Jack Stephens - Saint or Sinner?

[DT]

I think he's a bit like a cut-price David Luis. Decent in flashes, comfortable on the ball, but makes the odd clanger that means the entire defence is affected by lack of confidence in him and you lose games.

Then again, he may be our level, and just need a bit of support

[cloggy saint]

I'm just glad that most on here don't attend games because you'd destroy any confidence that any player possesses with such negativity and cruel comments.

Jack Stephens is an honest, hard working player who despite playing in a struggling team never hides and shows a fair amount of passion, qualities sadly lacking in some of his teammates. Yes, he makes mistakes but so do the rest of them. He also makes some great tackles (a brilliant one on Saturday when Watford were 3 against 1 on him and we were 1-0 down) and great blocks and interceptions. He also provides an outlet for our static midfield by bringing the ball forward and passing to our forwards, as he did at Arsenal with good effect. I just don't get all the hatred directed at the likes of JWP and Jack on here. It was the same with Targett last year - he seems to be doing ok at Villa. Is it because they have come through the academy and you'd rather we spunked millions on some Carillo or Claisse type player? I'm proud of our academy players (there were 5 on the pitch on Saturday) and long may it continue - at least the club means something to them as it does with the real fans.

 

How dare you come on here spouting positivity?? Don't you know how this place works?

[Lighthouse]

I think he's a bit like a cut-price David Luis. Decent in flashes, comfortable on the ball, but makes the odd clanger that means the entire defence is affected by lack of confidence in him and you lose games.

Then again, he may be our level, and just need a bit of support

 

Only if 'our level' is the Championship. Personally I'd say Lundekvam, Svensson and Fonte were what I'd like to be our level.

[Tom & Gerry]

Christ, one good performance in 86 appearances is hardly justification to say he a good player. Looking at his Saints career as a whole his performance that night was the exception rather than the rule!

 

So you are saying he's put in 85 bad performances. I don't think so

[VectisSaint]

Only if 'our level' is the Championship. Personally I'd say Lundekvam, Svensson and Fonte were what I'd like to be our level.

Fonte was considered a liability for a few seasons here before he finally came good in the PL. Used to make a major cockup nearly every game. Dear old Claus wasn't the greatest, but formed a stunning partnership with Killer. We've had a few top drawer CBs in the last few years, VVD, aAlderveireld in particular, these are world class players, we will be very fortunate to fin their likes again. Stephens has shown in the last few games that he is better than the other dross we have, alongside Bednarek. Yes we can arguably upgrade a bit, but we won't get much better. It's a pity we didn't sign Johnny Evans, not the best CB in the world, but he shows what experience brings, and playing alongside Bednarek or Stephens he surely would have helped their development.

[Lighthouse]

Fonte was considered a liability for a few seasons here before he finally came good in the PL. Used to make a major cockup nearly every game. Dear old Claus wasn't the greatest, but formed a stunning partnership with Killer. We've had a few top drawer CBs in the last few years, VVD, aAlderveireld in particular, these are world class players, we will be very fortunate to fin their likes again. Stephens has shown in the last few games that he is better than the other dross we have, alongside Bednarek. Yes we can arguably upgrade a bit, but we won't get much better. It's a pity we didn't sign Johnny Evans, not the best CB in the world, but he shows what experience brings, and playing alongside Bednarek or Stephens he surely would have helped their development.

 

I don't remember a few seasons. Our first season he wasn't great but then again he was playing in the middle of Fox, Kelvin and Jos for large part of it. Once Boruc got fit and we had Lovren, Wanyama and Shaw he looked a decent player for a top half team.

 

I don't think Stephens is better than any of the other options personally. Leicester aside I'd still say Yoshida is our best CB.

[Trout-Tickler]

So you are saying he's put in 85 bad performances. I don't think so

 

You're criteria for labeling him 'good' seems to be based on that one performance against Liverpool which for me sets the bar extremely low. I can remember Florin Gardos coming on for Toby Alderweireld at Old Trafford when we beat them 1-0 thanks to a Tadic goal. He played well that day but would that one performance be enough to label him good or his time with us a success? It is possible for average players to occasionally play well. As I said before that performance against Liverpool was the exception not the rule for me. Considering you rate JS as 'good' I'd be interested to know how you would describe Toby Alderweireld and Virgil Van Dijk?

