bangkoksaint Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 The season ticket fans (speaking as one myself) are a bit stuck. We've already paid for what we've had and what's to come. If you've already paid for it, you may as well go. I suspect non season ticket match sales are through the floor though. I think you’re right over ‘walkup’ fans. I live in the NW and having spent probably a couple of thousand this season already for my son and I to attend games I’m now drawing the line. I didn’t go yesterday but will be at Arsenal, after that who knows. I’m simply not prepared to just chuck money at the club when the reality is we are being taken for mugs and I’m sorry, whilst I may be a fan and life long supporter of Saints I’m no mug and I’m respectfully too intelligent to be taken as one by SFC. I don’t buy into the follow at all costs attitude and I don’t think it’s too much to ask to get some value for money and a bit of entertainment every now and again. Personally I don’t care if we go down, mid table in the Championship will be more interesting than what we’ve been served up over the last few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Naive to say the least- she would almost certainly have had an army of lawyers, accountants and corporate finance specialists advising her on the takeover, not just Krueger and a dim paper pusher from accounts (one of her first actions when she took over in 2014 was to hire Christian Purslow to sound out the market for offers). I also know for a fact she’s had access to top talent in the legal and finance world. Never mind there were plenty of warning signs in real time - the PL, which is as spineless and laissez-faire as they come, raised the red flag over Goa’s fitness as a prospective owner. Liebherr not only ignored the PL’s initial decision but challenged and successfully overturned it. Little was going to stop Liebherr exiting her investment - nice, reassuring sounds from Goa about taking the club forward may have been the cherry on top for Liebherr but they weren’t going to make or break the takeover once a concrete offer materialised. She certainly knows how to look after her money. When she sold off the rest of her father's MALI group of engineering companies, the one part she kept was a small, private investment bank in Switzerland, where she keeps her money. I wonder why she always wants more money? They say with a lot of very wealthy people, they feel they never have enough. Of course, because of the secrecy rules of Swiss banks, nobody will ever know how much she has. She is going to be a major stumbling block when Gao tries to sell the club because she is almost certainly going to demand a lot more money than her share is worth, which will put most buyers off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo1976 Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 She certainly knows how to look after her money. When she sold off the rest of her father's MALI group of engineering companies, the one part she kept was a small, private investment bank in Switzerland, where she keeps her money. I wonder why she always wants more money? They say with a lot of very wealthy people, they feel they never have enough. Of course, because of the secrecy rules of Swiss banks, nobody will ever know how much she has. She is going to be a major stumbling block when Gao tries to sell the club because she is almost certainly going to demand a lot more money than her share is worth, which will put most buyers off. dont worry mike ashleys supposed to be intrested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Business person doesn’t want to give money away shock horror. The personal abuse on here is appalling. How do you think her father would feel about it? We are all frustrated about the state of the team at the moment but name calling isn’t going to change anything. As for her business dealings and motivations, I always find it amazing how much people think they know when in reality they don’t have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Kat helps destroy the club you support, but calling her fat is appalling? Get some perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 I simply don't understand the personal abuse of Katarina Liebherr. She inherited various business from her father when he died, and not surprisingly she didn't want to own or run them so sold them to the highest bidder. End of. Anybody would do the same. If Markus had a grand plan he wanted continuing after his death, which I seriously doubt, he should have left the club in trust. As a billionaire I'm sure he wasn't short of decent lawyers for advice. But he didn't, he left it to his daughter along with the engineering companies and she sold them. Good for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 The season ticket fans (speaking as one myself) are a bit stuck. We've already paid for what we've had and what's to come. If you've already paid for it, you may as well go. I suspect non season ticket match sales are through the floor though.Ive never been less interested in Saints/PL/Football in all my 50+ years supporting Saints. Last season I was boosted by Ralph believing that there would be some young snips in from Germany who would transform our play into an athletic pressing team, sadly pressing has become depressing! Our midfield has been dull for seasons and Wilson/Reed have walked away with their reputations intact in wider football, a disgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Ive never been less interested in Saints/PL/Football in all my 50+ years supporting Saints. Last season I was boosted by Ralph believing that there would be some young snips in from Germany who would transform our play into an athletic pressing team, sadly pressing has become depressing! Our midfield has been