on no evidence? And if there was a big bang, who created those parts for the big bang??? 2) Why have you come from a starting point that it needs a 'who'? That isn't a sound methodology as you are presuming it is a who before looking at the evidence. The question to ask is 'how'... not 'who'! And the answer to that is... we don't know. Nothing wrong with admitting you don't know... religion however claims an answer despite no good evidence. You know full well why I disagree with you. Have you not been paying attention? But in case you haven’t, it’s the same creator that would’ve made the parts for your Big Bang! 3) Yes, I know why, it is because... a) you have been indoctrinated and brainwashed b) you have a limited to non existent understanding of the scientific method Please tell me though, when did I say there was a pre ordained path? 4) This is either the 3rd or 4th time I've tried explaining this one two you. I don't know how I can make it any simpler to understand! - If God is 'all knowing' then he knows everything you will do in the future... do you agree with that? - We presume for the sake of argument God set the conditions for the universe and made you Those two things conflict logically to prevent free will. As if God created everything and knows how it will turn out then the manner in which he decided your creation has been been predetermined and free will is logically impossible under those conditions. If you can't grasp that then I really don't know how else you will ever grasp it!
Weston Super Saint Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 1) Those two things conflict logically to prevent free will. As if God created everything and knows how it will turn out then the manner in which he decided your creation has been been predetermined and free will is logically impossible under those conditions. If you can't grasp that then I really don't know how else you will ever grasp it! Not to mention 'God's will' apparently plays a part in everything - kid dies from cancer, God's will, volcano erupts killing thousands, God's will. Logically there can be no 'free will' under these conditions....
sadoldgit Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 Our queen is also the head of the Church of England, we have 4 bank holidays a year based around Christian festivals, our calendar is based on the Christian colander, people get married and buried in church’s.no, it’s not a Christian country. They are based around Pagan ceremonies that have been hijacked by Christian doctrine. I have been to several wedding in the last 12 months, only one was in a church and neither the bride nor groom were believers. Most were in barns. I got married on a beach the first time and in a barn the lady time. I haven’t been to a burial for ages. Mostly they are cremations with the ashes spread elsewhere. Most of the services attended have been humanist. Television used to feature church programmes but you would be hard pressed to find anything remotely religious on tv now. I can take to to a number of homes that used to be chapels. Our local church shares its vicar with 6 others and the services are done on a rota basis as the congregations are so small. It may technically be a Christian country but let’s not pretend that the church plays an important part in our lives anymore. When it does it is just a community thing rather than a religious thing.
Jonnyboy Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 Our queen is also the head of the Church of England, we have 4 bank holidays a year based around Christian festivals, our calendar is based on the Christian colander, people get married and buried in church’s.no, it’s not a Christian country. Is the Christian Colander like Russell's Teapot?
badgerx16 Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 Is the Christian Colander like Russell's Teapot? It's where the Flying Spaghetti Monster gets drained.
Matthew Le God Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Weston Super Saint Posted 1 January, 2020 Posted 1 January, 2020 If so, then my prophecy (which you can all bow down and pray to me when it comes true) is that one day Saints will win at home, they will also win away from home and will have score draws both at home and away - obviously in true prophecy style I'm not at liberty to give dates and years that this will happen but one day it will and you will know I am the one true supreme being Boom! Get those prayer mats on order fellas
Raging Bull Posted 3 January, 2020 Posted 3 January, 2020 Nope, Genius 5:4, Adam had more sons and daughters
hypochondriac Posted 3 January, 2020 Posted 3 January, 2020 Nope, Genius 5:4, Adam had more sons and daughtersIncest. Gross.
Weston Super Saint Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Nope, Genius 5:4, Adam had more sons and daughters Genius?
scotty Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Why do it on the 25th of December then? Why not do it on the 28th, 30th or an other day of the year? You are Roy Wood and I claim my £5.
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 They are based around Pagan ceremonies that have been hijacked by Christian doctrine. I have been to several wedding in the last 12 months, only one was in a church and neither the bride nor groom were believers. Most were in barns. I got married on a beach the first time and in a barn the lady time. I haven’t been to a burial for ages. Mostly they are cremations with the ashes spread elsewhere. Most of the services attended have been humanist. Television used to feature church programmes but you would be hard pressed to find anything remotely religious on tv now. I can take to to a number of homes that used to be chapels. Our local church shares its vicar with 6 others and the services are done on a rota basis as the congregations are so small. It may technically be a Christian country but let’s not pretend that the church plays an important part in our lives anymore. When it does it is just a community thing rather than a religious thing. So the first one wasn't a lady (not that I have a problem with that)?
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 (edited) Our queen is also the head of the Church of England, we have 4 bank holidays a year based around Christian festivals, our calendar is based on the Christian colander, people get married and buried in church’s.no, it’s not a Christian country. Not that anyone had any choice in the first three. Also if my boss said I could have three days off over Eid and would pay me £1,000 'Islamic bonus', I'd go along with it TBH. Edited 4 January, 2020 by Lighthouse
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Not that anyone had any choice in the first three. Also if my boss said I could have three days off over Eid and would pay me £1,000 'Islamic bonus', I'd go along with it TBH. Why doesn’t he? After all people claim we aren’t a Christian country.