[Whitey Grandad]

So you are saying he's put in 85 bad performances. I don't think so

 

It’s not so much that he plays badly through the game, rather that he regularly makes mistakes that cost us at least a goal or two.

[Whitey Grandad]

Had a good game tonight. Won some headers and didn’t make any obvious mistakes. I have seen a replay of their goal yet so I don’t know who to blame at this stage

[OttawaSaint]

Loved his emotions at the final whistle. You can’t deny that he wants to win and cares about Saints. Thought he played well tonight.

[Bob76]

Also think he played well tonight several times he read the play and put the ball in the stands rather than try and be too clever. That's all I want.

[mrfahaji]

It’s not so much that he plays badly through the game, rather that he regularly makes mistakes that cost us at least a goal or two.

 

And again tonight. Decent movement from Pukki but Stephens got distracted and ended up out of position far too easily. Whenever Stephens plays we have to score two because he is sure to do something that gives them a goal. He did ok today apart from the goal, but that’s still significant. Don’t understand why people think he is better than our other options - feels like no matter how much he messes up and costs us goals, people (including Hasenhuttl!) are willing to give him another chance. Yet other players have one bad game and that’s it, they’re finished.

[hypochondriac]

And again tonight. Decent movement from Pukki but Stephens got distracted and ended up out of position far too easily. Whenever Stephens plays we have to score two because he is sure to do something that gives them a goal. He did ok today apart from the goal, but that’s still significant. Don’t understand why people think he is better than our other options - feels like no matter how much he messes up and costs us goals, people (including Hasenhuttl!) are willing to give him another chance. Yet other players have one bad game and that’s it, they’re finished.

It's not like we have an abundance of quality at cb. Credit to Ralph for trying to get a partnership going. Who is to say that had we played another of the cbs that we wouldn't have conceded more than one?

[skintsaint]

And again tonight. Decent movement from Pukki but Stephens got distracted and ended up out of position far too easily. Whenever Stephens plays we have to score two because he is sure to do something that gives them a goal. He did ok today apart from the goal, but that’s still significant. Don’t understand why people think he is better than our other options - feels like no matter how much he messes up and costs us goals, people (including Hasenhuttl!) are willing to give him another chance. Yet other players have one bad game and that’s it, they’re finished.

 

I would call it ball watching.

[Heisenberg]

He's one of our own

[rooney]

He's one of our own

 

From Argyle.

[red&white56]

He's one of our own

 

Unfortunately so are you

[Baird of the land]

Curious when the club analyse last night's goal will they say Bednarek should have been up with Stephens or Stephens was pressing too high.

[Whitey Grandad]

Curious when the club analyse last night's goal will they say Bednarek should have been up with Stephens or Stephens was pressing too high.

 

Not for me. Stephens was back in line with the others but mentally not quite sharp enough to pick up the run of Pukki.

 

(run of Pukki sounds like a nasty medical condition)

[Batman]

He's one of our own

 

But he isn’t

[DT]

Also think he played well tonight several times he read the play and put the ball in the stands rather than try and be too clever. That's all I want.

 

Me too. Hope it gives him confidence.

[Baird of the land]

Not for me. Stephens was back in line with the others but mentally not quite sharp enough to pick up the run of Pukki.

 

(run of Pukki sounds like a nasty medical condition)

 

Stephens/Cedric were well ahead of bednarek/bertrand

[RedArmy]

Stephens/Cedric were well ahead of bednarek/bertrand

A complete sh1tshow of defending.

 

Two halves of the back 4 trying to hold a line 5 yards apart from each other. By the time Stephens realises it’s too late, and he makes minimal effort to get back and do anything about it. Cedric has to let his man roam free to try and disrupt Pukki and Stephens is still jogging back looking confused.

[mrfahaji]

I would call it ball watching.

 

Maybe, but it looked more like he lost the run of Pukki because he was sucked in to mark the Norwich player slightly deeper, rather than because he was ball watching.

[mrfahaji]

It's not like we have an abundance of quality at cb. Credit to Ralph for trying to get a partnership going. Who is to say that had we played another of the cbs that we wouldn't have conceded more than one?

 

I've seen Yoshida and Bednarek play excellently as a pair. More than once but Chelsea away last season stands out where they were the best 2 players on the pitch. I know that we don't have a great deal to choose from, but it puzzle me that Stephens doesn't have any redeeming features (he's slow, crap in the air, and has poor positioning), consistenly makes major errors and yet consistently gets given another chance. Yoshida, on the other hand, plays pretty well and then has one bad game and is dropped permanently. Also, Danso didn't look too bad in a couple of games, so how come he hasn't been given a chance? If he is worse than Stephens that what on earth did we see in him?!