dull for seasons and Wilson/Reed have walked away with their reputations intact in wider football, a disgrace Absolutely this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 I simply don't understand the personal abuse of Katarina Liebherr. She inherited various business from her father when he died, and not surprisingly she didn't want to own or run them so sold them to the highest bidder. End of. Anybody would do the same. If Markus had a grand plan he wanted continuing after his death, which I seriously doubt, he should have left the club in trust. As a billionaire I'm sure he wasn't short of decent lawyers for advice. But he didn't, he left it to his daughter along with the engineering companies and she sold them. Good for her. Why did she fight a legal battle lasting 4 years to get her hands on the club if she didn't want it? Her father died in 2010. She didn't manage to get hold of it until 2014, when one of her first actions was to force out the man her father had placed in charge of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Kat helps destroy the club you support, but calling her fat is appalling? Get some perspective I believe you are fat and appalling and are enjoying the demise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Whether true or not, I cut her slack because she never wanted to be the owner. I’m sure she’s prefer for her dad to still be alive and for her to be living anonymously like she used to. Contrast with Gao, who has gone out of his way to buy a club for selfish reasons without the first clue what he’s doing. He should be the target, not her. Let’s get some facts straight about loans too. As I recall, she converted about 30m of debt to equity. The loans she offered the club were to refinance the ones Cortese took out at eye watering interest rates. So she put her own money at risk to save the club money. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 (edited) Error Edited 10 November, 2019 by ALWAYS_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Yes calling Kat fat is appalling , if you don't understand that then there is no hope for you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Let’s get some facts straight about loans too. As I recall, she converted about 30m of debt to equity. The loans she offered the club were to refinance the ones Cortese took out at eye watering interest rates. So she put her own money at risk to save the club money. Though perhaps a desire to get full value for the debt she'd converted into equity on top of the notional value of the club was the reason the Gao deal was effectively the only one on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 November, 2019 Share Posted 10 November, 2019 Kat helps destroy the club you support, but calling her fat is appalling? Get some perspective Apart from the fact that her weight has nothing to do with anything, she has been called far worse things than just fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 11 November, 2019 Share Posted 11 November, 2019 Why did she fight a legal battle lasting 4 years to get her hands on the club if she didn't want it? Her father died in 2010. She didn't manage to get hold of it until 2014, when one of her first actions was to force out the man her father had placed in charge of the club. What you talking about ' four year legal battle'? That would be probate. I've had a two bedroom semi in Eastleigh take the best part of two years to go through probate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 10 December, 2019 Share Posted 10 December, 2019 she sent to school with nelly so probably knew exactly what sort of character gao was and took her payment straight out the club finances....which is why we have ZERO cash to invest other than what we generate from sales on that basis i'd say she's full square to blame for where we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 December, 2019 Share Posted 10 December, 2019 she sent to school with nelly so probably knew exactly what sort of character gao was and took her payment straight out the club finances....which is why we have ZERO cash to invest other than what we generate from sales on that basis i'd say she's full square to blame for where we are How do you know they went to the same school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 10 December, 2019 Share Posted 10 December, 2019 How do you know they went to the same school? a reliable source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 10 December, 2019 Share Posted 10 December, 2019 she sent to school with nelly so probably knew exactly what sort of character gao was and took her payment straight out the club finances....which is why we have ZERO cash to invest other than what we generate from sales on that basis i'd say she's full square to blame for where we are How do you know they went to the same school? a reliable source Seems barely plausible and quite a stretch of the imagination to believe that to be honest. Nelly appeared on a clip of a pre-season meeting and it was said she was struggling with speaking English and still learning. Perhaps she speaks German and learnt that as a second language. Or does Kat speak Mandarin so they converse in that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 she sent to school with nelly so probably knew exactly what sort of character gao was and took her payment straight out the club finances....which is why we have ZERO cash to invest other than what we generate from sales on that basis i'd say she's full square to blame for where we are What does “took her payment straight out the club finances” mean? Who took what payment? Sounds unlikely, mush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Cripes. Suppose your mum held a big interest in a Tupperware franchise. She dies. She leaves it to