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Why doesn’t he? After all people claim we aren’t a Christian country. I already take Buddhist new year, Jewish Halloween and Sikh pancake day off, he thinks I'm taking the p*ss.
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 I already take Buddhist new year, Jewish Halloween and Sikh pancake day off, he thinks I'm taking the p*ss. No ramadan?
Batman Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 No ramadan? Disgraceful discrimination going on here!
sadoldgit Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 So the first one wasn't a lady (not that I have a problem with that)? Lady boy
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Disgraceful discrimination going on here! Racism always outs itself eventually.
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Racism always outs itself eventually. You are confusing religion and race. You choose your religion, you can't choose your race.
egg Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 You are confusing religion and race. You choose your religion, you can't choose your race. Not necessarily. Many people are pushed into a religion at a young age and before they can decide for themselves.
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Not necessarily. Many people are pushed into a religion at a young age and before they can decide for themselves. It is still a choice. At any point you can switch between a religion to another religion or to no religion. You can't switch your race.
Batman Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 It is still a choice. At any point you can switch between a religion to another religion or to no religion. You can't switch your race. live in downtown Tehran and try it!
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 live in downtown Tehran and try it! The Iranian government don't a have a police force for your thoughts. It is a choice what religion you believe in... your race is not a choice.
Batman Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 The Iranian government don't a have a police force for your thoughts. It is a choice what religion you believe in... your race is not a choice. does not work in places like that, they kind of kill you if you converted to Judaism for example.
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 does not work in places like that, they kind of kill you if you converted to Judaism for example. Well that is absolute nonsense! There is a large number of synagogues in Tehran!
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 that is not what I said, was it.... As I said before... they don't have mind police. If you converted to Judaism and didn't tell anyone you'd still have made the choice and converted. No-one would know. I'm guessing you agree you can't change your race? But someone's religion is a choice in their mind, it doesn't need to be a public acknowledgement of what religion you believe is true. So do you think it is impossible for anyone no matter where in the world to change religion?
egg Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 As I said before... they don't have mind police. If you converted to Judaism and didn't tell anyone you'd still have made the choice and converted. No-one would know. I'm guessing you agree you can't change your race? But someone's religion is a choice in their mind, it doesn't need to be a public acknowledgement of what religion you believe is true. So do you think it is impossible for anyone no matter where in the world to change religion? Your point was that people choose their religion. They do not choose it if it is imposed upon them when they are unable to freely choose, ie a child who is indoctrinated at a young age. Sure, they may subsequently abandon that religion, but if one is pedantic (as per), then it is wrong to say that religion is chosen - you are confusing the initial adoption of imposed religion with the freely chosen adoption / retention.
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Your point was that people choose their religion. They do not choose it if it is imposed upon them when they are unable to freely choose, ie a child who is indoctrinated at a young age. Sure, they may subsequently abandon that religion, but if one is pedantic (as per), then it is wrong to say that religion is chosen - you are confusing the initial adoption of imposed religion with the freely chosen adoption / retention. Regardless of the age someone is indoctrinated, there is still a personal choice if you believe it or not.
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 Regardless of the age someone is indoctrinated, there is still a personal choice if you believe it or not. I don’t choose to believe 1+1=2. I take it as a certainty because it’s a fundamental principle I’ve told to believe since birth. Religion is like this for a lot of people.
badgerx16 Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 It is still a choice. At any point you can switch between a religion to another religion or to no religion. live in downtown Tehran and try it! The Iranian government don't a have a police force for your thoughts. It is a choice what religion you believe in... your race is not a choice. does not work in places like that, they kind of kill you if you converted to Judaism for example. Well that is absolute nonsense! There is a large number of synagogues in Tehran! that is not what I said, was it.... As I said before... they don't have mind police. If you converted to Judaism and didn't tell anyone you'd still have made the choice and converted. No-one would know. I'm guessing you agree you can't change your race? But someone's religion is a choice in their mind, it doesn't need to be a public acknowledgement of what religion you believe is true. So do you think it is impossible for anyone no matter where in the world to change religion? FYI; Apostasy, conversion from Islam to another religion, is a potentially capital offence in Iran.
Lighthouse Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 No ramadan? Afraid not. I’m also part of a Methodist sect, which celebrates the birthday of every member of Bachman-Turner overdrive. Between that, Diwali and everything else, I only work five days a year.
Matthew Le God Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 I don’t choose to believe 1+1=2. I take it as a certainty because it’s a fundamental principle I’ve told to believe since birth. Religion is like this for a lot of people. 1 + 1 = 2 is demonstrable No religion has been demonstrated to be true
aintforever Posted 4 January, 2020 Posted 4 January, 2020 I don’t choose to believe 1+1=2. I take it as a certainty because it’s a fundamental principle I’ve told to believe since birth. Religion is like this for a lot of people. It’s still a choice. Granted it’s easier for some people to change than others but that doesn’t stop it being a choice.
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