[mrfahaji]

Stephens/Cedric were well ahead of bednarek/bertrand

 

What this picture doesn't show is that Stephens was originally close to Pukki, but when Pukki dropped off to the left, Stephens didn't go with him and instead wandered up the pitch.

[Professor]

After being critical of Stephens, it was great to see his passion after the result against Norwich. Couldn't ask for more commitment

[Turkish]

We all want jack Stephens to do well. He cares, he tries hard, he seems quite a good. But to be completely brutal he simply isn’t good enough as he’s proved over the last 3 years time and again.

[Tom & Gerry]

You're criteria for labeling him 'good' seems to be based on that one performance against Liverpool which for me sets the bar extremely low. I can remember Florin Gardos coming on for Toby Alderweireld at Old Trafford when we beat them 1-0 thanks to a Tadic goal. He played well that day but would that one performance be enough to label him good or his time with us a success? It is possible for average players to occasionally play well. As I said before that performance against Liverpool was the exception not the rule for me. Considering you rate JS as 'good' I'd be interested to know how you would describe Toby Alderweireld and Virgil Van Dijk?

 

I think I would rate Van Dijk as slightly better than good. I've heard him described as the best in the world and no doubt all our defenders suffer in comparison. I did qualify my description of Stephens by saying he makes terrible mistakes but perhaps you didn't get that far. If he could eliminate those he has good footballing ability. The Liverpool game was an example of the player he could be.

[Nordic Saint]

The Liverpool game was an example of the player he could be.

 

Agree. Central defender is a very difficult position and most don't reach their peak until their late 20s. He's already proved that he's better than the player the expert in his own mind, CB Fry, thought was such a great buy, Vestergaard.

[woodsaint]

Has very good games (like yesterday) in his locker. Composed on the ball but has occasional lapses of concentration which he needs to work on. Happy with him and Bednarek as 2nd and 3rd CBs (order debatable) but think they could both benefit from playing alongside a quality, mobile CB. Should be our focus in the window

[OldNick]

He is improving and no doubt gives it all. I noticed near the end of the game where he let the ball go under his foot and let them get a chance, and he had a row with himself. He wants to improve and still young enough to be good enough for us. Perhaps he might be a better holding midfielder than Hoj as he certainly an pass better and his surging run into the box to create was pretty decent

[John Boy Saint]

He is improving and no doubt gives it all. I noticed near the end of the game where he let the ball go under his foot and let them get a chance, and he had a row with himself. He wants to improve and still young enough to be good enough for us. Perhaps he might be a better holding midfielder than Hoj as he certainly an pass better and his surging run into the box to create was pretty decent

He did that against West Ham - bit like “if none of you buggers are going to move and keep letting them come onto to me and Jan - well I may as well do something about myself and off he went” - he also gave Højbjerg one hell of a roasting against West Ham for putting him and Jan under unnecessary pressure following a standard slipshod pass.

There are times when both Jack & Jans timing in the tackle is impeccable, I think their errors are often as a result of both full backs with international experience on their CVs both playing with a laissez faire attitude and not 100% application. Most centre backs like keepers ripen with age, there are the odd exception like that lad who was at Ajax and Van Dijk who are just wired up early on, many good centre backs are into their late 20s when they become notable figures in a team.

[Whitey Grandad]

He did that against West Ham - bit like “if none of you buggers are going to move and keep letting them come onto to me and Jan - well I may as well do something about myself and off he went” - he also gave Højbjerg one hell of a roasting against West Ham for putting him and Jan under unnecessary pressure following a standard slipshod pass.

There are times when both Jack & Jans timing in the tackle is impeccable, I think their errors are often as a result of both full backs with international experience on their CVs both playing with a laissez faire attitude and not 100% application. Most centre backs like keepers ripen with age, there are the odd exception like that lad who was at Ajax and Van Dijk who are just wired up early on, many good centre backs are into their late 20s when they become notable figures in a team.

 

Nothing to do with the full backs and everything to do with not picking up the loose men whilst holding their shape.

 

That run against West Ham was great until it came to his shot. Went for a throw in, didn’t it?

[John Boy Saint]

That run against West Ham was great until it came to his shot. Went for a throw in, didn’t it?