you. What do you do, assuming you guys are not Tupperware freaks? Sell it. Are you to blame? Actually I have nothing against Tupperware at all, so maybe the analogy should have been drawn with some crappy cosmetics company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Cripes. Suppose your mum held a big interest in a Tupperware franchise. She dies. She leaves it to you. What do you do, assuming you guys are not Tupperware freaks? Sell it. Are you to blame? Actually I have nothing against Tupperware at all, so maybe the analogy should have been drawn with some crappy cosmetics company. “I’m selling the club because I’ve taken it as far as I can. Goa will take it on to the next level” She flat out lied and simply took the highest bid she could get her mitts on. And by the way, don’t for a second think she didn’t profit very nicely throughout her reign from loaning the club millions at 5 to 6% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 What does “took her payment straight out the club finances” mean? Who took what payment? Sounds unlikely, mush! Directors loan repayments are tax free and come from the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 “I’m selling the club because I’ve taken it as far as I can. Goa will take it on to the next level” She flat out lied and simply took the highest bid she could get her mitts on. If her heart / purse wasn't in it, then she had taken the club as far as she could. What's dishonest about admitting that? It was her dad's train set, not hers. The second bit, however, may not be honest. Sure its possible that Gao pulled the wall over her eyes, but in truth who sells something and gives a monkeys if the buyer is going to look after it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 If her heart / purse wasn't in it, then she had taken the club as far as she could. What's dishonest about admitting that? It was her dad's train set, not hers. The second bit, however, may not be honest. Sure its possible that Gao pulled the wall over her eyes, but in truth who sells something and gives a monkeys if the buyer is going to look after it? anyone who has ever owned and sold a vintage VW Beetle would disagree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 anyone who has ever owned and sold a vintage VW Beetle would disagree with that statement. Never a beetle Del, but I've bought sold plenty of classic cars. Sure, I hoped that the buyer would love them like I did, but deep down it was about the money. A more relevant analogy though is had one of my daughters inherited those cars, but wasn't sufficiently interested to keep up its maintenance and throwing the required money at it, would they really be expected to wait for "the" buyer who would cherish and throw money at them as I did? The honest answer is no, and thats what this whole debate comes down to - passionate fans unrealistically expecting the female Austrian heiress to have the same passion for our local club as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Directors loan repayments are tax free and come from the company. So his point was that she made a loan which was repaid? Hardly a point worth making. It sounded like he was trying to suggest some sort of bad faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Never a beetle Del, but I've bought sold plenty of classic cars. Sure, I hoped that the buyer would love them like I did, but deep down it was about the money. A more relevant analogy though is had one of my daughters inherited those cars, but wasn't sufficiently interested to keep up its maintenance and throwing the required money at it, would they really be expected to wait for "the" buyer who would cherish and throw money at them as I did? The honest answer is no, and thats what this whole debate comes down to - passionate fans unrealistically expecting the female Austrian heiress to have the same passion for our local club as we do. I once knocked about with a girl (as part of social group, not in the bedroom) who refused to sell her VW Beetle to another girl because she referred to the car as "it" not "he" Strange bunch Beetle drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 “I’m selling the club because I’ve taken it as far as I can. Goa will take it on to the next level” She flat out lied and simply took the highest bid she could get her mitts on. And by the way, don’t for a second think she didn’t profit very nicely throughout her reign from loaning the club millions at 5 to 6% Thing is we really do not know what the truth of it is. She may well have been under the impression that Gao was going to take us forward. Innocent until proven guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Thing is we really do not know what the truth of it is. She may well have been under the impression that Gao was going to take us forward. Innocent until proven guilty?Innocent until proven guilty you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Case closed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Innocent until proven guilty you say? Nothing better to do with your life than to stalk a complete stranger on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Thing is we really do not know what the truth of it is. She may well have been under the impression that Gao was going to take us forward. Innocent until proven guilty? Maybe, but you'd have to assume she did her due diligence over his finances (she was being advised by UBS or similar) so would know that a) the value of Lander was in the process of collapsing even as the negotiations were ongoing, and b) that Gao was having to finance the purchase with high-interest loans. Not sure how she could look at either of those situations and conclude that Gao was in a position to take the club forward in any meaningful sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 11 December, 2019 Share Posted 11 December, 2019 Bingo She absolutely must shoulder a massive portion of blame here. She ain’t no fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 She didn't know he was dodgy? He initially failed the EPL's F&PPT, FFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Nothing better to do with your life than to stalk a complete stranger on the internet?"stalk" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 This constant on-line harassment of Kat, and it's flip side, the raising to God like status of her father Marcus does illustrate a phenomena of the human soul, the simple need for heroes and villains. As far as I can see, once you strip back all the positive PR for Marcus, and the negative mob thinking for Kat, you're left with three basic facts. One a successful business man buys a failing company turns it around. Two he dies. Three, his heirs sell successful company to highest bidder. I see nothing to elevate the former to a Hero status, or the latter to hate figure. Everything else is ill-founded nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Maybe, but you'd have to assume she did her due diligence over his finances (she was being advised by UBS or similar) so would know that a) the value of Lander was in the process of collapsing even as the negotiations were ongoing, and b) that Gao was having to finance the purchase with high-interest loans. Not sure how she could look at either of those situations and conclude that Gao was in a position to take the club forward in any meaningful sense. Yes, you would assume that she carried out due diligence but none of us really know what she based her decision on. If she just wanted to sell up, take the money and bail I don’t understand why she has retained an interest in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Yes, you would assume that she carried out due diligence but none of us really know what she based her decision on. If she just wanted to sell up, take the money and bail I don’t understand why she has retained an interest in the club. Because Goa couldn’t reach her valuation. Anyway, when he eventually sells up his money will be nice and clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Because Goa couldn’t reach her valuation. Anyway, when he eventually sells up his money will be nice and clean You may be right, but if she wanted to bail out completely why not find someone who could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Fatty. A disgusting and juvenile remark. That is not the Saints way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 You may be right, but if she wanted to bail out completely why not find someone who could? Actually SOG, I believe that nothing in the filed docs say that it’s anything other than 100% ownership by Goa. Unless someone can tell me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 We can only assume that there were no other interested parties so GAO it had to be. As for keeping 20% perhaps that was an insurance if Saints were sold on ? What we do know is that we do not know much about Kat’s thinking ,although she apparently shut down other parts of the business empire that were loss making ,so ridding her company of a sporting club that would need continuous investment Was part of a rationalisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Bingo She absolutely must shoulder a massive portion of blame here. She ain’t no fool Thankfully she has broad shoulders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 I feel cheated as I believe had Marcus lived a lot longer we would be an impressive football club and may have even won something. On the other hand if I had inherited a rugby club and was worth a fortune I would have no compunction in selling it to get mymoneyin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 This constant on-line harassment of Kat, and it's flip side, the raising to God like status of her father Marcus does illustrate a phenomena of the human soul, the simple need for heroes and villains. As far as I can see, once you strip back all the positive PR for Marcus, and the negative mob thinking for Kat, you're left with three basic facts. One a successful business man buys a failing company turns it around. Two he dies. Three, his heirs sell successful company to highest bidder. I see nothing to elevate the former to a Hero status, or the latter to hate figure. Everything else is ill-founded nonsense. I don't come on this forum to read pragmatism FFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 This constant on-line harassment of Kat, and it's flip side, the raising to God like status of her father Marcus does illustrate a phenomena of the human soul, the simple need for heroes and villains. As far as I can see, once you strip back all the positive PR for Marcus, and the negative mob thinking for Kat, you're left with three basic facts. One a successful business man buys a failing company turns it around. Two he dies. Three, his heirs sell successful company to highest bidder. I see nothing to elevate the former to a Hero status, or the latter to hate figure. Everything else is ill-founded nonsense.IMO Marcus should have hero status as I truly believe he came to love our club and fans.I always kick myself as we had a room in corporate and he just stood outside in the corridor by himself with a smile on his face as he watched us enjoy. I wish we had invited him in for a drink and chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 12 December, 2019 Share Posted 12 December, 2019 Actually SOG, I believe that nothing in the filed docs say that it’s anything other than 100% ownership by Goa. Unless someone can tell me otherwise. Oh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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