He was just getting his eye in for Saturday at Villa :p

[SKD]

He was fantastic yesterday. Dominated against Wesley (who is shocking btw) and was arguably MOTM. However, he made 2 pretty basic mistakes in the last 5 minutes which on another day would have cost us and I think that’s the issue. He’s always got a mistake a game in him.

[Whitey Grandad]

He was just getting his eye in for Saturday at Villa :p

 

 

It’s just occurred to me that he is ok with glancing headers and has scored a few goals from them. It’s meeting the ball smack in the middle of his forehead that he seems to have trouble with.

[VectisSaint]

He’s always got a mistake a game in him.

As has just about every other CB in the PL.

[Whitey Grandad]

As has just about every other CB in the PL.

 

But they don’t tend to lead to a goal conceded.

[Avenue_Saint]

Is made for an interesting defensive midfielder. Got a bit of pace, strong, tall. Can spray the ball around.

 

Just don’t want him near our goal with his “lapses”

[VectisSaint]

But they don’t tend to lead to a goal conceded.

 

They do actually.

[mrfahaji]

Is made for an interesting defensive midfielder. Got a bit of pace, strong, tall. Can spray the ball around.

 

Just don’t want him near our goal with his “lapses”

 

Are those things true? I don't think he is particularly quick across the ground (i.e. Watford's goal). Wouldn't say he is weak but also not exactly strong. Just over six foot tall is not massively tall either (plus it's not hugely important for a DM - some of the best of those are/were small). Even when it comes to spraying the ball around he is prone to giving it away carelessly. When he originally came into the team I thought his strength was in one-on-one situations, he seemed to track the man and get a tackle in well, whereas his positioning for crosses and weakness in the air was always a concern.

 

He played well against Villa though. One swallow doesn't make a summer and I would still feel more confident with Yoshida in the team (who has flaws of his own, admittedly), but if Stephens can continue to play like that and cut out his blunders then he may well prove me wrong.

[IFHP]

 

I would love to see Stephens in DM.

 

So who would you drop from our midfield to make for him then?

[Whitey Grandad]

So who would you drop from our midfield to make for him then?

 

It doesn't have to be in our midfield

[Sheaf Saint]

So who would you drop from our midfield to make for him then?

 

Hojbjerg, who has been abysmal this season.

 

Move Stephens up into the middle and play Yoshida and Bednarek at CB.

[Greenridge]

Hojbjerg, who has been abysmal this season.

 

Move Stephens up into the middle and play Yoshida and Bednarek at CB.

 

Stephens has no pace and struggles to find Jan with a 5 yard pass more often than not. Quite why anyone would want him in midfield is a mystery. Maybe trying to shoe horn him in somewhere just for the sake of it?

[John Boy Saint]

Stephens has no pace and struggles to find Jan with a 5 yard pass more often than not. Quite why anyone would want him in midfield is a mystery. Maybe trying to shoe horn him in somewhere just for the sake of it?

Gosh! Someone better get another bottle of Advocaat before Granny gets round for Christmas - seems like the finessing of her favourite tipple, a Snowball, has gone a little too well (hic)!

Edited 24 December, 2019 by John Boy Saint

[Fookwit]

I've seen Yoshida and Bednarek play excellently as a pair. More than once but Chelsea away last season stands out where they were the best 2 players on the pitch. I know that we don't have a great deal to choose from, but it puzzle me that Stephens doesn't have any redeeming features (he's slow, crap in the air, and has poor positioning), consistenly makes major errors and yet consistently gets given another chance. Yoshida, on the other hand, plays pretty well and then has one bad game and is dropped permanently. Also, Danso didn't look too bad in a couple of games, so how come he hasn't been given a chance? If he is worse than Stephens that what on earth did we see in him?!

 

Yoshida has not started a game since the 9-0 defeat. He was awful that night like most of the team. Not saying he is worse than any of our poor central defenders but definitely not better.

[VectisSaint]

Gosh! Someone better get another bottle of Advocaat before Granny gets round for Christmas - seems like the finessing of her favourite tipple, a Snowball, has gone a little too well (hic)!

 

Sometimes you wonder on here if some people can actually identify some of our players. Stephens has his faults, but not being able to pass ain't one of them.

[Whitey Grandad]

Sometimes you wonder on here if some people can actually identify some of our players. Stephens has his faults, but not being able to pass ain't one of them.

 

Oh really?

 

I can remember several underhit passes.